How can god know he is omniscient?
What's with all the atheist shitposters lately?
>>881476
mate that post has nothing to do with atheism, it's a valid theological question, not to mention its a bit weak to throw any question criticising accepted dogma out the window as atheist shitposting
Because he knows everything
>>881476
Teenage angst.
>>881476
Always been here, just coming out of the wood work, because the theists have partially burnt themselves out.
www.compellingtruth.org/truth_God.html
/thread
>>881492
>>881495
>Take me to Church
>>881495
Were you ever here for pre 2010-09 /b/?
>>881509
Quality posting mate. You would be happier on another board.
>>881509
Someone's quite triggered
>>881520
I love it.
>>881476
The better question is where did all these theist roleplayers come from? They clearly aren't very strict followers of their religions because of the way most of them act and their wikipedia-tier knowledge, and before /his/ existed, they didn't seem to exist at all.
>>881520
I'm laughing at your tears. You've literally started crying just because someone posted a thread discussing God's omniscience.
Nobody is discussing OP's question.
>>881543
>>881492
>Other religion
>Judaism
Judaism is the world's third largest religion, dumbass.
>>881751
>Judaism is the world's third largest religion
Try not to be so retarded, especially if you are going to chuck around insults. Judaism isn't even close to the world's third largest religion. There are only approx 15 million Jews on the entire plant.
>>881751
But it's not prevalent on 4chan, jew, so there's no need to treat it as a separate category from buddhism, shintoism and other big religions
>>881758
Only 15 millons? Wow, but is factible.
>>881765
I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean but if you are disputing me you have Google at your disposal.
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
>>881470
Omniscient is thought of as knowing everything. I think infinite knowledge is a better description. Infinite knowledge implies lack of bounds, and constant growth. Instead of God knowing everything, what God knows is without limit, and also increases without limit.
>>881470
All-knowing m8
>>882051
That is some deliciously fallacious apophatic reasoning there, friend.
>>882074
I don't see what's so negating about it.
>>881470
If He is omniscient, that is something He would know, as He knows everything.
>>882051
if his knowledge is constantly growing, at any given point there must be things that he still doesn't know, thus he cant be omniscient
>>881470
If you know everything that would include whether you're omniscient or not.
>>882199
But if he weren't omniscient, he could not be aware of the gaps in his knowledge and thus believe itself to be omniscient.
He can't ever be sure, because thinking himself omniscient because he isn't aware of any gaps in his own knowledge is something a non-omniscient being could do.
>>882600
I don't believe in god, it's just that knowing whether something is omniscient is a thing you have to know to be omniscient, or else you can't be, by definition.
>>882646
Understood. But how would a 'God' go about knowing if they are omniscient? They would be faced with the same epistemological issues we are, just on a much grander scale.
>>881751
>Judaism is the world's third largest religion, dumbass
.
.
.
This is too good
>>882594
So God can only know He's omniscient if He's omniscient. Luckily for us, He's omniscient, and told us so.
“He determines the number of the stars and calls them each by name. Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit” (Psalm 147:4-5).
Not even God can disprove solipsism.
>>882707
As long as we accept that rules of logic apply to God, he can't be omiscient, because according to logic, even an omiscient beeing wouldn't know if it knows everything or if there is still something it doesn't know
>>882600
>LaPlace's Demon
I don't have a clear understanding of what this is.
I do know that God knows the end from the beginning, and infer that means He knows everything in between too, on all scales.
I don't think we can understand the scope of what He understands.
>>882741
How can we agree to that? I don't think God has to follow the logic of men at all. The logic of men says that if you have two fish and two loaves of fish, you have enough to feed one kid.
But in God's hands, two fish and two loaves of bread are enough to feed 10,000, with plenty left over.
That's not logical to me. But it happened, several times. To say it did not happen, because it is not logical, is to say that human logic is more powerful than the God Who made the universe by speaking it into existence.
>>882746
>two loaves of fish,
Human logic fail.
>>882746
>two loaves of fish
You mean like meatloaves?
>>882746
>the logic of men
there is no such thing.
logic is universal
>But in God's hands, two fish and two loaves of bread are enough to feed 10,000, with plenty left over.
As long as you can multiply fish at will, you can feed with it as many people as you wish. Nothing unlogical about it
If God is omniscient he knows all perspectives. In his mind all possible universes are simulated eternally. They are simulated in infinite detail, so they practically cannot be told apart from "reality". God's mind IS reality.
