How have the Christian church historically chosen to explain that virtuous people who denied Christ or never had a chance to accept Christ been sent to the same hell murderess and other evildoers are sent to?
Pic somewhat related.
>>801332
1. There are no virtuous people.
2. Everyone deserves to go to hell.
3. We all started in the same place, and are all related.
Anything else?
>>801332
Shitty Op grammar, sorry.
How have, the various Christian Churches, through history chosen to explain that people who by Christians standards have been sent to hell simply because never accepting Christ?
Many of them never even had the slightest chance to accept Christ, such as the American Indians before Columbus.
>>801355
So how do people deserve to go to heaven?
>>801355
What a sad, nihilistic worldview. Completely devoid of any hope or anything positive or constructive. I truly feel sorry for people like you
>>801332
>people who denied Christ
They had a lifetime to repent, they had their chance.
>never had a chance to accept Christ
Invincible ignorance.
See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_of_the_unlearned#Catholic
>>801363
We don't.
>>801372
It's quite the opposite, but you wouldn't know that, because you're busy with your "good works" to present to the Creator of the universe.
>>801403
Fate_of_all_catholics_is_hellfire#believeit.
>>801363
Nobody does, Jesus saves them
>>801456
Finally, a breath of fresh air.
>>801449
Yes, and you're busy with endless self-loathing. You may guess which one is ultimately more productive
>>801447
>>801456
So let's say that someone is born and lives his whole life almost the same as Jesus did, without Divine powers, helping whoever he met. He is born in the Americans in the 13th century after christ, neither Vikings or Europeans to take the baptism by but if just given the chance he would love to.
You don't think it is any strange that he is sent to hell while a murderer who repents seconds before dead, after having been scared shitless with stories from hell, is sent to heaven?
>Christcucks LITERALLY believe all crimes are equal
>>801355
>There are no virtuous people
Tip, tip, tip
>>801491
Doesn't matter, because they weren't self-loathing autists like the brave crusader christposters on here are
>>801483
Yes, be a good little boy and go put God in your debt, so that He owes you.
>>801491
>You don't think it is any strange that he is sent to hell
he doesnt go to hell
baptism by desire
>>801491
I would say you have no basis to know which one, if either, was saved, and would reiterate that neither deserved it.
>>801500
But you need special powers to absolve abortion!
>>801501
There are none good; no, not one.
--Jesus of Nazareth
>>801506
That's a Catholic idea though, the Protestatns on here will first disagree and then call you a pagan for it.
>>801504
I honestly don't know what this means. Can you translate this to non-aspergers?
>>801502
*tips fedora*
Only a fag insults the crusaders
They were the mightiest warriors of the middle ages
The blood of heroes is in my veins
>>801521
You already know it's foolish; no need for me to point it out. After all, there is no salvation outside of your cult. Er, church.
>>801523
God is more interested in people praising him than being kind with each other.
>>801523
It means that anyone who believes that their works have anything to do with their salvation are trying to put God into their debt, so that He has to save them.
You receive a free gift.
You earn a paycheck.
Huge difference.
>>801528
I am not a Catholic myself, I am actually a Protestant, though I am in heavy doubt.
>>801521
I think there's a Protestant (Calvinist) opinion that they dont know because theyre not going to be saved anyway, or that it is their fault they dont know. Something along those lines
>>801536
Christians don't go around calling other christians "protestants", so I too have my doubts.
>>801534
So he's autistic?
Because in that case, he truly created you in his image
>>801540
A hard calvinist would say that God saved the ones he wanted to save, and didn't save the ones he didn't want to save, by election, at birth.
>>801545
Are you calling Jesus autistic?
>>801543
I just called myself that, and I am pretty sure you don't think I am a real christian either way.
Even if I tried I would probably break some important thing, like not supporting Israel all out or not using the KJB.
>>801491
No. Firs, there is a parable specifically about this, the one where a man goes around town hiring people for the day. The ones hired last get paid the same, even though they work less. The ones hired first complain that they should receive more; and the boss rebukes that they agreed to the payment before starting to work.
Secondly, sinless people are just speculation, and Christians believe only Jesus was without sin, Catholics believe Mary was sinless too, but only through direct intervention from God. Everyone else has the original sin, and will sin in their lives. Baptism lifts the original sins, Jesus the commited.
There is no tolerance for sin, they are never overlooked. No one who sinned can enter Heaven. Only through Jesus people can enter Heaven.
Before you get too bummed about the ignorant, their fate after death is not eternal, there is still Judgement. And depending on the denomination, the afterlife of the virtuous is much more pleasant.
>fedoras don't think creators have the right to do as they please with their own creations
If someone left bleach out and exposed wires all over the carpet, are you ACTUALLY going to blame the parents for accidents? Or would you rightfully blame the dumbass toddler?
>>801536
What's on your mind? Some "scientific" "fact" that "disproves" the bible? The problem of evil? The suffering of humanity? Let us discuss these things.
>>801560
How did you become a Christian?
>>801518
Pure virtue =/= good. You can be virtuous without attaining perfection.
>>801566
Are you laboring under the delusion that Adam and Eve were younger than you, and dumber?
