Will the Protestant Reformation be seen as the downfall of Western Civilization?
>Catholic Church plays pivotal role rebuilding Europe after fall of Rome
>becomes deeply engrained in Western Culture
>Protestant Reformation happens due to church corruption
>new branches convert the pious by pointing out how irreligious and corrupt church officials had become
>pissing match ensues between Protestants and Catholics to see who was the most Christian
>Catholic church, which had long endorsed good scientific discoveries, starts to hesitate, afraid of looking less Christian for not literally interpreting the Bible like the protestants do
>as science progresses, the churches look more and more backwards, pushing a rift between religion and science
>every charlatan and rube can start a new branch in the Protestant system, furthering the stereotype
>the religious become seen as either dumb bible-thumpers, or would-be prophets trying to get rich
>evangelical movements respond to growing degeneracy and irreligiousness in the West by trying to legislate their morality on everybody
>majority of Western society is in the full on hedonist stages in the fall of its Civilization
Now don't get me wrong, the church was absolutely corrupt and something had to happen, but it seems that once the floodgates opened and anybody was allowed to interpret old and metaphorical holy works however they saw fit, there was only one outcome.
>And since I cannot pour faith into their hearts, I cannot nor should I, force anyone to have faith. That is God's work alone, who causes faith to live in the heart...We should preach the Word, but the results must be left solely to God's good pleasure."
-Martin Luther
The difference between Rome and the Reformers was the difference between coercion and liberty.
>>847909
Not saying Lither didn't have good points, and the church certainly did some very bad things. I'm more interested in talking about how it was the Protestant Reformation that allowed Christianity to turn into how its seen today, i.e. the evangelical US churches.
>>847909
>Prepare to type up a serious response
>See a Jack Chick tract
>Stop
Even if that's true, coercion and liberty are not so much a dichotomy as a dialectic
>>847938
I think the overriding point is that the Roman empire was a distortion of the gospel. So, far from spreading Christianity, it spread the false gospel of salvation by works and salvation by statism.
The doctrine of looking inside oneself for righteousness was the impetus for the statism of the medeival period. We see this in other religions that follow an internal grace theory, like the church-state empire of Islam..
>>847949
>this is what protestards actually believe
Frogposters are the downfall of chan civilization.
>>847880
>Catholic church, which had long endorsed good scientific discoveries, starts to hesitate, afraid of looking less Christian for not literally interpreting the Bible like the protestants do
>as science progresses, the churches look more and more backwards, pushing a rift between religion and science
This didn't actually happen and the second line is a myth made up during the "Enlightenment" that is still stuck in people's heads.
>>848002
Newtons ground breaking scientific work would never have been published in a catholic run theocracy,see Galilleo and Brunos fate.
To be fair the Church had kind of turned into corrupt shit ever since it returned to Rome from Avignon. Also there had already been widespread heresies before, the difference was that this time the Church and France no longer had the capacity to wipe it out.
The downfall of the West begins in 1350, with the Hundred Years War and the Plague, that's what fucked everything up.
>>848006
Bruno was an insane cult leader who has nothing to do with anything, and Galileo's work was published, he just got into trouble because said work personally insulted the Pope.
Also much of the groundbreaking work commonly attributed to Galileo and Newton was actually taught at Catholic universities in the Middle Ages.
>>848006
Are you saying it's the Church's fault Galileo died of fever?
>>848006
The Galileo meme came about because he refused to stop teaching it as the scientific truth. The Church thought it was a sound theory and gave him leave to teach it at universities as a such, but it couldn't be proven with the equipment they had at the time, so it wasn't officially endorsed by the church. Galileo kept teaching it as the truth and was a dick about it, and the church was trying to save face against Protestant memery.
>>848002
Not sure what you're trying to say here, clarify pls
>>848028
No im saying its the churches fault his books were banned and he was imprisoned for the rest of his life for being a free thinking scientist.
>>847880
>Catholic Church plays pivotal role rebuilding Europe
Is that what you call torturing and burning anyone who followed the native religions?
>>848083
>what is the university system
>what is the preservation of all knowledge of antiquity
>what is the literal taming of the countryside in undeveloped parts of Europe by monks
>etc.
(You)
>>848083
Do you even know how Europe was converted you idiot?
>>848095
Duh
Through war and genocide of peaceful native pagan populations.
>>848091
>Retreat to monasteries
>Flagellation
>Sit on pole for a year
The Dark ages were caused by these "pious" people, who were too busy navel gazing to put any energy into progress
>>848111
>dark ages
Shitposter, pls go.
>>848107
Except that's not a meme, it was forced sometimes. They would even kidnap the sons of pagan kings and threaten to torture them if they didn't convert their people.
>pagans
>peaceful
I'll agree with you on that. The land was not peaceful and tamed back then as it is now, so it's justified. But being a murderous bigot cult never is.
>>848116
I have a sense you like to be pegged
>>848036
Galileo also, as a layman in theology, was insisting on interpreting Scripture according to unproven Copernican heliocentrism. Which certainly did not gain him friends within the Church.
>>848121
SHUD UB GRISTGUCK :-DDD LISTEN TO UR ANDSEBSTORS DEY ARE SBEAGING IN UR BLUD :-DDD BAGANIISM IS FROM DE EARF OUR SAGRED DIRT :-DDD VARG DOLD ME ALL ABOUD ID HE IS A BRILLIAND SGOLAR AND HIGSTORIAN :-DDDD
>>848121
>pagans
>peaceful
what
>Protestant Reformation happens due to church corruption
wrong, Luther didn't do what he did because of this, this was one of the reasons but this is in no part the main one.
please stop spreading lies
>>848135
They weren't, but as a christcuck you're the pot calling the kettle a nigger.
Was Martin Luther autistic? I can't imagine any other reason why someone wouldn't be Catholic.
>>848107
>>848083
Butthurt Saxon detected.
>>848161
>babby learned a new word today
proud of u, champ
>>847880
Yes. The SJW today is simply the Reformation taking place in the modern world. Protestantism itself wouldn't kill Western civilization but it will kill Christianity.
>>848175
I think he was. I'm not even using autistic as an insult, I've skimmed over some of his work and history and he seemed kind of autistic.
>>848149
So what was the reason then, friend?
![2016-02-20T005819Z_1_LYNXNPEC1J00O_RTROPTP_3_EUROPE-MIGRANTS[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wFlirxK.jpg "2016-02-20T005819Z_1_LYNXNPEC1J00O_RTROPTP_3_EUROPE-MIGRANTS[1].jpg")
It's not the protestants per se, it's the germans.
For everything good the meds or brits come up with, the german comes with means to corrupt it and destroy it.
>>848363
>corrupt it
Nah, the Germans don't do that.
France creates
Britain corrupts
Germany destroys
>>848194
<File: howdy germanic servants.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY
I have a theory about the church. God may have had the Catholic church as his chosen for a while, but just like he abounded the Jews as his chosen when he was unhappy with them he also abounded the Catholic church.
