Has socialism EVER been successful anywhere?
Pic related clearly wasn't
Mondragon Corporation
Kibbutzim
Worker Cooperative Movements
Depends what you mean by "socialism."
Not really. In fact it was such a failure that the 20th century attempt was roughly as successful as capitalism. Throughout the post-war boom the Eastern Bloc could only manage a similar rate of growth to the West.
>>866506
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Socialism, is in fact, Marxist-Leninism, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, Marxism plus Leninism. Leninism is not a philosophical theory unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Marxist system made useful by the Marxist core beliefs, market utilities and vital philosophical components comprising a full philosophical theory as defined by the Greeks.
>>866586
I'm not even sure what this post is trying to say
Canada and much of the developed world
Kekalonia
And Rojava right now
>>866524
Literally half of the people on that list are failures.
>Dubcek
Pussied out like a bitch in Moscow, then got coaxed into signing a law that allowed random beatings of civilians.
>Durruti
Entire Catalonia ended up collapsing on itself
>Tito
Ran his country on western loans and died just before Yugoslavia inevitably collapsed
>Marcos
Just some meme Mexican Indian spokesman riding a horse around.
>Chavez
Solid kek
>Sankara
Was on his way to become Mugabe 2.0 before the people finally decided to kill him.
>>867036
>Mexican Indian
>Catalonia collapsed all on its own
>pussied out to Moscow
>Pic related
>>867094
>pussied out to Moscow
That's completely correct, Dubcek was a pussy and a bitch and arguably even a traitor.
>>866506
People's Republic of Kampuchea
Kerala model
Revisionist socialism accepts capitalism is the best wealth generation tool, but sees it as a necessary evil where the government needs to intervene to restrain the predatory and oppressive nature of it. This involves things like preventing monopolies, progressive taxation and comparatively high rates of taxation compared to unrestrained markets like the post 1980s United States, minimum wage, legislation involving workers rights and guaranteeing a respectable number of minimum paid holiday days, maternity and paternity leave, nationalisation of industries where there is a natural monopoly and where capitalism's greed-motivation doesn't serve the populace - health being the most notable.
Revisionist socialist governments were in power in western Europe for many decades after WW2 and even after neo-liberal governments privatised many industries and relaxed restrictions on finance and business in the 80s, scandinavians and southern european countries excluded to varying degrees, those states still retain nationalised healthcare and other positive remnants of socialism.
Many people living in the neo-liberal economies where the wealth gap has skyrocketed since the early 80s, and the middle class has shrunk, and things will generally be worse for those growing up today than in the post war era - many of those now clamour for a return to that era of relative equality. It was assumed that after the USSR fell and the west won the cold war that capitalism had emerged absolutely triumphant, but all of Marx's 19th century critiques about its injustices still remained. The way capitalism truly defeated its critiques was by acknowledging them and absorbing them. Tony Blair and Clinton in the 90s led what was called "the third way" movement, which in a very hegelian way was supposed to combine socialism and capitalism into its superior successor. Clearly that hasn't happened, as if anything we've been going in reverse.
Sorry for this rambling, incoherent post.
>>867094
>oil money wasted on momentary measures
>does nothing to make the economy actually productive
>Venezuela is now fucked again
Why can't you faggots look further doen the line, as opposed to admiring your own belly button and asking for temporary relief.
>>867139
Revisionist socialism sounds a lot like competitive capitalism. For a capitalist system to work for the populace preventing monopolies is necessary, progressive taxation is justified as being spent on increasing opportunity for the poor (which aids capitalism) and most natural monopolies are either nationalised or heavily regulated even in the most pro market countries eg UK railways which are privately owned but heavily regulated.
>>867094
Poverty percentage has to be the biggest meme statistic of all times since it fluctuates even within countries, let alone between them. Not just talking about your picture but generally.
>THE US HAS 20% OF PEOPLE LIVING IN POVERTY WHILE SHITHOLISTAN HAS ONLY 5% !!! TAKE THAT, FATASSES
>completely oblivious that the "poor" in America all have houses, cars, TVs and some degree of education while the "poor" in Shitholistan have literally jack shit
>>866506
>>866506
Considering every capitalist state had to adopt reforms based on socialist criticism of capitalism in order to not be overthrown by its people or simply collapse, and that every attempt to move away from these reforms has lead to economic disasters in those capitalist states, we could actually be asking why we think capitalism is successful when all of its real successes are based in either outright opposition to or reformation of capitalism.
>>867021
except Tesla is open source
>>867094
Convenient that they stopped at 2014, eh?
And that's just the official inflation rate - unofficial estimates range from 720% to 808%.
It's almost as if bus drivers and fat soldiers don't make good stewards of the economy.
>>867964
The popular capitalist defense is to claim that all problems in a capitalist system are of external origin, a corruption by unrelated outside forces or the failure of the human spirit to live up to capitalism's standards.
>>867995
>Convenient that they stopped at 2014, eh?
It is convenient that the capitalist owners saw the death of Chavez as an opportunity to force a coup by creating economic instability by selling their subsidized goods on foreign black markets.
>>866506
>the Soviet Union would have collapsed without ethnic and political overtones to its economic stagnation
I want this meme to die.
>>868047
Which is, of course, not actually tenable since there is no outside force, not when you actually are the one that controls the fates of nations.
>>867140
Education and health are long term investments.
Venezuela sucked before and after the Revolution, why do you blame the Revolution for what always sucked?
>>868053
Don't bullshit, Venezuela is doing shot for the same reason as Russia the oil prices are down. Russia just has some semblance of an economy without oil while Venezuela clearly doesn't
>>868105
>Venezuela sucked before and after the Revolution
Maybe, but it is objectively better since, notwithstanding its current crisis (which is really a problem of enforcement). Young upper class people led by their upper class parents don't understand this because they aren't told what it was actually like pre-revolution, but the food lines existed then too, but they were due to an actual crisis. Amusing in a dark humor way how people are compelled to cut off their nose to spite their face.
