>oldest intact civilization on the planet
>will be kicking and staying relevant long after other current powers have faded into distant memory
What's the secret to their success?
Intact? Last i checked the countryside is a toxic dump.
Overpopulation
Well, you remembered to not claim oldest culture this time.
>>853247
Not him but it could very well be among the oldest. There's nothing to suggest they weren't contemporaries of ancient Mesopotamian societies.
>>853239
> China has been a single continuing civilization trough all of history
I bet Iraq would be older, no matter what arbitrary definitions of "intact civilization" you use that would include China.
>>853253
Culture would include neolithic art.
Isolation and conservatism.
Their writing system is the only reason they aren't as divided as the descendants of Rome.
In an alphabetic system, speech alters writing.
In a logographic system, you can make any noise you like so long as you write the same sign.
If Rome used a logographic system, the French, Romanians and Italians would use the same writing system, and probably consider themselves to be speaking the same language.
The lack of a standard alphabetic dialect would also mean there would be no "wrong" pronunciation. This means more weird dialects would hang around, and languages like modern Italian and Modern French would be more localised - they would be the Loire dialect and the Tuscany dialect of Latin, and even if they didn't understand each other in speech, they would understand each other in writing.
>>853257
Iraq, Greece and Egypt are all pretty irrelevant now.
>>853257
How about language. They don't speak a language descended from the one spoken in Sumer, or even from 2000 years ago.
>>853239
I read that China's success can be partly explained by their method of expansion, called by a sociologist "mild universalism". China has expanded through the mostly peaceful integration of peoples living in the Yangtze River Basin and the Pearl River Basin. The human groups living in these areas adopted Chinese political authority and some basic tenets of Chinese civilization (Confucianism, belief in Heaven, few cultural elements actually), and most of their own culture was left intact. In fact many non-Mandarin languages are spoken today in southeastern China, for example, and these languages have a low intelligibility with Mandarin. And northern and southern Chinese aren't genetically mixed either, they constitute two distinct genetic groups.
>>853243
"China most definitely has no catastrophic environmental problems that would pose a threat to harmonious society or lead to a total collapse."
>>853239
There are just too many of them.
I think the interesting thing about China is how often they've been subverted by foreign powers, yet maintained their dominant culture. I guess there's just always been too many of them.
>>853362
That is also true for Latin europe
>>853239
Their secret is boy-piss soup and the various testicles of endangered species. Helps them fuck harder or something.
>>853271
>How about language.
Well 3/4 of China doesn't speak the same language it did 3000 years ago either for that matter, the Han invasions rekt the local languages just as thoroughly as the arab invasions.
>>853239
>What's the secret to their success?
Relatively good geography in comparison to their neighbors and an early unification of their civilization early in their history that endured are the two primes factors.
Enviable geographical position, Confucianism leading to a very stable society (for the most part), strong government institutions where you advanced based on merit and not connections.
They've got all the ingredients to be wildly powerful at any time, something most countries or people lack.
>>853804
>Confucianism leading to a very stable society (for the most part)
>muh lost mandate of heaven
It did lead to a stable social structure, but rebellions popped up all the fucking time because a bad harvest basically delegitimized the current authorities.
>Intact
>>853821
>Confucianism
>Origin of Mandate of Heaven
Literally just got to this thread to say : No
Mandate of Heaven popped up around the Zhou, predated Confucianism for centuries, to explain theirfuckingselves why they threw off the Shaman-Kings directly appointed by the Gods that were the Shang.
Also the fact that the Zhou managed to pull it off against the Shang God-Kings blew the religious sensibilities of Ancient Chinese: "how did we manage to BTFO the representatives of the Gods? Holy shit what have we done?" therefore Mandate of Heaven is also a theology of sorts.
>>854671
The Communist party in China stayed in power after The Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution without civil war taking place, I'd say that's intact
>>will be kicking and staying relevant long after other current powers have faded into distant memory
T. man who wont be able to grow food in a few decades.
>>853253
>There's nothing to suggest they weren't
ancient aliens
>>853270
>Egypt
>Irrelevant
Lol okay whatever enjoy waiting 2x for your imports you sheltered faggot.
>>853270
Probably because of adherence to tradition. China, as its many incarnations was as good as, or even better than, the Romans.