>>801550
Yes, and his followers. Certainly on here. All of you people have a really weird obsession with rules and ranks, and obeying and upholding them at any cost. They're zero flexibility in these rules and ranks, and you people all speak in this autistic retard language when you defend them
I mean, you do realize that most people don't talk in these retarded archaic terms you use, right? I don't think most Christians even do that, at least not the ones I've met. Only the fundies do that, and they're known for being 'special'
>>801573
Yeah, good luck with that. God already told us what our "good works" are to Him.
Filthy rags. AIDS sore oozing bloody fecal covered filthy rags.
And you want to present those to a holy God?
>>801591
There it is. There's the autistic retard language again
>>801583
Not at all
I'm saying disgusting human vermin have free will and use it to fuck themselves
People are inherently rotten
>>801585
Good luck with that.
As an aside, as a Christian, I am free from everything. All things. Anything. And I am an adopted brother to Jesus, so, again, your understanding of Christianity is lacking.
As to your accusation that we use 2000 year old words to talk about a 2000 year old religion, guilty as charged.
>>801599
Ever since the fall of man, that has been true.
However, Adam and Eve were not that way from the beginning, and were not meant to be this way. Nor were they meant to die.
>>801606
Obviously they were since God predestined it before the founding of the world.
>>801601
>As to your accusation that we use 2000 year old words to talk about a 2000 year old religion, guilty as charged.
No, the problem with you language isn't that it's old, it's that it's autistic. No one in the normal world talks like that, not even the average priest.
It tells me that you've taken on Christianity as some form of LARPing
>>801610
Foreknowledge =/= predestination.
God knew there would be costs and benefits to this creation, and went forward.
maybe stop being a cost.
>>801564
Really?
From reading Jack Chick (And a few others) it seems like when you die in Sin You go to hell, is judged and is then thrown into the fire, it being no way to reach salvation once you are done.
>>801567
Oh, my problem is actually these little "People with no chance going to hell."
I also don't see why the people who don't accept God always have to go to Hell either, couldn't he just let them keep exist or go to some "limbo" like in Dante?
Also, what about everyone who lived before Jesus?
>>801571
Confirmated into it, found I liked helping in it.
>>801614
Feel free to point out any example in this thread where I have said something autistic.
(I note that people usually attack others with their own weaknesses, mistaking such attacks as effective.)
>>801606
False
If they were sinless they would never have disobeyed their creator
>>801614
*tips fedora*
>>801623
1. Correct. If you're dead, and die, you go to the second death.
2. Worry about yourself. Get saved yourself. Then evangelize. You're worthless to anyone as is.
3. So you joined a service club, not the Family of God. That's the reason you're not sure you're a Christian. He's not going to let you be sure, until you're actually a Christian, by doing what He says to do. It's right there in Romans 10:9-10.
>>801620
>Foreknowledge =/= predestination.
Yes it does holy shit.
>>801632
They were sinless until they disobeyed their creator, as satan was sinless until he disobeyed his creator. I can pull the verses if you'd like.
>>801640
Not in the slightest.
Can you read God's mind? No?
Does God tell you everything He thinks? No?
Does God knowing something impact you in any way? No?
Then you're free to act, and to choose, just as God said.
You're mistaking free will with the ability to surprise God. You don't have that power. God will never be surprised by anything. It's not in His nature.
>>801638
>Romans 10:9-10.
Does that mean I have to stop thinking critically, or?
>>801623
Jack Chick can be a bit unreliable.
But, that's something that changes wildly from denomination from denomination
Though I'm quite sure that even Jack Chick believes that you don't receive your Eternal Judgement immeditaly after death, he rather cuts right to it for storytelling
>>801643
Sinless people cannot disobey their creator
Could Jesus disobey God?
>>801629
Your inflexible attitude towards people. Your utter inability to trust them to think or do anything good if they don't subscribe to your worldview. Your utter inability to understand points of views other than your own. And finally, the ridiculous Old Testament bombastic tone and language you use to convey all of this.
All of this tells me you haven't had any normal social interaction in years. You probably don't even like your parents whose roof your live under, or the ecil state that gives your autism welfare.
If you want to be a true noble knight of Jesus, move out of your mom's basement and live on the streets for amonth in abject poverty, like your Bible says you should. Don't trust any of that yucky money or all of those filthy material good, but trust only in your unwavering faith in the Lord.
I'm going to bet you'll last about five minutes, then you'll figure out that prayerdoesn't fill your stomach and you'll go back to the sad, empty and lonely life you live right now
>>801661
I have read quite a lot of Jack chick, and once someone dies it always seem to be to late.
Like in pic related, where the Devil outright tells someone it is to late because he died in his sins (The death being a very "first life" car crash)
>>801661
Why the hell were these tracts allowed in the first place?
>>801659
Of course not.
Do it, and you will be free. And alive.
>>801685
>For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
What did he understood by this?
>>801661
Jack Chick....I have never seen one single frame of one cartoon that was wrong. Nailed it. 68,000,000 murdered victims of the Vatican.
