Saw this today on Facebook. I'm aware of the poor treatment they received during the 19th century and had heard of the slavery thing but was never shown any evidence. Just wanted to clarify before I spoke about something.
>trusting black lives matter on history
WE WUZ SLAVES
Indentured Servitude was a thing and in many ways even worse than slavery because when you own a slave you don't want to kill it because they're an investment but an indentured servant doesn't so they'd beat the shit out of them and a lot of them died.
WE WUZ DA ONLY SLAVES IN HISTORY WHITEY ALL EVIL INNIT FAMALAM?
>>849212
Yes it's just a meme, there is no historical evidence that the Irish were ever enslaved in America, unless you want to stretch definitions and claim wage slavery and indentured servitude are the same as chattel slavery. As an interesting aside, my Irish ancestor's on my mother's side were slave owner's in the South, and at one point the master of the house married my great great great grandmother who was his slave. I wonder what these facebook retards would think of that.
Yeah, it's pretty much an insult to slavery to compare indentured servitude to it. It was voluntary. It was in exchange service and transport. It had protections, like for example you were beaten to death because then the guy who did it would be charged with murder. If you fled and got caught, you'd either have to repay your debt or end up in debtor's prison instead of having to be dragged back. You could marry who you wanted instead of being raped by your white master. You wouldn't have your children sold away and separated from you. You were legally allowed to learn how to read. There are a million reasons the analogy is terrible and retarded.
>>849212
Yes, they were indentured labourers not slaves
Everyone knows that the slavery card is reserved for nigs only
>>849232
Echoing this post. The idea that the Irish were enslaved in the United States is a total myth that even a cursory examination of southern history should disabuse you of.
If you're really interested in slavery, check out Forced Founders.
>>849232
Truly, this Anon's anecdotal evidence of his Irish ancestors owning slaves completely and legitimately crushes the "theory" and "historically backed facts" that the Irish were treated as second class citizens and in many cases owned as slaves and treated to the extent blacks were.
well you see my boy
redhead freckly fuckers with horrendous accents, yeah
patrician brown haired blue eyed honorary eternal anglos? Slave owners
>>849212
yes, it is a meme.
https://limerick100.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/slavemyth1.pdf
https://medium.com/@Limerick1914/the-imagery-of-the-irish-slaves-myth-dissected-143e70aa6e74#.gc83qznf8
https://medium.com/@Limerick1914/how-the-african-victims-of-the-zong-massacre-were-replaced-with-irish-slaves-2574dac1fc55#.sy97nnd9r
https://medium.com/@Limerick1914/the-racist-myth-within-a-racist-myth-8eac2c890e92#.c99b54d8t
https://medium.com/@Limerick1914/a-review-of-the-numbers-in-the-irish-slaves-meme-1857988fd93c#.lc63tmrc4
https://medium.com/@Limerick1914/we-had-it-worse-eebe705c41a#.xjqt7scmg
>>849300
>numale
>trusted
>>849288
In a similar way to you leaving the claims made in your post completely without evidence?
>>849316
the picture I posted isn't the author of the articles and the paper, he's just a smug looking liberal that makes people angry.
The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.
Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.
From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.
>>849323
It works
>>849212
They were slaves, jus not in America or even in that time period. The Chinese were treated more like slaves than the Irish, which is not to say they were treated much better. We treat all new immigrant groups like shit.
>>849212
>is it a meme
100%
Indentured servants had rights, other legal protections, weren't considered property, couldn't be arbitrarily murdered on a whim, were only servants for a limited period, didn't have their offspring subjected to slavery, etcetera.
>>849323
>upset with an image of a meek looking man smirking
I think said people were born angry
>>849227
You could legally kill a slave. Indentured servants were considered people, killing them would have gotten you charged with murder.
>>849345
>Indentured servants had rights
>Hey I have rights!
>Take it to the court lol
>In the meantime let me sell you again before your contract ends and I lose my money
>>849288
Graduate in Irish Studies here. The treatment of the Irish in America never, at any point, was remotely comparable to blacks.
yes it is a meme
not that it matters either way, the "muh slavery" card is retarded to begin with, whichever side plays it
>>849342
>The Chinese were treated more like slaves than the Irish
this is a bit of a stretch, the chinese in the late 19th century were pretty much treated like the newly freed blacks.
