Why did they send a runner to Sparta instead of a horseman?
>>884012
humans have sweat glands, although their top speed is slower an athlete can run nearly all day without overheating
>>884022
Cavalry would ride for 50-60 miles a day.
>>884012
They had infamously shitty horses back then, especially everything south of Thessaly. It's entirely possible they had 0 horses, and if they did, they might not have been the quality to keep up with an ancient Olympic distance running champion.
Humans are not suppose too run far. The whole running culture is a terrible scam to sell you running shoes. See "Micah True" the extreme marathon runner who died of heart attack in the middle of a run.
Greeks were living close to absolute poverty. Only the rich could afford to have horses. The name Phillip is derived from Phil Hippos, meaning Lover of Horses. The Greeks were so fond of horses, they valued horses so highly that princes were being named horse lovers! Even the whole story of Alexander is laden with anecdotes about horses.
Thus the poverty Greeks had to run instead of riding a horse to delivery a message. How pitiful is that?
>>884069
>Humans are not suppose too run far.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15549097
>>884069
YOU STILL HAVEN'T GIVEN US THE DRACHMAS FOR THE HORSES WE LOANED TO YOU.
GREECE PAY DENBTS.
>>884022
So do horses, actually. They have lathering, a special protein for keeping hair wet for easier heat loss.
>>884069
>Humans are not suppose too run far.
>>884081
This, our ancestors got their food by literally outrunning and then beating animals to death who weren't able to perspire as efficiently.
>>884069
refrain from posting when you lack an educated opinion please
>>884012
Humans are the best runners.
obligatory pic
>>This, our ancestors got their food by literally outrunning and then beating animals to death who weren't able to perspire as efficiently.
Hogwash.
Manufactured lie by those who are addicted to low impact aerobics, aka running. Have you seen long dist runners? They look like twigs.
Do you know what finally happened to the original marathon runner?
He died!
Only reason people were running is because they were too stupid to domesticate animals.
The only environment that made modern humans possible is cold! In cold northern hemispheres, if you ran and sweat at the wrong time you froze and died!
The idea that people ran after a gazelle for miles after miles until it exhausted is absolute baloney.
>>884069
>Humans are not suppose too run far.
When you said this you revealed yourself to be a stupid motherfucker.
>>884144
You're wrong.
First of all, modern Humans emerged in the savannahs of Eastern Africa, and are VERY well adapted to heat (source: WE FUCKING SWEAT). Furthermore, the lean musculature of the runner is VERY efficient.
Additionally, all other animals are far inferior to Humans when it comes to endurance running. To the point where ancient Humans would CASUALLY JOG after their prey sprints off to inevitably collapse from exhaustion.
>>884144
Modern humans evolved in the African plains, then branched out from there.
Hominids most likely came to be as the trees became sparser and the jungle gave way to plains. Then simian locomotion stopped cutting it.
>>884012
Cause its sad when dat ass has to go but its nice to watch it happen
>>884105
No. Our ancestors got their food via pack hunting and the use of tools.
where can I find a collection of gifs and videos of runners and athletes asses? that shit gets me really hard
pls bro I need this
>>884012
The horseman was riding an aboriginal horse or a wild crossbreed. Most would die in infancy because the people didn't value them as much as the dogs, cats etc
When did humans master the art of pigeon breeding? Easily by the time of Jesus.
>>884231
Carl Sagan says the first language, by hunting, we were using language to describe that technique or species we were hunting.
>>884244
Much earlier than that, the use of domesticated pigeons as sacrificial animals was in the OT, which predates Jesus by several centuries.
>>884144
Shut the fuck up and take your pseudoscientific assumptions back to your biology teacher for him to correct.
>>884257
Boy did they, there were pigeons in courts as dating back to 3000 B.C. India
Look at that, scientific evidence.
>>Additionally, all other animals are far inferior to Humans when it comes to endurance running
You need to cover 100 miles fast. You have two choices: a good horse or your legs.
Are you seriously gonna run it all by yourself?
Will you be that retarded?