China isn't that successful right now, though. I believe its best days are long past and they'll never reach such spectacular heights again.
China in the past was known for being the greatest culture in its region, producing the highest arts and developing the most advanced technology in Asia. China nowadays is known for shoddy mass manufacturing, its corrupt government and heavy pollution. They have pretty cool military marches though so I guess they've got something going for them.
>>855149
You're comparing Tsarist Russia to Communist Russia right now.
They produced great works in both periods.
>>855218
Communist Russia producing great culture does not mean "communist" China is gonna do the same. Right now the country is a cultural wasteland, and the few products are extremely derivative of japanese culture or downright theft of western culture.
>>853239
Don't really know the answer to your question. But this is a good context to ask the following. What would China be like today if the Nationalits remained in power?
I wonder how it must have felt to destroy the chinese empire after 2133 years.
>>855416
>and the few products are extremely derivative of japanese
....maybe you're mistaking shit as "Japanese" when it most likely originated from China like a lot of aspects of Japanese culture.
>>855416
I blame the cultural evolution, which in turn I blame on Mao, which in turn I blame on the Party not deposing Mao correctly
>>855443
Nah he's probably referring to Anime-Style cartoons in Mainland and Taiwan. Those do exist.
>>855443
Japan stole its comics culture from China?
Just to make one example among a shitload. Besides, the cultural revolution killed chinese culture. Any kind of reappropriation of China derived Japanese culture is not an original chinese product, it's a derivation of a japanese product.
>>855433
Probably still be in the warlord era.
>>855466
I think what China needs is the Japan treatment, i.e. get BTFO in a war and stop being a huge faggot of a country. Imperial Japan was trash.
>>855446
Oh, i see.
>>855466
>the cultural revolution killed chinese culture
Yes, this is why Chinese still keep the traditional calendar around while Korea and Japan use Gregorian...oops.
I swear to god cunts here think the CR is a complete success. Mao succeeded in stamping out culture where communists everywhere failed.
Oh and as for this?
>Japan stole its comics culture from China?
Anime n shit was ripped off from Westerners for sure. But "Manga" was derived from the Chinese art of "Manhua"
Which has nothing to do with comics originally, but with funny images loaded with socio-political criticism & mockery.
Pic related, an Manhua lambasting Christian Missionaries during the Qing Period. In the Japanese case, that "Fart War" picture that has been floating around is good example.
>>855495
I don't really think the demilitarization of Japan was a result of the defeat in itself, as much as it was a result of losing both capacity and necessity for military endeavors. You wreck China, they still have to deal with internal stability issues in half the country and border spats with India and shit, so they can't really disarm, and if you force them you're just gonna have revolts after the first border change.
>>855511
China got cucked by communism. No matter how much kung-fu they practice, how much rice they eat, they will always be dominated by a government created by the west.
>>853239
>oldest intact civilization on the planet
>>853239
MYSTERIOUS AS THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
>>853270
egypt is regional power
>>855837
>civilization
oi mate you pointed it out yourself, being jumping lion-hunting dairy cow blood drinkers isn't quite being a civilization
>>855921
Das racis' tho.
>>855471
But they fought against the warlords.
>>855915
because of a canal built by europeans
>>855966
>Traditionally, the Maasai diet consisted of raw meat, raw milk, and raw blood from cattle.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai_people#Diet
>>856052
my comment had nothing to do the the maasai you autist, it's a reaction image
>>856052
sorry, what i meant to say was I wasn't implying that the maasai have the oldest civilization in the world, I was just using that picture as a reaction image
>>856008
Canal was built by Egyptians
>>856081
that's like saying Panamanians dug the Panana Canal.
>>853239
Confucius
Ethnic homogeneity (even though Han were not historically unified, through force of will they memed Han Chinese ethnicity into existence)
A non-phonetic writing system that allowed communication between people will completely mutually unintelligible spoken languages. (highly efficient for unifying elites, even though people criticize it for not promoting literacy among peasants--who gives a fuck?)
Geographic boundaries separating them from all but one other imperial race (Mongols)
>>853239
Isolation and a cyclic view of civilization. It's like if the Western civilization was stretched back thousands of years starting with the Egyptian Dynasty, and then the Persian Dynasty, and then the Macedonian Dynasty, Roman Dynasty, and so on.