>>849342
Actually there were some sentiments in the USA that went like this.
>So we're keeping out Chinese who just want to come here for a job.
>...but we're accepting socialists and Irish Troublemakers??
Pic related. The Irish were not called "the white niggers" for nothing.
>>849406
This, there's a reason Broken Blossoms starred a Chinese instead of an Irishman
>>849212
the vast majority of irish, and pretty much every ethinicty are slaves in the modern day, so it was probably the same back then.
we had indentured servants
one of the ships destroyed during the whole stamp acts and tea tax days was carrying a shipment of some 40 irish indentured servants
>>849232
There were also free black slave owners who were so rich it drove poor whites mad, so that doesn't really mean shit.
>indentured servitude is not as bad as chattel slavery!
Honest to fuck if you reinstated indentured servitute today people would be calling it slavery. Just because there were worse forms of slavery, it doesn't mean it wasn't slavery, dumb fuck.
>>849212
Yeah, but but in Bermuda
>>849212
Indentured service wasn't just a thing for Irish - there were probably more English who came to the colonies that way, as well as Scots and Irish. If you were poor and wanted a way of paying for your passage to America you signed up for a period of indentured service. If you were convicted of a crime and sentenced to transportation, same thing, except your period of indenture would be longer. Conditions varied hugely, but you can't really compare it to full on slavery, since servants still had some rights (although then again, they were still forced to work and beaten if they disobeyed, so it's not unfair to make the comparison.)
A relatively small number of Irish, maybe a few thousand, were transported to England's Caribbean colonies in the 17th century as actual slaves. But this was a way of disposing of rebel soldiers who had been taken as prisoners of war, not a commercial institution that swept up innocent men, women and children, so again it's not really comparable to African slavery overall.
In summary, there's a sliver of truth to it but you have to twist it a long way to make a straight comparison to African slavery.
See vagabonds act 1597, and bonded servant as adverse indentured servant. In relation to king James 1 of England. I wouldn't trust Wikipedia, get a book.
Slavery came in many different forms and has been an incredibly varied institution throughout our history. Next up, watch BLM claim that Nordic thralls weren't slaves because they were typically treated better than some other slaves.
>>849500
>Next up, watch BLM claim that Nordic thralls weren't slaves because they were typically treated better than some other slaves.
BLM weren't the first or only people to call the irish slavery in the colonies a myth.
>>849586
it wasn't slavery though
they were happy people with jobs that only required 7-10 years of work
they were free to go after their contract :^)
>>849632
Many of the black slaves were also allowed to buy themselves out of bondage. That doesn't make them not slaves.
>>849662
?
if we reinstated indentured servitude people would call it slavery therefore the irish were slaves just like the africans were?
>>849680
Your reading comprehension is shit. They were slaves. Just because there were worse forms of slavery it doesn't make them not slaves.
>>849699
>They were slaves
sure if we ignore the fact that they were paid for their labor, had rights, weren't considered property, and were guaranteed freedom.
>>849767
How voluntary do you think the whole process was, considering the general British treatment of the Irish during the time in which they were genociding the inhabitants of Ireland? I mean, if we listen to the fucking BLM narrative, if you weren't a slave then you were never harmed by the institution of forced servitude. This is a total fabrication that ignores the fact that the Irish were a subject nation of the British before the British even colonized India. All the bad shit you hear about the British Empire was practiced in Ireland before it was brought to Africa, America and Asia.
>>849767
>wage slavery isn't slavery
tell that to my cousin Roshnu in the old country
>>849793
Many cases weren't even voluntary at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Williamson
>>849827
what a wacky and tragic story
>>849793
>if we listen to the fucking BLM narrative, if you weren't a slave then you were never harmed by the institution of forced servitude.
ahhh i think i see the real issue here. Anyway it's not BLM's narrative, if you actually read the article it's not even BLM saying it's a myth.