So he simulates an infinite number of universes where all people experience eternal pleasure, but simultaneously also imagines universes where everything is endlessly tormented.
How can I call this being "good"? Does God actively suppress these possibilities to avoid suffering? Why?
>>882758
Ugh, now I'm remembering salmon loaf as a kid; biscuits with salmon in them, covered with creamy vegetables.
Yikes.
>>882765
Logic is not universal at all. It is a human contrivance. Do you think stars work out their own orbits, or burn rates? Do you think comets know when to go replenish themselves in some cosmic ice machine?
>>882691
You should have known that I'd say an omniscient being would know if they were, or else they wouldn't be omniscient, and so on...
If you are trying to say nothing can be omniscient, kinda like the omnipotence paradox, posing a hard question isn't the way to do it.
>>882778
Could God actively suppress evil to avoid suffering, yet allow love to be the highest virtue?
>>882742
Laplaces Demon would be something that knows everything on every scale from beginning to end.
If you were a being that thought you were like that how could you tell?
>>882796
By comparing what I thought would happen with what is happening, over time, I suppose.
>>882785
stars and comets and all objects in the universe are slaves to the same logic. That's the reason why humans can make accurate predictions about celestial objects
>How does some thing that knows everything know that it knows everything?
What kind of stupid question is that?
If it knows everything then logically it knows that it knows everything.
This is "how do you know infinity is infinite" tier.
God just like infinity is defined by it's qualities.
If it's not infinite, it's not infinity.
If it's not omniscient, it's not God.
>>881470
You're an idiot.
>>882804
"logic" is a human tool used to model the universe.
Don't confuse the model with the thing itself.
>>881484
Ask God He is living entity with a personality that loves humanity and will approach you.
If you believe God is just a faded force, an inanimate thing somewhere... a distant concept a dead energy then what's the point of even asking about God?
>>882836
No, YOU.
>>882861
logic is not just any model
it is the very fundamental tool without which we could make no statement about the universe whatsoever
Every statement, every theory has the implied basic assumption that logic applies universally
>>882826
but infinity doesn't exist
>>882746
No, it didn't happen. Not because it's illogical, but because it didn't happen.
>>882890
Think about it
Imagine a system - think about it becoming more and more complex at a speed you choose even the speed can go up on and on forever.
In the end God would be able to manage the system with ease and in perfect harmony regardless of how complex it becomes - God is just as omnipotent in every single point of existence, there is no shade of change in God.
>>882800
Then he would encounter the problem of induction and the issue that things could exist that he didn't even know about. He might even be tempted to make up some stuff about those things he didn't know about and declare them His religious beliefs.
If God is perfect and self-contained and needs for nothing, then why did he create the universe and - what's more - proceed to create Man? Aren't the mental projections of his
knowledge (i,e. omnipotence) just as good as the real created thing?
And if God is indeed not perfect, then he is not worthy of worship.
>>883364
>And if God is indeed not perfect, then he is not worthy of worship.
why not? if he had some logical limitations, but still completely in control of the world, including the afterlife, it wouldn't really change anything for humans.
really, Christians would be better off if they just did away with the omnipotence/omniscience thing, it just creates logical more logical problems then it solves. why not just say that God is a being with immense power, the most powerful being in existence. the Bible doesn't really state God's omnipotence, some parts even imply some limits to his powers.
>>883430
You're a coward, then. You are telling me to worship a being only because this would save me from damnation, rather than because he deserves to be worshiped for his ideal nature. Even knowing he is an imperfect and flawed being, you'd want me to worship this thing, just to score some good points with him and be saved.
Luckily, God isn't real.
>>881470
Omniscience is forbidden by the uncertainty principle.
>>881470
He can't.
Not a complex question.
he created the knowing to know and perceive everything its like time and space its like a box and the things inside the box are inside time and space somebody had to make the box and the box belongs to him and the things in the box belong to him so time and space and the things in time and space are just apart of the person
>>882574
Why? We have experience of a similar phenomenon - universal expansion. The universe contains everything, yet it expanded. There is no "outside the universe" yet every point continues to recede from every other one.
In the same way, what God knows/is aware of is all there is to know/be aware of, yet God's knowledge continues to expand.
>>882741
>As long as we accept that rules of logic apply to God
Everything I know indicates clearly God doesn't agree with logic, and goes His own way.
