Was America justified in the internment of its citizens who happened to be of Japanese descent?
Was there ever a real possibility of a Japanese-American "fifth column" undermining the US war effort?
Does this deed, and the subsequent heroism of the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, shame the United States?
American internment camps were not that bad. There was no skeletal figures like that.
But the 'reparations' the US paid them was laughably small. If you're interned when you run a small shop or business, your whole life is ruined.
>>740403
America is pure scum though, especially in WWII. No one knows (in America) that they pardoned war criminals who conducted disgusting experiments on other human beings, both Japanese and Germans. But they 'won', so they are the good guys.
>>740414
my senpai had a mid sized business which was sold for pennies when they were interned. we had nothing when we got back out. our house had been burned down.
my family was angry, but rebuilt. we're rich again. reparations would be nice, but what would be better is if people left law abiding citizens alone, and PUNISHED criminals.
I don't want no punishment just because we were hurt. I want more punishment, but only for criminals.
japanese were and remain models citizens because we're not subhumans.
as is, we're probably leaving. this country has no respect for anyone but criminals.
>>740504
I'm sad to see a countryman of mine go. You'll be missed, I'm genuinely sorry what some of us have forced you to do. Know that I and others did not want this.
>>740484
Like who? Why did they pardon them?
>>740549
thanks man.
we're not angry anymore, not about hte past. but we're angry about the present.
in our culture, honor, status, and voice are given to those who obey the law and work hard. here we are in this country, working hard, obeying the law, and assimilating, yet criminals have more voice than we do. nope. not gonna tolerate that.
best of luck to you. where I'm headed, I won't get shot, at least.
>>740584
Knowledge.
Unit 731:
>Instead of being tried for war crimes, the researchers involved in Unit 731 were given immunity by the U.S. in exchange for their data on human experimentation.
>In other tests, subjects were deprived of food and water to determine the length of time until death; placed into high-pressure chambers until death; experimented upon to determine the relationship between temperature, burns, and human survival; placed into centrifuges and spun until death; injected with animal blood; exposed to lethal doses of x-rays; subjected to various chemical weapons inside gas chambers; injected with sea water; and burned or buried alive.
Operation Paperclip:
> Truman's order expressly excluded anyone found "to have been a member of the Nazi Party
>However, those restrictions would have rendered ineligible most of the leading scientists whom the JIOA had identified for recruitment, among them rocket scientists Wernher von Braun, Kurt H. Debus, and Arthur Rudolph, as well as physician Hubertus Strughold, each earlier classified as a "menace to the security of the Allied Forces."
>These experiments included physiological tests during which camp inmates were immersed in freezing water, placed in air pressure chambers and made to endure invasive surgical procedures without anesthetic. Many of the inmates forced to participate died as a result.
>>740606
Any Japanese scientists pardoned?
Sparing a bunch of rocket scientists doesn't seem stupid given the atmosphere with Russia. Were any of the rocket scientists involved in camp tests?
>>740634
it's not stupid, but it's exceptionally morally dubious to pardon war criminals because they may aid you militarily.
>>740638
Were any of the pardoned rocket scientists involved in camp tests?
>>740634
>Wernher von Braun
Rocket scientists are perhaps the only ones which made sense to pardon, most Japanese scientists involved in Unit 731 were pardoned, there is a documentary on them on Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYQK98d0wQM) which features many people involved in the atrocities speaking out about what they did and how the world pretty much ignored them, pic related.
It's really no wonder why China has said fuck th world, we gunna fuck you all soon enough.
>>740403
Internment of people with connections to countries you're in total war with: justified
Confiscation of property or neglect to those interned: unjustified
>>740638
no one cares, pull your head out your bum. was it morally dubious to support communists throughout the war? the same communists who committed genocides on the score of 100 million people, who were apparently so dangerous that after we defeated the fascists we immediately allied with these "evil" people back against the communists? and that immediately after the cold war deposing the socialists states, we immediately started enacting socialist legislation? legislation that communist "socialist republics" enacted before us, such as gay civil unions, free education, subsidized healthcare, such as equal pay for women and ethnic minorities, affirmative action, etc.?
who cares. we were on the winning side. never necessarily the good side.
>>740403
>Was America justified in the internment of its citizens who happened to be of Japanese descent?
From our modern perspective? Yes. However from the perspective of 1942 American which had just suffered a surprise attack, it's understandable. It's always easy to look back with hindsight and condemn the actions of those whose times we did not live through.
>Was there ever a real possibility of a Japanese-American "fifth column" undermining the US war effort?
No not really. There were some spies, but no substantial evidence has been presented that indicates that Japanese-American were a serious threat to the nation at the time.
