Why did Christianity spread like wild-fire across the Roman Empire but Judaism didn't?
No one wanted to chop a bit of their dick off.
because no emperor ever became jew.
>>796509
what is evangelical?
>>796512
Apart form the people of the Good Goynited States of America.
Because Judaism requires a lot more commitment and doesn't proselytize.
All it does is annoy the Romans and demand special privileges.
Judaism was an exclusive religion, for ethnic Jews only
A big debate in early Christianity was whether goyim should be allowed to join or not
Judaism got bad attitude about conversion of random people into it.
Judaism really wanted to remain a secret club and the autoimmune diseases they get from being endogamous is but a commitment thereto.
>>796543
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus
>Most scholars agree that Jesus was a Galilean, Jewish rabbi[23] who preached his message orally,[24] was baptized by John the Baptist, and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[25] In the current mainstream view, Jesus was an apocalyptic preacher and the founder of a renewal movement within Judaism, although some prominent scholars argue that he was not apocalyptic
>>796552
>Most scholars agree that Jesus was a Galilean, Jewish rabbi
"Scholars" replace "Judean" with "Jewish," but they are not interchangeable. If an ethnic Roman was born in Judea, he would have been a Judean. But, obviously he would not have been Jewish.
What is a "Jew?" If you mean an ethnic Jew like the Jews today, then Jesus was not a Jew.
>>796581
Jesus was an ethnic Jew though, not only that, but he was also a rabbi.
>>796509
Judaism is a very inclusive religion and back then you basically had to be an ethnic Jew.
Meanwhile Christianity had and has an active missionary operation, especially after people like Paul decided that it was okay to convert Gentiles
>>796633
I should also mention that even today, while goyim can actually convert to some forms of Judaism Jews have always been a bit xenophobic and encourage Jews to marry Jews.
>>796581
You use the word 'ethnic' like it is some sort of solution, but its not, its just make it more complicated. wtf is an "ethnic Roman" who was born in Judea? Do you mean like the son of say a proconsul ? than no he wouldnt have been considered a Judean by any means. In a similar manner that son wouldnt have been considered Greek or even Athenian if he was born in those places.
I don't know of scholars who irresponsibly interchange Judean and Jew, but I do know that since aprox 500 BC there are documented Jewish communities outside Judea, thus the distinction is meaningful.
The fact that Jesus was a jew is not really up to debate. Read the gospels or any description from antiquity of Jesus: he clearly and unequivocally says to people surrounding him to follow the commandments and be a good jew. Is he an orthodox/normative jew? of course not, but during the 1st century there were so many sects and versions of Judaism (for example the many descriptions found in the writings of Philo of Alexandria or even Josephus) that it is highly anachronistic to speak of any sect or movement as normative/orthodox Judaism.
>>796509
Christianity is like judaism, but it doesn't demand that you have to cut off part of your pee pee to convert.
>>796654
Ethnic by the rules of Judaism, matrilineally so mitochondrial DNA
>>796541
Christianity did too for a while, but the proselytizers won out, then Constantine converted and it's all history from there.
>>796509
Because Jews don't proselytize and furthermore most Jews believe quite firmly in keeping the Jewish faith ethnically Jewish.
>>796581
Exactly, judas was the only ethnically Jewish in the party of the twelve apostles and Jesus
>>796633
note that ancient writers did attribute to jews proselytizing efforts: Cassius Dio for example notes that it was the reason jews were expelled from Italy in AD 19 (Historia Romana 57.18)
>>796662
yea this is what rabbanic judaism wrote of ancient judaism in the centuries after the destruction of the 2nd temple, but this claim doesnt sit well with many ancient accounts. see 796684
>>796617
>Jesus was an ethnic Jew though,
No, he wasn't. He was an Israelite, and the Judeans were not as a whole Israelites.
>>796654
>its just make it more complicated
No, you just didn't understand what I said.
>wtf is an "ethnic Roman" who was born in Judea?
An ethnic Roman who was born in Judea. I said ethnic Roman to emphasize that they were not racially Jewish, but instead of the race of the Romans.
>proconsul?
What? I mean if say two Romans moved to Judea and had an ethnically Roman child. The child would be ethnically Roman because his two parents were Roman. But, if he lived in Judea he would have also been a Judean.
>In a similar manner that son wouldnt have been considered Greek or even Athenian if he was born in those places.
All of the residents of Judea were called Judeans, but they were by no means all actual Judeans. The Edomites were subdued and converted, and they became known as Judeans.
>I don't know of scholars who irresponsibly interchange Judean and Jew,
They all do. For example, the same way they do it, the Bible will also do it and replace "Judean" with "Jew" because they thought all of the Judeans were what are now called Jews.
>but I do know that since aprox 500 BC there are documented Jewish communities outside Judea, thus the distinction is meaningful.