>but those "dynasties" didn't control the same parts of the west unlike Chinese dynasties which were all roughly in the same area
That's where the isolation comes into play.
>>854698
>shaman king
>>853239
they don't have yellow guilt :^)
>>853239
monoculturalism
Contrary to belief this does not mean being beastly to immigrants or rejecting good ideas from other cultures. If someone has a good idea, you adopt it, then it becomes part of your culture. At this point why should you cater to worse ideas?
100% of the population have no desire to blow their foot off with a shotgun, you can improve multiculturalism and diversity by encouraging 50% of the population to blow their foot off with a shotgun, but this is not a good thing.
>>855149
>3000 years of prestige
>200 years of humiliation
>30 years of explosive economic growth
>"yeah they'll never reach great heights again desu"
Okay then anon.
>>856204
But Europe has attempted monoculturalism a handful of times. How did China create a civilization with over 1,000,000,000 people that over 90% of which identify as Han?
>>853239
>intact civilization
>what is Cultural Revolution
You're basically retarded, almost as bad as that Future Politics guy.
>>856258
Future Politics guy was a forced meme.
>>856238
because they're more collectivist rather than individualist
>>856339
But why did that trend develop in East Asia, but not Europe?
>>856238
The Roman Empire was based on Mediterranean trade, the provinces were just provinces and all roads led to Rome.
By contrast the Han dynasty viewed all of China as sacred, in theory the Han ended slavery among the multitudes of agricultural laborers and had a place for them in their Confucian society, in practice this just made them more beholden to the central state rather than the local nobles, however the commoners were unaware of this, the idea that there was an Emperor above any petty regional differences became ingrained.
Dynasties and northern horsemen came and went, yet they still considered themselves part of the same entity. Whereas when the Roman Empire collapsed it became a meme.
>>856347
How did China persuade the locals to adopt the Han language?
>>856345
confucianism?
who the fuck knows
>>853239
To be fair, old Aegyptos lasted longer back in its day...
>>856258
The Italians used to call themselves Romans, the Iranians used to call themselves Persians, the Turks used to call themselves Ottomans, but the Chinese today despite everything still call themselves Chinese.
You're basically retarded if you think the Cultural Revolution wiped out Chinese civilisation lol
>>856258
As if the Cultural revolution destroyed Chinese Civilizaiton.
The communist almost destroyed it, but now they embrace it.
>>853269
>In a logographic system, you can make any noise you like so long as you write the same sign.
But mandarin is tonal, so the way you speak changes everything. Suppose you could have a mutually intelligible written language, between people that wouldn't get fuck from listening to each other, but most people were illiterate, anyway.
>>856211
>>3000 years of prestige
That's a meme desu senpai, there were tons of centuries of "humiliation", like Yuan or Jin dynasties, even the Qing. Or what about the years between the Han and Tang?
>>856362
Same reason everyone speaks romance languages, learn latin/mandarin to get ahead in life
>>856401
Yet Han/Mandarin did not splinter as thinly as the Romance languages. I'm still not convinced of many of the arguments placed herein, and am admittedly, very, very, confused on the whole subject.
>>856390
The nomads that invaded China did not know how to administrate such a large empire, and deferred to Chinese expertise to do so. Any increase in the variety of culture was done in the name of Chinese prestige (even the Mongols shoe horned themselves as a Chinese-styled dynasty). They also were mostly absorbed to become Chinese, such was the influence of Chinese prestige.
>>855065
>oh god ok everyone quiet, lets just carry on the thread and hope no one notices this.
>>855837
>that isn't run by gangly cow-niggers.
>>856483
We had a whole thread comparing Rome and China like a week ago. There was almost no /pol/shit, impressively.
>>856507
I do love this board. Even /tg/ and a tendency to turn into IF ONE THOUSAND PRAETORIANS WERE ON A FLAT PLAIN AN THER WERE 1000 MANCHU CAVALRY WITH METEOR HAMMERS, HURR DURR etc.
>>853269
nope
In an alphabet you can choose any symbol or combinations of them to represent the sound you want, just like you can with logograms
>>853239
>What's the secret to their success?
Pretending to be successful.
