Was invading Russia as big of a military blunder as some people like to paint it to be?
>>871202
inb4 Mongols
>>871210
>faggot OP knew the answer already and had to inb4
>>871214
t. John Greene
Yes, stop making this thread.
>>871234
How?
>>871202
yes
most of russia's major production facilities was well past the ural mountains, and therefore to actually cripple the russians into being able to let them agree to peace terms you'd need to take hundreds of thousands of miles of territory from them, and maintaining all that land requires a massive amount of men you need to draw away from your armies which puts a strain on your own manpower.
not only is taking that much land extremely costly, russia has hordes and hordes of manpower from their vast lands to draw from to throw at you and wear you down, and russian winters were no fucking joke.
simply put, after russia became too big, barring some sort of meltdown in society or stability it was all but impossible to take enough land and crush enough russian armies to actually consider peace terms with you in a position of strength.
>>871283
russia moved their factories to the urals but was the population there large enough to support large scale production matching the germans if they bothered to mobilize their economy?
Of course it was
Operation Barbarossa led to the collapse of Germany
>>871301
>russia moved their factories to the urals but was the population there large enough to support large scale production matching the germans if they bothered to mobilize their economy?
They moved the population with them.
A better question is would they have had more success if they didn't try to fucking genocide the occupied peoples?
>>871372
No.
>>871218
t. Buttmad Russiaboo cuck
>>871372
Yes, they should have immediately declared it a war of liberation and offered independence to the Ukrainians, Baltic peoples etc and of course promised the Russians liberation from Bolshevism.
>>871399
It would be in conflict with their manifest destiny though.
>>871202
it was a logical next step in a plan that could never fucking work
>>871410
Yes, but that was a failure of Nazi ideology to begin with. They could have won, if they had not been Nazis basically.
>>871202
Sadly, I don't think Hitler had much of a choice. There was no doubt that Stalin would invade when he built up his armies. Hitler would have been crushed from both sides.
Hitler could have invaded Britain instead but it wouldn't have much of an effect since Britain is really just a small island. So Hitler decided to try a final gamble to conquer Russia.
>>871412
If they weren't nazis they wouldn't even conquer France.
They won on the west because they were essentially mobilised since 1936 while allies mobilised in 1939 so they were like 4 years into war economy vs 1 year into war economy during summer 1940. Without it they wouldn't be able to equip enough troops to perform the operations required to conquer France.
>>871414
Hitler didn't have choice because Stalin cut of raw materials stream after Germans were late with payments for too long.
>>871416
They won in France due to superior strategy and tactics. The French Army and Industry were both superior to Germany's in 1939.
>>871448
>superior numbers
France vastly outnumbered them nigga
The wermacht was not as big as in 41
>>871414
>Hitler could have invaded Britain instead but it wouldn't have much of an effect since Britain is really just a small island.
That probably would have ended badly for him as well. Not invading the USSR bad, but it would have failed and end with German Dunkirk (or worse because the Royal Navy could block the channel piss easily). Launching an invasion across that little stretch of water is actually really difficult and Germany didn't have anything near the naval infrastructure needed to pull it off properly.
>>871451
Why do you literally lie?
German numbers were slightly superior to French and British numbers combined
>>871414
>Hitler could have invaded Britain instead
Yes, after dealing with Royal Navy, Royal Air Force, British Army and terrible weather.
Airstrip One was a worthwhile strategic position because of big industrial base it had, and that includes naval industry which was something Germany lacked and needed.
>>871273
Pull your hand away.
>>871518
>British """""""""""""""""army"""""""""""""""""
>>871473
"Vastly" is inappropriate and that guy is wrong, but you do know having 3 less divisions means about 150,000 less and that's with the French army overmanning infantry regiments and the fact those 3000 additional planes the Germans were flying required 4 men per, plus officers, plus logistics, plus pilots, plus anti-aircraft placements.
Rifle for rifle, the Germans were at a considerable, but not vast, disadvantage.
>>871532
>but you do know having 3 less divisions means about 150,000 less
Divisions contain different numbers of men depending of the country
The total number of men fot both sides is clearly written, so you dont have to start some retarded calculation.
Germans were more numerous (by almost nothing, but it still make claiming they were outnumbered dumb as fuck).
>>871532
The Allies had a thousand more tanks though, who you could argue took the most logistical effort of all.
>>871546
The allies didnt rely on tanks, they used it as "a bonus".
The most decisive factor of the blitzkrieg was air force anyway, and the Germans had a big advantage on this
>>871525
Don't forget that much of the South was prepared for invasion by rigging hidden barrels of oil to spew fire all over country roads, and all of those farmers issued weapons and explosives to blow up local infrastructure in total secrecy.
The German army relied upon speed and out-manoeuvring the enemy, and the terrain in Southern England is much less suited to that than France. This is of course if the Royal Navy didn't fuck them six ways to Sunday before they ever reached land proper, and if they did the invasion force would be trapped between the British Army and the guns of the Royal Navy, which would not have been pretty.
Also IIRC Germany didn't have any landing craft at all. The plans for Sealion involved loading up all of their tanks and men in industrial barges from the Rhineland to cross the Channel in, which is doubly stupid because you've put all of your forces into unwieldy tubs with the very real possibility of being shot at by actual warships, and those barges are also needed to make your industry work which they can't do from the bottom of the Channel.
>>871564
>mfw a single tiny destroyer casually strolls into a clump of German """""landing craft""""""
>>871594
>tfw no mfw
>>871421
>>871425
What the fuck are you talking about?! Their tanks partly lacked fucking communication devices, had one man turrets and fuel tank to reach the next village. The Airforce were scattered around the country unable to mobilze itself in time and also wasnt connected properly to the infantry units.
>>871399
That's more or less what actually happened though.
>>871425
um no, tiger tank?
>>871414
>Sadly
>>871283
>most of russia's major production facilities was well past the ural mountains
What is Eastern Ukraine, Central Moscow area and St.Petersburg area?
Those areas are also highly populated.
>>871399
Implying they didn't do this.
>>872393
The Baltic people most certainly got liberated.
>>871202
short answer: Yes
Long answer: If you invade Russia without decent boots, coats and with metal helmets without protection from cold in between the helmet and the head, then it is not just dumb, it's suicidal...
>>872913
don't forget production - the Soviets were funneling more planes to individual fronts each month than the entire German monthly industry output. It's amazing they made it as far as they did with such a huge disparity in industrial capacity.
