>we must imagine Sisyphus to be happy
Whoever said that shit never worked manual labour. If it was true Mexicans should be the happiest people on earth.
Because Mexicans doing labour do it trying to reach a goal that fulfills their lives, while Sisyphus is conscious of the meaningless of his life.
>>908335
How is being conscious of the meaningless of your life supposed to make you happy?
I dont think you understood the book, at all
Actually you didnt even read it, did you anon?
>>908377
Not that anon, but meaning (or lack thereof) and happiness are not synonymous, or mutually exclusive.
>>908201
Mexicans are pretty happy senpai
>>908382
You never worked manual labour, did you anon? All this shit is intellectual wankery.
>>908394
Autism?
>i'm a total layman on the subject
>well, here is my opinion anyway
/his/
>>908399
>I've read a few books about existentialism, here's my opinion why sisyphus must be imagined happy despite being tortured for eternity
humanities
>>908406
>>>/wiki/
>In the essay, Camus introduces his philosophy of the absurd: man's futile search for meaning, unity, and clarity in the face of an unintelligible world devoid of God and eternal truths or values. Does the realization of the absurd require suicide? Camus answers: "No. It requires revolt." He then outlines several approaches to the absurd life. The final chapter compares the absurdity of man's life with the situation of Sisyphus, a figure of Greek mythology who was condemned to repeat forever the same meaningless task of pushing a boulder up a mountain, only to see it roll down again. The essay concludes, "The struggle itself [...] is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
>>908411
Go to a builder and explain this to the guy.
>>908425
I don't want to ruin your thread, but I refurbish homes to resell them and I do all the work, painting,plumbering , bricklaying,etc,etc.
I quit my white collar job to do this full time, I just play classical in the backroung and work all day non stop. Why? Because I immolate myself building that house, and then I sell it to start a new one, I never get to enjoy the house, but the work itself gives me satisfaction, It's kind of a crucifixion.
>>908560
Would you do it if didn't have to earn a living?
>>908644
Actually I just pile up the money in a bag. I don't spend money in general,I have a self sufficient house so, beyond taxes I don't have any expenses.I do the work because being alone working gives me peace.So, to clarify, yes, It's a work I enjoy doing.
>but the work itself gives me satisfaction, It's kind of a crucifixion.
Interesting to use the term crucifixion so close to Easter. I would guess that it is not a crucifixion of the entire self, but a crucifixion a portion of the self that leads to that satisfaction. Is a crucifixion the discontent in oneself or rather of some factor that leads to that discontent. So it would be with Sisyphus. In order to find contentment or happiness, only an aspect what is inside of him could be crucified.
I would further argue that in order to achieve that happiness through manual labor, something must be created. One easily identifiable component of this is that we can see tangible results often times after physical labor. In the case of Mexican workers, if a person feels as if they are building toward something greater they will also experience that satisfaction daily, and weekly, monthly, yearly. Sisyphus could experience it if he was aware I thought he was building some internal component of his psyche through his repeated rolling of the rock.
>>908656
Fair enough. Do you think you could learn to enjoy pushing a rock, maybe just to piss off fate?
>>908398
Pretty much.
>>908659
Not him but I enjoy manual labor when I know it will be eventually over and it being some sort of purification. I mean the shittier the work the more you enjoy stuff more when you probably wouldn't otherwise.
>>908662
I think I have a misconception about sisyphus, I thought he HAD to push the rock BECAUSE it was his fate, not because he was rebelling against it. If I had to push the rock because it was my fate, I wouldn't do it. So, a manual laborer who is forced to do it obviously doesn't like it.
>>908673
But maybe that's exactly it, you pushing a rock up a hill is somewhat rebelling against fate because people are determined to not want to do what is inherently unpleasurable.
>>908659
Are you saying that work itself gives you more satisfaction than the result? interesting.
Also I would like to add that when I do hard physical work I feel like the wrong things I did in my past are somehow remediated, is it just me?
>>908673
I most likely didn't get it completly either, no worries. As far as I understood Sisyphus was punished by the gods for his hubris, but I don't know if he was self aware or pushed to do it otherwise. Wich would be ironic kinda ironic, like there being a guy who is in charge of forcing Sisyphus to do his work forever.