>Does this deed, and the subsequent heroism of the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, shame the United States?
Yes, but there are arguably far more shameful parts of American history to be ashamed of, Wounded Knee springs to mind.
>>740653
That was another of MacArthur's fuck ups. The dumbshit lost the Philippines, spared Unit 731, almost lost Korea and threatened to turn it into an atomic war.
Thank god he got sacked.
>>740660
>Internment of people with connections to countries you're in total war with: justified
Even if the only connection is that you share genetic heritage with them?
Even if you were born in America, speak English instead of Japanese, attended American schools and identify as an American (which you are)?
That's bullshit m8.
>>740676
The officials don't know that. Good spies are capable of infiltrating very effectively. It's much easier if you take a stance that "We're rounding up all the Germans in the town and keeping you in a secluded but comfortable area for the duration of the war. It's not fun, fair, or just, but what would be worse is the potential even one actual infiltrator has to undermine the war effort."
The way us in the Americas did it was bullshit and racist, there's no denying that, but there are examples from history as to the damage infiltrators can do. Accepting it as an ugly but possibly effective tactic while minimizing the harm to the point of inconvenience rather than malice is a justifiable action.
And yes, if Canada went to war with Ireland, I'd accept internment under those conditions I just outlined, not the ones Japs actually dealt with.
>>740584
They pardoned Shiro Ishii and in return got his "work"
>>740676
japanon here
what you white people need to understand is that just because you TELL another culture to abide by your rules doesn't mean they will.
japanese have been here a long time. let me tell you, as american as they try to be they do NOT think the same way.
we still have asian values. we exist in such small numbers that it doesn't effect you. but on a large scale, we would turn a country into a new japan, just as mexicans are turning southern california into a new mexico.
we do NOT share your values. we never will. we don't kill people so it's not such a big problem, but if you act this way towards someone who is dangerous, you end up with a germany/sweden situation. you can pretend otherwise, but the consequences will only harm you.
>>740599
>here we are in this country, working hard, obeying the law, and assimilating, yet criminals have more voice than we do. nope. not gonna tolerate that.
What are you talking about? Go ask anyone if a criminal has more rights than a working Japanese-American. Stop being a faggot.
>>740403
Americans are gonna look back in 60 years at Gitmo and ask, wow did we really need to condemn those innocent Muslims after 9/11?
Honestly not a perfect analogy, but Pearl Harbor seemed similar, or at least there could be a targeted ethnic group
>>740634
Unit 731 was Japanese, champ.
>>740753
That's bullshit. I'm Japanese-American, and I am an American. I never learned Japanese and I don't care to.
And most Japanese-Americans are like me, and they were then too.
>>740774
Who said it wasn't, champ?
>>740782
Don't bother, anon. He's probably an insecure AsianMasculinity fag who feeds off of propaganda borne out of seeing white men having sex with Asian women, because you know, the obvious response to that is to become virulently anti-Western and pro-anything-Asian.
>>740782
you must be on the lower end of the iq scale, I was talking about values, not language.
>>740795
so you fight for a multicultural agenda using... racism.
interesting.
>>740799
Nice attempt at damage control.
>>740819
japanese americans DON'T think like the rest of americans. most of us have forgiven the government and don't care.
meanwhile most americans want to sue the government for various forms of racism.
you can try to pretend our culture and values just disappear, but it clearly doesn't. if japanese are the same as all americans, and all immigrant assimilate, why do we stil work so much harder, and have so much more money than 3rd generation mexicans?
the same mexicans that are suing the government for racism, when they weren't even thrown in camps. I think, that MAYBE these people don't share our humility.
who knows though, obviously you're so smart and you know everything.
>>740847
>japanese americans DON'T think like the rest of americans
Yeah we do.
>>740807
I'm Chinese-American and I find it odd that you ramble on about Asian values as if such a monolithic thing actually exists. There are definitely Chinese values, Japanese values, Korean values, etc. If you really wanted to be in tune with Japanese values historically speaking, you would attempt to distance yourself from "Asian" values as much as possible.
>>740847
>if japanese are the same as all americans, and all immigrant assimilate, why do we stil work so much harder, and have so much more money than 3rd generation mexicans?
Because the average Mexican is poor as fuck and they work the jobs nobody else wants to do for shit pay. Why are Cantonese in Chinatowns poor and Taiwanese living in the suburbs much richer? Don't they have the same culture and values?
>>740865
CHINKY DINKY FIVE DORRAH
>>740865
He's probably that guy who spammed race and its correlation with IQs. East Asians are superior race than Whites, man. It's objective fact. Why adopt inferior Whiteman decadent culture, when the native ones are more superior and industrious?