I beleive God is actually working against the Catholic church right now. He has sent his destroying angel. Napeleon was God's chosen. God also arranged for the pedophiles to enter his church and for it to become an agent of Marxism: much like how when he abounded the Jews he allowed their enemies to take over everything.
>>848474
Choseness is neutral, you can be chosen to give the good example or the opposite.
>>848363
This desu, the Constant Continentals are the source of the evil.
>>848474
Nice bait Marty.
>>848623
fixed your picture
>>848721
>stab wound
>not beating with a hammer/driving a nail with theses attached
6/10 is best I can do
>>847880
The Avignon Papacy did far more long-lasting damage to the Roman Catholic Church's image and means of governance more than any other event. For nearly 100 years the Papacy couldn't get its shit together, held hostage by the Kings of France. When the Papacy is printing so many Bulls that it can't even keep up with the shit it's spewing, no one is going to try and decipher what all the nonsense means. A lack of solidarity within the church's highest echelons allowed the entire church to be held hostage.
>>847880
rampant agnosticism was unavoidable anyway with the advancement of public education and awareness
>>848741
No, it was unavoidable from rampant smugness and pride that came from having a piece of paper saying you studied X for 3 years.
Protestantism is retarded
>herp derp I'm an illiterate retard and will only find salvation if I read the holy book which I can't read
>>848735
What, do you mean not literally crucifying the Church?.
>>848721
So suicide then?
>YFW you remember Luther never wanted multiple Christian denominations and just wanted the Catholic Church to get its shit together
>YFW you realize had everything gone his way, the Lutheran Church would've been the Catholic Church
>YFW you realize memeing him as the destroyer of Catholicism is the exact opposite of who he was and set out to be
>>849265
pedophiles can never be changed anon.
>>848741
implying Augustine, Boethius, Thomas Aquinas and the overwhelming majority of western philosophers to this day were not 'educated' or 'aware'.
>>848474
The catholic church was corrupt and pagan from its origins in Babylon to this day.
>>849265
Luther was a catholic friar who couldn't keep his mouth shut about the evils of the papacy. They threw people like him out, and now nobody inside dares say the pope has no clothes.
>>849304
>>849271
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/13/us/abuse-by-clergy-is-not-just-a-catholic-problem.html?pagewanted=all
https://www.schmidtandclark.com/lutheran-sexual-abuse-molestation
http://www.thelutheran.org/article/article.cfm?article_id=8572
http://stopbaptistpredators.org/article07/child_sex_abuse_by_protestant_clergy.html
http://reformation.com/CSA/lutheranabuse.html
http://www.opolaw.com/first-lutheran-church-of-carson-child-sex-abuse-scandal-case-update
>pedo clergy is only a Catholic issue
I know I have a speck in my eye dude, that's why I'm holding this bottle of saline and prying my eyelids open for application as we speak. What's more concerning is you are yelling at me about it while there's a 2x4 lodged in yours that you don't even seem to notice.
>>849333
Love me some Beavis.
>>849336
Not only.
Just most obviously, most egregiously, most systemic, most covered up, and most denied.
>>849304
>t. Alabaster Hill-slop
>muh "Dos Babylawns!"
Yeah you just keep spouting that drivel and let the real archeologists study ancient civilizations.
>>849367
Archaeologists having what to do with Mystery Babylon, again?
>>849361
>Just most obviously, most egregiously, most systemic, most covered up, and most denied
So why does no one seem to want to talk about the Protestants doing it?
Feels like you guys just really want to cast the first stone.
>>849367
If you don't like Hislop, read Dave Hunt's "A Woman Rides The Beast".
Or not, and stay ignorant. Your choice. Oh, but you don't make good choices, do you kid.
>>849388
Most people's churches don't have enforced celibacy, and most churches don't have tortured homosexuals signing up to be clergy in a vain effort to forestall their depravity.
I've never heard of any other church moving known pedophiles to new areas to re-offend, as the Catholics have done, repeatedly. And I have never heard of any other church not allowing law enforcement to gain records of such vile acts.
>>849336
See how there is no Ortodoxy? Pope is corrupted one after all and his heretics isn't that better.
>>849387
They actually study Babylon, Babylonian ruins, ancient records of Babylon and have been on field trips to actual sites in what is now Iraq.
Hill-slop never went there and applied to framework of then-recent history of Protestant sects along with his personal flavor of Protestantism, would make Protestantism, or any Christian church really, just as much repurposed Babylonian paganism as he claimed Catholicism is.
Now kindly go inhale the exhaust of a tractor.
>>849432
So, you have absolutely zero idea of the notion that there are spiritual entities over temporal entities, and when I say Rome became Babylon, you point to Rome in Italy, and Babylon in Iraq, and say "no".
kek
You're a special sort of snowflake, aren't you sport.
Babylon is a system. Babylon is an economic system, and Babylon is a spiritual system. The economic and spiritual system started in Babylon moved to Rome.
There are some who think actual Babylon will be rebuilt; I'm not one of them. Peter calling Rome "Babylon" suffices for me.
>>849400
You realize Celibacy in the Catholic Church isn't a doctrinal mandate and is just a tradition OF THE ROMAN RITE (trust me, that distinction matters) rooted in the idea that if he doesn't have a family to take care of, a priest can focus more on his church.
It's entirely possible to change that. I wouldn't say it's highly probable but it IS possible. The Eastern Catholic Rite is fully in unity with Rome and they allow married Priests because that's part of the Eastern Rite's tradition.
And yeah, Boston was horrible. But why would the Vatican endorse Spotlight if they didn't want to address it?
>>849159
>Rome
>the Church
>>849444
>Babylon is a system. Babylon is an economic system, and Babylon is a spiritual system.
No its not. It was a city with an empire that conquered Israel and they were so upset about it they were forever comparing anything they didn't like with Babylonian
did he really nail them to the church door or is it just a major meme?
>>849468
You realize it's just to keep what little money dead priests have in the church, right?
That married Peter, with children, was not some celibate eunuch?
>>848175
>pay money to the church and you spend less time in purgatory
>actually defending this utter tripe
lol I'm Protestant and I don't mind a big Church body but this Pope mane...
>>849472
Gee, almost as if Babylon stands opposed to Jerusalem.
Gee, almost as if Rome stands opposed to Jerusalem.
>>849401
That's because I explicitly googled "Lutheran sex abuse."
Try replacing it with "Orthodox Christian" and get back to me on that.
>>849265
Lets be honest now.
Luther only wanted to dick a nun who later married and loot catholic propriety in germany with his fellow big guys.
>>849472
Heck, under Babylon the Jews called Babylon "Egypt."
