Hero or terrorist? Why?
Osama bin Laden was a hero to many people. He was also a terrorist. You're a faggot.
>>836070
I'm asking for your opinion, geez anon.
>>836061
hero he wanted black Americans to get out of white america and make their our nation.
Depends on your skin color
>>836075
A hero to whom?
>>836074
Then ask a different question that doesn't imply you want us to choose one of the two, faggot
>>836061
He was an important leader for a group of people who are oppressed to shit
inc. poltards
>>836075
>make our nation
Yh hows Liberia doing right now my negro.
>>836061
Cool guy, MLK was a better man though.
>>836090
Wrong some, right a lot, and generally well spoken. Definitely still relevant.
He challenged powers that be in a way that is crucial for a republic to function in a representative manner.
bad cop to MLK's good cop
>>836092
Liberia is not the only fucking country in Africa
In what way could he be seen as a terrorist?
>>836120
>ter·ror·ism
>the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims
>>836111
Liberia was a nation founded by blacks from America.
dumb ass wite boi baka
>>836119
Don't you mean muslims ;^)
>>836134
Europeans
>>836134
nice sources there
>>836134
>Japan
Bow down to me, you baka gaijin
>>836119
Violence is justified in the face of oppression.
>B-but they weren't oppressed
Yes they were, fuck off
>>836092
Liberia had been ruled by a certain Americo-Liberian upperclass until the Cold War. During the Cold War, some native dude staged a coup. However, this dude was anti-communist so the US went full retard and sucked his dick.
Therefore, the US fucked up Liberia.
>>836128
Yeah 100 years before Malcom X was a thing
>>836163
>>836134
Why do you act like IQ is an accurate representation of intelligence?
>>836190
It is.
It predicts income and shit pretty well.
>>836190
Why do you act like it isn't?
The only reason people started saying it wasn't was because the facts looked racist.
>>836185
So?
>>836196
A single number isn't able to capture the immense complexities of human intelligence. You're delusional.
>The researchers arrived at their conclusion based on the results of a 30-minute online cognitive test completed by over 100,000 participants, combined with the results of an imaging study, in which 16 people had their brains scanned while they performed the same half-hour cognitive challenge.
>The test contained 12 types of task, including spatial, verbal and memory batteries. The different types of task led to different amounts of activity in the three brain networks. Tasks drawing more on memory were associated with greater activity in a network located towards the front of the brain; tasks tapping logic were associated with greater activity in a network spanning frontal and more posterior regions; verbal tasks were associated with more activity in fronto-temporal network.
>Hampshire and his colleagues said this tripartite view was supported by demographic data collected as part of the online testing. For instance, based on an analysis of a subset of 44,600 participants (omitting incomplete tests; the very young and old), memory and logic performance declined with age, but verbal performance did not. Excessive smoking adversely impacted on memory and verbal performance, but not logic. ‘Human intelligence is most parsimoniously conceived of as an emergent property of multiple specialised brain systems,’ the researchers concluded, ‘each of which has its own capacity.’
>>836126
Are there any examples of Malcolm X doing that?
>>836246
Regardless of what precisely it measures, it does measure future success in life fairly well.
>>836134
Is this from Richard Lynn? The guy who can't have a grasp on statistics if his life depended on it?
>>836266
All memes aside, there must have been some error in the way they administered an IQ test to a gorilla, because we all know even a 50 IQ bushman is smarter than a gorilla.
>>836061
Why either?
I don't particularly consider him a hero but he was not a terrorist.
>>836276
I've interacted with Bushmen before. I have my doubts.
>>836276
Saffer here
If khoisan were that dumb they would've died out eons ago
I'm fairly certain gorillas can't herd cattle
And the chart is bogus
Most of the scores were admitted guessed from neighboring countries, and Equatorial Guinea's infamous score of 59 came from a spanish asylum with mentally retarded children
The higher scores for students in countries like Nigeria and Uganda were deleted because they didn't fit the nazi narrative
>>836266
That page doesn't exist anon.
I can't even find any signs of research on Coko's IQ from a paper of sorts.
Post a credible source for Koko's IQ
>>836289
You mean debunked charts that no researcher takes seriously because the results were fabricated and the "methods" were dishonest from the start?
