Do you prefer Rome or Carthage?
>>822906
I love Roman history. Carthage was interesting for being so purely trade focused
if you didnt root for hannibal then you should reevaluate ur life
>>822917
this desu
I just rered sun tzu and it seems he had red the book
Carthage wouldn't have transformed the world as much. They lacked the patriotic qualities of Greeco-Romans and likely wouldn't have left much of a treasured cultural impact. That aside, it's interesting how both Carthage and Rome were similarly structured Republics.
>>822919
>Hannibal
>literate
>Caring about chinks
>Living at the same time as Sun Zoo
>Not a cuck
>>822924
>Greeco-Romans
>Implying there was such a thing
also
>Carthage and Rome were similarly structured Republics.
wtf am I reading
Carthage was a direct democracy when rome was a republic hold by the senat
>>822928
first, sun tzu is older than hannibal
second, I know he did not read the book, I was just pointing that he applied the same strategies without having red the books
>>822906
C A R T H A G O
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O
>>822931
>Carthage was a direct democracy
Wat. Only the influential families had any political say, similar to the Patrician voting block's dominance over the Plebian one.
>>822934
Sun tzu is a meme
>>822953
No it was a direct democracy
this is why the democratic cities of south italy rallied to hannibal against rome.
this is why rome destroyed carthage in the third punic war
Aristotle described the carthagenian democracy in his treaty "politics"
"While many people assume democracy was created by the Greeks and Romans, that is not entirely the case. Even Aristotle commented favorably on the constitutional government of Carthage, which answered directly to its people."
http://www.phoenician.org/carthage_hannibal_barca.htm
>>822968
>on the constitutional government of Carthage
Well that's a shitty translation, how pray tell was it "constitutional"?
>>822978
in english please ?
>siding with baby killers
delenda est indeed
>>822982
De que manera fue Cartago "constitucional" en un sentido moderno? Que documento se usa para justificar llamarlo asi?
Tenia reglamantos codificados y dificlimente cambiados por el estado o simplemente tenia leyes y por lo tanto era considerado "constitucional" por ese hecho?
>>822996
>ALLEGED baby killers.
Yeah but in all seriousness that article a few weeks ago pretty much convinced me that Carthage needed to be stopped.
Even if I like to play them on RTW.
>>823007
Which article
carthage must be destroyed
>>823011
It was published here, headline read "new research proves that Carthage really sacrificed infants to their gods" or something to that effect.
>>823000
Excerpted from Aristotle, The Politics Of Aristotle,
"It is a general opinion that the Carthaginians live under a polity which is excellent and in many respects superior to all others ..."
http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/AriCar.html
>>823026
http://phys.org/news/2014-01-ancient-carthaginians-sacrifice-children.html
>>823030
this is just a recent publication that does not make unanimity at all and does not provide any proof and only point out some hinches
>>823025
That doesn't answer my question it just reiterates your original comment.
>>822968
WE WUZ DEMOS N SHIT
>>822996
romans sacrificed people when the threat of Hannibal taking their city seemed like a possibility.
>>823025
>Democratic Baby killers
That just makes the baby killing worse
>>823045
hey, I am not the one pretending the greeks are western europeans
>>822996
>late abortions
>forced deadly gore
Pick one
>>823047
And Carthage sacrificed babies to make it rain.
>>823048
except they did not kill babies ...
>>823051
proof ?
>>823049
I don't think anyone has ever claimed that, tho. Europeans, yes. Western Europeans? All you need to disprove that is a map.
>>823055
I only see speculations here, where are the evidence ?
>>823050
see:
>>823030
>People have tried to argue that these archaeological sites are cemeteries for children who were stillborn or died young, but quite apart from the fact that a weak, sick or dead child would be a pretty poor offering to a god, and that animal remains are found in the same sites treated in exactly the same way, it's hard to imagine how the death of a child could count as the answer to a prayer
>>823057
>Europeans, yes.
then why westernerns depict greeks with blond hair in their hollywood movies ?
Why do westerners say "we" when they talk about greek history ?
>>823062
I only see speculations here, where are the evidence ?
>>823065
I only see speculations here, where are the evidence ?
>>823073
what is this ?
>>823073
This one too
'The Cultures of the Tophet: Identification and Identity in the Phoenician Diaspora', in Cultural Identity in the Ancient Mediterranean, Gruen ES (ed.), (Getty Research Institute 2011).
I can't internet well, sorry, so go read a book I guess.
>>823077
A book.
Read it.
>>823085
no
>>823088
Alright, then stay ignorant.
