Why do public schools exist?
What is the source of this idea that everyone needs to learn what they teach you in school?
So that the kids learn which ideas are fashionable and which are not by noticing the facial expression and tone of voice of their Teachers and school books. Their opinions on specific issues are formed as they view and read the "correct view of history" as taught by their teachers and elders so that they might become fit voters for the already designated candidates and politicians.
It's a much surer way of controlling governments when you brainwash the population from the very start and take their kids to your "correctional institutions"
>>68856
William Pierce?
More educated the general populace is = The less they get taken advantage of by the elites
>>68754
Because we live in a civilization that considers everyone is equal and everyone has a vote. So everyone must be educated. You wouldn't want some uneducated nigger to have the same power to elect representatives, right?
And, well, the result is you actually still have a lot of uneducated people whose opinion matters the same than you. But it's still a better system than the others.
>>68856
>>69830
>>69902
Viewpoints are funny.
>>69902
>You wouldn't want some uneducated nigger to have the same power to elect representatives, right?
That's what another nation said and it didn't end up well
>>69902
But it really fucks over the people that don't do good in school. It would be allot better if people that struggle in school was able to start working when they are 14 instead of having to go in school until they are 18-20
>>69969
You have to be enough old for making such a radical decision as stopping your studies and going to work.
>>68754
Back in the old days getting an education costed a ton of money. This meant it was easier for rich to richer and poors to get poorer. With public education the idea is that anyone can strive to get the same education as a rich person. Its up to debate if this actually works in practice.
>>69830
It's exactly the opposite, mandatory education began in Prussia after France beat the shit out of them so the Prussian leadership decided their soldier were not disciplined enough so children had to be trained into servility and obedience from a very young age, the format of attending a place where you didn't choose to be and have to obey some authority figure and stay quiet and subservient serves exactly that purpose, education is a secondary goal, but then again memorizing a bunch of useless shit is not really education.
>>69969
Yeah, but is 14 year old able to decide on his future like that?
>>69946
I'm >>69830
I agree with >>69902
and believe >>68856 is a crackpot theory
>implying students give a fuck what their teacher thinks
if the schools teach the kids reading, writing, and arithmetic they done their job.
Everything else is things that society believes that the populace ought to learn but haven't figured out exactly how to teach it (at least in America's case)
It increase the human capital of a nation state and makes it more competitive on global markets. If it wasn't increasing the GDP it wouldn't be spent on.
In theory it's that everybody is equal and should be informed to make correct voting decisions.
In reality is brainwashing
>>70082
>implying some students aren't influenced by teachers
Come on son.
>>70112
This.
>>68754
Fuck off. I did my last two HS years in a publi school and loved it.
>>70056
education is not training, making people obey autority is training, not so different to training a dog, menawhile education is about learning.
>memorizing a bunch of useless shit is not really education.
But anyway, you seem to have such a stupid cognition of what education is, so that's probabily the problem with you to begin with.
>>70127
>So you think it's better for a person to be done with school when he is 20 and end up with shit grades instead of being able to get work experience at a young ages. They will end up at the same jobs anyways.
I don't get this, it's like you think every job is the same.
>>70127
No. Where do you live that people leave high school by 20 years old? 17, 19 years at most. Plus they need to understand what jobs are there and their choices.
>>70173
>muh socialdarwinist theories
>>70123
>Now listen to what I say, you should always challenge authority or you are a nazi
American teacher in a nutshell
>>70170
Are you saying in school you were not put together in a room with a bunch of strangers where you had to obey some authority figure several hours a day?
>>70233
Yeah, you are writing a made up quote that supports your theory, this surely makes us believe in your really covincent ideas.
>>70209
What socialdarwinist theory? You were granted an opportunity, you didn't take advantage from it, so you suffer the consequences. Basic school is not even about being intelligent or good at the different subjects, literally every human can deal with it and kids who get bad grades is because they don't put enough effort on studying.