>>884299
it's simple
>ride shitty greek horse to exhaustion
>run rest of the way
also learn to quote faggot
>>884012
>That ass
>pony tails
>blonde pony tails
gib name pls
>>884185
So that's why ancient couriers were running over the back of horses instead of running a la Maraton??
>>884299
You assume there is a good horse available - there is no mention of horses in the legend.
Anyway, humans aren't fast - they wouldn't have to be. They just have to track and jog after their prey, generally more apt for short burst of speed*, until it can't run anymore. Then bash it's skull.
>>884321
Yes, because horses are better for speed.
Humans are better for endurance - slow and steady wins the race.
In a separate note, anyone notice the most prominent examples of persistence hunters (some humans, wolves, hyenas) form rather complex animal societies? Is there a relation here or am I missing something? (I'm setting aside lungless spiders.)
>>884346
I'm pretty sure the animals you listed are inherently social creatures, but I don't think that's related to their style of hunting
>>884346
rephrase your question I think I understand your theory.
>>884382
I thought maybe they'd pool their resources to track and pursue prey. Usually they hunt stuff bigger than them, so I thought maybe it would take a group to actually scare prey into running instead of just lashing out.
>>884346
Oh mammals have hierarchal structure in wildnerness because it's harder to hunt all day then to out-graze your competition.
>>884394
What do you mean by pool their resources? I believe the idea was that they didn't exactly need resources for a long term hunt because they have the physical endurance.
>>884144
Ah, it's a ruse. Thanks for the laugh.
>>884012
BECAUSE SPARTANS DID NOT USE TO USE CAVALRY; SPARTANS IMPLEMENTED CAVALRY ONLY WHEN THEY STARTED TO DECLINE AS A SOCIOCULTURE.
>>884069
>Humans are not supposed too run far.
>>884414
I mean resources like numbers, senses/intel and communication.
They usually chase after prey that is bigger and often faster.
If the prey is out of sight, the group can scatter a bit, look for hints, scout. If the prey is found by just one individual, that one can call for the rest of the group - so, each would spend less time searching giving less respite to prey and they'd be less likely to lose their prey which would be a serious loss considering the energy they invest in the hunt.
On the other hand, bigger animals are just more dangerous. Yes, wolves, wild dogs and hyenas have fangs, but it takes one swipe of an elk/antelope to break their necks. So, they end up ganging up, swarming around the prey that is too tired to run.
I'm just piecing these together from nature footage, Wikipedia articles and a few internet charts, so forgive me if I'm being silly.
>>884144
>The only environment that made modern humans possible is cold!
What. Anatomically modern humans evolved in Africa (know for being warm) and only spread elsewhere well after our evolution to our modern form (including our brains) was already complete.
Moreover,
>In cold northern hemispheres, if you ran and sweat at the wrong time you froze and died!
Precisely! So why do we have sweat glands when very few other animals do? Even most animals in hot climates don't - it's an incredibly water-wasteful method of cooling compared to panting or simple radiation. The only advantage it has is that it cools the body off fast and keeps keeping it cool. Now, if humans were natural ambush hunters, why would our bodies be so wasteful with water? The only reason to have such a cooling system is if you are in the sun, and working hard out in the sun. In a pre-agricultural time, that means running. If an ambush predator like, say, a lion gets its body temp up sprinting after prey, it fucks off and pants in the shade for the next several hours. A grazing herbivore might need to be out in the sun for long times, but they can still take their time, and rest and cool when needed. Thus, most animals don't seat. Only running out in the heat creates the NEED for sweat.
>Have you seen long dist runners? They look like twigs.
And... what? Because they "look like twigs" that body type couldn't possibly have been evolutionary successful? (at least before humans moved into other climates with other requirements and other genes became likely to reproduce)
>The idea that people ran after a gazelle for miles after miles until it exhausted is absolute baloney.
You realize Bushmen still do this today, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o. Other indigenous groups (i.e. NOT doing it because of some modern exercise fad) also run such distances, showing it to be at least somewhat "natural". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rar%C3%A1muri_people
>>884129
Then there wouldn't be any posts on /his/
or 4chan.