>>853239
The secret was one easy to pin down reason
>>855462
I love how when someone on this board thinks of culture they immediately jump to cartoons
i'm usually on /mu/, so i hope this question does not violate the conduct for /his/, but does anyone know where i can find some firm primary sources online for ming era china? anything on li zhi or lu kun would be super. i fucked up and failed to check out a copy of wm. bary's sources of chinese tradition.
Great true!
If China has "5000 Years of Continuous Culture!" Then how does Europe not? Did European culture spring fully formed as from the head of Zeus a century or two ago? European/Western civilization has just as long a time on earth as what you could reasonably call "Han Chinese" culture has. If the Tang can claim to be the the same as the Han, Then you must also claim the Holy Roman Empire was not a meme and merely the next Roman Imperial dynasty.
>>853269
Just like Arabic right?
>>853257
Iraq: does not share the same ethnicity with the ancient Sumerians or even more recent pre-Islamic Mesopotamian empires. Ethnically and linguistically arabized by conquerors from the Arabian peninsula. No longer worship native gods, etc.
Egypt: cucked since antiquity. The original Egyptian civilization is as dead as Sumeria.
>>853239
>What's the secret to their success?
They've never won a war except against themselves.
>>853239
They are not.
One: Their initial civilization is not intact and hasn't been for a loooong time.
2: There are other, longer, examples- see other replies
>>855837
Civilization is begins with the invention of written histories and literature.
>>856888
>Iraq: does not share the same ethnicity with the ancient Sumerians or even more recent pre-Islamic Mesopotamian empires. Ethnically and linguistically arabized by conquerors from the Arabian peninsula. No longer worship native gods, etc.
1% of the population is still ethnically Assyrian. But yes, you're right.
>>856898
stupid definition. the inca civilization built vast construction projects, one of which ranks as national geographic's most beautiful architectural site. they did not have a written language.
>>856917
From Wikipedia: "A civilization (US) or civilisation (UK) is any complex society characterized by urban development, social stratification, symbolic communication forms (typically, writing systems), and a perceived separation from and domination over the natural environment by a cultural elite.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]"
The Incans, despite their impressive engineering achievements, were a culture, not a civilization. Conversely, the Aztecs, despite their savagery, were a civilization due to their invention of writing.
>>856917
The people who built Stonehenge were also clearly capable of impressive construction projects. Doesn't make them a civilization in the same way as the Greeks or the Romans. We don't even know who they were because they didn't keep any written records, and it would have been likewise with the Incans (until they invented writing) had the Spanish not discovered them.
>>856931
if you check the wiki page for the inca empire, it defines it as a civilization, jackass.
just admit you're a cuck.
>>856931
>aztecs
>invented writing
Look, if you're new to 4chan, just shut the fuck up and read around until you're smart enough to contribute.
>>856931
>symbolic communication forms
>What is Quipu
>>856954
Sign language and cave paintings are also symbolic communication forms.
>>856949
meant to say Mesoamericans tbqh
>>856957
But they aren't transportable as functional letters.
>>856960
no you didn't. you're just wiping your ass and hoping we don't smell it.
>>855945
Obvious bait
>>853362
It's actually been an institutionalized defence tactic.
If they've felt that the aggressor is militarily superior, they've used the massive population and complexity of the nation as a form of defence. They've offered the service of the existing bureaucracy to the invaders as a tool for controlling the country. But it turns out that the bureaucracy controls the conqueror, making him a king only in name and assimilating his culture over the course of generations.
This approach works because the chinese culture has immense staying power within the Han Chinese.
>>853305
Sinitic was spread by the sword,the Shang and the Zhou struggled to maintain its borders.
Semi barbarian polities(Chu,Shu,Wu ,Yue) once flourished as rivals to polities of the Central Plains yet they are all reduced to regional identities.
To the far south,natives adopted Chinese culture through the influx of migrants(elite diffusion) as well centralization imposed by Sinitic polities staring with the Qin.
There's no singular northern/southern identity/genetic group,ancient Sinitics never fully displaced the indigenous populations of the Huai and Yangtze.(Teochew speaking populations are genetically similar to southern Hunanese and equidistant from Henanese and Yue speakers.
>>856203
That can't farm 30% of their arable + convertible to arable land.