>his is a total fabrication that ignores the fact that the Irish were a subject nation of the British before the British even colonized India.
if you want to claim that the irish in ireland were slaves or treated horribly by the british then do that, but don't claim that they were slaves/treated worse than black slaves in the colonies when they weren't.
>How voluntary do you think the whole process was
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant#North_America
the vast majority of them came here by choice but like
>>849827
points out, some of them(not many, just some) were kidnapped and forced here, but this wasn't exclusive to the irish, many blacks in the 17th century were also kidnapped and brought here and forced into indentured servitude, look at anthony johnson for example
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_%28colonist%29
notice how it says he was an indentured servant? Because that's what he was, just like the few irish that were kidnapped and forced into indentured servitude.
>>849793
Ireland was in practice a plantation colony for the british, native catholics were removed from the most productive lands in the north and given to anglo-irish protestants. It was ethnical cleansing if not outright genocide
>>849232
>being related to slave owners
Holy shit, that must suck. Sorry about that.
>they were also holocausted
>>849896
>if you want to claim that the irish in ireland were slaves or treated horribly by the british then do that
At no point in my life have I.
>but don't claim that
1. I have never made that claim.
2. How do you know that the claim you're making (black slaves were treated worse than Irish indentured servants without there being any question) is true, though? I mean, I want evidence. You can't just throw these claims around and expect not to be questioned. I understand that you're probably a PoC but come on, it's 2016, you should have evidence by now.
>>849457
>Honest to fuck if you reinstated indentured servitute today people would be calling it slavery.
no, they'd be calling it marriage. Try telling men who're sent to jail for not paying alimony higher than their total salary that there's no indentured servitude in America
real slavery doesn't allow the slave to retain his essential status as a human being (i.e., killing an indentured servant was murder, killing a slave was property damage), nor does it end after a fixed term.
>>851321
that was their own fault for relying on a single crop.
>>851288
>most productive lands in the north
they weren't the most productive lands until protestants started settling there. The plantations happened because the lords of Ulster rebelled against Elizabeth I (over shit that had more to do with petty dynastic squabbles than English-Irish animosity) and had their lands seized in punishment, not because the English were hungry for Catholic land.
no only #blm and cucks want to erase it and anything that doesn't give them the biggest victim points. they're literally pulling a "historical revisionism is okay when we do it" thing
>>851607
Even if they'd used different varieties of potato they'd probably have been allright. But god forbid an Irishman should take responsibility for his own misfortune instead of blaming it on the English
>>849457
Well, by your line of argument, every single U.S. president has been Adolf Hitler.
Imp indentured servitude and factory work was much more hazardous and extreme than slavery. Also half of Ireland's population was killed off by the blight which would have killed a ton less people without anti-Irish racism in England driving policy which made the famine much worse
BEGORRAH THEY MADE SLAVES OF US TO BE SURE!!
>>851607
They relied on a single crop because the introduction of the potato meant that landlords forced them onto smaller plots and less fertile plots. Ireland was a net exporter of food during every year of the famine.
>>851315
He is also related to slaves, so it evens out.
>>851658
> Ireland was a net exporter of food during every year of the famine.
source
![1_cKiexhdxl7at8Pc1Zhm6SA[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/99PHUle.jpg "1_cKiexhdxl7at8Pc1Zhm6SA[1].jpg")
>>851626
>they're literally pulling a "historical revisionism is okay when we do it" thing
but the people that are revising history are the ones that claim that the irish were slaves in the colonies and they were treated worse than the blacks.
>>851701
http://ighm.org/exports-in-famine-times/
http://www.usbornefamilytree.com/irishfoodexports.htm
>>851718
Who's actually claiming that? Is there evidence to the contrary? Why is this a debate worth having in the first place? The fact that six million Jews were not killed in the holocaust, but rather a smaller number, doesn't decrease the scope of the Holocaust.
>>849212
>slavery is our card how dare you try to claim anyone else had a difficult time in america you racist!
Fucking black people.
>>849896
>not many, just some
The article mentions 600 white being captured over like 5 years.
![1_ykD13vyoRxi_BYM4_pLqLQ[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MK6Kk9O.jpg "1_ykD13vyoRxi_BYM4_pLqLQ[1].jpg")
>>851743
>Who's actually claiming that?
most of the people that bring up the Irish slave myth.