Protestants explain,
Perhaps the most important aspect of the rule of faith is that it gives us what the Church conceived to be ‘the main body of truth’ (to use Irenaeus’ phrase). The Scriptures are, after all, a body of documents testifying to God’s activity towards men in Christ. They are not a rule of faith, nor a list of doctrines, nor a manual of the articles of a Christian man’s belief. In the rule of faith we have a key to what the Church thought the Scriptures came to, where it was, so to speak, that their weight fell, what was their drift. This interpretation of their drift was itself tradition, a way of handling the Scriptures, a way of living in them and being exposed to their effect, which, while not an original part of the Christian Gospel, not itself the paradosis par excellence, had been developed from the Gospel itself, from its heart, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit as an essential part of the existence of the Christian faith in history…
We cannot recognize the rule of faith as original tradition, going back by oral continuity independently of Scripture to Christ and his apostles. But we can recognize it as the tradition in which the Church was interpreting Scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and as such claim it as an essential ingredient of historical Christianity. (R.P.C. Hanson, Tradition In The Early Church, pp. 128, 129)
>>849501
Why do Catholics think all Christians are Lutherans? Lutherans are basically just Catholic Lite.
>>849476
No he did.
It was a practical means of getting a guy's attention to read a text you wanted him to read for the time period, it's not like he could tape them to the door, stick them in the mailbox or slip them under the wiper blades on the Popemobile.
>>849526
>implying the body of the church isn't just all of the people who are united in their faith in Christ
Big difference to the Catholic church, and the catholic church
>>849544
The point Hanson made disproves Sola Scriptura since Tradition is taken to be the key to knowing what Scripture is by the Church.
The Church is all of who that have Faith in Christ and those who have it don't disagree on matters of faith. Oh wait, Protestants don't do this!
In fact none of the Church Fathers are Sola Scripturists which further adds to the embarrassment of Protestantism
>>849492
your goal post is moving away at the speed of light
>>849526
Some men enjoy the freedom of being Christians, and some men want to be bound under rules like papists.
Some men have the Holy Spirit inside them, advising them, like Christians, and some men need men in authority over them to tell them what to do. Like papists.
>>849481
What does that even mean?
Also, Eastern Rite, just as valid as the Latin/Roman/Western Rite, they have married priests because it's part of their tradition.
>>849564
Complete and total lie. The scriptures speak for themselves.
>>849564
Are you that UK furfag I keep having to throw early church father sola scriptura quotes at?
>>849581
No wonder Protestants can't agree with each other. You know who else can't? The Gnostic heretics the Church Fathers like Irenaeus faced
>>849564
>and those who have it don't disagree on matters of faith
Lol what the fuck? As if this doesn't happen within churches, let alone amongst denominations.
I don't mind a bit of church tradition, but it's inevitable that there will be disagreements.
>>849570
Gee, almost as if Rome can be both Rome and Babylon, at the same time. Almost as if the Vatican can be the Whore of Babylon. Almost as if Roman paganism can be Mystery Babylon.
Your intentional misunderstandings aren't very persuasive.
>>849585
I already debunked your strawman of all the Church Fathers. I even gave links to various scholarly sources that practically say otherwise.
And here I do the same once more.
Loser.
>>849580
It means that it's all about the money, and that it's always been about the money.
Priest has no family, no recognized heirs, everything he has when he dies goes right back to the church.
Truly Rome is the City of Whores and Orphans.
>>849492
>Gee it's almost as if lots of people have been in that position of "opposed to Jerusalem"
>Gee it's almost as Jews could say everyone who calls Jesus the Messiah are "opposed to Jerusalem" and start making Protestans tug at their necklines
>>849589
Anyone who agrees with the Word of God agrees with each other. The gnostics are, in the scripture, of the devil. Real tough argument to make. Point to the bible.
>>849598
Your vile nature seeps through every post you make.
>>849514
Really? That's new info to me.
You're not deriving this from that Monty Python skit are you?
>>849598
In other words, the apostolic Tradition defined by Irenaeus and Tertullian is simply the teaching of Scripture. It was Irenaeus who stated that while the Apostles at first preached orally, their teaching was later committed to writing (the Scriptures), and the Scriptures had since that day become the pillar and ground of the Churchs faith. His exact statement is as follows:
"We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith."
>>849590
You mean such as on the issues of, Baptism, Sola Fide, Free will, Eucharist, Worship, Age of the Earth, Atonement, Predestination, End times and so on and so on?
Yeah they so totally agree with each other those Protheads. No wonder Calvin, Luther and Zwingli all so totally have the same view of the Eucharist and Sola Fide and Baptism.
>>849598
Cyril of Jerusalem (the bishop of Jerusalem in the mid 4th century).
He states in explicit terms that if he were to present any teaching to these catechumens which could not be validated from Scripture, they were to reject it.
This fact confirms that his authority as a bishop was subject to his conformity to the written Scriptures in his teaching. The following excerpts are some of his statements on the final authority of Scripture from these lectures.
"This seal have thou ever on thy mind; which now by way of summary has been touched on in its heads, and if the Lord grant, shall hereafter be set forth according to our power, with Scripture proofs. For concerning the divine and sacred Mysteries of the Faith, we ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures."
>>849564
>The point Hanson made disproves Sola Scriptura since Tradition is taken to be the key to knowing what Scripture is by the Church.
But then how do you starts thousand of memecults if you're bound to church tradition?
>>849598
Gregory of Nyssa held to sola Scriptura
Gregory of Nyssa also enunciated this principle. He stated:
"The generality of men still fluctuate in their opinions about this, which are as erroneous as they are numerous. As for ourselves, if the Gentile philosophy, which deals methodically with all these points, were really adequate for a demonstration, it would certainly be superfluous to add a discussion on the soul to those speculations. But while the latter proceeded, on the subject of the soul, as far in the direction of supposed consequences as the thinker pleased, we are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings."
>>849530
This thread started mostly on and stayed mostly around Luther himself, so I focused on Lutherans in that rebuttal.
Also I'd say High Church Anglicans might be closer to Catholic Lite. Lutherans are to Catholics as Dr Pepper is to Classic Coca Cola.
>>849598
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book”
—Revelation 22:18-19
>>849615
I have already debunked this as well by explaining the concept of Regula Fidei and how the statement itself is simply an expression of the Coincidence view which is not Sola Scriptura.
Ironically of course, Irenaeus later in that same work goes on to use Tradition to argue against the Gnostics through the concept of Apostolic Succession.
Oh right, Protestants aren't even sure whether that is valid or not!
ALL of the Church Fathers are on with it in contrast.
>>849628
Yeah, disgusting, bubbly and brown.
>>849592
>le whore of babylon may may
Is literally like some leftists calling anyone they don't like Hitler.
>>849608
Good, guess we now can cross out Protestants from being those who agree with Jesus.
Filthy book worshiper.
>>849592
>Vatican can be the Whore of Babylon
Let me ask you a question, why is it called "the Vatican?"
>>849637
The rule of faith (Latin: regula fidei) or analogy of faith (analogia fidei) is a phrase rooted in the Apostle Paul's admonition to the Christians in Rome in the Epistle to the Romans 12:6, which says, "We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith." (NIV, 1984) The last phrase, "in proportion to his faith" is in Greek kατὰ ἀναλογίαν τῆς πίστεως ("analogy of faith"). In Romans 12:6 this refers to one of three possible ideas: the body of Christian teachings, the person's belief and response to the grace of God, or to the type of faith that can move mountains.[1] This phrase in Romans 12 becomes the root for later usage of the term by such Early Christian writers as Tertullian. Tertullian links it to the core set of Christian teachings, i.e.:
Let our ‘seeking,’ therefore be in that which is our own, and from those who are our own, and concerning that which is our own, — that, and only that, which can become an object of inquiry without impairing the rule of faith.