>>853239
But how can you tell them apart? I mean
can they even tell each other apart?
>>857603
This is why they eat dogs. At least they can tell the difference between a dog and a fellow chinaman.
>oldest intact civilization on the planet
Prove it.
Inductive presumptions are not facts; especially when you're using exposure fallacies.
>>857588
>implying that it matters
When your country suffers from overpopulation, your more inclined to contain growth rather than expand it
>>853239
>staying relevant long after other current powers have faded
[Citation via timetravel needed]
>>856377
>the Iranians used to call themselves Persians
They still are persians as opposed to arabs and their ethnicity isnt going to change any time soon.
>the Chinese today despite everything still call themselves Chinese.
No they call themselves Zhonguoren.
Chin(a) is simply foreigners naming the former empire by its first dynasty.
Just because you cant differentiate ethnicities and empires from countries doesnt mean others cant.
You can shift the goalpost as much as you want but the cultural revolution fucked up china badly - so badly that their histroy had to be rediscovered by european archeologists.
>>853239
>implying sumerian empire aka persia hasn't stayed around even longer
OK M8, enjoy your isolationist policies especially during the Ming dynasty right after learning being isolationist is downright retarded.
>>853239
>implying
>implying
>implying success
Sinoaboos are kinda sad, their failed communist abortion is so disappointing they have to appeal to their even more pathetic history to attempt to be relevant
>>859844
>implying sinologist are this delusional
You know this is a propaganda effort no different to the claim of arabian superiority and a feeble attempt to explain away western dominance...
The mere wording of OP already points out he has no clue what he is talking about and that he is some poorly read deductionist.
>>856362
In many cases they didn't. Hundreds of local dialects abound which are unintelligible to one another. Villages separated by a few miles may as well be foreign nations. What kept the Chinese together was the standardization of writing. Being logographic it could be contorted to fit most languages with relative ease, and allowed communication between strangers. Look at Japan and Korea. Their languages are completely separate from Chinese in every way, yet for much of their histories their writing system was the exact same as the Chinese.
>>853239
remained uncucked by dogmatic monotheism and largely stayed secular
thus no monotheism exclusiveness
the other things( confusion and stuff ) can be achieved by other civilization given time (before a major monotheism cancer)
>>854671
That's anarcho-commieism with Chinese characteristics you moron.
>>859702
Since when do Persians consider themselves a continuation of the ancient Sumerians?
They've never even called themselves Sumerians, it'd be a stretch even to call them an offshoot of the Assyrians.
Your point falls flat at inception.
>intact civilization
>cultural revolution
pick one
>>853239
lots of really, really, really, really, really good farmland.
/thread
>>859663
>but but but the Cultural Revolution
No one is denying that it didn't damage the Chinese civilisation but to say that it destroyed it is delusional at best.
Also Zhongguoren is the Chinese version of "Chinese" so I don't really see your point is there.
>you see Europeans rediscovered Chinese civilisations
Ah yes just as the Europeans discovered the Terracotta warriors right? Oh wait.
China is called a civilisation state for a reason, and it would not be possible if no one in China identify themselves as Chinese or have connections with ancient Chinese culture, something that is hard to dispute when for example most Chinese people still use ancient Chinese proverbs in their speech and have read the four Chinese classics when they were young. China has a long history, the cultural revolution is only a part of it, it destroyed a lot of Chinese culture but it didn't destroy "China" as a whole, something no body has ever accomplished in history, and hence is why even in modern times people from China still call themselves Chinese.
>>853243
lmao I've been to the countryside it's gorgeous I've never seen that kind of nature and un raped biodiversity off the beaten trail. You've let your entire view of a country be shaped by some article you read you ding dong
>>853239
>What's the secret to their success?
Mediocrity
>Whats the secret to their success?
Rice.
>>853239
China's history can be summed up as geographically exploitative, and politically isolated.
Their interactions with other nations is one of them calling the shots and benefiting, or some sort of invasion against them.
Their internal consistency of culture is due to their ebb and flow of warfare within their cultural boundaries,the warring states, and also upon a lesser bias they cast on their neighbors - whom to them seem more primitive, culturally.
>>853239
At least one massive culling every century. This next one is gonna be a doozy!
