Thoughts?
>>902692
He was a good statesman and was responsible for the industrialization of France and helped in making it a major power during the 19th century
>>902706
Second French Empire was pretty damn GOAT in general.
Hypocrite and Failure
Good leader; a mere shadow of his uncle.
got totally owned lel
> paraded in his own chariot
>>902712
Militarily speaking? Yes that's true.
Administratively? As a statesman and politician? He's probably better then his uncle. Intentionally organizing a coup on the 40th anniversary of Napoleon's coronation as emperor to make himself emperor?
Man had gusto.
>>902718
The Franco-Prussian War was a disaster but that doesn't wipe the slate of his previous victories like the Crimean War.
>>902692
He was a fantastic statesman. His social and industrial reforms modernized France, especially Paris.
Unfortunately, he was no Napoleon when it came to the battlefield. His generals informed him that when war with Prussia came, they would wipe the floor with them; it was totally untrue.
1870 worst year of my life
What am I missing here but where was Napoleon II? First empire was Napoleon I, second empire was Napoleon III, where was Napoleon II?
>tfw there isn't a Third French Empire
>>902803
Napoleon II was Napoleon's son who was killed in Africa serving in the British Army
>>902692
he had poor health during the last half of his reign, but he was decent overall and undeniably popular. Even before the Franco-Prussian war he was democratizing the regime and it would have turned France into a parliamentary monarchy.
>>902803
Napoleon I's son who died very young of disease after the Restoration. Napoleon III was a nephew
>>902809
No, that was another Napoleon. A nephew or great nephew or something of Napoleon I. Napoleon II was the son of Napoleon. He technically ruled for a few days after Napoleon's abdication, and that's why Louis-Napoleon called himself the III. He died in his 30s in Austria.
>>902823
'disease'.
We all know the Hapsburgs had him killed.
>>902826
Shit, really? Damn lineages
>>902804
I'd prefer the French Communal Socialist Republic.
1871 worst year of my life.
>>902832
It is pretty suspicious that he'd die of tuberculosis. That isn't usually something aristocrats died of, is it?
>>902803
Napoleon II was the King of Rome, Napoleon's son. He died of Tuberculosis when he was in his early 20s.
>>902826
>>902834
Napoleon III's son died in the Anglo-Zulu War
>>902841
>mfw the faggots who destroyed so many French records and monuments along with much of the city are idolized by edgy left-wingers on the internet
fuck off you fag
>>902849
>muh records
>muh monuments
Who gives a shit about stupid fucking statues and old palaces? Boo hoo.
>The earth shall rise on new foundations
That means you get rid of the old ones.
>>902809
That's Napoleon III's own son, Louis-Napoleon, who was to become Napoleon IV, had he not been killed by the Zulus. The Empress was never the same again after his death.
Anyways I think Napoleon III is generally underrated. Everyone concentrates on his failures and the Battle of Sedan and such, but he was quite a good statesman and politician. The Second French Empire saw a lot of growth in economy, the fine arts, and is generally a very interesting time to study.
>>902844
Only because of physical isolation. If he's serving in an army, and living in a city he'd absolutely be susceptible to it. TB is a horrid disease, especially in the 19th century. It spreads by body fluid, but it causes you to start hacking up pieces of your lungs everywhere.
Obviously if you're poor and living in a crowded tenement, you've got a much better chance of exposure, but all it takes is one stray bit of flegm to catch you.
>>902853
>who cares about records
>on the /his/ board
yeah, because every other communist nation has turned out to be a paradise you retard
>>902871
Pretty much every Communist nation to have ever existed for any significant amount of time has been propped up by the USSR, and therefore established with the poisonous Marxist-Leninist ideology at it's foundation.
Maybe Communism isn't the problem; maybe it's the Stalinism most every self-proclaimed Socialist state has adhered to.
>>902875
yugoslavia
>>902876
And it is a coincidence that Yugoslavia was probably the best of the Communist states?
>>902883
Is it a coincedence that the best of the communist states was worse than contemporary democratic-capitalist states?
>>902853
I care about the records because the commune proved short-lived and, not to be rude, utterly pointless considering the rapidity with which it was forgotten in all but marxist circles, who appropriated the event for ideological reasons, not historical ones. Historians would have ultimately profited greatly from all the state records destroyed and we would have a better understanding of the "structure" of history, so to speak, which even Marxists should be able to appreciate considering the importance of the transition from feudalism to capitalism in their historiographical tradition.
