Tell me about the crusades
everything i need to know about the crusaders i learned in 1202
>>922791
they didnt sack it in 1202, and the Greeks deserved what they got tbf
oh look this thread again
>>922791
>b-byzantines dindu nuffin
>Massacre_of_the_Latins.wikiarticle
>>922875
>venetians dindu nuffin
>helped the ottomans into europe
buuuump
First Crusade was an insane success, the rest rather less so. There you go.
>>922875
>Latins didnu nuffin
>I haven't read the background of the massacre article
>>922781
They were not one thing. They were a convergence of many things which then began to absorb many more things over several centuries until new political ideologies and changing relationships between the Church and the major powers of Europe no longer made it a thing.
Then centuries later people with their own agendas took only one of these many things in order to paint the Crusades as that one thing to support their agendas.
>listing a bunch of different campaigns of the same wars to inflate the numbers
>>924137
The latins didn't do anything
Good, single volume book on the crusades? I know nothing about them beyond the DEUS VULT memesters.
>>922791
Maybe if the Greeks had followed through with their promise of 200,000 silver talents and converting to Roman Catholicism rather than setting the crusader's ships on fire and trying to starve them to death it wouldn't have happened. Fucking byzaboos
>>922781
There are a number of formerly Christian people that are now predominantly ISlamic ( Albanians, Bosnians, Avars, probably a largepercentage of Turkish ancestry but how come there aren't very many formerly Islamic cultural groups that are now Christian ? the only thing I can think of are some Spanish ancestry due to the reconquista and maybe some Hungarians
>>924643
Latins had it coming, fact. They cast the die when they wouldn't help the empire.
>>924690
lebanon and some minorities in the levant i think, and mind you most of those were already there before the crusades
>>922791
this desu, crusaders are literal niggers
>only good at rape and pillaging
>gets btfo by sandniggers and smelly poles
>>922781
Would anyone serious accept the UK declaring war on the US today because of the war of independence.
Or China in 50 years declaring war on the UK because of the Opium Wars?
>>924722
Fuck off you perfidious nigger
Subhuman Greeks have deserved every time they got BTFO
>>922871
Get fucked by the truth fucking cuck
>be Byzantium
>even if it was corrupt and in constant decline it held back the Muslims while the Muslims were still superior to Europeans in terms of technology and military strength
>the West cosntantly fucks over Byzantium even when it's supposed to be helping it
>after Byzantium falls, Europe gets fucked by Ottomans
Karma desu.
>>924751
>btfo by sandniggers
Do you know literally anything about the Crusades? Crusaders were obliterating Middle Eastern armies left and right for a long time.
>>924757
China threatens to fuck Japan if they get a standing army for a war that happened more than 50 years ago.
Anyways, the difference is that these conflicts are pretty much settled nowadays whereas back then it was basically incidents in a centuries encompassing invasion plan, which never really ceased to exist.
>>924776
>>even if it was corrupt and in constant decline it held back the Muslims while the Muslims were still superior to Europeans in terms of technology and military strength
Excellent meme byzaboo
>>924788
Bit of a fucking difference between 50 and 250
>>924757
If the United States was still raiding them, and Canada had asked the UK for help after the US annexed British Columbia yes they would
>>924776
>HELD THEM BACK
The Byzantines would have been obliterated by the Ottomans regardless of them being attacked by Venice. And Venice had good fucking reason to attack Constantinople by the way.
>>924784
In reality it was mostly an even fight when it came to win/loss ratios
>>924788
>centuries encompassing invasion plan
>>924635
>burns down a section of Constantinople in a gang war
>>924804
Times were different back then. Not only mentality wise, but also technology and society wise. Political landscapes didn't shift that fast and permanently.
The Muslims were still in posession of the Christian Mekka , which Christians would always have a claim on.
And vice versa the claim of Muslim conquest was only brought to a halt, not diminished, which is obvious if you look at their ongoing raids military campaigns into the heart of Europe until late into the 17th century.
There is no reason for the UK to conquer the US, it is not only absurd but impossible, whereas it was not absurd at all and actually factual that the Muslim conquest would continue sooner or later.
>>922781
>Tell me about the crusades
Why do they wear the mask?
>The Muslims were still in posession of the Christian Mekka , which Christians would always have a claim on.
youre kind of dumb desu senpai, please stop posting on the history board
>>924847
Alright, Ahmed/Sören
>>924837
Who cares
>The First Crusade (1096-1099) spawned horrors the likes of which none of the crusaders had ever experienced. And they were horrors of their own making. Of the massacre in Jerusalem, a contemporary observed, “The knights could hardly bear it, working as executioners and breathing out clouds of hot blood.”
>Particularly during the sieges of Antioch, Ma’arra, and Jerusalem, whose populations were brutally massacred, the First Crusaders themselves believed that they had exceeded all the norms of medieval warfare, and the evidence supports them. Even the most brutal sieges of the day ended in mass enslavement of city populations, not in mass murder.
