>Every war the United States was involved in after World War II was and is unjustified.
/his/ will argue against this.
>>776683
What about the Korean war?
Was Operation Uphold Democracy really that bad?
>>776683
>korean war
>first gulf war
>intervention against IS
I think the Iraq War was justified or how else do you propose we could have stopped Osama's reign of terror? World is safer place now.
What about the handsupian war to restore Zimmerman and Wilson to justice?
>>776683
Justifications are for the weak.
>>776715
But how else am I supposed to getting a -3 stability hit?
>>776734
to avoid getting*
>>776683
>the Korean war
>war in Afghanistan
>first Gulf War
>intervention in the former Yugoslavia
>intervention against the Islamic State
>unjustified
Is this just low effort bait? Or do you unironically believe this?
Absolutely correct. First Gulf War is semi-justifiable, though it did include oil interests as a major cause, the backing of a rather ethically questionable ally, and a lot of colateral civilian damage from the air campaign.
To respond to the other anon:
Korean War: dickwaving in a foreign land to fight an ideology with bullets
Intervention against IS: a complete fucking joke, anything less than a full scale invasion and 10+ year occupation makes us ineffectual pussies. we created them by being the retards who went to Iraq in the first place and then didn't have the stomach to occupy and stabilize the country nearly long enough.
>>776683
>didn't conquer anything
>places a few military bases around the world that are just more useless expenses your taxes pay
>>776742
>Korean War: dickwaving in a foreign land to fight an ideology with bullets
And that makes it unjustifiable, how?
>>776742
>we created them by being the retards who went to Iraq in the first place and then didn't have the stomach to occupy and stabilize the country nearly long enough.
You stayed over a decade.
>>776742
When one nation clearly invades another and not a single member of the United Nations Security Council opposes a resolution to defend said invaded nation, it's a really long stretch to say that American involvement in accordance with international law wasn't justified.
>>776742
>intervening to defend the concept of institutionally guaranteed sovreignty is 'dick-waving'
No, it's institutional peace theory in action you fucking twat.
>>776759
surprise surprise, turns out it takes more than 11 years to stabilize a nation with warring ethnic groups and an active insurgency, especially when your military cannot into hearts and minds
>>776702
>World is safer place now.
>>776683
The only justification force needs is ability you faggot OP.
>>776779
>surprise surprise, turns out it takes more than 11 years to stabilize a nation with warring ethnic groups and an active insurgency, especially when your military cannot into hearts and minds
No. After 11 years you have failed and are going to continue to fail no matter how long you stay.
>>776742
>we created them
No. IS is an off shoot of al-qaeda.
Plenty were justified, but only if you agree with the United States trying to police other nations, which I don't.
Isolationism baby fuck europe fuck asia
>>776840
It's a tad more complicated than that. Al-Qaeda had no existence in Iraq prior to the US invading it. None at all.
The destruction of Iraqi society led to the conditions that allowed first Al-Qaeda and then their offshoot ISIS to establish a foothold in Iraq in the first place.
Not only that but the ISIS leadership actually consists of Al-Qaeda and Baathist generals that the US put out of work.
>>776780
>he Saddam, take half the world's oil supply
>I'm sure the house of Saud and Zionist will be k with that
>>776849
Then they fuck you.
Like it or not the US, as the sole superpower, is stuck with being the world police.
Or would you prefer the PRC to be the ones controlling the seas.
>>776817
This is basically completely true. We shit the bed then burned the house down when it came to Iraq, total FUBAR.
>>778069
Actually, fuck you, no, we're not. At what point in history exactly did it become the standard rule that if you have more power than anyone else, or to adjust for before superpowers, anyone nearby you, you have to just selflessly take up the cause of anyone being victimized by their state?
That is the same idiotic, warped belief in democracy being so fucking great for everyone that led to Vietnam, to Korea, to second Iraq war, i.e. our absolute most miserable wars of the 20th and 21st century.
Just because people's rights are being abused in a place that isn't America doesn't mean it automatically becomes America's responsibility to go out and fucking handle it for them. Want proof? Look at the places we were before. Didn't do them a whole hell of a lot of good, or if it did at all, only after some really fucked up things had to happen first. And in the long run, it didn't do us any real good either, just created more problems that we still have to deal with to this day.
World police? Fuck you.
>>776691
A proxy war to preserve a shitty pro-US dictatorship. Nice fucking job on that one, it only took a few hundred thousand corpses to achieve basically nothing.
>>780413
>At what point in history exactly did it become the standard rule that if you have more power than anyone else, or to adjust for before superpowers, anyone nearby you, you have to just selflessly take up the cause of anyone being victimized by their state?