>>902692
He was probably one of the few heads of state that actively tried to challenge USA hegemony in America, if only Spain and the UK had listened.
>>902858
True that, but others with turberculosis, like Kafka and Chekhov, lived fairly long with the disease. I suppose it depends on what strain he caught, but good living conditions surely should have allowed him to live longer?
>>902893
Spain was a third rate power by that time. They couldn't have done anything
>>902692
>try to follow footsteps of his uncle
>send troops to aid anglos in Crimea and bail out t*rks
>start a war in the Americas just to put an AUSTRIAN on the throne and get rekt
>have your own son die fighting for the eternal anglo in Zululand
>get eternally fucked by the Prussians
With that being said, France's empire building in China, Vietnam, Madagascar, and Algeria was pretty badass (pic related). If only Nap III directed colonial resources towards fucking the Anglos over. Alas, Napoleon I is the closest we'll ever get to a perfect leader.
>>902897
Eh, perhaps. The horrific thing about TB in the 19th century is that thee's not a lot that can actually be done for you. 'Good conditions' help, but to the extent a soft bed and lots of rest can help with your lungs filling with blood. Kafka and Chekhov also lived after further medical advances had helped, such as more pain relievers/muscle relaxants. These are important because the TB victim will literally tear their own lungs apart, and so anything to keep them from coughing is good.
Did some quick research, and apparently what did Louis Two in is he managed to catch Pneumonia as well. Having two respiratory ailments at the same time is the sort of situation where TB catches you quick.
>>902893
>He was probably one of the few heads of state that actively tried to challenge USA hegemony in America
>did it while the US was fighting it's bloodiest war
>tried
More like an opportunist that pulled out once the US recovered.
>>902692
>Got his ass kicked by Mexicans while a fighting an unnecessary war
>Ruined 200 or more years of French foreign policy (divide Germany) in about 10 months
Seems overrated to me.
>>902935
>Got his ass kicked by Mexicans
Maximilian failing in setting up an Empire supported by Napoleon III isn't Napoleon III failing directly.
You think Mexican socialists could've taken on the 2nd French Empire head on? I don't think so, Manuel.
>>902931
Kinda like attacking Canada while the UK is facing Napoleon right?
>>902953
>You think Mexican socialists
>He doesn't know that 19th century Mexican liberals were for free markets while conservatives were into commie shit
Just stop.
>>902965
>Napoleon III pulls troops from Mexico after diplomatic talks with the US
>He thinks this equates to Juarez kicking Napoleon's ass
Just stop.
>>902977
I'm not the same anon. I was just criticizing you for your misuse of the world socialist.
Where the fuck did I imply Mexico could ever stand up to a world power?
Learn to spot a samefag.
>>902953
The second mexican empire was quite stable until the end of the ACW, let's not forget Juarez and his army did not "liberate" mexico but "invade it" from american soil, with american weapons and commanded by american generals.
>>902980
Nigger work on your context
>>902987
Don't forget to also add that Juárez and his allies almost constantly got their asses kicked by French forces even with numbers on their side and the "Republican" victories only came after Napoleon III decided that relationship with the US was more important then setting up a puppet state in Mexico.
>>902849
And the British officer who was supposed to keep him out of trouble (Louis was known to seek out danger) survived the fight; but he was basically shunned by every other officer for the rest of his life. Captain Carey was his name.
>>902912
Why didn't the Anglos help him against the Prussians like they would eventually do in ww1?
>>902918
cool, thanks for the explanation
>>902998
Wait really?
>>903038
There are theories that he was a scapegoat of a larger conspiracy to end the Bonaparte dynasty.
>>903016
England just acts like the police of the balance of powers
Until germany was formed France was the most powerful country on continental Europe, so the eternal anglo did what was best for them (unknowingly creating the disaster that would be ww1 and ww2)
>>903045
Also Napoleon's banter pissed them off so many times Disraeli though he deserved what happened to him
>>902997
Oh I know, my point was that the French accomplished what they seek in Mexico, the French Army got as far as the rio grande, Max was emperor and Juarez fleed the country with no hope of ever comming back. It wasn't entirely the fault of Maximilian that his empire crumbled, as his country's destiny was sealed with Lee surrender at Appomattox.