>>868069
No it wouldn't have split apart but clearly the need for economic reform and the attempts to fix aggravated the issue and led to the national leaders to see no benefit in remaining a part of the union
>>868162
Oh, there was definitely reform needed, but it didn't necessarily have to be capitalistic, and could have been done on a much slower basis that allowed for tinkering as it became clear parts weren't working.
>>866674
Rojava isn't socialist. And I'm not sure why they're calling them a success...they just started
>>868138
>Don't bullshit
What's bullshit is pretending that the black market selling, especially to Colombia, isn't happening and that the timing for this isn't a bit coincidental.
And if I recall Russia is under sanctions as well, but that's neither here nor there, oil price is a red herring for Venezuela. That said the Chavez government should have pursued development of the communes and local production faster.
>>868168
True but by the 80s it was too late. The 70s killed the Soviet Union by allowing all its problems to build. I could definitely see the USSR surviving to modern times if was able to decentralize the economy and allow for some independent decision making
Japan was apparently the most prosperous socialist countriy. Worldwide deindustriazation which neoliberalized almost all socialist economies crippled Japanese one though.
Socialism is only successful if it transforms into Communism
So no.
>>868178
If the black market selling could collapse the economy then it was fundementally unstable. Venezuela was better after revolution but they over spent and didn't have any effective contingency plan for oil prices falling, which is irresponsible .
>>868212
Unfortunately there's no such thing as perfect management, and people with ill intent will (literally) capitalize on any policy that is supposed to work to better people. Subsidizing goods should have helped the populace AND business, and it did, but it's not the government's fault that people in economic power decided to sabotage their countrymen for a political powerplay. It is the government's fault for thus far not controlling them, but that would require "authoritarianism". And yes Venezuela should've diversified itself but (in its current form) it's only been around for so long and with the global economy as it is relying on oil to develop is logical if not necessary.
>>867094
Come stand in line with me in Venezuela, socialist brother :)
If it's Tuesday we'll be allowed to buy meat! God I'm so glad you foreigners know so much about my country.
>>866506
>>868264
Governments can't pretend to live in an ideal world they have to be able to react to changing circumstances. I think my issue with Venezuela is that it did have black market issues before recently but the oil money was used as a bandaid. The government should have fixed it's issues when it had the ability too.
>>868282
No fuck you, and fuck you for calling my country socialist.
AND THE NORDIC COUNTRIES ARE NOT SOCIALIST EITHER. It is called Nordic Capitalism for a reason.
>>868392
Bill o'reilly told me otherwise.
>>866506
No. Our forefathers tried it in Jamestown when they first got here; it was a spectacular disaster, and they almost starved to death. They instituted private property rights over the land and the fruit of the land, and prospered so much that they had a feast to celebrate the wonderful harvest. That was the first Thanksgiving, and that's the last time anyone was fool enough to think socialism means anything but starvation and death.
>>866506
People's Republic of China.
>>867036
Tell me how Catalonia collapsed. It's not uncommon to hear commies to excuse their system's shortcomings by claiming "it was a dictatorship, a bureaucracy, real communism didn't happen". And since some commies claim "Catalonia was real communism", mentioning how it collapsed might show them their shortcomings of their system.
>>868424
They're not leftist, let alone socialist.
Britain until Thatcher ruined everything.
>turned a feudal pre-industrial shithole into a global superpower that put the first man into space
>not successful
>>868392
Dude, no you don't understand.
Socialism has never meant anything about the means of production or anything like that, it's just a codeword for thing I, in all my redpilled glory, don't like.
Its a type of government, not an economic theory.
>>868392
>Nordic capitalism
Source?
>>866521
This
>>868463
>constant cycles of stagflation
>unions crippling the country throughout the 70s
Yeah, nah.
>>868478
Literally 2 seconds of googling you chucklefuck
>>866521
This.
I regard 'socialism' to be a very economically focused ideology. Things such as increasing welfare, reducing tuition fees, not privatising healthcare, raising the minimum wage, that kind of thing.
Extreme leftists in history have identified as socialists, but on paper it's very much a moderate leftist ideology. By definition, moderates believe in working with the system to make changes, not changing the system altogether.
>>867897
>Lasted 12 years before being completely obliterated in the largest war of all time
>Successful
>>868105
>Education and health are long term investments.
>I'll be in denial because I'm a retarded socialist.
Your kind is resistant to any notion of common sense, feel free to kill yourself.
>>866506
what is cuba.
>>866506
>Pic related clearly wasn't
>>869246
A meme.
>>868470
Tsarist Russia was industrializing very quickly when the February Revolution happened. The Civil War (which of course is not solely the fault of the Bolsheviks) set them back massively. And I say this as a pinko.
>>866506
Dumbass
That was state capitalism
>>869514
Yeah but the fact that said state capitalism failed to become socialism which failed to become communism sort of speaks against it.
>>869246
Are you actually using gold medals in order to prove the success of socialism?
>>869573
the population is like 11 millons, and have more gold medals than the rest of the whole LA in just 14 participations. Thats outstanding.
>>866506
How was the USSR unsuccessful? The proletarians were liberated from the feudal yoke
>>869647
And placed under the party yoke...
There was no real workers' democracy in the Soviet 'republics' past 1921 at the latest.
A tragic failure to be honest.
Anyway, if you're under feudal yoke, you're not a proletarian, but a peasant.
>>868280
Let's not pretend to be Venezuelan now, friend.