>>801620
> God knew there would be costs and benefits to this creation
God literally could create anything he wanted and just ignore all cost and benefit problems. He could just not create death as concept at the first place if Adam and Even wasn't meant to die.
>>801668
1. Question about people.
2. Question about God.
Which do you want answered?
>>801661
Also, while the tracs that tell about conspiracies aren't that popular the ones about hell are, the tract where someone is sent "into ever lasting punishment" being the most popular of the lot.
And I suppose US Christians who buys the Tracts do know something about their own dogma that makes them continue buying it to spread the word
>>801689
US Evangelists believe them..
>>801682
So, you quoted nothing I posted, and nothing anyone else posted.
I do not trust dead people to know about life. That's true. Unfortunately, people like you don't know that they're dead. And instead of measuring themselves against a standard that matters, they (you) measure yourself against a relative standard, and cherrypick the people you're better than.
Your description of me is quite hilariously wrong; I make quite a good living, and have loving children and grandchildren, so please feel free to shamelessly re-direct your pitiful attack to "you're that old, and you post here???".
kek.
I wouldn't say that I'm a knight; that's kind of a Catholic thing.
I'm a warrior though. If you met me, I would leave you with that impression.
>>801689
To save people from their sins; more accurately, from the consequences of their unbelief.
>>801707
All you can expect from being a sinner is death. And by sinner, I mean unrepentant sinner; a lost person. One born spiritually dead who has never been born again in the Spirit of God.
The free gift of God is that rebirth in the Spirit. It is the regaining of the Holy Spirit that Adam and Eve lost in the Garden of Eden. It is the resurrection unto life, and life eternal.
>>801714
Not if He wanted Love to be exalted, no.
Bump.
Pic related shows all the places where 100% of the population was doomed to hell before Europeans came around.
>>801491
The greatest sin is to knowingly reject God, this is quite different to not being exposed to God's revelation and consequently not believing in him. To knowingly reject Him we must be confronted by irrefutable proof. Matthew 12:24 goes some way to explaining this. In this passage, the Pharisees, having witnessed Jesus performing miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that He was possessed by the demon Beelzebub. By this reckoning there are only a tiny number of people who have ever lived who have committed such sin. The virtuous man as you described, although imperfect, has striven to perfect his soul by helping others and living a good life. It is by this process that his soul is 'made' and eventually accepted by God. Baptism is not necessary to be saved, it's only an expression of faith. The murderer, on the other hand, repents because he is scared, not out of love for God. Both men will be saved, but the murderer's soul will be purified not in this world, but in the flames of hell
>>801456
Fuck off Calvinist scum
>>801548
All of them say that genius
>>801332
comparison to their culture?
Pretty sure GOD has perfect organization for HIS morality.
>>801332
Haven't read the thread but invade it hasn't been brought up;
Among Christians there is an understandablly incongruous idea of what heaven and hell are like.
Simple minded, literal Bible and nothing else believers, tend to think there is heaven, and there is hell.
However many have a belief in a purgatory or limbo that people are placed in.
This is a place that is basically fine other than a permanent separation from god.
In the divine comedy Dante meets various philosophers and moralists in purgatory.
Some view the state as a process of purification, that many people would undergo where you over time become closer to god before joining god at essentially the end of time.
>>801543
>Christians don't go around calling other christians "protestants", so I too have my doubts.
They do. Pretty much all Catholic and Orthodox Christians call Protestant Christians "Protestants".
>CATHOLICS AREN'T CHRISTIANS
Suck my dick.
t. atheist.
>>801360
Since they did not know, they cannot be punished.
>>801360
The Jesuits wrote about the indigenous peoples of north america having stories that were kind-of-ish like stories from the Bible, and therefore they'd probably heard it all and forgotten it therefore needed baptism ASAP.
>>801567
>"scientific"
Are you implying science isn't useful, or are you saying the facts in question aren't scientifc?
>>802580
This is some great Bible fan fiction a bunch of half-retarded people came up with to rationalize the fully retarded reality of their small-minded belief system.
>>801332
Real Christians believe that everyone goes to Hell. No exceptions.
>>801332
Christobol Colon has seen some shit.
>>803970
>Colon
lol colon
Christians are sociopaths, who cares what delusions they hold.
>>801742
I could quote this entire post as a perfect example of autism. I don't think there's a single phrase, in form or content, that any normal person would ever utter. Then again, your insistence that I must literally quote a word-to-word phrase to 'prove' my point, and that you don't adress any of the more abstract point shows this obsession with the literal, and a complete inability to deal with more figurative, more general points that I'm trying to make
Face it, you're autistic, and your embrace of fundamentalist Christianity is really nothing more than a coping mechanism. It's effectively the only way you can interact with the social world, by just declaring everyone a 'sinner', which is basically everyone who is capable of engaging in social interaction, unlike you
>>801689
America has free speech, that even applies to chick who is basically on the same tier with the KKK
>>803955
I was raised protestant and this is not popularly known.
Personally I'm agnostic and if I try to imagine how a conceivable afterlife would function I find Dante's depiction is adequate.
The divine comedy is a very insightful story if you can get through it. It has good ideas even if just taken as allegory about the human condition.