GEE, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT CATHOLIC TRADITION.
GEE, WHAT HAS CATHOLIC TRADITION GOTTEN US?
Oh, yeah. 68,000,000 murdered. Purgatory. Limbo. Eucharist. Idolatry. Infallible popes. Vicars of Christ. Penance. Confessionals. Inquisitions. Marian worship. Cannibalism. Vampirism. Many, many, many other evils.
Papists. Never.
>>849592
>Mystery Babylon
Where's the secular archeological evidence for this then
>>849646
If you call Hitler, Hitler, is he Hitler?
The Roman Catholic Church is Mystery Babylon; Rome is Babylon; the Vatican is the Whore of Babylon.
>>849647
What do you know about Jesus that is not in the bible?
Go ahead and make a list.
>>849655
Because it was built on a hill of dead men's bones.
>>849659
>Mystery
>Secular
It's like you're not even trying.
>>849658
>68000000 murdered
This is /his/, not /pullshitoutofyourass/
>>849614
First lines on memepedia.
>Spouse(s) Katharina von Bora
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharina_von_Bora#Life_as_a_nun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharina_von_Bora#Marriage_to_Luther
He was 42 and she 26 when they married.
>>849599
>Priest has no family, no recognized heirs, everything he has when he dies goes right back to the church.
So basically he was just renting space?
Also, Western/Roman/Latin Rite Catholic priests had families, just not wives and children of their own because it was part of their liturgical tradition. Or are you implying priest just manifest out of the ether and a last will and testament can't give stuff to your best bud from way back?
>>849673
In “Romanism in the light of prophecy and history: its final downfall, and the triumph of the church of Christ” [New York, American and Foreign Christian Union, 1854, p. 58], Brownlee quotes a figure of 68,500,000 killed by the Papacy, composed of 50 million Christians in Europe, 15 million Indians in the New World, 1.5 million Jews in Spain and elsewhere, and 2 million Moors in Spain. He then writes,
And, O merciful Father in heaven, this does not include the millions of their own people, and her enemies, which fell in her crusades, and wars, and massacres! Here thirty millions and a half would be a moderate calculation! Thus, Rome papal has hurried into eternity A HUNDRED MILLION OF THE HUMAN RACE, by her bloody religion!
>>849675
It is certain that her father sent the five-year-old Katharina to the Benedictine cloister in Brehna in 1504 for education. This is documented in a letter from Laurentius Zoch to Martin Luther, written on October 30, 1531. This letter is the only evidence for Katharina von Bora's time spent within the monastery.[6] At the age of nine she moved to the Cistercian monastery of Marienthron (Mary's Throne) in Nimbschen, near Grimma, where her maternal aunt was already a member of the community.[7] Katharina is well documented at this monastery in a provision list of 1509/10.[8]
After several years of religious life, Katharina became interested in the growing reform movement and grew dissatisfied with her life in the monastery. Conspiring with several other nuns to flee in secrecy, she contacted Luther and begged for his assistance.
On Easter Eve, 4 April 1523, Luther sent Leonhard Köppe, a city councilman of Torgau and merchant who regularly delivered herring to the monastery. The nuns successfully escaped by hiding in Köppe's covered wagon among the fish barrels, and fled to Wittenberg. A local student wrote to a friend: 'A wagon load of vestal virgins has just come to town, all more eager for marriage than for life. God grant them husbands lest worse befall."[9]
>>849684
Luther at first asked the parents and relations of the refugee nuns to admit them again into their houses, but they declined to receive them, possibly as this was participating in a crime under canon law.[10] Within two years, Luther was able to arrange homes, marriages, or employment for all of the escaped nuns—except for Katharina. She first was housed with the family of Philipp Reichenbach, the city clerk of Wittenberg, and later went to the home of Lucas Cranach the Elder and his wife, Barbara. Katharina had a number of suitors, including Wittenberg University alumnus Jerome (Hieronymus) Baumgärtner (1498–1565) of Nuremberg and a pastor, Kaspar Glatz of Orlamünde, but none of the proposed matches resulted in marriage. Finally, she told Luther’s friend and fellow reformer, Nikolaus von Amsdorf, that she would be willing to marry only Luther or himself.
Martin Luther eventually married Katharina on June 13, 1525, before witnesses including Justus Jonas, Johannes Bugenhagen, and Barbara and Lucas Cranach the Elder.[11] There was a wedding breakfast the next morning with a small company, but two weeks later, on June 27, they held a more formal public ceremony which was presided over by Bugenhagen.[12] Von Bora was 26 years old, Luther 41. The couple took up residence in the "Black Cloister" (Augusteum), the former dormitory and educational institution for Augustinian friars studying in Wittenberg, given as a wedding gift by the reform-minded John Frederick, Elector of Saxony, who was the son and nephew of Luther's protectors, John, Elector of Saxony and Frederick III, Elector of Saxony.[13]
>>849677
I doubt any such arrangement would be honored by the church.
>>849691
Katharina immediately took on the task of administering and managing the vast holdings of the monastery, breeding and selling cattle, and running a brewery in order to provide for their family and the steady stream of students who boarded with them and visitors seeking audiences with her husband. In times of widespread illness, Katharina operated a hospital on site, ministering to the sick alongside other nurses. Luther called her the "boss of Zulsdorf," after the name of the farm they owned, and the "morning star of Wittenberg" for her habit of rising at 4 a.m. to take care of her various responsibilities.
In addition to her busy life tending to the lands and grounds of the monastery, Katharina bore six children: Hans (7 June 1526 – 27 October 1575), Elizabeth (10 December 1527 – 3 August 1528) who died at eight months, Magdalena (4 May 1529 – 20 September 1542) who died at thirteen years, Martin (9 November 1531 – 4 March 1565), Paul (28 January 1533 – 8 March 1593), and Margarete (17 December 1534 – 1570); in addition she suffered a miscarriage on 1 November 1539. The Luthers also raised four orphan children, including Katharina's nephew, Fabian.[14]
>>849626
Except he didn't. This is simply Prima Scriptura in action and reference to philosophical issues.
>"[F]or it is enough for proof of our statement, that the TRADITION has come down to us from our fathers, handed on, like some inheritance, by succession from the apostles and the saints who came after them. They, on the other hand, who change their doctrines to this novelty, would need the support of arguments in abundance, if they were about to bring over to their views, not men light as dust, and unstable, but men of weight and steadiness: but so long as their statement is advanced without being established, and without being proved, who is so foolish and so brutish as to account the teaching of the evangelists and apostles, and of those who have successively shone like lights in the churches, of less force than this undemonstrated nonsense?" (Against Eunomius,4:6).
