Why did the Russians replace a neglecting father (The czar) with an abusive one (Stalin)? Because of the West? But again, communism is a Western ideology.
And why is this pattern repeating itself? They either go full dictatorship or full chaos with nothing in between. They either embrace the West and even glorify it or hate it and isolate themselves. They either submissively bear the yoke of the government with extreme humility and only when they are literally starving they rebel with extreme fury and violence.
What are the causes of this? Is it paternalism? Is something in the Russian DNA making them more gullible and vulnerable to exploitation? The effects of thousand years of autocracy? Or is it the opposite: Extreme rebelliousness which can only be put down with force.
As long as these questions aren't answered there won't be peace. A cold war or a cold peace at best.
The British and Germans funded a revolution to get their old enemy, the Russian Monarchy, out of the picture. See: The Great Game. Imagine what Britain could do without Russia fucking around.
Then Hitler came along and the US needed to check German expansion so they propped up the Soviet Union. Dumb Russians keep Germany occupied on the East (The work to feed, supply, arm, and equip the Soviet Union profited US industries anyways), while America and Friends whack at them from the west.
After WWII, the Soviet Union had received enough aid and gobbled up enough territory that it could more or less stand on it's own two feet, and by then it was too late for anyone in Europe to stop them.
Russians had very little to do with it. Foreign funding and geopolitics did.
>>1103560
Wall Street funded the Bolsheviks.
>>1103580
They lost everything. In the 50s and 60s socialism was extremely popular, Russia had nukes and a ton of allies including China. If they played their cards right, they could be a prosperous superpower.
De-stalinization was one mistake. Not providing consumer goods another. It's ridiculous and hypocritical. "Stalin was a dick for being so harsh, but you still can't have toilet paper." It doensn't make any sense.
>>1103560
"the Russians" didn't do anything, a very select group of Russians did. Most people had nothing to do with the revolution and civil war, and of those that did only a small fraction had any control in choosing the new leader.
This thread is started by a spooked /pol/ memester and is bound to attract more of the same.
>the Russians
I like it how people always look for some weird ethnic or cultural reason as to why certain things happened in history. Not only is there little to no evidence to support it, but it's also plain lazy and misleading.
This simplistic analyses of world history, politics and power is such an example of the dumbing down of the masses.
>>1103580
This would make sense in a world where Britain was not allied with the tsar against Germany.
Or the fact that the British supported the whites in the civil war.
>>1103560
Those were jews m8.
>>1103560
>Why did the Russians replace a neglecting father (The czar)
scorched earth policy in western russia via ww1 is one reason
>>1104142
You mean the Russians are spooked. This country had too many radical transitions and breaks. No wonder nobody trusts anything and especially not a bright future. Russia went from the most reactionary to the most revolutionary country and back again.
Just imagine this: one moment you are a peasant, then the leader of your country gets fucking assassinated by conspirators but no big deal - right? Most czars were kind of shitty and corrupt. But this one was stupid too and sent wave after wave of people without guns in the German meat grinder. But instead of just becoming a republic, this time a hyper-violent, hyper-fanatical, utopian sect which wants to usurp or at least stir up the entire world with the slogan: Death to tradition, family, monarchy, religion, rich people etc... gets to power and has to conquer all of Russia... again, in a bloody civil war. Then it wants to use Russia as fuel to ignite the world revolution and make far more enemies than friends.
Several famines later, it starts a gigantic industrialization project done mostly with slave labor. And they start to network with other sect members across the globe and everyone who is against the utopian project is exterminated.
And the worst part of all? Soon millions of dudes with guns and tanks from one of the most civilized and accomplished nations on earth called Germany gets so scared of your countries bullshit that they recede to ancient times and start exterminating you. Literally just send millions of dudes with guns in your country and start killing every male they see without asking any questions.
But now they're defeated and Stalin is also dead, right? Time for peace. Well too bad, the threat of nuclear extermination hovers above your head and you are kind of forced to remain totalitarian.
Things didn't get better in the 90s and are still kind of bad. Add to that the overall poverty and corruption and you'll realize why Russia was and is hell on earth.
>>1104646
Contrast that with the relatively stable period of the US where all generations had the same or similar values and the worst the country had was the Red scarce, and like 200k dead in both world wars. Russia was always struggling with pure survival and was on the brink to death several times. I guess in and after WW1, during 40s and 90s Russia was the closest to total disintegration.
It's like living in Russia is living in a fucking experiment laboratory or a sect with suicidal and self-destructive members.
Every human wants just happiness, comfort, stability etc... right? Nobody wants to be a slave. Not Russia, Russia will always struggle to grasp what it means being fully human, basically because it's rulers never allowed their suspects any humanity.
