>history is a class struggle
Is there any merit to this statement?
Yes, once you stop looking at it as a normative claim.
What about the parts where the castes or classes aren't united fronts and aren't really fighting that much?
>>876555
What do you mean?
>>876555
"class struggle" refers as often as not to what we describe as "the point of production" in capitalism, or the moment of extraction or exploitation in feudal or tributary societies. The oikos itself, in slave societies, was a point of constant conflict over the issue of masculinity.
This is as much class struggle as the lower orders supervening the greater.
>>876545
probably
>>876561
It actually refers to the relationship between labor and the owners of the means of production, as mediated through the control of those means.
Overly reductionist, pointlessly politically charged, ultimately only useful as rhetoric to gain political power, based on "reason" rather than observation.
Overall a quaint, but useless and unpredictive, idea that rests in the dustbin of history alongside phlogiston and aether theory.
>>876567
>MOP
>outside of capital
Time to reread capital 1 mate. You meant "forces of production." And even then, Marx's imputation that 'production' existed prior to capitalism is early and schematic.
>>876572
What do you propose as an alternative to the LTV?
>>876557
For example, my country isn't undergoing a revolution. Is yours?
And where are the poorfags united in fighting people other than poorfags?
These classes are spooks, they may make sense as economic constructs but they have no positive foundation in the sociological reality.
>>876545
Marxism is a pseudoscience.
>>876573
I know what I meant, faggot.
>>876580
>What are labor unions
>What is an aristocracy
>What is the capitalist class
Protip, /pol/: It isn't the Jooz.
>>876545
It is really saying nothing, it really means "the history of the world is the history of conflicting interests". Which is not profound and adds nothing to what is already known.
>>876581
> Calling Marxism a pseudo-science
> Not being a logical positivist
Shiggidy diggidy
>>876590
>logical positivism
yer dumb
>>876585
>What are labor unions
Servants of the specific interests of their respective aristocratic sponsors, whose primary goal is to prevent the latter from being overthrown violently
>What is an aristocracy
People fighting and murdering one another for millennia, not an united front
>What is the capitalist class
People competing and sabotaging one another for centuries, not an united front
Plebeians fight plebeians and the patricians fight the patricians over the individual patrician's economic objectives since the dawn of time
When a patrician wakes up he asks himself not how to ruin the plebeians' lives, but how to ruin the life of the patrician living in the other mansion, because he decided he wants that guy's mansion, so he gathers the plebeians to do the fighting, and conjures up some casus belli those retards can gobble
'Porky' is made of people that want hegemony, and in order to obtain it they have to take it away from others that exist within 'porky'
You are the same as /pol/, pretending 'the jooz' is a single entity, there's no such thing
I can't grasp Marxism
every discussion of Marxism here degrades into rhetoric, meme arrows and namecalling
how do I into this stuff
>>876576
The LTV is completely disconnected from the contemporary world of finance, in which most of the money that circulates is generated out of speculation over money itself, rather than the actual exchange of goods and services.
Today my company's stocks are worth 5% less than yesterday. Did my workers perform 5% less within the last 24 hours? No. Tomorroy they will be worth 6% more. Will they git gud in 24 hours? No.
You would have to come up with an idea of value that accounts for people who do not even register the existence of labour and labourers, and yet happen to move a lot of money.
Value has outgrown labour.
>>876665
>The LTV is completely disconnected from the contemporary world of finance, in which most of the money that circulates is generated out of speculation over money itself, rather than the actual exchange of goods and services.
I see you've not read volume 3
>>876576
How about a marketing theory of value?
The best lies and the best lie detectors have the highest value.
You win by selling shit for the price of gold and buying gold for the price of shit.
Labour and the qualities that are inherent in the good or service exchanged don't matter, promises do.
>>876710
Not to mention your labourers are worthless if nobody knows your product exists.
>>876614
But you're making shit up. Class struggle doesn't imply that the classes are internally united, organized and peaceful.
It just implies that these internal conflicts are less important historically than inter-class conflicts.
>>876545
Class struggle doesn't exist, the revolutionaries just become another ruling class faction.
The struggle is not between classes, it is within the working class. The masses as a whole must change, not a vanguard party. They must become more conscious of not only the activities of evil oppressors but also themselves, their own flaws and why they allowed communist dictatorships to get into power.
>>876786
>class struggle doesn't exist because it can start anew after a revolution
....
>>876573
>Marx's imputation that 'production' existed prior to capitalism is early and schematic.
What are you implying?
>>876694
Which chapter?
>>876545
There is some, as long as you move away from the very flawed Marxist conception of what constitutes a class.
For a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
>>876630
You wanna learn about Marxism? Read a book you stupid fuck. Preferably one by Marx, since, you know...that's what you're trying to grasp.
Or don't, because, since you're stupid enough to post this dumbass question, you're just gonna end up in a gulag anyway, because you're a scrub.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>876773
>It just implies that these internal conflicts are less important historically than inter-class conflicts.
But they're what ultimately drives the poorfags to slaughter one another, how can they be less important?
>>876590
i dunno what these smart words mean but i'm gonna say that you're wrong