Honesty & ethics are considered important in research
http://desustorage.org/his/search/text/lynn/
>>836061
>did not perpetrate ideological violence
>did not actually incite ideological violence
>terrorist
Something's not adding up here.
>>836092
I sometimes wonder whether a Liberia 2.0 could work out. I feel like a group of highly qualified black Americans with modern, Western educations could be much more competent than whoever was in charge the first time around.
Of course it would require finding some country willing to cede a large tract of land peaxefully, lawfully and affordably but whatever.
>>836296
Border collies can herd cattle, bro.
>>836321
wew lad
>>836149
this
>>836321
Not without the guidance of man
>>836126
he advocated self-defense against white people lynching black people. he didn't call for race war for the sake of race war.
pretty fair, considering his own father was lynched by the KKK.
>>836348
He was strongly connected with the Nation of Islam, but to be fair he later disconnected with them and compared his life with them to a life of a zombie
checkmate nerds
>>836289
Kek. /pol/tards posting with their feelings and calling them facts.
>>836369
Did the NOI ever commit acts of terrorism while he was still involved with them??
>>836061
Malcolm never promoted indiscriminate violence towards white people, even when he was in the nation of Islam, so I don't know why anyone would call him a terrorist.
He had a very simple message that made a great deal of sense: the black man needs to be self-sufficient and he needs to have a right to defend himself like any other human being and what he's entitled to aren't civil rights but basic human rights and if any white people want to help the black man, they aren't going help him by way of encouraging him to be docile and turn the other cheek, but by helping the black man learn how to be self-sufficient that he can rely more on himself than on a bankrupt white political system for its needs. His speeches after he left the NOI are pretty much the culmination and perfection of his thought where he turned from separatism to Pan-Africanism and Islamic religion. He still believed a race war or some kind of impending doom in America was imminent in which the black man would just decide he "had enough", but he dropped the NOI apocalypticism and believed that it would be more of joint effort between blacks and their more genuine white sympathizers (which in his mind were those who would pick up a rifle with them). He seems to have believed there might have been a non-violent solution to the problems he saw, as he eventually thought the only non-violent option left was to make the black man's problems in America an issue of "human rights" rather than civil rights which could be brought before the UN.
Had he lived, he would have probably developed a more cohesive mixture of black nationalism, Pan-Africanism, and orthodox Muslim ideology. He seems to have gotten into some conflict with his Arab friends even after leaving the NOI because they thought he was still too focused on race, to which he replied that Arabs seemed only to care about cozying up with white people.
>>836149
>if Liberia was a non-aligned or socialist country it would be pretty fine
wew lodi dodi
When a white person calls for violence against the government and authority figures in the face of oppression (i.e. when gun ownership is threatened, or in the case of the Ranch stand-off), they are generally seen as people standing up for their rights.
When blacks do the same, in the case of Malcom X especially, they are usually seen as "thugs" or "terrorists."
Malcom X was pretty much the penultimate black Libertarian.
>>836070
malcolm x was the realest nigga ever. fuck you faggot
>>836061
Black separatist.
>>836119
you're a fucking moron. go back to pol
>>838440
CANI GET AN AMEN!
>>836143
where are you from akhi
>>838443
Yh anon its such a lie that decades since Malcolm's time the blacks are the still the most crime prone ethnic group in the USA. After all the fucking programs we white people made for them they still havent changed in the slightest.
>>838454
maybe that's because they were confined to ghettos in the north that were pumped full of drugs. listen dude, do yourself a favor and think beyond what your racist tendencies tell you. no intelligent person can make the argument you're making. I can sit here and dismantle your bigotry but you're not worth the time. go fucking read a book jackass
>>838478
>maybe that's because they were confined to ghettos in the north that were pumped full of drugs
Yh anon thats why poor white people also have the same level of crime as poor blacks OH WAIT THEY DONT NOT EVEN CLOSE. You blacks keep forgetting that one simple fact that no white crime rate approachs any of yours regardless of how much wealth the white settlement has. Its funny really but you noice the crime rates of shitholes like Baltimore and Detroit DECREASE IF YOU GO BACK IN TIME AKA WHEN MORE WHITE PEOPLE WERE THERE.