Since forever, any nation with significant power over their neighbors that doesn't exercise that power will proceed to lose it. Stagnation inevitably leads to decay.
>That is the same idiotic, warped belief in democracy being so fucking great for everyone that led to Vietnam, to Korea, to second Iraq war, i.e. our absolute most miserable wars of the 20th and 21st century
If you're ideology is so great, and so beneficial, and so morally righteous, why wouldn't you attempt to spread it? In fact if you believe it's the best system possible, then there is a moral imperative to spread that system to as many people as possible.
>Just because people's rights are being abused in a place that isn't America doesn't mean it automatically becomes America's responsibility to go out and fucking handle it for them.
When good men see injustice and evil and do nothing about it, they can no longer be called good men.
America is at it's base a moral nation not a pragmatic one. Our national ideals, and in fact the Nation itself, are founded upon a certain moral narrative and righteousness.
>>776683
>Needing justification when you're a superpower
Let me guess, you believe in a "global community" too?
>>780475
(Continued)
It may have been fine to ignore the suffering of others when our nation was small and weak, but with power come a necessity to act otherwise we must question the entire foundation of our nation.
While I don't particularly agree with America having such global responsibilities, I'm also aware of the non-pragmatic nature of our nation, so I don't question the necessity of it. Changing our foreign policy to be more domestic would require a major political or economic change of circumstances, that I would rather live without.
>>776683
>wwII justified
If the war were just we would have started it. We absolutely did not want that war.
>ever war any nation was involved in after World War II was and is unjustified
/his/ will argue against this
>>776683
Zero. That would be zero wars. Because wars have declarations of war, and there have been none issued by the Congress since WWII.
You have instead police actions, and UN enforcement actions, and use of force declarations, etc. No wars.
>>780490
>claiming moral responsibility
Couple other pretty interesting governments I can think of have tried playing that card to. USSR or Nazi Germany or Maoist China ring any bells?
And again, that's fucking ridiculous. So, after we come up with a blueprint for a working egalitarian democracy, once we've got the strength we need to protect ourselves we now also by default have accept the responsibility to go and make sure everyone else gets the exact thing from us? That is:
1. Astoundingly arrogant of us to assume that EVERYONE just wants what we have because it's so awesome!
2. Just begging to create all the same problems we have right now (North Korea, ISIS, Al-Qaeda, etc)
3. Not fucking possible.
Attempting to spread our ideology is one thing, but assuming that we become evil men just because we don't want to jump into every awful thorny clusterfuck that happens in the world is stupid. There has to be a line to what we can and can't, will and won't do. American isn't always going to be around and by your logic the rest of the world is FUCKED when we're not.
A state needs to be able to solve its own internal problems to survive lest it be replaced by a stronger state than what was before. Way of the world, not our problem.
>>780730
>USSR or Nazi Germany or Maoist China ring any bells?
What makes you think the US is fundamentally different from these? America is an ideologically based nations, and such nations found themselves on the principle of being morally correct, it's why they are so dangerous.
> American isn't always going to be around and by your logic the rest of the world is FUCKED when we're not.
Not saying that at all. The world will roll on just fine. The problem is that America was founded with the idea, and this idea has been hammered into our heads since most of us were old enough to read, that our egalitarian democracy is the best systems in the world. When you think that obviously you are going to try and spread it around, because why wouldn't you, as a morally decent person, want to better the lives of those around you by forcing the most beneficial system ever devised upon them? It's in their own best interest after all. If not then you start having to question the validity of your belief in that ideology, and who wants to do that?
>A state needs to be able to solve its own internal problems to survive lest it be replaced by a stronger state than what was before. Way of the world, not our problem.
That would be all well and good if America were a pragmatic nation and not an ideologically based moral one. There is a moral imperative in the average American mind that our system makes us morally superior, thus obligating us to help others.
>>780766
What makes you think good is better than evil?
>>776683
I used to think the war in the Balkans was justified. Nah.
>>780801
>when he poses a philosophically masturbatory question
>>776702
>Iraq War
>Osama
>>776702
>Osama
>Iraq
hmmmm...what?
>>776702
I know this is bait but I like it for several reasons. The foremost is that you're obviously talking about the 2nd Gulf war. However, you could always claim you actually spoke about the 1st one and going on about how the 1st one actually never ended, thus keeping it /his/ related due to the 25 year rule.
>unjustified
And I suppose we have to use your obtuse code of ethics to argue against this?
>>776683
I'd say
Every war the United States was involved in after 1991 was and is unjustified.