>Is there evidence to the contrary?
yes, if you read the first few links posted in the thread you would see the contrary evidence.
>The fact that six million Jews were not killed in the holocaust, but rather a smaller number, doesn't decrease the scope of the Holocaust.
except this isn't 'well the 6 million number is wrong, only 2 million were genocided' it's more like 'there was no plan to exterminate the jews and the holocoust didn't happen'
>>851766
...These people do know there was 21 acts of parliament giving economic restitution to the Irish people, right?
![1_TUQlZ4E-jg46NwZJV5i9lA[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/IY1i8cj.jpg "1_TUQlZ4E-jg46NwZJV5i9lA[1].png")
>>851783
was this for their supposed enslavement in the colonies?
>>849406
>woman supporting foreign immigration and calling the people who lose their jobs to it big meanies while herself being unemployed
Things never change
>>851792
>Wew and you wonder why we're not taking you seriously
not him but after reading his post a few times over I don't believe he's claiming that, he's pointing out the fact that indentured servitude is by no means slavery and that there is no evidence to support the claim that the irish people were slaves in america.
>>851732
The only thing those sources say is that a lot of food was exported. It doesn't mean that Ireland was a net exporter though, because Ireland also imported huge quantities of food during this period, which your sources don't mention.
Generally Ireland exported higher-end goods - meat, livestock, butter, higher quality wheat - and then imported cheaper foodstuffs. Four times as much wheat was imported as was exported, for example. If the exports to England had been stopped, the Irish economy would have collapsed, meaning no more imports as Ireland wouldn't have the money to buy them. England wasn't just draining resources out of Ireland and providing nothing in return - every gram of food taken off the island was paid for. Stopping imports might have provided some temporary relief, but the economic effect would have been devastating and only deepened Ireland's misery in the long term. At least, that was the government's logic at the time - I don't have the numbers to know one way or the other, and I doubt anyone has (Irish historians looking at the subject tend to concentrate on the subject of exports and ignore the imports factor). But it's worth considering - certainly, Ireland was hugely reliant on trade with England for capital. Quite apart from the imports issue, at that point capital was becoming more critical than ever as farming rapidly industrialised, and money was needed to invest in new equipment.
>>851820
Yes. This is an accurate assesment. The problem is that it was paid to the landlords, and absentee landlordism was rife at the time. So it is entirely possible that a shipment of beef would leave Ireland, arrive in London port, and then money would trade hands between two persons living in London, with none being sent back to Ireland. While there has been recent evaluations on the grain trade into and out of Ireland, Ireland was still a net exporter as measured in monetary value.
If that capital was actually used for the alleviation of the famine, it would have ameliorated the worst effects.
>>851792
>Why didn't you just say non-white
I thought PoC was what non-whites liked to be called. Sorry I can't keep up with your ever-shifting vocabulary.
>>851792
>Why didn't you just say non-white
Im on the most PC board 4chan has ever seen I didn't want to offend the reddi-I mean anons here
>>851852
> and absentee landlordism was rife at the time
> then money would trade hands between two persons living in London,
this is an exaggeration. It might have been more true in the 18th century, when the confiscations after the anti-Williamite rebellion were still fresh and the anti-catholic laws were at their height. But by the time of the great famine, some estimates put absenteeism at a third. Even the higher estimates say that at least half of landlords lived on their estates. The fact is that the history of the famine was written by the Irish, and they have always preferred the national myth that all oppression was done by the occupying English, laughing at the impoverished irish from their mansions in london, rather than the reality that landlords in Ireland - be they Catholic or Protestant, resident or absentee - were unusually callous even by the fairly relaxed standards of the 19th century. Even the famously demonised Trevelyan wrote letter after letter to his masters in London complaining about the lack of social responsibility displayed by the irish aristocracy.
>>851911
i thought I was the only one who'd noticed that this is basically just /leftypol/
>>854133
It isn't, /leftypol/ pretends it is while /pol/ fights the good fight and tries to preserve the Republic. In fact, more people here hate Stalin and grudgingly approve of Pinochet than vice versa.