What about the rock? I always thought the rock was life, and that it's Sisyphus only friend,enemy and companion, and whatever he feels towards the rock doesnt change the fact that they are trapped together for all eternity (if we believe death cannot be experienced)
>>908673
If he keeps pushing the rock then he never loses, it's eternal rebellion
>>908673
>>908673
>So, a manual laborer who is forced to do it obviously doesn't like it.
I suppose that's the point. Most manual laborers are forced to do it economically, or rather because of social pressure and there being a need to justify their own existence to society. I don't it's an accident that manual labourers urge their kids to do well in school.
I feel doing a shitty job week after week, as a result of fucking up in some way, is comparable to what happened to Sisyphus.
I've always thought it was a nature/nurture thing.
That even if you are born into something you are going to lose anyway(death), and have been dealt a hand from the beginning(genes, environment), you might as well laugh in the face of it, doing shit that will give you something, whether it be money, fame or whatever you want.
>>908716
What is he supposed to lose if he stops pushing it? Sounds corny, but his family is long dead. Only thing that could happen is that he will be tortured even worse.
>>908725
You can't defy a God, just look at Prometheus.
>>908721
Man, if life really was that bad the most productive form of rebellion would be suicide. Laughing about it just seems like PTSD.
So life of Sisyphus wouldn't be that bad if there was a bar up the hill and he only had to work from 8 to 5.
>>908725
You're taking it a bit too literally
Try to enjoy not giving up
'It may be thought that suicide follows revolt – but wrongly. … [R]evolt gives value to life. … To a man devoid of blinders, there is no finer sight than that of the intelligence at grips with a reality that transcends it’
>>908720
>I suppose that's the point. Most manual laborers are forced to do it economically, or rather because of social pressure and there being a need to justify their own existence to society. I don't it's an accident that manual labourers urge their kids to do well in school.
I just realized I quit education and a well paid white collar job to do manual labor, topkek. My world is upside down.
>>908735
>So life of Sisyphus wouldn't be that bad if there was a bar up the hill and he only had to work from 8 to 5.
It's not how much hours do you work or how hard it is,It's the crushing realization that you are a disposable slave who does a tremendous amount of work for a meaningless cause.
>>908739
You came full circle apparenly.
>>908746
how many*
Oh english, when will you be my bitch and not the other way around?
>>908746
>It's the crushing realization that you are a disposable slave who does a tremendous amount of work for a meaningless cause.
Not him, but then you aren't pulling yourself away from it enough.
It's possible to do meaningless work, and still lead a meaningful life. You can spend the money you make on shit that makes you happy for example. Travel, see the world, fuck bitches on all continents, go skydiving etc.
>>908760
It's possible to do meaningless work, and still lead a meaningful life. You can spend the money you make on shit that makes you happy for example. Travel, see the world, fuck bitches on all continents, go skydiving etc.
Not from a blue collar job
I don't know if I can contribute here, but I'll try. I worked as a laborer in civil construction for a while in Florida.
I found it to be a very rewarding experience. I thought the whole time about Crime and Punishment and Raskolnikov's time in jail. I'm not very familiar with Camus, but I will say that there is something to hard manual labor that feels right. I was often sore and in pain, but I felt cleansed and active and as if I was doing what I was meant to do. I don't know how to describe it exactly.
>>908760
I still believe there's a difference between meaninglessness and physical suffering. Lao Tse was supposed to do a somewhat meaningless job of counting tree trunks but he could do it while casually walking through the forrest. I would even go so far and claim many don't really look for any meaning in their work in the first place but want it to be easy. It having a strong meaning probably means you having to take responsibility. Which can be a burden as well.
>>908772
Sounds like purification. Like having earned your keep for another day. Maybe it's a hard wired social thing.
>>908760
Yes, with the 200$ I have left after paying my bills and my bottom shelf food, I can live like a king and enjoy my time off. Well, I mean on the days I don't have to work, because I'm exhausted on every weekday. And on Saturday I just do nothing to recover somewhat. I really should be happy with this life.
>>908767
>Not from a blue collar job
Depends which country you're from.
>>908774
> I would even go so far and claim many don't really look for any meaning in their work in the first place but want it to be easy. It having a strong meaning probably means you having to take responsibility. Which can be a burden as well.