There's no reason to make an exception for them, if they're no special on any way.
>>70207
I live on the countryside in Sweden. Went in high school with 2 guys both had to redo 1 year of mandatory school when they where 12 and had to spend the first year of high school in a special class that let them get good enough grades to get a 3 year long education on how to weld.
They would end up with the same jobs if they where allowed to start working at 15 years old.
>>68754
One of the best ways right now to make sure your country isn't a third-world shithole is to give your population some basic education.
>>68754
I was thinking that this thread should actually belong to /pol/, but no, /pol/ have to be a stormfront shitposting board.
Just wanting to rember that politic means "activities that relate to influencing the actions and policies of a government", and this thread is purely political in the purest meaning of the term.
It's just sad.
>>70358
And you start doing that for your two friends, and then extend it to everyone who just won't sit and study. And in a generation or two, you have a population of 3rd world tier rednecks who can barely write their own names and Sweden becomes the new Belarus.
>>70082
They obviously care either in a shallow or a profound sense. Shallow when prompted by parents under their threats or profound when goodie twoshoes has been keked into thinking basic education is worth anything but the ink printed on the curriculum.
Whichever applies to the subject, it is also indefinitely true that the master-slave relationship is psychologically enforced and effectively programmed leading to few ever escaping the bind to authority and the authority perceived in conformism which is also why we see the current state of society as such today; the content few being figuratively brain-dead with the remainder unhappy and impotent.
>>70610
Do you really think they learned anything during the last 5 years of school?
Why waste money on educating people that rather work.
Also when did a say "extend it to everyone who just won't sit and study"?
All i'm saying is that people that don't want to be in school you let them work/intern instead. Because if you cant handle school good luck becoming a doctor or any other job that take high education.
>>68754
The idea is that you teach a student how to function in society and about that society so you can more effectively participate in government and follow the rules. If you teach someone what he's supposed to do you're more likely to see a return on your investments in him.
>>68754
So the government can control society
Echoing the rest of the thread, political and social, and cultural control.
One thing not yes addressed in the thread is the business around school. Teachers, janitors, administrators, computers, school supplies, contracts for building new schools. Plenty of things revolve around the economy of education.
Additionally, it accustoms students to the times that most full time jobs have, and it serves as daycare that. It forces youth to dedicate time to things that discourage critical thinking and creation of art.
>>68754
>Why do public schools exist?
To repress the working class. The radical schools established under Chartism were viewed as lying outside of bourgeois control. Thus state schools.
>>68754
If we give a look behind after the fall of the roman empire, all we see is the dark ages, until the formation of the holy roman empire, schools were not a thing at all, probably just nobles paying a teacher to teach their offsprings.
Charlemagne put an end to those dark ages with reforming the cathredal schools, letting humble childrens that were intelligent to gain knowledges, and using them to increase the unity of his empirey, and of course as a boost to the economy of their time (architects, inventors and these peoples alike).
Ps: Sry for bad engrish.
>>71403
>It forces youth to dedicate time to things that discourage critical thinking and creation of art.
Oh look another crackpot conservative.
Most assignments in school are designed to teach critical thinking. For example history classes make kids analyze events and interpret how and why things happened, and recognize patterns. English classes teach kids to interpret literature, which is some of the hardest critical thinking you can do. Most importantly, they teach math. Math is applied logic. If you learn to think logically then you have a basis for all learning.
>>72736
>creation of art.
Also you were required to take a certain amount of fine art credits at my high school, I don't know about other ones.
It is far from perfect but at least almost everyone can read and knows arithmetic
There will always be a huge room for improvement in this field
>>72736
>>73226
I really don't believe that school can teach critical thinking effectively. They try to, but it doesn't work, to me it's something you have to grasp yourself.