>>838484
A. I'm not black
B. you and I both know that being white and poor and being black and poor are two different things. places like Baltimore and Detroit had ghettos constructed because of white hostility. you're also forgetting that vice was usually contained in these ghettos by design. take a look at the history of chicago. read "black chicago" by alan spear. p.s suck a dick
>>838539
lmao that first statement is factually wrong. I'm done here. you're literally too racist and stupid for this convo. your emphasis on crime just weakens your argument. there are many other factors at play here. kill urself my man
>>838539
I believe in unified class struggle and all that shit, but you are crazy if you don't recognize that there are some unique factors to being an instantly recognizable minority within a larger society.
He's the worst thing to ever happen to African-Americans. Thought them to no longer assimulate but to focus on being anti-white.
Technically that in itself isn't necessarily bad, but unfortunately that evolved from simply giving their children Islamic inspired names to thinking being educated = being "too white".
He singlehandedly created all future generations of niggers.
>>836119
>m-m-muh correlation
>its a choice of every black person to commit crimes
>muh methodological individualism
>>838609
If genetic determinism is real, we're all fucking screwed and everything we do is meaningless and we as individuals don't matter in the slightest.
>>838638
Well that analysis is obviously incorrect. Hereditary wealth and status can get a lot of unintelligent jerks into good colleges and jobs. And, just as an average human being, who says rule of the most intelligent is desirable? Populism would seem to conform with the idea of making sure there is a society that would be good for you no matter what position you had been born into.
Both. Like John Brown.
>>836061
The nation of islam is the fucking stupidest set of beliefs in recent memory.
Not a hero, not a terrorist, a fucking moron.
>>836126
Can people stop spouting googled answers when people ask for definitions? There are plenty of things which fall under that definition which aren't terrorism. War between national powers is very obviously not considered terrorism. The closest the UN has come to narrowing the definition down is by stating that terrorism involves the harm or the threat of harm against noncombatants. Even an extraordinarily violent activist isn't a terrorist so long as they're not assaulting nonviolent people.
>>836190
Because my IQ's 140 and I'm still not smart enough to convince people that it isn't not important.
>>836192
>Income equates to intelligence
american politics at its finest
>>838638
>ONLY CHEMICALS MAN
>>>/reddit/
Liberals understand far better the depth with which our physical composition governs our actions, hence the reason for which they don't want to hold people responsible for things that aren't in their control. When was the last time you saw a right winger talking about things like "mental health," or even really fund science for that matter? That never happens because the right's narrative is that if you just thrown on enough elbow grease you'll become big and rich and thus benefit from all the tax loopholes politicians and elites give themselves at the expense of the populace. "Just try really hard and think about it really hard and your willpower will fix everything, then you'll be up here with me eating trump steaks and laughing at poor people like your current self!". Republicans are literally Tom Cruise: the party. The left is typically the one pointing out how blatantly retarded that is, not the one promoting that kind of naivety.
Wanting to compensate for poor circumstance (even if that circumstance is your own body, as your cherry-picked studies might suggest) is not the same as claiming people can overcome that circumstance. If that circumstance could just be defeated, the left wouldn't have motive to aid people in the first place, retard.
>>838714
>isn't not important
>isn't important*
My IQ fails me again
>>838714
>When was the last time you saw a right winger talking about things like "mental health,"
Johnny K motherfucker
>>836185
>Somalia
>Nation of Black Muslims
failed
>Liberia
>Nation of Black Americans with Christian ideals
failed
>Zimbabwe
>Nation of Black Marxists
failed
>Haiti
>Nation of Black slaves
failed
Noticing a pattern?
>>836382
>checkmate nerds
you seem to be implying that he's stalking someone for assassination in this photo?
to be clear, this famous photo is him protecting his home, wife and 3 daughters from the NOI who were trying to assassinate HIM for denouncing Elijah Muhammad
>>839132
They're all very warm.
>>839132
>have no marketable skills
>no infrastructure to speak of
>very little basis for legitimate rule
>usually born out of war
You're not even trying to understand the type of thing that Malcom X was trying to advocate, are you? X was basically saying that the only way Blacks are ever going to be considered on par with Whites in America was through building self-sufficient communities, having skills, civilizing themselves, becoming educating, and being willing to protect themselves.
>>836497
I don't think they ever did with or without Malcolm in membership.
they preached that whites were devils and inferior, but their tactics were separatism and self defense as far as what I remember written in X's autobio. He had split with them before it was published, so he wouldn't have been interested in covering for them.