>>884144
>>884465
Also,
>low impact aerobics, aka running
makes me think you have no idea what you're talking about. Running is one of the most HIGH-impace aerobic exercises (compared to biking, rowing, cross-country skiing, etc.) as it's not only weight-bearing (as opposed to cycling, rowing) but the repetitive jarring jarring impact puts put huge strains on your knees, shins, and ankles. Seriously, this is common knowledge.
>>884430
But the Athenians were at Marathon, and sent a runner to Sparta.
>>884231
whynotboth.gif
We evolved to be persistence runners. Then once our brains developed, we realized tool use and cooperation are more effective. Furthermore, they're not mutually exclusive; even if you run an animal down you still have to finish it off, and I'd imagine that like other types of hunting it helps to have some buddies to corner it.
>>884471
IT APPLIES TO ALL HELLENES; IMPLEMENTATION OF CAVALRY WAS SOMETHING EXCLUSIVE TO THE PELASGIAN PEOPLES, UNTIL APPROXIMATELY THE END OF THE FIFTH CENTURY B C E / BEGINNING OF THE FOURTH CENTURY B C E .
>>884299
On a road in a temperate climate? No.
In 100-degree weather? If I was in good marathon runner shape, yeah. Horses have to go at the walk for long distances anyways, and in that sort of heat will need a lot of water.
More importantly, over broken ground or rough trails, probably. There are many trails a human can go on that a horse can't, or can't any faster than a human. Combine that with the heat of a Greek summer forcing a horse to a walk anyways, minus shortcuts in mountainous terrain a horse can't take and there we go.
>>884430
A) The Spartans did use cavalry.
B) They continued doing so into the Peloponesean war, which was the height of their power on an absolute scale, at least in the beginning of the conflict. It was dwarfed by Athens, but that was a result of them not growing fast enough, not because they were weaker than their forebears of 300 years past.
C) Marathon was fought by the Athenians, not the Spartans.
D) YOU DON'T ACTUALLY ADD ANYTHING FROM ALL CAPS BESIDES LOOKING LIKE A RETARD. IS IT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO ANNOUNCE THE VAPIDITY OF YOUR POSTS SO THAT OTHERS DON'T HAVE TO READ THEM CAREFULLY AND CAN JUST CHUCK YOU IN THE TRASH PILE?
>>884321
a) because they were in temperate climates where even in "hot" summer a human's sweat advantage is neutralized. Same reason Iditarod dogs beat humans over any distance in those sorts of temps but (as with all dogs) will go hyperthermic forced to run or hike for miles on a hot summer day. (Personal note, this is actually a major problem in my hometown of San Diego in the desert parks in the summer, people taking their dogs hiking and assuming because they're doing ok their dog is too when the dog can't cool down fast enough no matter how hard it pants until it just collapses in the shade)
and b) because those courier were largely going over flat terrain or on roads, so the horses could move at something above a walk at least some of the time. A person can run over ground a horse can't without risking a broken leg.
>>884139
Obligatory pic...... For ants?
>>884499
don't you know? Caps lock is cruise control for cool.
>>884082
Hittites gib Mitanni.
Without venturing into the biological debate, does no one realize how expensive horses were throughout most of history? Horses were for the wealthy nobility who could afford one. Even in many languages today the word "gentlemen" is "horse-rider" or "equestrian." (E.g. Spanish "Caballero", from "caballo".) In contrast the word "infantry" (or Spanish "infanteria" (sorry, no accent marks on keyboard), French "infanterie", etc.) comes from the word Latin "infans", meaning child. In Spanish, "infante", which now means an infant, originally meant "a foot soldier", and "infanteria" meant "those too inexperienced to be in the cavalry." Unless you were an elite, more most of history most people walked where they went, and that didn't change in a military context.
>>884542
Moreover, even social considerations or prestige and rarity of cavalry aside, why would you risk a valuable horse on a courier when his only message to deliver was that you had won. Perhaps if a time-sensative message had to be delivered to a general in the midst of a battle that would be worth the risk, but not here. And it would be a real risk to the horse. 1 in 5 was a common horse loss ratio for pre-modern and early-modern cavalrymen just moving about the countryside on campaign. There's a reason the Mongols, etc. always brought remounts. With an animal as easily spooked as a horse and encumbered by a rider, there are so many ways for a horse to be injured on unimproved trails/"roads" - holes, fording rivers, etc. Just look at how many injuries there are in modern horse racing! (Granted, those are super-delicate thoroughbreds, going at a full galop, but they're also on the best tracks we can make with ultra-light jockeys.)