Exactly, which was part of why I said what I said. Many people, or maybe even most, don't really care what they do for a living, as long as they get payed enough to do shit they like to do.
>>908786
No, it doesn't sound like you're happy at all, but you don't have to live that life if you don't want to.
>>908789
Oh, but I do, there is no alternative. I'm not qualified for anything else, and I don't make enough money to afford an education.
>>908793
There is always a way out. The question is if you would be willing to take it if the possibility even came, but your fatalism makes me think that you wouldn't.
>>908779
Maybe in a sense. I feel like part of it is that it is natural and right for humans to work, physically. Our bodies seem to be geared towards it.
>>908797
Empty talk. In real life chances and possibilities don't just present themselves. If you're stuck in an exhausting dead end low pay job you're fucked unless someone bails you out or you die.
Work shall set you free?
>>908799
The problem with most physical jobs today is that they are automaton work that is deeply unsatisfying and damages your body by forcing you to repeat awkward movements over and over. The guy building houses wouldn't be happy if he stood on an assembly line building 1,000 worthless plastic toys a day.
>>908800
It doesn't get easier to get out of it with age. Let me tell you that.
>>908806
You mean like not having a relationship with what you're producing or not seeing the results of your work?
>>908800
I agree, but you just said that after paying all your bills and shit, you had 200 dollars left.
What do you use that 200 dollars for?
You could be saving it for a long time, until it's no longer just 200 dollars, but a lump of money that could bail you out of the situation you're in.
But I think that you are like most people, and you probably buy some leisurely shit for those 200 dollars, like alcohol, or video games, or something else that you enjoy.
So, no, it's not empty talk.
>>908799
Which is why physical laborers tend to develop persistent injuries and deformities over time. We were built to labor, right.
>not realizing that while the Gods throw parties and drink their wine and fuck each other Sisyphus is working in silence
>not knowing that at midnight Zeus is having a threesome with two Godesses and Sisyphus is meditating on the rock
>when dawn comes, Zeus is calmly sleeping as he has all in life and lives like he's the king of the universe. Sisyphus on the other hand,jumps into the ground and kicks the rock down the hill with all his strength.
>proceeds to scream as he lives life to the fullest by keeping his feet on the ground
>not seeing that Sisyphus is building the strenght to ascend
>>908810
>You could be saving it for a long time, until it's no longer just 200 dollars, but a lump of money that could bail you out of the situation you're in.
Yeah, it would take about ten years to save up enough for a college degree, which I would then finish in my mid 40s. Anyway, I spend that money on clothes, drugs, various items you occasionally need, car repairs, that kind of stuff.
>>908819
Right, so you have a way out, but you aren't taking it.
I'm not judging you, I'm just telling you that life is never as black and white as you try to make it out to be.
>>908806
But the anon that builds houses clarified that if he had to do that kind of job he wouldn't do it, So yeah, depends of the kind of manual labor you are doing and why you are doing it. It's about choices, if you don't have one, you'll probably have to kill yourself or push it to the limit till you find a way to get out of that hell
>>908827
You really sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.
>>908842
I'm just responding based on what you are telling me about your life. Deal with it.
>>908656
>Actually I just pile up the money in a bag
Don't tell /biz/. If they find out you'll never hear the end of it.
>>908863
Why is that?
>>908815
underrated
Camus was referring to the act of working at all in the face of inevitable failure. It was a metaphor for humanity's endless idealism when confronted with reality.
>>908201
We actually read the myth of Sisyphus in my medical ethics class. I guess the point was that when we become doctors, we can't save everyone. We labor to rescue a dying person, and they roll down the hill into death. And then the next person comes in and we have to do the same all over again.
>>908201
>>908377
I wish we could ban people who haven't read the book in question from posting in threads about the book.
>>908394
So you didn't read the book? Also yes, all of my jobs have been laboring and trades work.
>>908201
OP, don't but offended by this question: are you a fucking retard?
>>908394
I have to agree, working manual labor sucks donkey dick. I've never met someone who is happy at a manual labor job either, they're all either bitter with broken backs/knees/wrists/necks/all of the previously mentioned, or they're alcoholics.
>>909598
I spend a lot of time in front of the computer, have an unergonomical fapping technique and recently got a job is manual labor. I feel like my wrists are going to give out before I hit 30.