>Instead, the sheep stray from nourishing pastures, that is, from the traditions of the fathers, lodge outside the fold, and are dispersed throughout alien pastures. When the fruit of such a teaching brings about this situation, the form of a wolf now hiding under a sheep’s skin will show itself.
>Let us now examine the teachings of Apollinarius of Syria, to see whether they increase or decrease the flock, gather the dispersed or scatter those who have been gathered, and whether or not they support or manifest hostility towards the teachings of the fathers.
>. . . For who does not know that God appeared to us in the flesh? According to pious tradition he is incorporeal, invisible, uncomposite, both was and is boundless and uncircumscribed, is present everywhere, penetrates all creation and has manifested himself in our human condition.
(Against Apollinarius)
>>849691
Kind of a funny parallel between him and King Henry.
>>849703
That says absolutely nothing against sola scriptura.
I'm starting to think you're illiterate.
>>849640
More a fan of lighter fruity sodas like lemon-lime, orange and grape?
>>849683
Luther and the thirty year war killed more germans 7.5 million than hitler did in ww2 7.3 million.
Lutheranism is literally worse than nazism.
>>849713
Ugh.
Sodas make me retch. Something in 'em I just can't tolerate.
>>849658
The teaching of the Church is by definition, Tradition.
That's why the Regula Fidei presented by Irenaeus is in the form of a creed which lays out a summation of what the Church teaches.
That is not Scripture but what the Church says Scripture says
No where in that paragraph did it even imply that the Regula Fidei is Scripture itself. It is "Christian teaching".
Only if it is Scripture itself would the Regula Fidei becomes Sola Scriptura but this is ridiculous since a guide to a book is not the book itself!
>>849670
I was reffering to etymology in your craycray views but okay, what is the precedence of this hill historically being a mass grave?
>>849716
All of those murders are at the hand of the pope. Luther was just a disgruntled catholic to me; I will never meet the man. No Luther, no Hitler.
>>849722
Scripture.
The teachings of true churches are from scriptures.
It's not what some church says the scriptures mean, it's what the scriptures say.
You need to go through some sort of mind control release program.
People have gifts. Not you, but people. Saved people. Those gifts are manifest in those people. Saved people. Not you, but saved people.
The bible is the guide to the bible.
The bible is the guide to the bible.
The bible is the guide to the bible.
The bible is the guide to the bible.
The bible is the guide to the bible.
>>849711
It does since Gregory is appealing to Tradition. Or in this case the use of the Church Fathers before him and Apostolic Succession.
It also refers to the teaching and doctrines of the Church. That is in itself, Tradition and serves as a guideline to what Scripture itself is saying.
Sola Scriptura rejects this sort of appeal to the fathers, especially in the case where one is arguing against heresy since it can only be Scripture Alone.
>>849741
But nowhere did your citation of what the Regula Fidei is even said that.
This is your own blatant assertion.
We see that when your lies are debunked, you can only spew shit
>>849671
If there is no secular record of the sort, then this claim of a Babylonian mystery cult is all hearsay with no tangible evidence in ancient ruins, ancient texts unrelated to any Christian theology and a wealth of respected and well known academic texts that discuss this without seeing through a lens of trying to destroy some fantastical boogeyman.
>>849728
>Get asked question.
>Answer question properly.
>Get called names.
kek
Google vatican built on graveyard, and try not to value ignorance so highly.
>>849622
The stuff that Cyril is teaching and handing over is the Tradition of the Church.
His expression is the confidence he has on the fact that what he teaches isn't at odds with Scripture. Prima Scriptura and even the Coincidence view teaches this for fuck's sake.
>>849745
There is nothing magical, special, or meaningful about "apostolic succession". Being a born again Christian is not contagious.
Nothing against sola scriptura means nothing against sola scriptura.
You're a vile pervert, and defend the Vatican. That's really enough of a proof of what the Vatican is, now, isn't it. A den for all sorts of evil spirits, all sorts of blasphemy, all sorts of abominations.
More from Gregory,
>The argument which you state is something like this: Peter, James, and John, being in one human nature, are called three men: and there is no absurdity in describing those who are united in nature, if they are more than one, by the plural number of the name derived from their nature. If, then, in the above case, custom admits this, and no one forbids us to speak of those who are two as two, or those who are more than two as three, how is it that in the case of our statements of the mysteries of the Faith, though confessing the Three Persons, and acknowledging no difference of nature between them, we are in some sense at variance with our confession, when we say that the Godhead of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is one, and yet forbid men to say “there are three Gods”? The question is, as I said, very difficult to deal with: yet, if we should be able to find anything that may give support to the uncertainty of our mind, so that it may no longer totter and waver in this monstrous dilemma, it would be well: on the other hand, even if our reasoning be found unequal to the problem, we must keep for ever, firm and unmoved, the tradition which we received by succession from the fathers, and seek from the Lord the reason which is the advocate of our faith: and if this be found by any of those endowed with grace, we must give thanks to Him who bestowed the grace; but if not, we shall none the less, on those points which have been determined, hold our faith unchangeably.
(On “Not Three Gods”)
>>849697
Because?
>>849753
You brought up rf, and it has nothing to do with sola scriptura.
Unless your re-defining sola scriptura as "people who believe sola scriptura don't believe anything else in the universe exists."
>>849754
Gee, almost as if secular and spiritual matters were different.
>>849705
So wait, Protestantism is all about not being able to keep it in your pants?
>>849768
Anything not in scriptures is rejected.
sola scriptura.
>>849769
Any appeal to Tradition in arguing for any matter of faith is by definition in opposition to Sola Scriptura since Tradition now takes the form of an authority.
Here in this case, the emphasis on Apostolic Succession and the other Fathers demonstrates even further how he is showing that his stuff isn't novelty. It is ancient and the same as that which had been handed down.
Sola Scriptura by definition doesn't care about this but what Scripture Alone has to say. Tradition is only accepted insofar as it agrees with it or agrees with one's own reading of it.
>>849721
Perhaps it's the corn syrup. Ever try a soda made without HFCS?
>>849768
"This seal have thou ever on thy mind; which now by way of summary has been touched on in its heads, and if the Lord grant, shall hereafter be set forth according to our power, with Scripture proofs. For concerning the divine and sacred Mysteries of the Faith, we ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures."
Did you read it that time, with your eyes open?
>>849776
Because they worship Mammon, greed, and the devil. They're evil.
>>849773
Trinity is in the bible, in form. Not tradition. Traditions of men are anathema to God.
>>847880
>Now don't get me wrong, the church was absolutely corrupt...
"Was".
>>849787
People say this, then they turn around and believe in things like the Trinity, or that evil exists because of free will, or that the snake in Eden was Satan.
Yet not one of these things is in the original Bible, they all come from tradition. Sheer hypocrisy.
>>849784
It's the belief that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Who died for the sins of the world, and rose on the third day.
Everyone who knows that to be true, and can say that out loud, is a Christian.
Christianity is about regaining the life that Adam and Eve lost in the Garden of Eden; it's about transforming into a new creation in Christ Jesus, one that can live with Him in heaven, forever.