"Jewish" communities noted by who? In what language? Greek? Because the word they translate "Jew" is always really "Judean".
>The fact that Jesus was a jew is not really up to debate.
It certainly is up for debate, because he was not a "Jew" in the modern sense at all.
>>796509
It didn't spread like wildfire at all. If Constantine hadn't converted to Christianity it would have remained just one religion amongst dozens of others. Until it gained traction amongst the elite (which it didn't until the 4th century) it was just a religion of the poor and disenfranchised urban proletariat, mainly in the eastern cities.
Judaism demands its followers do shit to differentiate themselves from non-Jews e.g. circumcision and certain food choices.
>>796509
>Why did Christianity spread like wild-fire across the Roman Empire but Judaism didn't?
Basically because by the time Christianity started to get big, around the 200's AD, Roman paganism was losing its appeal. Many Romans felt like their old gods weren't providing an adequate answer to all the really big questions in life and thus started to search abroad for new religions, mainly the eastern mystery cults, which Christianity was one of. These cults were often monotheistic, though not usually as exclusionary as the abrahamic faiths, and generally focused on more esoteric and philosophical answers to the mysteries of the universe. Christianity didn't get it's real big break though until Constantine converted to it, and after conquering the Empire from his rivals, decriminalized it and began to actively promote it, because of Constantine's policies on the religion it made it beneficial for people who were looking to gain political power in the government to convert to Christianity so that they could cozy up to the regime.
As for why Judaism didn't spread, it's mostly because Jews are pretty insular and don't try to spread their religion that much, also doesn't help that Judaism is pretty pagan in it's beliefs, and the fact that the Jews had been responsible to a number of destructive revolts, that made them and their religion unpalatable to the average Roman.
>>796654
>Read the gospels or any description from antiquity of Jesus:
What about them?
> he clearly and unequivocally says to people surrounding him to follow the commandments and be a good jew.
"Jew" was not a word used to define a religion, either. He never said to be a good "Jew," or what that word actually would have been, "Judean". He could have said to be a good "Hebrew," but that is not interchangeable with Jew, or Judean either.
Or do you have a source for "Jew" referring to a religion?
>>796698
>An ethnic Roman who was born in Judea. I said ethnic Roman to emphasize that they were not racially Jewish, but instead of the race of the Romans.
There was no race of Romans and no race of Jews. The Romans literally told themselves that they were collected and brought together from all the Mediterranean world by Romulus who founded a city supposedly before there were any inhabitants.
>The child would be ethnically Roman because his two parents were Roman. But, if he lived in Judea he would have also been a Judean.
No. If his parents were born in Italy he was a Roman citizen as opposed to most people born in Judea from parents who were born outside Italy who were considered peregrini.
When Tacitus or Sallust speak of Jews in Judea they are quite clear who they are referring to (followers of specific "superstitio", having specific customs). I am not familiar with any description which puts all the people living in Judea in one category as Judeans. care to cite one?
>They all do.
Lol no
>For example, the same way they do it, the Bible will also do it and replace "Judean" with "Jew" because they thought all of the Judeans were what are now called Jews.
>"Jewish" communities noted by who? In what language? Greek? Because the word they translate "Jew" is always really "Judean".
It is true that in ancient languages there is no clear distinction between Jew and Judean, but it doesn't matter for the fact that there were people living outside Judea who followed the religion centered in Jerusalem: read descriptions from Tacitus or Jospheus for example of how the city was crowded with pilgrims during the special holidays. Read Philo of Alexandria, who came from a jewish community in Alexandria. Even Cicero mentions jews in Rome.
>It certainly is up for debate, because he was not a "Jew" in the modern sense at all.
ofcourse he is not a jew in the modern sense of the word, because modern judaism is a modern development and didn't exist in antiquity.........
>>796730
Tacitus calls the jewish rite "superstitio":
for example book 2, 85: "There was a debate too about expelling the Egyptian and Jewish worship, and a resolution of the Senate was passed that four thousand of the freedmen class who were infected with those superstitions and were of military age should be transported to the island of Sardini"
actum et de sacris Aegyptiis Iudaicisque pellendis factumque patrum consultum ut quattuor milia libertini generis --- ea superstitione --- infecta quis idonea aetas in insulam Sardiniam veherentur
>>796758
>There was no race of Romans
The genetic race of the Romans. Obviously the Romans had a stock.
>and no race of the Jews
Jewish DNA exists. You can get a DNA test to see if you are Jewish. There are Jewish atheists.
>Romulus
Doesn't matter. The point still stands, a Roman child would be of some Roman genetics, not real Judean genetics, and yet still be a Roman genetically.
>No. If his parents were born in Italy he was a Roman citizen
Okay, if all of his grandparents were Romans.