>The observation is simple enough, but for modern, Western audiences, it inevitably raises a question (one I have gotten several times on these very pages, in fact): What about Muslim atrocities? Weren’t the Muslims just as bad? After all, the Holy Land had once been thoroughly Christianized. What became of those Christians? Surely the Muslim conquests were just as brutal as the crusades?
>The short answer is, “No.” But, let me explain:
>>924857
>The spread of Islam in the seventh and eighth centuries C.E. is one of the most astonishing events in history. What started in 622 C.E. (year 1 of the Muslim calendar) as an obscure desert religion on the Arabian Peninsula, 150 years later had established its rule over 5,000,000 square miles of earth. They termed these conquests “jihad,” which we often translate as “holy war,” though “struggle” would be a more accurate rendering.
>Most of these conquests occurred at the expense of two great empires: the Perisan Empire to the east of the Arabian deserts, and the Byzantine (or Eastern Roman) Empire to the west. Not coincidentally, these two powers had been engaged in a long and brutal series of wars against one another. Jerusalem, the eventual target of the crusade, changed hands twice during these conflicts.
>The importance of the Byzantine-Persian wars in connection with Islam is twofold. First, at the time of the Islamic expansion Byzantium and Persia were hardly at the height of their powers. Their conquest proved much easier than otherwise would have been the case. Second, given the incredible instability that these two great empires had generated, their subjects had very little reason to be loyal to them. Islam might even bring to these lands greater stability—which, in fact, it did.
>A similar observation might be made about Muslim expansion into Visigothic Spain, plagued by civil wars in the decades preceding the advent of Islam in 711 C.E.
>What became of all the Christians in the conquered territories? For the most part, they stayed put. The Muslims established themselves as governmental leaders, but did not try to forcibly convert their subjects, particularly the Christians and Jews who, in Muslim eyes, had received elements of the same monotheistic revelation that had inspired their faith.
>>924860
>Christians and Jews also paid a public head tax from which Muslims were exempt. Thus from a purely mercenary perspective, Muslim rulers had an actual disincentive to try to convert them—let alone kill them. Christians and Jews, the dhimmi as they were known, provided valuable revenue. Conversion to Islam eventually did occur, but it was a gradual process, not as rapid as the growth of Islamic government.
>In other words, the spread of Islam was a very different affair from the crusades. The crusaders aimed to recapture a sacred place from a religion that they barely understood and that they viewed as fundamentally evil. Muslims built an empire.
>That is what made the crusaders and their scorched-earth piety so shocking. Here were Christian armies who heedlessly slaughtered entire populations, not in spite of their religion but because of it. After the First Crusade ended, and once the Christians began trying to build settlements in the Middle East, their attitudes necessarily changed. But the crusade itself had introduced into the region a sort of total religious warfare that had not been seen since Old Testament days.
>And the Muslims did not forget. In 1187, the Muslim general Saladin seriously considered refusing an offer of surrender from Jerusalem. The reason? He wished to apply the same rough injustice to the Christians there that they had meted out to Islam in 1099. He showed mercy only after the Franks threatened to massacre all of their prisoners and to destroy the city’s Islamic holy sites.
>The earliest stories of Muslim atrocities committed against Christians, comparable to the First Crusade, in fact, did not occur until the end of the thirteenth century. At that time, the Mamluks (a warrior slave class who became rulers of Egypt) drove the crusaders out of the Middle East, destroying their world one city at a time.
>Contemporary descriptions of the 1291 fall of Acre (“Akko” in modern Israel) easily rival any of the horrors of the First Crusade. The Mamelukes made grisly displays of prisoners’ severed heads. They won offers of surrender from thousands of the besieged and then reneged on their promises—beheading the men and enslaving the women and children. Eventually they destroyed the city altogether, its ruins still being dug out today from beneath the Bedouin city that grew up its place. With an unrelenting and merciless savagery, driven by a fanatical sense of religious mission, the Mamluks sought to purge the Holy Land of all Christians.
tl;dr: crusaders were literally niggers
>>924867
Shut the fuck up faggot
None of that was bad
>>924884
>XD
>>922781
Acts of piracy and slaughter carried out by a barbaric, miserable and savage horde, first to serve the appeals of a whiner emperor, and then to meet their primal instincts. All sponsored by opportunists (as the Venetians, the Pisans and the Genoese) or cowards (like the Romans).
They looted everything they found along the way, killed everything that moved, and were unable to achieve any of their goals.
Except, and they succeeded with admirable mastery, the destruction and ruin of the Roman Empire.
>>924896
Kill yourself
>>924897
>>Get fucked by the truth fucking cuck
lmao
>>924867
source?
>>924902
>I-It's bad to kill subhumans ;_;
>>>/rebbit/
A treacherous, greedy catholic Patrician and Holy Roman Elector was teaching a class on Pope Innocent III, a known heretic.