>>849787
No dumbass. Sola Scriptura is Scripture is the highest authority and sole one in matters of faith and doctrine.
This means whenever some matter of faith pops up, using Apostolic Succession and the Tradition of the Church becomes pointless and irrelevant until they are shown to be in agreement with Scripture itself, not because it is Tradition and not some new novelty.
>>849778
It doesn't since the Regula Fidei is Tradition.
And Tradition is the teaching of the Church, its interpretation and approach to Scripture. Basically it is the lens to read Scripture.
Sola Scriptura rejects this. The Early Church don't
>>849791
Apostolic succession was handed down by men. And used by men to rule over other men. It has nothing to do with God whatsoever. Neither do the traditions of men.
Nicolatians, all.
>>849792
Hmmm, everything has corn syrup in it. Maybe the coloring? Or maybe the gas? But I do like beer....
>>849784
It's about someone else women and someone else property but don't call them pirates.
>>849816
>Christianity is about....
...rebelling against ancient Jewish bullshit by creating new Jewish bullshit.
>>849814
Gee, I wonder where those things come from:
1 Kings 18
And Elijah came to all the people, and said, “How long will you falter between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.” But the people answered him not a word.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
>>849757
I did.
All I got was one guy's bones (St. Peter, because "You are Πέτρος and upon this πέτρος") and a cemetery that didn't exist prior to 2006.
>>849821
>using Apostolic Succession and the Tradition of the Church becomes pointless
It's always pointless. There are no such things in the Kingdom of God.
>>849821
rf is not tradition, if it's in the scriptures.
You suck at this, kid.
>>849842
Following through with believing and accepting the Jewish Messiah, Christ Jesus, Who is YHWH.
>>849854
The Vatican Necropolis lies under the Vatican City, at depths varying between 5–12 meters below Saint Peter's Basilica. The Vatican sponsored archeological excavations under Saint Peter's in the years 1940–1949 which revealed parts of a necropolis dating to Imperial times.[1] The work was undertaken at the request of Pope Pius XI who wished to be buried as close as possible to Peter the Apostle. It is also home to the Tomb of the Julii, which has been dated to the third or fourth century. The necropolis was not originally one of the underground Catacombs of Rome, but an open air cemetery with tombs and mausolea.
Google better.
>>849806
It's in the Bible by virtue of the Tradition of the Church asserting it from the beginning.
Take the Tradition away and that becomes vague.
>>849795
Again, not incompatible with Prima Scriptura or the doctrine of the material sufficiency of Scripture. Either way, the point Cyril is making is that Tradition does not oppose Scripture as DH Williams, an Evangelical scholar notes,
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zGe62o6HHMoC&pg=PA89&dq=cyril+of+jerusalem+sola+scriptura&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwu4ueycjLAhUFhA8KHZx_CmkQ6AEISTAI#v=onepage&q=cyril%20of%20jerusalem%20sola%20scriptura&f=false
Cyril also says,
>23. It is called Catholic then because it extends over all the world, from one end of the earth to the other; and becauseit teaches universally and completely one and all the doctrines which ought to come to men's knowledge, concerning things both visible and invisible, heavenly and earthly(6); and because it brings into subjection to godliness the whole race of mankind, governors and governed, learned and unlearned; and because it universally treats and heals the whole class of sins, which are committed by soul or body, and possesses in itself every form of virtue which is named, both in deeds and words, and in every kind of spiritual gifts.
Ouch, Protestantism contains contradictory and opposing teachings!
The fact that Cyril himself places Scripture in the context of it and its message being handed down already reeks of Apostolic Succession and Tradition itself. The only difference of course is that this Tradition is one that doesn't function independently of Scripture but proclaims its message and provides a lens to its meaning.
>>849860
The Regula Fidei is the guide to reading Scripture.
A guide and the Scripture is not the same thing but can say the same thing and can be used to illuminate understanding of the other.
A "Companion to Plato" is not the works of Plato himself but a guide to his overall teachings.
This is what the Regula Fidei functions as.
>>849782
Gee, it's almost as if there was a historical Babylon and spiritual Babylon that is only called such just because the historical Babylon were kinda dicks that blew the dickishness of Assyria, Egypt and the Phillistines out of the water in the eyes of ancient Jews and if historical Babylon shaped historical Catholicism then it also shaped historical Protestantism because that's how syncretism and branching schools of theology work!
>>849859
And so is all your dishonest use of the Church Fathers.
>>849862
>with believing and accepting the Jewish Messiah, Christ Jesus, Who is YHWH.
More Jew bullshit.
Just another piece of the same Jew shit sandwich.
You are all essentially LARPers.
>>849797
>they wouldn't allow posthumous redistribution of property via legal document per request of the deceased
>because they worship the physical world are greedy and the physical manifestation of a fallen angel
That's quite a leap bro.
>>849806
>Traditions of men are anathema to God
Word for word quote from Scripture please
>>849816
>not realize I was making a joke
You must be real fun at parties.
>>849833
Actually you can find HFCS free sodas. Pic related is sweetened entirely with Stevia so, while being a different kind of sweet, it won't be corn syrupy sweet like Pepsi.
>>849868
So a "huh, that's neat" moment?
Because catacombs exist all over Europe.
>>849882
Nope. Things in the bible are in the bible.
Prima Scriptura = Mixing Holy with Unholy.
>>849882
Catholic used to mean universal, snake.
>>849890
The scriptures are the guide to reading scriptures. The Holy Spirit is the guide to reading scriptures.
But since the Catholic church has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, they had to assert their own authority.
>>849893
Gee, it's almost as if you're biblically illiterate!
>>849895
I quoted them. I don't care about them. Not one whit. They ate and shit out what I eat and shit out.
>>849910
I'm not role playing my life. I'm living it.
>>849914
They are the Law. They do as they will. They are evil.
>>849920
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
#rekt
>>849922
I'm a hoot.
>>849942
Thanks! I'll try it out.
>>849946
herp derp derp herp derp
>>849782
>people didn't write down spiritual matters
That's how stupid you sound
>>850007
They did. In the bible. The authority for all things holy.
>>850038
You understand the church made the canon, right?
>>849966
>Catholic used to mean universal
>kαθολιkός
How the hell do you change the meaning of a anglicanized Greek word who's original Greek meaning still exists?
>>850047
You understand that the canon is just putting books under one cover, right?
You understand that I think the catholic canon is a joke, right?
>>850049
By repetition. Catholic went from universal to exclusively Roman Catholic. That the universal church, the invisible church, went to "no salvation outside of the Roman Catholic church".
By lies.
>>849978
Gee it's almost as though I never was arguing from a biblical standpoint because I'm more concerned with history than with ideas parotted by paranoid fan fic authors that reputable secular sources discredit like they do with Gerald Massey's claims that Jesus in ALL Christian accounts of him, is just repurposed from Horus.
>>849986
And they don't into Sola Scriptura
>>849961
To know the things, Tradition aids us. This is why there's the material sufficiency of Scripture to begin with and where things are difficult, the Tradition is there to help. Tradition itself is the way to approach the Bible as well.