>When Tacitus or Sallust speak of Jews in Judea they are quite clear who they are referring to
When? Can you give an example?
>I am not familiar with any description which puts all the people living in Judea in one category as Judeans. care to cite one?
What do you mean? When were they not all called Judeans?
>Lol no
They do. Just like most Bible translations will still translate Judean as "Jew" for the same reason. Which scholars say not all of the Judeans were "Jews"? They say it was a "Jewish" land. When do they not do this?
>It is true that in ancient languages there is no clear distinction between Jew and Judean,
It's not that there was no "clear" distinction, "Jew" was simply not a word, it was Judean and now they most of the time translate it as "Jew".
>but it doesn't matter for the fact that there were people living outside Judea who followed the religion centered in Jerusalem: read descriptions from Tacitus or Jospheus for example of how the city was crowded with pilgrims during the special holidays.
Did the historians refer to the pilgrims as "Judeans"?
>Read Philo of Alexandria, who came from a jewish community in Alexandria.
I doubt any Greeks were somehow converted to Judaism, so are you sure Philo's community was not from Palestine?
>Even Cicero mentions jews in Rome.
I know.
>>796758
>ofcourse he is not a jew in the modern sense of the word, because modern judaism is a modern development and didn't exist in antiquity.........
When you say someone was a Jew, you would assume you are saying they are the same thing that is now called "Jew".
Also, what do you mean didn't exist in antiquity? What are you saying was missing?
>>796786
He also said Egyptian worship. Would "Egyptian Worship" not be defined as what ever the Egyptians did as worship?
>>796509
I don't believe the jews actively recruited religious members like early christians did.
Or during any time period for that matter.
While their religion is tightly woven has possesses some benefits, they are also easily alienable in society (kind of a drawback).
>>796855
>Also, what do you mean didn't exist in antiquity? What are you saying was missing?
well, a Jew back went to the temple in Jerusalem at least a few times a year (for most Jews who lived outside Judea it probably meant going once in a lifetime) to sacrifice. from AD 70 there is no more sacrificing, just studying and praying. Additionally nowadays Jews are following laws not only written in the Bible, but written from the 3rd to 17th century in many parts of the world (Babylonian Talmud, Shulhan Aruh from Tzfat etc), back in antiquity all those laws simply didnt exist.
>He also said Egyptian worship. Would "Egyptian Worship" not be defined as what ever the Egyptians did as worship?
Ok, but still he defines Egyptian identity not only as where you physically are but as religious practices aswell.
>>796684
And there were forced conversions during Alexander Jannaeus' conquests.
>>796518
>Implying Americans who get circumcised have any say in the matter
Someone decided to cut my foreskin off before I even knew how it felt to urinate.
>>796943
>I didn't get to decide to do with my own body
>Because of that I am gonna go do the same thing against my child!
Why don't that get more attention?
Everyone is bitching about Religious cloths and a few of irellevant inbred faggots holding up signs somewhere, but none cares about the millions of US babies getting their foreskin cut of every year without any good reasons at all.
>>796951
>Religious
My family is Catholic, this had nothing to do with religion. I don't understand why it's so common when only like 2 or 3 percent of the country is Jewish.
>>796951
I personally don't plan on circumcising any children I have, and I try to inform any else I've ever had a converstion with on the subject to do the same. however culture is hard to fight, and circumcision is pretty ingrained in American culture at this point (American women even think uncircumcised dicks look weird or gross), and all thanks to some prude wanting to prevent people from masturbating in the 20's.
>>796959
Basically a bunch of people in the early 20th century thought that circumcision would reduce the prevalence in venereal disease, and people in the various religious movements and revivals in the 1920's felt it would cut down on masturbation, pleasure during sex, and all other sins and evils associated with the male genitalia ( no one cared about women, because they as a rule don't enjoy sex, orgasm, or masturbate ). These forces combined to make circumcision a common medical practice,and since then it's mostly just been running on inertia and tradition since the movements that led to it becoming common have since died.
>>796829
>The genetic race of the Romans. Obviously the Romans had a stock.
Prove it. Right now.
>>796509
Seriously? Judaism is a tribal religion, so insular that conversion is only encouraged if one is completely immersed in Jewish society already, or truly wants to become a Jew.
Christianity is all about finding new followers and spreading news of the impending apocalypse. Until the adoption of Christianity as Rome's state religion, most adherents of that faith believed the reckoning was going to happen in their lifetime.
>>796543
Jesus was absolutely a Jew. Nothing suggests otherwise.
>>796509
It didn't spread like wildfire, though. It took around 300 years to hit 10% of the population.
because anyone could basically become a Christian, whereas Jews were the chosen people and didn't want anyone else in their secret club
a genius move by early Christianity, really
>>796509
Judaism isn't a proselytizing faith.