>>908872
"Interest on interest (dont know the english phrase for it) is the worlds 8th wonder." - Warren Buffet
What it means is that if you save smart you can make money by just owning money. You essentially create a money machine. Thats why a lot of rich people never have to work again not because they live some sort of ascetic lifestyle but because their money duplicates on its own (or in most cases because someone like me does their job for them so they can chill with a babe on their yacht)
>>909606
Well, I have quite a lot of money, the thing is, I don't see the point in investing it so it can duplicate on it's own. Why? Because the more you have, the more you concern about preserving your money, that's why rich people are as miserable as poor, money becomes their primary concern. It's an endless cycle, that's why I follow the middle path so I can be free withing the system (freedom outside of it doesn't exist I think).
Also, just curious, how do you exactly make the money work automatically? Seems pretty interesting.
>>909747
Pay people to do something productive and save the profits for yourself. Give them bread crumps.
>>909747
>Also, just curious, how do you exactly make the money work automatically?
It's invested into things that grow. If you went back in time and bought 10,000 shares into Google or Apple, it'd be worth hundreds of thousands today. And the stock market isn't the only way to do this. Some people buy start ups in technologies that they believe will be huge someday, and when it goes big they sell it to a bigger multinational company and make money that way.
>that's why rich people are as miserable as poor, money becomes their primary concern.
This is what poor people tell themselves to feel better about being poor. It's true in some cases, sure, and is a common stereotype in media but there are plenty of people who are mature enough to enjoy a wealthy lifestyle with their riches and understand that money simply opens doors to opportunities for happiness, while money in of itself doesn't make you happy.
>>909774
That wouldn't go well, I don't want to harm/exploit another human being.
>>909796
Well, that's a good way to grow fortune I suppose
>This is what poor people tell themselves to feel better about being poor.
It is usually. But every rich person I know dedicates at least half of their time to maintain/increase their fortune or else they lose power or get left behind in the race. Money opens possibilities as it opens responsibilities and concerns.At some point fortune stops increasing your lifestyle quality and starts decreasing it. Taxes, money-laundry,bribery, more complicated deals and businesses will be neccessary to keep your money in your pocket.
>>909796
I think there is a middle ground for every person, where some amount of money minimizes the amount of stress they have. Stressing over the amount of taxes you're paying seems like a better stress than not being able to make rent or the IRS investigating you every time you breathe.
>>910083
It's still stress,stress nevertheless
>>908201
are you missing the point on purpose?
Amazing thread, there were way too many posts seriously engaging the lunkheaded, astoundingly literal-minded OP.
>>908406
Sisyphus is imagined to be happy as a way to illustrate the rebellious attitude inherent in the absurd man.
Sisyphus was condemned to eternal hardship as a way of punishment, but if he were to find joy in his task (say as in setting high scores and racing against himself the next day), even in face of its absurdity, it would be a big "fuck you" to the gods, and give him the last laugh.
>>908425
CAMUS WAS NOT SPECIFICALLY REFERRING TO MANUAL LABOR YOU STUPID FUCK, AND ANYWAYS SISYPHUS WAS PICKING HEAVY THINGS AND PUSHING THEM UP A HILL, THERES AN ENTIRE BOARD IN THIS CANTONESE SPORTS-BETTING WEBSITE THAT FINDS PLENTY OF JOY IN SOMETHING LIKE THAT
>>911176
I don't know man, if I was a greek god it would make laugh even harder about Sisyphus because he's still pushing the rock. What a rebellion to laugh at the god while still doing their bidding.
Also if he's able to reflect he will eventually break down. Laughing in the face of the absurd is just a little trick that's doomed to fail.
>>911176
Reminds me of the tortured souls dancing in Offenbach's Overture to Orpheus in the Underwood
If the end result is the same/meaningless, you can cry or you can laugh. Or be content, discontent--whatever; might as well dance
>>912511
If he can make conscious decisions and is aware about his situation it would make more sense if he rebelled actively. A bit like Captain Virgil Hilts in The Great Escape.
>>912527
*for those who don't know the movie. The protagonist broke out of prisoner war camp over and over again but ultimately always fails. But at least he tries.
>>908425
The only builder I know teamed up with another guy to build a wheelbarrow treadmill, so he can have the experience of rolling heavy shit up a hill in his spare time.