>>823080
>so go read a book I guess
no
>>823090
I am not, I just won't read that particular book
>>823064
>then why westernerns depict greeks with blond hair in their hollywood movies ?
Americans depict a lot of things wrongly in their movies. Even with their own history, sometimes to their own detriment. Trying to slant it as a cultural opinion rather than just some chucklefuck who didn't bother to do his research is flawed.
>Why do westerners say "we" when they talk about greek history
This means nothing. A French historian would not say "we" when discussing German history -- it stops neither from being Western.
There's a difference between Western & Western European, btw. Greece is part of the West -- it is not in Western Europe.
>>822906
Carthage did nothing wrong.
>>823105
they killed babies
>>823095
It literally has the research you're asking for.
>>823103
>Greece is part of the West
so is japan
You don't think late abortions are wrong you are in no way justified to believe the baby sacrifice made the carthagians worse than the romans.
>>823110
no it's just bluff
>>823080
This study says Carthaginians did not sacrifice children:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009177
>>823064
>then why westernerns depict greeks with blond hair in their hollywood movies ?
>Why do westerners say "we" when they talk about greek history ?
because they're idiots, only good at appropriating culture.
>>823116
I'm pretty sure in most parts of the world where abortion is allowed it's only allowed during the first trimester.
Carthage was the America of its time with its focus on trade and navy
Rome was the USSR of its time with its focus on militarism and infantry
>>822906
Carthage, i'm from Sardinia, my blood is Phoenician, I could never betray their memory, you live in me, brothers!
>>823189
long live sardinia
>>823189
LOL, you are crazy.
>>823199
no, he is educated and lucid
>>822947
D E L E N D A
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>>823195
Another Sardinian brother?
>>823206
Carthage did have some colonies in Sardinia, but that doesn't mean all contemporary Sardinians have Cathaginian ancestry.
>>823213
nope, just a history geek
>>823189
>Sardinians
>Anything more than a slightly fishy Sicilian mudblood with the Arab in his blood
Sardinia and Sicily are the laughing stock of italy, when italy is already currently a laughingstock. How does that feel you southern monkey men?
>>823217
Although "some colonies" is an underestimation, it's been demonstrated that only some parts of the remotest interior of the country remained outside Carthage's influence.
>>823217
>Carthage did have some colonies in Sardinia, but that doesn't mean all contemporary Sardinians have Cathaginian ancestry.
it actually does
>>823225
>Anything more than a slightly fishy Sicilian mudblood with the Arab in his blood
> fishy Sicilian mudblood with the Arab in his blood
> Sicilian with the Arab in his blood
That's redundant
>>823225
you should be more respectful, you are speaking to the desendant of the people of the sea
>>823225
Wasn't your message a little harsh?... I hope you were just joking, I don't think it's right to insult a whole people like that...
>>823239
he is an asshole
>>823225
I'm honored to be compared to the great people known as Sicilians!
>>823228
How so?
Perhaps most Sardinians have Carthaginian ancestry, as nearly all of the island was part of Carthage's empire, but surely not all contemporary Sardinians are descendants of those Carthaginians.
>>823252
becaue carthagenians were traders and mixed with the people they were trading with, colonising the coasts of their empire
Hannibal for example, married an iberian woman
>>823252
Most of those colonies started out as Nuragic settlements so this is why modern Sadinians don't have much phoenician blood, it was more of a cultural thing but o course they were viewed and considered themselves as phoenicians during Roman times.
And I think punic were still spoken for some time on the island after the punic wars.
>>823262
But that doesn't preclude Italians migrating from the mainland, especially after being conquered by Rome.
>>823294
And? I don't understand your point.
>>823116
Yes I do baby killer
Numidians>Carthaginians
Fuck
Garamantes>Carthaginians
>>823310
your trolling power level is poor
>>823310
t. WTWSMS dev
>>823312
both outlived Carthagefags
Jugurtha>Hannibal
>>823115
>so is japan
It is heavily westernized, so in many ways, japan is part of the west.
>>823357
japan doesnt have enough muslims and niggers to be considered the west
>>823025
Yes but Aristotle was in favour of a conservative minded democracy which would certainly not be a direct democracy
Carthage ofc
So was Syracuse just a meme?
>>823552
just long past its prime
>>822906
I always kinda thought this war was racially fueled
Is this possible?
If Carthage won there'd be a lot more Celts around today, yes?
>>825968
The Mediterranean wasn't white or black. Carthage was a multicultural North African trade state.
People scoff at the notion of a Mediterranean race for bad reasons.
>>825975
Assuming Rome was so vanquished that they could never invade the north, yes. Most of Europe would be Celtic or Germanic