>>1103560
>the czar
>neglecting father
Put aside the romanticism for Nicholas II and realize that Imperial Russia was one of the most brutal monarchies to have ever existed.
In a way it's too early to comment on this, Russia spent centuries under an Absolute Monarchy, then nearly a century under a Communist Dictatorship, the "democracy" of the Yeltsin era (bear in mind that the Communist party actually won that election and Yeltsin had protesters gunned down in the streets) was enough to ensure the rise of Putin. Putin is a sort of modern autocrat but his rise to power wasn't entirely against the will of the people.
Maybe post-Putin we'll see a change, iirc the CPRF is gaining popularity among young voters.
>>1104692
>tfw this guy will gain power to stop Commies from gaining power
>>1103560
>he simplifies revolutionary politics down to daddy issues
>>1104692
There is no 'post-Putin'. He will rule until he dies, and by then he will have an equally terrifying ideological clone prepared to succeed himself.
>>1104692
I don't idolize Nicholas but "one of the most brutal monarchies", fucking really? There are places in Africa and Asia that kept slavery around until mid 1950s. Not just serfdom, slavery. Russia was a downright progressive paradise compared to places like Tibet or Yemen.
>>1104724
Yes, really. War, famine, serfdom, russification, a ruling class that regarded (and treated) the people as less than human. One thing consistent in the history of Imperial Russia is that the peasantry, that is, the majority of the people, always suffered badly even in times of relative peace&stability.
>>1104695
Well it all comes down to that if you understand human psychology.
Why the hell do you think Jews were such a popular scapegoat? They were considered to be stingy, greedy, pretending to be morally superior, cold, rational, diabolical, oppressive etc... the ultimate evil father. While the nation was considered to be the pure, innocent and saintly mother figure which was violated by the demonic Jew. Or capitalist if you are not a racist.
It might surprise you but fathers used to beat the crap out of their children at that time and almost everyone had father issues.
>>1104740
So you're saying that Russian empire was on par with places like Tibet and Zanzibar?
>serfdom
Abolished in the 19th century, just 13 years after Austria and in the same century as Prussia and Ottoman empire, before the US abolished slavery (mind you, chattel slavery was actuall worse than serfdom).
>>1104740
Add to that the soul crushing fact that Russians were oppressed by their own countrymen as opposed to negros in the US. At least black people had some kind of racial identity and could identify who is evil. In imperial Russia your superior could beat the crap out of you and you would probably not even question it, even more perversely regard it as a sign of love. Of course your superior would have superiors who would beat the crap out of him and you would beat your wive and kids. Only the czar gets to be holy and pure and nobody can beat him and this is why everyone loves him.
No wonder such an evil system gave rise to an even more evil system called communism which spawned an evil more system called nazism. What spawned this system? Probably the Mongols.
>>1104745
I've read some despicably stupid shit on /his/ but you've just taken it to a new level.
>>1104771
With spawned I mean heavily influenced Nazism. It didn't spawn it per se. It was more like: "Let's do what those guys over there are doing and exchange "class" for "race" and instead of fighting for the oppressed we fight for the right of the oppressor to be oppressive, superior and master race."
>>1104776
Dude just fucking analyze Hitler and Stalin and all other authoritarian dicks. Most of them had their shit pushed in by their fathers. Stalin was once beaten so badly that he pissed blood for days. Hitler was literally unconscious after a beating for days.
If you have common sense and aren't a fucking moron it makes sense that these guys were simply compensating with their domination bullshit.
>>1104794
>dude history is daddy problems lmao
>>1104764
Did I say that? Just because something awful wasn't as awful as something else doesn't mean it wasn't awful. I'm not familiar with the demographics of Tibet or Zanzibar but being far smaller countries I'd venture that while perhaps more oppressive the sheer scale of oppression in Russia due to population size also warrants a mention.
What exactly is your point here anyway? You probably aren't saying that Imperial Russia wasn't a brutal regime, that would be denial of the facts.
Are we really whitewashing tsarist Russia now?
>>1104797
I didn't say all of history idiot. Just that particular period, because it was then that the nucleus family and religion were really targeted by politics.
>psychology doesn't matter at all. history wasn't shaped by humans with their own psyches and individual histories, it was shaped by mysterious forces beyond our understanding.
>>1104805
Maybe the answer lies in between. Who really knows? The communists probably demonized the shit out of tsarist Russia.
It couldn't have been that bad if Stalin escaped like 5 times from his Siberian prison and if so many political, revolutionary and anarchistic parties were allowed to thrive.
>>1103741
Nationalisation of non-governmental enterprises (~6% of total and ~1/3 of consumer economy of USSR) was part of destalinization and one of the main reasons for destalinisation.
Also, toilet paper was a meme, anon. Don't use it.
>>1104831
> It couldn't have been that bad
Faulty logic here.