>>740865
your reading comprehension is lacking. I made a generalization, which was applicable to the situation, and you're instructing me on how I could have written what YOU want me to write. that's nice, I don't care
you people are trying to pretend values don't exist. that as soon as we step foot on this magic dirt, it all just disappears.
whatever gets your rocks off, I guess
some of the most prominent people in the country write books about this very issue, and very, VERY few people pretend that cultural values aren't persistent.
in fact, isn't that the "value" of multiculturalism, that they DO bring their values? or are we a monoculture where all immigrants must act completely american?
you people can't seem to make up your mind.
Only 20 years prior we (in Canada at least) were imprisoning Germans, Hungarians,Austrians and even Ukrainians in internment camps for the exact same reasons the Japanese were. Many more died then the Japanese did.
There was never a campaign like the Japs to raise a single noticeable complaint was raised by these internees, they never saw a penny of compensation, even after being interned two years after the war ended
>>740894
Values don't disappear entirely, but they can be neutered over time to the point where you get >>740782. They're a good baseline for how well a family will be able to reach a higher economic standing, but that's about it. A few generations in and the traditional values are nearly gone, replaced with whatever values their neighbors and peers hold. Or, they begin to identify with people that look more like them than whites and thus a general "Asian-American" identity is born, which in my opinion discards the values of the original culture almost as much as full assimilation does.
>in fact, isn't that the "value" of multiculturalism, that they DO bring their values? or are we a monoculture where all immigrants must act completely american?
I can't say, this is a good question that I don't think anyone can answer without there being tons of exceptions to either viewpoint.
>>740784
>Any Japanese scientists pardoned?
Either you didn't think they were Japanese or you didn't think they were scientists.
>>741195
Or he wasn't aware that the scientists were pardoned since none were listed. Durr.
>>740664
>who cares. we were on the winning side. never necessarily the good side.
it's a natural reaction against the 'untarnished land of liberty protector of the oppressed' image we are spoonfed from childhood about america.
Anything is justified in war.
End of discussion.
>>740504
Deal with it, it was wartime and Japanese ultranationalists were the most dangerous people on the planet during WWII.
>>740504
>because we're not subhumans
Get fucked you little yellow monkey man
>>740403
I always comically wonder if the same couldve happened to German Americans
>Guys, intern them all, now.
>Millions in camps.
>>740911
>Ukrainians
why? because of the Communist insurrection?
>>743757
>ultranationalists
MEGARACISM
HYPERMETANATIONALISM
SUPERBIGOTRY
>>743763
I know right.
Good luck putting 30%-35% of the population of the United States behind barbed wire, and trying to fight a war too.
>>743750
>Anything is justified in war.
t. civilian NEET
>>740671
MacArthur was such a fucking incompetent moron, not only that, he was a complete fucking cunt too
>>743779
Not a NEET, but certainly a civilian.
And yes, anything is justified in war if you want to win.
>>740504
America is just shit dude. Sorry.
>>743770
Do you even know what nationalism is? are you really equating it with bigotry and racism? You're the problem with the West, fucker.
Why don't Leftists complain about the way Soviets treated literally everybody under their rule during WWII but cry about the most humane internment of the 20th century like it was another Shoah?
>>743779
He's right though. People on this board are always trying to look at the morality of this and that. Morality doesnt exist in politics or war, grow up ya dorks.
>>743779
He's right
>>740665
> Yes. However from the perspective of 1942 American which had just suffered a surprise attack, it's understandable.
No, Korematsu vs. US proved it was a moral issue that violated inalienable rights. 3 justices dissented, saying it was both illegal and wrong. The other 6 justices merely concurred based on the fact that there might be some military necessity, and it was legal under wartime powers, and fully admitted, in times of peace, it would be wrong and illegal. It was never morally or ethically correct. In the end, it was never justified, because there is basically no proof of a 5th column or whatever.
Also consider, they didn't intern any Japanese in Hawaii, the territory that actually got surprise attacked, because they made up such a large part of the population and were necessary to keep Hawaii running, and Hawaii was an important strategic asset. If you could trust a large percentage Japanese in an important strategic asset within range of Japanese attacks, why could you not trust Japanese in the mainland, not within reach of the Japanese military, and with far fewer numbers?
It might be understandable how people gave into fear. That doesn't mean it was ever right. By that logic, only lunatics are every wrong, if being able to understand the logic behind a decision is the basis of moral judgement.
>>743719
Saying Unit 731 scientists were pardoned is enough. Or does anon need to list out every name of each scientist who totally did not try deleting his record post war?