>>849973
Except of course how it is approached is determined by Tradition. It's meaning is fixed by it and to provide a framework of interpretation.
We all see how your Prottie sola scriptura approach end up, in disaster where the true message of Scripture is impossible to know.
>>849991
>I'm not role playing my life.
Don't you have a big LARP weekend coming up soon, with bunnies, and resurrected corpses, and eggs and shit?
>>850085
>Believes Zeitgeist
>Does not believe the Word of God.
>>850087
But my specific, extra-special brand of perfect Commun- uhm... Christianity has never been tried.
>>850087
All of them are sola scriptura.
Don't you have much, much, much, much, much, much, much bigger problems to deal with?
Like your imminent death, and eternal torment?
>>849994
Okay so you clearly know nothing about the clerical structure of the Catholic Church.
What is a step by step rundown of what goes on at a whatever sect you are Church compared to a step by step run down to how a Catholic Mass is done?
Bonus Round: also include another unrelated Protestant sect's church service run down and the Orthodox church's Order of Mass as well, for funsies.
>>850110
How can you say that when every argument I put forth exposing your lies of the Church Fathers is met with inadequate answers or none at all.
>>849999
And want to know how easy it is to turn that back against the Protestants, especially by going with a rather basic grasp on what "tradition" can mean?
Hint:
It's like pic related
>>850005
>I have no answer for him not believing my paranoid fancies and seeming unfazed
>better spout gibberish
>>848036
>The Galileo meme came about because he refused to stop teaching it as the scientific truth. The Church thought it was a sound theory and gave him leave to teach it at universities as a such, but it couldn't be proven with the equipment they had at the time, so it wasn't officially endorsed by the church. Galileo kept teaching it as the truth and was a dick about it, and the church was trying to save face against Protestant memery.
Holy shit I've been taught the "Galileo meme" for years at school. Do you have any source on your claims so I can read about that?
>>850066
>That the universal church, the invisible church, went to "no salvation outside of the Roman Catholic church
A Catholic Church in France does all the same stuff as one in the Phillipines or Lesotho. That's the concept of Universal Church, jackass.
And if, say, Lutherans, Methodists and "First Chuch of X" guys are all catholic while not being Catholic, how do you explain all the stuff they DON'T agree on not causing them to mutually damn each other through differing TRADITIONS of interpreting scripture?
>>850129
By posting their quotes where normal people can read them.
If it's not in the scriptures, it's out.
That's sola scriptura.
You can't read the bible for yourself, because you don't have the Holy Spirit on your side, and He's necessary. Not some lost demon worshiping bishop. The Holy Spirit.
If you were of God, you would know that you do not mix holy with the unholy. ffs, God took it down to not wearing mixed cloth clothing. You do not mix holy and unholy, because all you end up with is unholy.
And unholy is exactly what the catholic traditions have brought. Unholy abominations like purgatory, limbo, cannibalism, vampirism, demon worshiping, idolatry, penance, confessionals, Marian worship, etc., etc., etc.
The fruits of unholy Catholic traditions are unholy abominations.
>>850137
You must be kidding. The papacy is literally built on traditions and apostolic succession not found in the bible.
Our KJV
Who art in bookshelf
Inken be thy words
Thy Proddies come
Thy text be done
In tongues as it is in megachurches
Our Book of Sovereign James, who art bound in leather,
with iron gall are made thine words, on a press, by no quill of papist monk.
Give us this day our daily division of pronouns between thy and you, and forgive us for considering douay-rheims, as we forgive the papists for denying henry his wife.
And lead us not into the temptations of non-textus-receptus translations, but deliver us from vulgate. For yours are the cords and the vellum and the square set type of gutenberg, forever. Amen.
>>850145
>Everything's built on a graveyard!
Then why didn't you know the Vatican was built on a graveyard?
herp derp derpy herp herp
>>850104
>doesn't read post
>doesn't see I call that Zeitgeist belief by citing how one of one of its forebearers is considered a joke by serious scholars on Egypt and other ancient cultures
>says I think Zeitgeist is factual
>>850175
Yes, the Catholic church. Universal? No. Roman Catholic? Yes.
Scripture speaks for itself.
>>850222
Say you're of God.
Mock the things of God.
>>850225
Anyone who thinks Jesus is an updated Horus myth is citing Zeitgeist.
>>850213
No, that is an insufficient definition.
The correct definition is that it means Scripture Alone is the final arbiter of all matters of Faith. But everytime the Church Fathers use Scripture and affirm its sufficiency, it is also backed by their use of Tradition and affirmation of the antiquity and succession of the Church's doctrines.
That is not Sola Scriptura as other authorities are used in judging matters of faith as we seen in all of the Church Fathers.
Of course, if the Bible is really so clear, why do the Protestant end up in disagreements over matters of faith. On free will, on Baptism, on the Eucharist, On Salvation, On the Atonement, On the NPP, On the Age of the Earth and Universe, On Predestination...etc
That is truly an ugly abomination
>>850245
Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice.
Lie, lie, lie. It's all you do.
>>850245
The
Roman
Catholic
Church
is
an
Abomination
before
God.
>>850159
Revisionist garbage. Church dindu nuttin.
All you need to "prove" heliocentricity is retrograde motion. You can see every other geocentric workaround to retrograde motion is convoluted bullshit. It was seen as absolutely heterodox and against conventional understanding of scripture at the time.
This "it's only a theory" is bullshit proddies still do with evolution, and trying to teach creationism and ban evolution in schools.
>>850261
That's basically what I said about the definition of Sola Scriptura.
The Church Fathers of course deny this given their use of tradition and appeal to apostolic succession.
The Bible is the highest authority but that authority is mediated by Tradition.
>>850271
What disturbs me is that you're most likely serious. A regular shitposter wouldn't be this well researched
What hole did you crawl out of anyway? Is there a whole site full of idiots like you?
>>850290
That's not well researched. It's badly researched
What's the point of sola scriptura if you end up with dozens of conflicting sects?
>>850175
>A Catholic Church in France does all the same stuff as one in the Phillipines or Lesotho.
>>squander tithings on church leaders and church property instead of the poor
>>make people believe that their actions actually matter to an invisible entity
>>molest children
Same the world over, I'd imagine.
>>850294
In the sense that they did any kind of research I mean. You don't go into this much depth without being legit, or hideously autistic
>>850220
Sola Scriptura is a tradition of Protestants and not of either Catholics or Orthodox.
Methodist Christianity denies the Calvinist tradition of predestination of souls.
The Baptist tradition of full immersion baptism.
The Anabaptist tradition that infants shouldn't be baptized.
The Shaker tradition that sin is removed through shaking your fingers and that you shouldn't have sex and keep numbers up through adoption of children.
The Mennonite tradition of rejecting technological advancements for a simpler lifestyle.
>>850276
Doctrine. Practice.
Faith. Demonstration that you don't know what faith is.
>>850290
If you know of one, please let me know.
>>850223
I knew it was built on one guy's bones. I assumed you took that to mean the hill even in Pre-Christian Rome was a man made structure of human bones encased in dirt.