Bolsheviks were survivors, anon. If they wouldn't have made it, some else would've.
> if Stalin escaped like 5 times from his Siberian prison
Not prison, exile. And that was 2 times only, IIRC. He also organized uprisings of incarcerated in actual prisons, so you might be confusing things there.
>>1103560
>Why did the Russians replace a neglecting father (The czar) with an abusive one (Stalin)?
He literally got them involved in the most destructive war the Russian people witnessed at that point since the Mongol invasions and this was after he lost the pacific and baltic fleets in a humiliating defeat to Japan in the far east.
>And why is this pattern repeating itself? They either go full dictatorship or full chaos with nothing in between. They either embrace the West and even glorify it or hate it and isolate themselves. They either submissively bear the yoke of the government with extreme humility and only when they are literally starving they rebel with extreme fury and violence.
Ive heard argument that this mindset had its origin in Russian collaboration with the Mongols when they functioned as tax collectors. Aside from extending their power it created a precedent of them being subservient and their leaders indifferent to popular support.
>>1105066
> Ive heard argument
Goebbels is not /his/ approved.
>>1105083
That argument had been going on for centuries before the Nazis
>>1103560
The jews made it sound like a good idea with plenty for everyone
>>1105090
Goebbels historical research is also not /his/ approved.
>>1104794
You are letting them off too easy. This implies that the problem was not that Stalinism was a horrific system, or that national socialism was a manically deranged reaction to modernity, but just that the leaders had a pathology.
No! The problem with Stalinism was not some hidden sickness of its perpetrators, but the perversity of the system itself. Modern investigation bears this out (Stalin biography of Kotkin): it was not that the Bolsheviks just used socialism to justify their will to power stemming from some freudian origin. They truly believed in socialism! The horrific things they did, they did out of true belief.
That is what makes Stalin peculiar: the combination of true belief, and a willingness to go all the way in the face of tremendous human suffering. With the Nazi's, they inflicted the suffering on those they considered nonhuman, but under Stalin you get the willingness to inflict suffering on people recognized as fully human, all for the abstract utopian cause.
>>1105119
Actually, that particular Canard was started by the Pan-Slavs. Oops.
>>1105124
Let me guess: they were Goebbels-sponsored?
>>1105146
Yes, anon. Goebbels went back in his time machine to inspire democratic republicanism among Czechs and Russians.
>>1105123
> Kotkin
>>1105155
> Czechs
> Mongol tax collectors
I don't even care anymore.
>>1105160
You never cared. Fuck off and read a book.
>>1104776
>t. Stormfront subscriber
>>1105083
Nothing to do with Goebbels. Muscovites really were tax collectors for the Mongols and they modeled Russia after Mongols, an imperialistic, tyrannical despotic shithole.
If it was Novgorod who united Russia, it might've been a developed country now.
>>1106827
You are pure undiluted retard.
And don't whine about ad hominem. This is an objective description of your intellectual capability.
>>1103560
They wanted Lenin, they got Stalin.
>>1103560
>neglecting father
oh fuck off at this point
>>1103560
Nothing with DNA. Much like China, Russia war an authoritarian state before and after the introduction of socialism. Politicians who opposed the old order food themselves reverting to the same tactics, because methods for controlling uncooperative peoples tend to be useful regardless of economic arrangement.
I'd argue that both the USSR and the PROC were simply the old empires modeled to be less explicitly feudal.
>>1105123
I think humans just fucking enjoy killing and torturing "enemies" while inside a group. Everything else is only an invention for this end. Islam, communism, Nazism... it really doesn't fucking matter. Sure, humans can self-hypnotize themselves to believe this bullshit, but they only do that in order to do what they enjoy the most: inflicting suffering on others and get rewarded and even praised for it.
They weren't fighting for an utopia. They ALREADY lived in an utopia. An utopia of violence, genocides, bloodlust, sadism, masochism, rapes, pluders etc...
Civilization is only a frace anon. Just scratch it a little, tiny bit and you'll realize that all humans are just fucking beasts, dominated by their lower instincts.
The sad thing is when smart people who should know it better, fuel and support this shit. There is no doubt that the Nazis and Bolsheviks had genius-level IQs.
This world corrupts everyone. If you are stupid you'll enjoy dieing and killing first hand. If you are smart, you'll become one of the "leaders" an enjoy how other do it. You even provide them with an ideology and excueses to maximize the onslaught.
>>1106892
It's only a meme that Lenin was good and Stalin was evil. By todays standards both were really, really fucking evil and Stalin was only a tiny bit more evil.
Lenin said something like: "We'll drag along 90% of Russias population... and the rest, we've got nothing to say to them. They must be exterminated."