”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship the Pope and accept that Catholicism is the one and only faith founded by Jesus Christ, even greater than Nestorianism!”
At this moment, a brave, Greek, Varangian soldier who had killed over 1500 Turks and understood the legitimacy of the Eastern Roman Empire and fully supported all its economic, social and military reforms stood up and held up a map of the Holy Land
"Who should own this land, Brutus?"
The arrogant Venetian smirked quite Jewishly and smugly replied “The crusaders, you stupid heretic”
”Wrong. Its been over 2000 years since Alexander the Great conquered it. If it was not owned by Arabs, and Catholics, as you say, should own the land... then the crusaders should have conquered Jerusalem by now."
The Patrician was visibly shaken, and dropped his ducats and copy of the Roman Misal. He stormed out of the room crying those ironic catholic tears. The same tears catholics cry for “the Crusaders” (who today live in such luxury that most bathe daily). There is no doubt that at this point our Patrician, Enrico Dandolo, wished he had been Orthodox and supported the Komnenoi struggle against the Turks. He wished so much that he had the Imperial Sword to kill himself from embarrassment, but he himself had pawned it off to the Capetians!
The students applauded and all applied for Roman citizenship that day and accepted Manuel Komnenos as their Basileus. A double-headed eagle named “Byzantium” flew into the room and perched atop the Hagia Sophia and shed a tear on the chalk board. Epitaph of Seikilos was sung several times, and Constantine the Great himself showed up and converted all Catholics to Orthodoxy.
>>924942
>varangian
>greek
A Greek Orthodox homosexual Byzantine Emperor and violent usurper was teaching a class on Manuel Komnenos, known heretic.
”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Manuel Komnenos and accept that he was the most majestic Roman Emperor the world has ever known, even greater than Constantine the Great!”
At this moment, a brave, chivalrous Catholic Frankish Knight who had vanquished 1500 Muslims on a Crusade and understood the necessity of war and fully supported all military decision made by the Pope stood up and held up a fresh Septuagint.
”Who compiled this Bible, pinhead?”
The treacherous Emperor smirked quite Jewishly and smugly replied “The Roman scribes, you stupid barbarian”
”Wrong. It’s been 1,000 years since the Roman Empire fell. If it is 1,400 years old and Greece, as you say, is the home of the Romans, then why don't you possess the Eternal City of Rome itself?”
The Emperor was visibly shaken, and dropped his gaudy icon and copy of Plutarch's Parallel Lives. He stormed out of the room crying those Greek crocodile tears. The same tears Greeks cry for the “disgraced Romans” when they jealously try to claw justly earned land from the deserving Crusaders. There is no doubt that at this point our Emperor wished he had more strictly enforced the East-West Union as agreed upon at the Council of Florence. He wished so much that he had the Imperial Sword to kill himself from embarrassment, but he himself had pawned it off to the Venetians!
The students applauded and all joined the Holy Roman Empire that day and accepted Pope Eugene IV as Christ's Vicar on Earth. A double-headed eagle named “Church and State” flew into the room and perched atop the Keys and shed a tear on the chalk. Dies Irae was sung several times, and God himself showed up and enacted a church tithe across the country to renovate St. Peter's Basilica.
The Emperor lost Constantinople and was killed beneath its walls the next day.
>>924839
>Times were different back then
Not really. We only think that because our sources span decades and centuries, but political realities did change fast - not always on a week by week basis like today but certainly within months and not several centuries.
>>924751
>byzaboos insulting Latins for being btfo by invading muslims
Only on /his/, folks
>>924841
Nobody cared who i was till i put the mask on
>>924853
Clearly the Greeks did.
>>924643
>their promise of 200,000 silver talents
The only one who promised that was the usurper helped by the Franks who was hated by the Byzantines.
>>922882
>crusaders fuck up Byzantines up so badly they are utterly incapable of defending themselves against the turkroaches TWO HUNDRED YEARS later
Face it, Byzantines were shit and we're always shit.
>>924857
>>924860
>>924863
What Bullshit Source are you using for all of this?
The first crusade, while many of the soliders were pretty unruly and undisciplined, was called because of Muslim incursions into Byzantine land, the origin of the crusade was literally in defense of christain lands
also
>muh merciful Saladin
Saladin on let some of the Christains leave, the rest were put into slavery because they could not pay the ridiculous ransom that he demanded.
In fact the Crusades were a net positive for the world because it opened up trade between east and west that had not been present for hundreds of years
>>922781
Greeks ruined it for everyone like always
>>924776
>West cosntantly fucks over Byzantium even when it's supposed to be helping it
but literally the opposite happened
>crusaders ask for passage through
>greeks start a fucking war with them
>cry when they lose
>>924909
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jay-rubenstein/crusade-vs-jihad-was-one-_b_1146871.html
>jay rubenstein
>rubenstein
>stein
HUFFINGTON POST