We should've let the South secede, we'd be colonizing Mars by now. It's frustrating when rednecks from the South ramble about "muh black subhumans muhfugga" when they're barely a step above the niggers they hate.
>>838612
>implying it's not a choice of every black person to commit crimes
what the fuck? were they hypnotized or something? let me guess you'll say some shit about having to survive in the ghetto or whatever
>>839782
He's going to tell you that they are poor and oppressed and therefore forced to commit crimes to survive.
>>839717
>racist white person
BASED, REDPILLED
>racist nigger
FUCKING NIGGERS REEEEEE
>>838612
> Its a choice of every black person to commit crimes
What the fuck, It is. You can argue that they were justified into doing it or had good reasons for it, at best they didn't knew it was a crime, but you can't argue that they were forced to commit crimes.
What the fuck do you think black people are, non-sentient animals that don't know what they're doing.
>ITT sjws defending an actual terrorist just because eh "stuck it up to us white devils"
>>839951
Yes. That is how the left sees blacks.
>>840131
>actual terrorist
whom did he terrorize? sauce, please.
>>839004
geez oh man this is just crazy this is just nuts
>>836061
neither. His opinions were shit but he didn't do anything that would make me consider him a terrorist.
>>836061
Hero.
Because he's black and white people need to go extinct :^)
>>840563
top kek, but the /pol/ part gives you away. Your trolling needs work
>>838484
Poverty is not the only factor we're dealing with here. Indeed culture is the one most important factor in these cases.
>>836307
For a black guy who has spent way to much time basement dwelling lurking /pol/ lately, seing those criticisms of Lynn's work took a load of my chest. I shouldn't put so much trust in the shit I see on the internet.
>>839004
Really? I actually didn't know that, I'm just used to him going "oh jeez golly gosh, I mean wow fiddly diddly abortionissin gosh geez really holy cow burnthegays gosh how silly this is just nuts," never struck me as the type to even even believe in that sort of thing.
He had a lot of worthwhile shit to say; but also spouted a lot of psuedo-science and made up history in the form of NOI
It's a real shame the Nation of Islam killed him for leaving right after he admitted some of the shit he said was a bit much
>>836061
A nigga
>>840744
>He had a lot of worthwhile shit to say; but also spouted a lot of psuedo-science and made up history in the form of NOI
Honestly, he really didn't. If anything he purposely avoided any public talk of specific elements of NOI theology or religious history in his speeches and interviews. This is why he had so much appeal. He wasn't going on the podium talking about Yaqub the big headed scientist who cooked white people in his laboratory
>>838424
>hey are generally seen as people standing up for their rights.
Most people thought they were crazies.
Vanilla ISIS and so on.
a herorist
>>838604
assimilation wasn't working
>>838697
he broke away from the nation of islam. try again
>>838424
>When a white person calls for violence against the government and authority figures in the face of oppression (i.e. when gun ownership is threatened, or in the case of the Ranch stand-off), they are generally seen as people standing up for their rights.
They're seen as violent, insane revolutionaries just as often. The Oregon standoff is proof of this. The average person perceives white people looking to start a revolution as dangerous.
>When blacks do the same, in the case of Malcom X especially, they are usually seen as "thugs" or "terrorists."
Same goes for white people. The IRA is a terrorist organization.
>Malcom X was pretty much the penultimate black Libertarian.
Who was the ultimate one?
Liberia was actually pretty funny because the slaves we sent over there redid the plantation system except they were the plantation owners and the natives were the slaves
>>836119
That was before he became enlightened and realise violence wasn't the answer.
>>836132
He was a muslim.
Lots of African Americans are Muslim.
>>838604
let's not forget how MLK sadly and accidentally killed whatever was left of black success in America. Metaphorically did the equivalent of spreading legs and saying "CUM FUCK ME"
>>836382
Poor trigger discipline. Would not kill whitey with.
>>839132
I notice a pattern. All countries are owned by another country. They are also all poor. can't sell their own resources. no education. and disease infested.
>>846773
wow because this matters how? I;m sure a bullet would kill you no matter how you hold a gun.