As for expression through art, most fine arts programs are lacking. I'll be honest, where I was they were great, but in most they're not up to standards, though that can be said about anything related to education. When I talk about hindering the creation of art, I just mean expression, and creation of media, even if I don't like said media or art. I feel like more people than ever are willing to sit back and consume tons of media, and barely produce any. It seems to me that schools don't want to change this.
I'm glad I went through high school. Overall it's an experience that changes you and does prepare you, even if it's not in the way that officials and teachers who put you through it say. High school is a great place to prepare yourself socially for the world. Also, I'm no conservative.
>>73952
>They try to, but it doesn't work, to me it's something you have to grasp yourself.
So what, we should let kids teach themselves mathematics? Remember what I said about logic.
I know what you mean, but though you can't make a horse drink, you can lead it to water. Instructors can in fact help students to learn critical thinking, as long as they're willing to learn.
>most fine arts programs are lacking
I disagree. I don't think schools should concentrate on art. They should concentrate on core learning like critical thinking, how to read and communicate effectively, and objective studies (as in STEM.) Those will be the things that help the most people actually join and excel in the workforce. That's the main purpose of school.
>>74328
...Of course, some exposure to fine art opens the mind, gets people to think in different ways, and is helpful to people who want careers that involve creativity, like journalism, graphic design, industrial design, or just people who want to become a painter or musician. But core learning skills and objective knowledge are more useful to more people.
>>68754
Fucking indoctrination.
>>74353
>>74328
That's fair enough, I can respect where you're coming from. For me though, school just got in the way of what I wanted to do, what I needed to study and practice, For others it's fine. I also hated the environment and people for the most part. Maybe if I had enjoyed myself more I would have felt less like it was light brainwashing and daycare.
>>69969
Kek, in Switzerland we can stop studying in middle school (at 14-15) to start "learning" a job. You start to work from day one, with some light studying specific to your job. Don't you guys have something like that too? Most people don't go to highschool.
>>68754
The real reason? Protestantism. If reading the bible is essential for your salvation you better be able to fucking read.
>>68754
The clusterfuck that was the industrial revolution
>>68754
American Protestant utopian sentiment at its most blindly destructive.
Read this if you want to learn more.
Labour has become heavily specialized and generally needs at least some knowledge and skill. Even many minimum wage mcjobs will need you to be able to read for example. Basically the elites need at least minimally educated plebs these daysh
>>74592
I don't think murica has Ausbildung
>>68754
Because developed nations have mostly progressed beyond the point that 'healthy with functioning limbs' is no longer the most useful asset someone can bring to a workforce
>>69969
Yea because some adolescent dipshit who can't even do basic mathematics is probably a great asset in the work place.
>>74592
Nope. Everyone does the same thing, has to take the same subjects
In high school in Virginia it's
4 years of Math
4 years of Science
4 years of English
4 years of History
2 years of Physical Education
1 year of financial classes
1 year in a fine arts class
1 year in a tech class
And a few more classes you can choose.
>>75131
Interesting. At my school in New Jersey you need 4 years of English, 3 of math, 1 of bio, 1 of chem, and 1 of another science elective, 3 of history, and gym all four years.
Politicians who say they want to improve education crack me up, though. The absolute simplest, most brain-dead obvious answer is eliminate gym class and put money from sports programs into academics instead. The fact that they won't do that is proof that they don't actually care.
>>75131
That seems pretty dumb if you ask me. Maybe that's why highschool classes seem to be more advanced in Switzerland. I chose maths/physics as my main subject and we had rather extensive courses in Calculus, Diff Eqs, Series, Probabilities, Statistics and some more subjects. A strong calc, analytical geometry and probabilites background are a given for all highschoolers which doesn't seem to be the case in America.
>>75349
We reserve more specialized knowledge for college.
>>75579
Then what do you exactly do in courses like maths, physics, chemistry and so on? I'm not judging, just curious.
>>75221
They'll never take away from extracurricular, after school sports. That's the reason school starts so early anyway, more time for practice after school.
