Does anyone else find themselves switching between non-beleif and Christianity every few months?
I keep going between deism and Catholicism every 3 months it seems. What should I do?
Christpost on /his/. Whatever you believe at a given time, argue vigorously for the exact opposite. It will help you determine what you actually believe and what you know to say because it's been drilled into you. For example, I realized that I am not actually Orthodox and Catholicism really does make more sense to me, despite my upbringing.
>>713411
>tfw can't tell if he's telling the truth about his spiritual development or if he's an Orthodox arguing as a Catholic
I do like the idea of false flagging being good for the soul though.
>>713392
No. Because no true Christian goes to non beleif
>>713769
...Or scotsman eh?
Would you recommend I convert to Catholicism?
>>713392
Nope, I've been firmly Muslim for years. Where I fall on the Islamic belief spectrum hasn't changed either falling loosely under the 'Salafi' ideology.
>>713392
Realize that Catholicism supports Divine Conservation so the core of the decision depends on if you believe reality spins on its own or if it is maintained in each moment.
>>713392
Yes mate. A lot of christianity doesnt make sense in moments of doubt or theres a vague explanation that you have to be deluded to believe.
Islam with (non devine) Jesus as the prophet and christian aesthetics would be the best religion.
>>713773
No true Scotsman draws attention to blatant fallacies.
>>713392
I became a Christian after questioning for years whether it was indoctrination. It was at the end of my MA. I kept coming back to the deeply social message of what Jesus was saying, his tolerance. I have never accepted religion as a form of intolerance. That was the biggest issue for me. For me, Christ is about acceptance and love. In this context I have found a deep and affirming way of working and sharing with others, regardless of their background, their lifestyle, their sexuality, their religion.
>>713392
Write down what you believe and why you believe in it. Refer to it when you find yourself switching, and either reaffirm your beliefs or alter them to reflect new arguments/evidence.
>>714122
Why can't you value acceptance and love regardless of your personal religion, or more so I mean why do you consider these as aspects of Christian theology?
>>713392
>What should I do?
Realize that 4chan is inherently contrarian
>>714137
The character of Christ is what determines my outlook
>>714139
No it isn't.
>>714163
:^)
>>713392
My beliefs don't really change, but the degree of faith I have in them does. Sometimes, it's hard to stick with something. Most of the time, it's not that I find something more true or that makes better sense, it's just that I want to find something other than the old beliefs (But nothing better ever comes along).
No matter how much I might dislike it, I still haven't found anything better than belief in God, despite his seemingly cruel nature. Maybe I simply like the idea of having something to attribute things happening to.
>>713775
The Roman Catholic organization is not Christian. They do not follow the Bible, but instead follow their catechisms and additional books added onto the Bible (both of which were written by man and demon) which they use to trump the parts of the Bible they don't like.
For example: Rome teaches that works are required to be saved, when the Bible teaches that faith in Jesus alone is all that is required, and it is being saved that motivates good works. When the thief on the cross is pointed out, those who follow Rome simply dismiss it
>>714985
Fun fact: Christianity predates the Gospels.
>>713411
>Making lateral moves is beneficial.
>>713775
There's no conversion, there's just joining. Nothing spiritual happens when you place yourself under the bondage of Rome. Or Constantinople.
>>714008
Deny Jesus is God, go to hell. Great plan.
>>715099
And both predate the Catholic church by centuries.
>>715122
>Christianity predates Catholicism
>>715127
By centuries, yes. Pagan Rome did not become Pagan Catholic Rome until 325 AD, whereas Jesus rose from the dead in 32 AD.
>>713411
i was raised catholic but lately feel like orthodox makes more sense. orthodox only believes in the early church right? and catholics believe in the revisions they made right? i feel like jesus' message would become more corrupt with time so wouldnt it make sense to believe in the earliest church? actually im skeptical of anything "divine" in christianity, its just a culture with some good ideas. but if i was to take them serious orthodox makes more sense.
>>715142
How about doing what the bible tells you to do to be saved, instead of joining a club and hoping they can save you?
>>714122
>jesus' message helps me work well with others therefore jesus is the son of god.
I dont see how that necessarily follows
Not really
I hit full on fedora years ago, but I still enjoy the Catholic Church because of the community it brings together and it's a part of my cultural heritage.
I also get to watch protestants go into autistic rage when they realize that catholicism is still a thing. So it's a win-win.