>>884069
you disgust me
I refrain from insulting people usually, but this post was a steaming pile of shit
>>884144
>The only environment that made modern humans possible is cold!
Loving every laugh friend.
>>884561
>why would you risk a valuable horse on a courier when his only message to deliver was that you had won. Perhaps if a time-sensative message had to be delivered to a general in the midst of a battle that would be worth the risk, but not here.
This thread isn't talking about the guy who ran from Marathon to Athens. The Athenians sent a guy to run to Sparta to ask for their help in the coming battle, a distance of over 100 miles.
>>884069
>Humans are not suppose too run far.
This is wrong.
Example one: The achilles tendon is a spring that absorbs the forces produced by long distance running.
Keep running idiots.
>in a 1998 study involving triathletes, who, of course, do a lot of swimming, cycling and running. Researchers from Straffordshire University in England found that among elite triathletes, 62.1 percent of injuries suffered during a five-year period were caused by running, 34.5 percent by cycling and only 3.4 percent by swimming
http://running.competitor.com/2014/08/injury-prevention/are-shoes-really-to-blame-for-running-injuries_12779
>Studies vary widely, but it is estimated that between 30 and 80 percent of regular runners are injured in a given year.
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/04/chasing-down-a-better-way-to-run/
>In any given year, anywhere between 65 percent and 80 percent of runners get laid up with an injury.
http://www.active.com/running/articles/avoid-a-running-injury-with-the-10-percent-rule''
So at least 50% chance of crippling injury if you're an active runner. Super high chance of injury given we "evolved doing it". Or was there an evolutionary advantage to being injured? So that Lucy would care for your injured ass and pity fucks you?
Obvious refutation is "we don't run right! it should be done barefoot on grass!" Then why don't you run so? Do you run barefoot on grass? Of course you don't!
You run wrong. And you defend running. Do you realize how retarded you are right now?
Humans are the most effective long distance runners by a wide margin for numerous reasons. Early human hunters used to hunt prey animals by running after them for a long enough time that the animal completely collapsed from exhaustion and the human runner would go over to it and bash its skull in with a rock or stab the helpless animal with a spear. It's one of the oldest hunting methods that is still practiced by primitive indigenous tribes in Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o
>>884069
10/10 m8
I was giggling like a little school girl
>>884185
>that picture
>>884668
hunter gatheres didn't run even close to the level of professional athletes
I think there are some misconceptions in this thread.
There are several animals that can outrun a human long distance, including horses and wolves.
The only thing human is best at is running long distance in a hot, dry weather (because he can sweat and carry water with him)
>>884695
Running under African sun for over 8 hours. You need to have a darker skin to do that. Most of humanity is past that point. If you have darker skin, running might you be in your blood. But come on man. No fair skinned person can handle tropical sun for over 8 hours.
why is there one guy in here who is like anti-running?
>le persistence hunting meme
The vast majority of anthropologist agree that persistence hunting was uncommon, and certainly not something people evolved to do.
It's extremely un-efficient.
>>884012
>Nobody is answering the questing
No horses were with the fucking infantry army that Greeks sent to Marathon.
Greece isn't cavalry country. Both for reasons of economics (horse = expensive) and the fact that Greece Proper is mountainous and hilly as fuck. This doesn't mean that they don't have horses it's just that the messenger was sent from the fucking foot-army.
Not to mention battlefield runners from any army in history were professional runners. For fucks sake you're ask to run along with messages and orders for almost the whole day back and forth from commanders to the front.
And Aristocrats won't lend you their horses because fuck you I need this for the fight.
>>884029
60 miles over ~12 hours while a mediocre marathon runner runs 26 miles in 3 hours, if you don't have a pony express with fresh horses along the route then a human is the next best option
>>884088
not as effective as sweat, no horse can gallop for more than 4 miles, after which they trot slower than a jogging human