Don't forget just how fucking violent the Bolsheviks were. Most people think they were freedom fighters like Martin Luther King or something, but they were an extremely fanatical and dangerous sect ready to torture everyone and sacrifice everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror#Atrocities
By and large Russia's most uncanny ability is holding mutually exclusive ideas at the same time while being utterly oblivious to the glaring contradiction. Laments the destruction of Lenin monuments in Ukraine while insisting that the Ukrainian nation and its language were insidious inventions by Lenin, the bastard who murdered the Tsar and his family. He can never shut up about how Russia’s grandfathers fought and singlehandedly won the Second World War, yet he harbors a soft spot for Nazi Germany and fascism out of his unflagging admiration for strong, authoritarian leaders. To the vatnik, the only bad side of Nazi Germany and fascism in general is that they attacked the Soviet Union, beyond that the vatnik has no qualms about racism, anti-Semitism, or authoritarianism. He insists that anyone living in Russia should speak Russian, but he squeals with bristling anger at the idea of Russians living in former Soviet republics being required to learn the local language. He says that Ukrainians and Russians are “brother peoples” and yet despises the “invented” Ukrainian language and any cultural distinction between the two.
1/2
>>1107199
What the vatnik fears most of all is freedom and the responsibility that goes along with it. His idea of stability requires Russia to be governed by a “strong hand.” On a certain level he resents that strong hand, but in the absence of any will to do anything about this, he settles for Schadenfreude at others’ expense, be they younger Russians who think differently, national minorities, or countries on Russia’s periphery. As he is utterly dominated by the state and its elite, he revels in the dominance over these groups and the misery it produces. He cannot possibly imagine a powerful, prosperous Russia based on strict rule of law, democratic institutions, and a wise policy of using state resources to benefit the people at large and spur on private innovation. For the vatnik, Russia can only be great by either dominating other countries, or by instilling fear in them. This is why the vatnik is almost orgasmic at the thought of Americans or Europeans living in fear of nuclear war with Russia.
2/2
>>1107199
>>1107206
The answer is simply Russian nihilism. Nobody of us really gives a fuck either way. We hate Russia, we love Russia. We hate the West, we admire the West. The only time we really gave a little fuck was when we were faced with physical extermination by the hands of the Germans. We would have died either way, might as well beat the Germans, because as much as we hate Russia, when there is no Russia we can't indulge in our self-destructive tendencies or terrorize others. But even if Russia would have died or will die today, it's still cool.
Deprived of any humanity or instincts, we are simply robots or shadows, pure spirit, barely existing, lurking and waiting... not enjoying anything, mildly interested in the world and only when the world annoys us we bother to activate our brains and spit out some scary, edgy, antichristian ideology to keep the world at bay. If you punch us, we punch you twice. If you take our land, we retake it and take a little bit more. That is how Russia grew to the gigantic size. Not because we liked conquering stuff... but because we liked that we got to do what other nations loved, even though we don't enjoy it.
We only want to indulge in non-existence without work, relationships, responsibility or worries, but without actually stopping to exist physically. It's not that hard to understand.
>>1103741
>De-stalinization was one mistake.
This. Stalin may have been ruthless, but when Russkies did as he pleased, he was an awesome guy. Reading right now through Rokossovsky's memories. Stalin even gave the military freedom to fuck the Germans up as they please.
However, I have always thought that Stalin's intention all along was that the Germans advanced deep into Russian territory.
>>1106870
>buttblasted Muscovite shitter
>>1103560
>Tsar was "neglecting"
Holy shit, revisionists
>>1107659
To be clear "neglecting" instead of "abusive". If anything it's the USSR that was neglecting
>>1104785
Communism wasn't a Russian invention. Marx was born in Prussia, and thrust into a bourgeois ethos from birth. He never directly experienced the brutality of Russia.
>>1105123
But Stalin was a legit paranoid psycopath. Maybe he had some sympathy for underdogs, at some point, but he was a raging asshole even to his kids.
>>1107151
>I think
Ohnohesgonnadoit.jpeg
>Bullshits and makes a laundry list of incorrect assertions mixed in with personal opinion about ideologies and how they affect human behavior historically along with their underlying motives
Nice post anon.
>anti-"Stalinists"
>after the archives
>after cold war numbers and prop are blown out
>after how shitty every post-soviet capitalist country is
>>1107741
But they recycled his ideology. If it wasn't for Russia nobody would have given a shit about Marx and probably even forgotten him.
They literally scanned the libraries for the edgiest, most explosive ideology they could find and found Marx. Otherwise The Capital would have remained a dust collector.
>>1107761
I guess 90% of all humans in the past few thousand years were severely traumatized. We don't even know how things would have turned out if every generation was "healthy" and not psychopathic.
Today it's maybe only 50% but we are still a long way away from a healthy humanity.