>>715127
Catholicism (from Greek kαθολιkισμός, katholikismos, "universal doctrine") -wiki
jesus gave a message. later the early church established the "doctrine" of jesus message.
christianity came first. after the doctrine was written down it became catholicism
>>715155
some one reads the bible and theyre orthodox
some one else reads the exact same bible and their catholic
how is it possible to have 2 different conclusions after reading the same thing and how do you know who is right?
simply "go read the bible" doesnt seem to help much. got anymore enlightening ideas?
>>715174
After the Romans couldn't kill all the Christians, it became Catholicism.
And yet, there have always been Christians who were not murdered by Rome, and did not bend the knee to the Whore of Babylon.
Me, for one.
>>715187
You seem to be under the misapprehension that catholics read the bible.
They do not.
They are told it is incomprehensible to them, and that it requires their experts to tell them what it means.
It's been that way for 1700 years.
Take the risk and read Romans 10 for yourself.
>>715272
>You seem to be under the misapprehension that most Christians read the bible.
FTFY. Most people are perfectly happy just going to church and letting someone else tell them what the Bible says, with out putting much thought into it at all. Which is a real shame considering how many people fought and died so that the book could be printed in any language.
>1000 +1016
>being anything other then gnostic
>still worshipping the demiurge
>>715269
There was no secret group of Christians in the ancient world that did not follow a bishop and believed in only following the scriptures.
Your ideas on early Christianity are a fantasy.
>>715308
Catholic mass in Latin. People do not understand Latin. They go home knowing no more than when they arrived.
Christian sermon on one verse. The people understand one verse better than they did when they arrived.
I agree with you on one thing; if you are going to a church, and they are not reading and studying the bible, you are wasting your time. You may as well put your tithes into a nice country club and go for a swim.
>>715367
None in Ethiopia? None in Egypt? None in Persia? None in Turkey? None in Russia?
You sure?
>>715447
>They're the ones who compiled it you dumb prod bastard.
kek
Bible finished and disseminated in 95 AD
325 some catholics "compile" the bible from books written centuries before. Take credit for entire bible.
>>715482
It's not about fucking knowledge you literal heretic.
It's about the Sacrament.
>>715489
There is nothing sacred in the Vatican, or in any of its spawn points.
It is the most evil institution on earth.
>>715485
Yes they were all under a bishop, and held traditon as past down through the bishop equal or supeior to scripture.
The only groups without bishops were people like the gnostics who believed in salvation through knowledge and two Gods, they read a bunch of books not in scripture
>>715366
>gnostic
Literally Jewish witchcraft.
>>715308
I don't see why that's a shame. As a layman, I don't care to sit and attempt to interpret something that people have spent 2000 years trying to divine meaning from. I'll trust some guys who feel like dedicating their life to understanding all facets of the scripture and take their word for it so I can continue on with more mundane tasks.
Seriously, it boggles my mind why people think they can read a few passages here and suddenly know just as much as someone who have spent the better part of their life researching and referencing everything to piece a more complete message together.
I have no Slav ancestry. Am I allowed to do Eastern Orthodox?
>>715965
Because one of Christs principle teachings is that everyone should devote their life to the understanding of God, his works, and his word. By being lazy and just letting someone else do the work for you, you're actually not being a good Christian, if you want a religion like that, try Islam.
>>716054
Nah mate. I don't see any point in retreading ground that people have went over for two thousand years. It's an endless task in which you'll never arrive at an ultimate truth until you're called from this world, so let it fall to men who have the desire, knowledge, and mind to push it forward and develop it into theology.
None of this is to say I don't read the bible and do a little research to confirm what's being taught to avoid following a grossly incorrect path, but going over everything with a fine-tooth comb and creating my own ideas from it when I'm not qualified to do so is foolishness. Theology isn't a science you can empirically prove and disprove theories in, and thus will always be in a state of flux without authorities on it.
>>715487
>>715495
Grew up fundamentalist protestant (literalist sola scriptura) and lost the faith entirely a couple years ago. It boggles my mind how people still don't know that the "holy new testament", set apart from other claims of revelation from christians, is a Catholic establishment. One made under Constantine, who's sole religious goal was unification under one rule, for which a canonized scrinsure was imperative.
Faith blinds otherwise intelligent people from the dumb-shit obvious like nothing else in existence.
>>716145
Scripture*
>>713392
I usually pick Balbasaur. Oh wait...
>>713392
Sinnerman where you gonna run to? Sinnerman where you gonna run to?
>>716014
Of course you can, just find an Orthodox Church. I am French myself, and I go in a russian Church in my city. They do the liurgy in French and Russian. The orthodox liturgy if beautiful.
>>713392
No I actually believe more every day passing since I became orthodox.
Thinking about becoming a monk, need to play my cards right and leave my family safe.
>>713392
I have come to the conclusion that a propagation of a belief in a God or Gods is neccessary in order to validate a culture's existence.