While we're on the subject, what time does school start and end in Switzerland? High school in America starts at 7:20 am and ends at 3:10 PM. We take 4 1.5 hour classes.
Also, I forgot, we also must take 3 years of a language.
>>75676
geometry and algebra, units/metrics and measurement, stoichiometry and elements.
>>75736
This really differs from highschool to highschool. Each year is different but it ranges from 7:30 to ~17h:15 in general. You can have almost anything as long as it's in this range. My best friend had 2 hours on monday on his last year.
But it's really complex. For instances, where I come from we have 3 years of highschool, but in different parts of Switzerland they have like 4 or even 5 years.
>>75676
In Virginia it's Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry, Math Analysis, and Pre-Calculus. My school system also offered advanced placement programs for students who wished to take college classes early, so we had Calculus and Physics
Chemistry is taught, but not well. We did have an AP chemistry class though.
>>75948
Chemical Element knowledge like general knowledge of the periodic table, groups, atomic weights, subatomic particles, valence electrons, chemical reactions, etc.
>>76016
Okay, I see. No organic chemistry or physical chemistry?
>>70529
OP asked why public schools existed, in which you can grab some historical context as to why governments started funding education. It's not OP's fault that
he's getting /pol/ tier responses.
>>76094
Molecular units and avagadros number are especially important that I generalized as "chemical reactions", the rest of what I described is physical chemistry, while organic might be introduced in AP classes, it isn't necessarily in the basic classes.
>>75948
They don't teach real analysis in American high schools, the closest course offered is "AP Calculus", which is a typical introductory class with no proofs. Nor, in general, are there any specializations at the high school level. You have some degree of freedom to choose what to take, but that's about it.
>>76187
By physical chemistry I meant thermochemistry, Gibbs, enthalpy and so on.
>>76250
This.
Math Analysis isn't even close to what Real Analysis, it's a class for people who struggle with Algebra 2. I didn't take it.
>>76250
So you can choose certain courses ? Do you have any examples in mind ? The only choice we have (outside of the third language we learn) is our specialization and our second specialization which is minor compared to the first one. Other courses aren't compulsory and you're free to go to the lessons (russian and computer science comes to mind).
>>76252
Basic concepts like work, force, motion, heat, entropy etc are covered as part of physics, but full thermodynamics and em theory are either AP or saved for college.
>>76322
Outside of your Math, Science, English, and History, 2 years of PE, financials for a year, and fine arts and workshop classes for a year each, you can pick whatever you can qualify for.
Virginia Beach in particular is great, they offer plenty of academies and other languages that normally aren't offered through said academies or through digital link lessons.
Great STEM classes here to, we have an entire building dedicated to it, you can spend half your school day by taking a bus if you've got the rest of your compulsory classes in line.
>>75736
>That's the reason school starts so early anyway, more time for practice after school.
I know. It's retarded. They've seen that making school open just 30 minutes later drastically increased grades and test scores. But nope, somehow stupid jock shit is more important.
>>76705
This seems great, I wish our highschools would promote this more.
>>76773
For the sake of culture, supposedly.
>>76801
It is. http://www.vbatc.com/
The website is horribly outdated, but the program is great. It offers about a dozen different classes covering advanced graphic design, software development, cybersecurity, and so on. It's also on the same campus as the community college in our area. It's absolutely wonderful. We also have academies that teach Audio Engineering classes, academies that specialize in lingual studies, and academies for the musically gifted.
Through the ATC you can get a full time job straight out of high school from the telecommunications classes, and other classes go straight into the community college next door.
>>76967
Sorry, by our highschools I meant the Swiss highschools. We don't really have anything of the sort.
>>77121
Ah, I see. Trade offs.
>>74592
There are a few programs like that. The ones I am familiar with have you studying alongside working. Kids can drop out at 16 and pursue their own thing too, though that might work differently in some states.