Should of helped the South against the Eternal Anglo's wishes desu.
Like we needed three of those.
>>903007
Totalbiscuit why?
This fucking cunt ruined my country.
He's fucking shit.
>>903244
Maximilian is an idiot though.
Unless the French were willingly to aide the South, America would have eventually pulled back together and shit canned the French puppet in Mexico.
Maxie should have only accepted the crown if France was willingly to back the South.
>>903398
mexico?
>tfw no Napoleon dynasty
I'm almost never a romantic but I really would've liked if the family lived on longer.
>>903468
Maximilian couldn't deny the crown at the time he actually accepted it since he was already in talks with Napoleon III to gain it. Once it came time to actually choose he couldn't turn it down because it put Austria in a precarious position with France due to Italy. Otto was really upset about the whole thing and Maximilian was pretty much just a sacrifice to keep things cool in South Europe.
>>902692
As previously stated he was great at domestic policy and administration, and he greatly helped develop free trade (cobden chevalier) in Europe, and France's industry. The after effects of his renovation of Paris must also be commended on a national and international level, with many cities adopting Haussmanian city planning which is still to date the most efficient and densest urban design.
Although his foreign policy ended in disaster, one must keep into account his building of a good relationship with the UK, essential in a time of colonial expansion, and his excellent colonial policies. He spent weeks in Algeria assessing the situation and his management of colonial affairs was praised even by Abd el-Kader. These policies, had they been enforced by the Third Republic, may well have changed the outcome of French colonisation in the 20th century.
I find Zola's depictions of the character rather accurate where his political life is concerned, if a bit biased by his republican views. They still give a good account of his reign and persona.
Fuck his wife though.
>>902729
As a statesman? I wouldn't say so. I grant you he is an underrated statesman, but come on, the first Empire has shaped what modern France has come to be.
>>902729
>previous victories like the Crimean War.
>victory
It achieved nothing. Russia got all the things she lost back within 20 years. It won him popular support back home yes, but not much else.
>>903384
A number of factors including poverty, shitty diet, very bad air pollution, people crammed together in tenement housing, and lack of access to antibiotics. Plus most people smoked heavily from an early age.
It took several years for the newly-formed NHS to start to catch up with public health issues. The horrible giant tower blocks were one of the outcomes of the public health program. Many were built outside of the cities with the view to getting kids out into the fresh air. Of course, this ignored the fact that there were no services or shopping areas, and the towers became vertical ghettos of disaffected youth.
>>904477
>The Nephew of Napoleon humiliating the Son of Alexander
>Not Important
>>903590
Oh I didn't know that. Thanks anon.
19th century Europe is interesting but I am virtually clueless about it.
>>902815
T-take it back!
>>902804
Soon my brother
The fire rises
>>903043
Wouldn't be too surprising from the eternal anglo.
>>904787
>Marine and the FN
>Not the complete antithesis of the Second Empire and Bonapartism in general
>>904787
>FN
>Bonapartiste
fuck off
I appreciate his exile. He realized he fucked up as Emporer and payed the price. an honest man.
>>902692
He tried so hard. And got so far. But in the end, it doesn't even matter
>>905450
Strong centralized government with charismatic leader?
I dont see the huge divide between the two. Obviously not the same but the nuances arent enough to say they're completely different.
Any good book recommendations on the Second Empire? I read a lot about it in historical texts in passing, but never as the main focus of any works.
>>902912
>>905822
see pics related: looking at a bibliography of a book I have on the Paris Commune
>>906310
>>906313
>>906334
>>906336
Pic related is a general work. Another general work on the 19th century is Robert Tombs' France: 1815-1914.
Another on Napoleonic propaganda is Spectacular Politics: Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte and the Fete Imperial, 1849-1870, by Matthew Truesdell
http://bookzz.org/book/863997/276cd2
>>904787
so le pen would be a second coming of robespierre?
>>906343
a few more, searching "Napoleon III" on bookzz, I found a short biography on him from the lancaster pamphlet series. I think I'm going to read it myself because its like 60 pages and seems to hit on all the main points without having to invest too much time into the the topic.
http://bookzz.org/book/2203929/473dc3]
GOAT anthem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHpxmxL4JrI