We in the West get told that we have no culture, and that is why mass immigration is fine and good, because the immigrants have something we don't.
In order to kill this argument once and for all I think we need to go back to some form of Religion, as it is a vital part of formalising a nation's culture and ensuring that it continues to exist.
But no, I do not believe in God. But I will pretend to in order to keep a sense of national identity, and I honestly believe that's what the vast majority of the human race has been doing all along, whether they realise it or not.
>>715447
>where in scripture does it say that the only source of religious authority is scripture
His Word is absolutely sufficient in itself (Psalm 119:160)
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar"
(Proverbs 30:5-6)
Since the Bible is the final authority, we should look to it as the final authenticating and inerrant source of all spiritual truth.
Since the Bible does not approve of the Catholic Church's Sacred Tradition, along with its inventions of prayer to Mary, prayer to the saints, indulgences, penance, purgatory, etc., then neither should Christians.
>>718364
You always talk about the catholic church, but it was only one of many churches that sprung up from the early Christianity, and the thing is all those churches looked pretty similar, led by bishops and holding sacred tradition equal to scripture.
So the question must be asked, where did people like you come in? not in the ancient world, not until the the middle ages was there anyone with your belief in the supremacy of scripture.
>>718403
Anon, don't you know that real Christianity was invented by a 16th century German man? Thankfully he came and saved us from those misguided ideology of those sinful and false churches that had direct ties to the apostles.
>>713392
read the passage on the final destruction of israel
that reaffirms my fiath every day
>>713938
Wolfshiem I have a question about what it means to be a "real question"
My Protestant father has a lot of extremly unorthodox views. He doesn't beleive in the trinity or that Jesus is God, he says "Jesus is higher than an angel but lower than God". He also thinks the holy spirit is only a metaphor.
He doesn't believe in baptism, the physical presence of the holy spirit of the Eucharist and thinks that all 'official' rituals are a distraction.
But he devotes far more energy, time, and money to taking care of the poor than any person I have ever seen. He's actually stopped in the middle of a car drive, walked up to a homless guy on the street and offered to buy him a cup coffee and give him a room for the night.
So what is a "real question" is it about beliefs or actions?
>>718632
both
your father would be better if he believed 2bh
>>713392
I just can't make myself believe. Maybe it'd be better if I could.
>>713392
It's extremely common. Keep a diary. Read the passages from your wholesome, holy days and your alienated dry spells side by side. Read the Psalms and read atheistic poets (try Larkin's "Aubade"). Meditate on it all.
>>713392
Part of me wants to buy into Catholicism completely. I have always identified as a Catholic because I was raised Catholic and educated in Catholic schools, including university. But then I have moments where I feel like a lot of Catholic and broader Christian beliefs are ridiculous.
My biggest obstacle to becoming one of those "spiritual but not religious" types is that it feels cheap. Belief that doesn't require one to make sacrifices in everyday life doesn't feel genuine. I like the guilt it brings and the moral courage that it demands and the pageantry and solemnity. It's absurd, I know, but I can't help it.
>>713392
Be Christian or don't. A true Christian wouldn't be switching in and out of non-belief.
Commit or leave man you cannot have it both ways. [spoiler]Just know whatever path you take is yours and you will take all responsibilities of your decision[/spoiler]
>>718690
>A true Christian does not doubt.
Did you hear that down at the megachurch?
>>718690
Lel, even the disciples doubted anon.
How do Protestants delude themselves in thinking that justification by faith alone is the default, obvious view, when it so clearly isn't? It fascinates me. Christ spends most of his preaching talking about behavior, and the interpretation of Paul is certainly not something everyone agrees on. The absurd revision of Christianity into a religion that completely disregards good works was a historical occurence, started by men who can barely be called Christian in any traditional sense.
>>719240
"Your faith has saved you. Go in peace." -Jesus
I believe it is only by the Grace of God we receive faith, and only by faith we can be justified & saved.
>>719429
Matthew 7:21
21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles? 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
>>719647
Matt 7 is speaking of those who have a false assurance of eternal life.
They have placed their faith in what they have done, not in Christ.
They reject the fact that all their works are as filthy rags.
They reject the fact that their only hope is to be covered by the blood of Jesus when they stand before the Father.
They reject that salvation is totally in Christ. The only thing they are required to do is BELIEVE.
>>719776
>but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
>he who DOES
>>719784
Matt 7 are people who tried to get to heaven by all their great works, they did in the name of the lord. they never actually called out to him to be saved.
Matthew 7:15 KJV
[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
>>719801
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. 14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
>16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