>>839584
Zimbabwe had extensive agricultural infrastructure. When the white farmers were expelled, the land was given to Mugabe's veteran cronies. Said infrastructure was subsequently dismantled, sometimes ritualistically, and sold for scrap. Here's a very interesting article about it from the Atlantic:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/12/how-to-kill-a-country/302845/
Zimbabwean refugees have subsequently fled to Botswana (Botswana has now built a wall to keep them out) and South Africa (where they face xenophobic attacks from South African blacks, who see them as threats to the already-failing job market).
>>839132
Somalia - Somaliland and Puntland in particular - is not as decrepit as the memes may lead you to believe. Traditionally, the Somali clan structure is simply resistant to the idea of central authority, making it very difficult for government to have legitimacy. It does not help that Al-Shabaab and ISIS are making a nuisance of themselves in the southern half of country. However, they are being steadily pushed out. Somalia likely has enormous petroleum reserves, and is a huge producer of livestock. Provided they aren't cannibalized by the neighboring Middle East or consumed by radical salafists, Somalia may very well eventually turn itself around.
It depends on whether they can snare semi-competent leadership, as Botswana managed to do. The main problem is that these African countries are extremely prone to corruption and incompetence in their leadership.
>>839584
>>846865
While Malcolm X in his speeches at times seems to have leaned towards using the term socialism, he admits he only preferred this term because over capitalism was because capitalism seemed to be associated exclusively with what he called "American dollarism," whereas socialism at the time, especially in African countries was understood mostly as self-sufficiency and independence, freedom from excessive control by others, but he also mentioned in other speeches that he didn't really care much for whether one identified as either.
Based on what I can tell, Malcolm X probably favored capitalism at heart, in terms of private ownership and free enterprise and freedom from state control, and he was also well read in the works of Booker T. Washington, W.E.B Dubois and I believe Frederick Douglass as well.
I think the identification of Malcolm X as a Pan-African libertarian is adequate. One reason the Nation of Islam was also so successful was because it was very much about getting blacks off drugs, off spending their money on frivolities, and teaching black men actual skills so they could become more financially independent (much as Booker T. Washington had advocated before them), and Malcolm X seems to have carried these views well up to his death. But he seems very conscious of avoiding saying the Pan-African Union needed to be socialist or capitalist, partly because he was humble enough to admit that he did not know enough about either to say which he preferred economically and partly because during the 1950's and 60's there were very strong for or against one or the other. Had he identified himself as a socialist, it would have alienated many anti-socialist African-Americans (and whites) and the same would have happened the other way. Malcolm's main appeal, even while he was with the Nation of Islam, was to push people's buttons, but also attempting to appeal to the greatest number of people in the black community
>>847260
>it was very much about getting blacks off drugs, off spending their money on frivolities, and teaching black men actual skills so they could become more financially independent (much as Booker T. Washington had advocated before them)
I think that's a really important thing to stress in society in general. I wish these values were more important in the public consciousness
>>847282
We're too inundated now with the wonders of modernity.
I look forward to another post- prefix era in which we might be a little wiser about the frivolities of life.
>>847282
The Nation of Islam, whatever one thinks of its beliefs, was very successful in its particular, limited social circles in cleaning up those communities that even if there was still a few drug dealers in the neighborhood, they would never think of selling drugs to the children of the Muslims (which in this case were the NOI guys) or in touching the NOI's women and in many cases, white people in those neighborhoods might not have been afraid at all of leaving their doors unlocked knowing there were plenty of NOI Muslims in the neighborhood whom they could trust not to steal from them.
The reason other civil rights organizations were envious of the NOI had to do with the fact that the NOI provided some of the best schools, the best job training and the best rehabilitation for young black men in their neighborhoods and encouraged a strong patriarchal family structure that maintained order. Where the NOI began to fall from grace was when the character of Elijah Muhammad came into question and all-stars like Malcolm X and Clarence 13X among others left. But even Malcolm admitted that although he disliked Elijah for his infidelity and authoritarianism, he still admitted that he thought Elijah Muhammad's economic and social program was sound and he still of course felt the Islamic religion, which now for him was a more orthodox kind, was much better at organizing and disciplining blacks than any other religion. And black Muslims of all sects in America still tend to have the lowest actual crime rates among African Americans
When Farrakhan took over the NOI, he showed that the NOI still had an immense power at organizing with the million man march, most of the participants were not Muslims or NOI at all.
>>840692
You shouldn't be a NEET then you NEEG