>>850320
>The Shaker tradition that sin is removed through shaking your fingers and that you shouldn't have sex and keep numbers up through adoption of children.
Omg they're actually a thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers#Celibacy_and_children
>>850339
You aren't even answering the argument
>>850242
Yeah, and I said that Massey was a retard for it just as Hilsop was a retard for doing the same thing with Babylonian religion while tossing on the qualifier that "only THESE guys that I don't like who call Jesus the Son of God are repurposed paganism while the guys I DO like are authentic and wholly original."
Again, you're insinuating I think Zeitgeist is fact when I know it's horseshit.
>>850345
There is none. You are an aberration
Every kind of faggot has a place on the internet, a hugbox if you will. Except you. I honestly don't know where to find more of your kind
>>850271
Nice argument.
>>850294
The Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon that is spoken of in chapter 17 of the Book of Revelation: “I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of blasphemous names…and on her forehead was written a name of mystery: ‘Babylon the great, mother of harlots…” (vv. 3-5).
The woman (the harlot) is the Roman Catholic Church.
Rev 17:9…“This calls for a mind with wisdom; the seven heads are seven hills on which the woman is seated,” and
Rev 17:18…“And the woman that you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth.”
Gee, really tough mystery.
>>850307
What is Prosperity Gospel?
What is stopbaptistpredators.com?
And most deliciously, if you believe the Catholic Chuch lies and makes people do things God doesn't care about, why does it fucking matter if they do it or not when God doesn't care about if something is done?
Oh wait, hang on..
>DAGON FISH HAT WHORE OF BABYLON MEMES MEMES MEMES CRACKERS AND JUICE VITRIOL VITRIOL VITRIOL WHY DONT YOU TAKE ME SERIOUSLY YOU MEANINES WHAAAAAAH!
>>850320
Your point? Any point? Any relevance whatsoever?
Want to say the Roman Catholic Church has never ever changed any of its doctrines in 1700 years?
Hard predestination is against scripture, and is false.
Full immersion baptism is according to the scriptures, and is true.
Infant baptism is contrary to the scriptures, and false.
Sin removal by shaking fingers is contrary to scriptures, and false.
Mennonite and Luddite lifestyles are not spoken of in the bible; let each man be convinced in his heart what is right.
sola scriptura
letting the bible speak for itself.
>>850348
Not so fast dude. They found an ossuary with Peter's bones in it in his hometown. In the light of that discovery, suddenly the vatican found a hidden box of bones they say are Peter's.
>>850363
You gave a false definition, and lied.
Why do you think an argument to counter you is necessary?
>>850352
And almost extinct too!
I guess those Protestants were wrong about their theology that sex was bad.
>>850385
Horseshit is fact. Just go to a ranch sometime.
>>850409
Meh. I'll stand alone on the word of God then.
>>850420
Justice works when God gives the Vatican blood to drink, for the blood of the saints she spilled over the past 1700 years.
>>850444
>The woman (the harlot) is the Roman Catholic Church.
And can you point to where in the Scriptures it says that? Sola scriptura, after all.
>>850458
Yeah, why does the pope wear the same hat as the high priest of Dagon?
>arguing with people that cite Hislop and unironically use the word "Romanism"
>arguing with people who think it would have been possible for the Roman Catholic church to kill 68 million Protestants despite the demographics of European showing that to be an impossibility
>arguing with people who unrionically think the Pope's mitre is anything other than a derivative of 9th century Byzantine court fashion
>>850460
>Infant baptism is contrary to scripture
False. The subject is never explicitly talked about in the scriptures
Of course there are some who draw comparison between infant baptism and the Jewish practice of circumcision, but let's save that argument for later
>>850460
You complain about traditions while having your own, several of which conflict with eachother.
There are Protestants who shout "PAPIST WHORE OF BABYLON" that baptize their children Catholic style.
Of course the Shakers were wrong (they're almost extinct), but they were a Protestant sect apart from Rome that were never Catholic so how damned are they then?
And if that's the case with Mennonites, why can't I be convinced in my heart that it is right to believe that Transubstantiation of the Eucharist is right?
Sola Scriptura
Leaves theological plot holes.
>>850499
68,000,000 people, many of whom were Christians, and many of whom were Jews.
The above does not include any tens of millions for the actions of the papacy in the last century, including the Holocaust.
It's the same hat.
>>850463
>they
Who's they?
"They" also said they found Jesus' bones in a tomb in Israel. How does that factor into this?
Christianity was a mistake
>>850508
Of course it is.
Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
You cannot make a disciple out of an infant.
>>850509
That's your point? That some Christians are wrong about some things?
Hey, guess what? They'll still be in heaven!
>>850484
Because early Christians saw the fish hats, remembered how Jesus said "I shall make you fishers of men" and decided it'd be cool to have fish hats for the 12 Diciples and those they appoint their direct successors. :^)
>>850506
No mention of the Roman Catholic Church anywhere there, unless you put in your own words. Tough.
>>850531
How can they be in Heaven when they're not Catholic?
>>850523
I also spoke to a Franciscan priest in authority at the priest's printing plant within the walls of old Jerusalem, where their book on the subject was printed. He also admitted that the tomb of St. Peter is in Jerusalem. Then when I visited the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, I encountered a Franciscan monk. After telling him what I thought of the wonderful discovery the Franciscans had made, I asked him plainly, "Do you folks really believe that those are the remains of St. Peter?" He responded, "Yes we do, we have no choice in the matter. The clear evidence is there." I did not doubt the evidence, but what surprised me was that these priests and monks believed that which was against their own religion and on top of that, to admit it to others was something out of this world. Usually a Catholic, either because he is brainwashed or stubbornly doesn't want to see anything only that which he has been taught, will not allow himself to believe anything against his religion, much less to admit it to others. But there is a growing, healthy attitude among many Catholics, to "prove all things, hold fast to that which is good" as Paul admonished us all.
Then I asked, "Does Father Bagatti (co-writer of the book in Italian on the subject, and archaeologist) really believe that those are the bones of St. Peter?" "Yes, he does," was the reply. Then I asked, "But what does the Pope think of all this?"
That was a thousand dollar question and he gave me a million dollar answer. "Well," he confidentially answered in a hushed voice, "Father Bagatti told me personally that three years ago he went to the Pope (Pius XII) in Rome and showed him the evidence and the Pope said to him, 'Well, we will have to make some changes, but for the time being, keep this thing quiet'."
In awe I asked also in a subdued voice, "So the Pope really believes that those are the bones of St. Peter?" "Yes," was his answer. "The documentary evidence is there, he could not help but believe.
>>850506
But none of those passages explicitly say she's the modern Roman Catholic Church let alone just "the Church of Rome."
>>850528
“You are righteous, O Lord,
The One who is and who was and who is to be,
Because You have judged these things.
For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
And You have given them blood to drink.
For it is their just due.”
You're reading what's going to happen in the future.
>>850547
Christians
worshipers of Dagon
I don't think so, Tim.
