So, i have a hypothetical question for you.
Who would be the better sucsessor for lenin, trotsky or stalin?
How would trotsky have handled industrialization? The Nazis? The invaison of Poland? Not to meantion Trotsky's global views of communism. Would he have blead the USSR dry with foreign pursuits unlike stalin? Would Trotsky negotiate with the Nazis into neutrality or join them against the capatalist pigs?
I mean, it's hard to deny that Stalin was a monster, but it's also hard to deny that he industrialized Russia into a superpower in very little time. Stalin's vision for communism was to secure it within Russia before spreading it to other countries. Stalin was a master at propaganda and made his people fear and love him, while trotsky wasn't very well liked by the people or the party, which could have affected his hold on power.
What do you think /his/, who would be the better leader? How would it change the events of world war II?
Trotsky.
Stalin was a reactionary son of a bitch.
>>675270
Neither.
There were a bunch of young bright talented members who weren't complete assholes like those two.
MAKHNO
A
K
H
N
O
>>675277
But that industry tho
Do you think trotsky could accomplish the same?
>>675270
Stalin.
Evidence is provided in the history books. He reigned a prosperous state until he died, if you look past the forced labour camps, war casualties, rapes, concentration camps, human right violation, citizen poverty and rampant militarism
>>675270
Stalin was far beyond more qualified than Trotsky to lead the world's most endangered country, and in fact did a pretty decent job of it.
>BUT 999 GORILLION DEAD WORSE THAN HITLER #FEELTHEBERN
Can we just move beyond the Cold War already?
How do Trotsky defenders justify Kronstadt?
>>675314
>forced labour camps
There is literally nothing wrong with labor camps, and the Gulags were greatly exaggerated.
>war casualties
>rapes
So Stalin is responsible for Hitler invading the USSR and for cases of rape? Incredible.
>human rights violation
Funny joke
>citizen poverty and rampant militarism
It's almost like being isolated and subjected to constant wars for survival from multiple world powers, including but not limited to your genocidal armies like the Nazis doesn't lead to highly flourishing socioeconomic environments.
>>675353
I've seen German military casualties counted among the "people murdered by Stalin".
>>675331
What are you going to do about that?
Let a bunch of armed farmers run about revolting and not pay their taxes?
>>675364
yes anon, that's generally what a revolution is
>>675361
Pretty impressive, being able to kill so many Krauts single-handedly.
>Uncle Joe was the Ubermensch all along
>Literally "Man of Steel"
At last I truly see
>>675394
Do you think he was comfy after the war and all that? I always imagine his house as a sort of comfy but creepy place, like the castle of a vampire...
>>675427
Stalin was a fan of American movies
>>675427
Stalin was taken to living an ascetic lifestyle after his years of seminary education at Tiflis, so not really comfy unless that's your thing I guess.
>>675364
>armed farmers
You're confusing Tambov with Kronstadt mate. This is a common behaviour for a new left Trot.
if only Lenin had lived longer...
a return to democratic centralism without one dictatorial leader would have been nice
>>675299
Nestor Makhno is my anarchifu
>>675270
wait Trotsky, the leader of the Red Army and Lenin's right hand man was unpopular? Can you explain this to me?
One thing Trotsky might not have done that Stalin did was bet on the dumb. Stalin had no problem replacing workers who actually knew what the fuck they were doing with loyal (read educated post-revolution) workers that were dipshits.
Also, Trotsky was terribly upset with the lack of goods in the USSR while he was hiding out in Mexico. It is possible, the famine in Ukraine would not have been as severe if Trotsky was running the show.
"It is easier to provide luxuries for the few than it is to provide the neccesities to the many" -- Trotsky on Stalin's USSR.
Stalin. At least he wouldn't push retarded doctrine that was permanent revolution.
>>675989
>wait Trotsky, the leader of the Red Army and Lenin's right hand man was unpopular?
Very
Can you explain this to me?
Trotsky's organisation folded into Lenin's very late in 1917, so there's outsider syndrome. Trotsky was an independent intellectual, a dilettante, and was accused of Bonapartism.
He didn't make friends, massage egos, or run numbers very well.
>>675989
The problem with Trotsky is his arrogance, which made him dumber than what he thought he was.
>>676166
>Bonapartism
was this similar to accusing somebody of being like Hitler (eg. when Putin anschlussed Crimea) at the time before Hitler was a thing?
>>675270
Mao Zedong
>>675270
Hoxha
imagine USSR made into bunker super-power with all signs of revisionism purged
>>675427
The Court of the Red Tsar by Simon Montefiore is comfy reading, Joseph was a 10/10 Father.
Trotsky would have been better for the world.
He would have helped the Spanish republic and the Chinese communists decisively, and tried to ally with socialists worldwide.
That would have made things much harder for Hitler on the western side. Mao wouldn't have been the natural leader of communist China. The left wouldn't get bogged down in a stale ideological conflict, and democracies would work better because of it.
But if germany goes Nazi anyway, ww2 might just be the axis against Russia and China, with the west counting the points.
>>676428
>was this similar to accusing somebody of being like Hitler (eg. when Putin anschlussed Crimea) at the time before Hitler was a thing?
No, it is accusing someone of using martial force over political force.
Its counterposition would be Rouxism, an adherence to the political over the military situation.
>>676521
>The Court of the Red Tsar by Simon Montefiore is comfy reading
Just like all lies.
>>676668
This sadly is not what the evidence of the 4th international is, where Canonism is the evidence in chief.
>>676668
World War 2 would have been a slaughter for the USSR. Stalin industrialized the country off the backs of a few hundred thousand to a few million dead. Trotsky would have never taken the time to industrialize his nation in such a manner.
>>676695
I think trotsky was the superior diplomat between the two. I believe he could have intimidated or negotiated with hitler to the point of not invading
>>676695
I don't think so.
Once you're done with revolutionnary wars, and with party infighting, and you've got a huge country made mostly of peasants, and the beginnings of an industry... A huge lot of mineral ressources sitting around, a huge lot of potential workers tilling around... Your political school of thought puts a lot of emphasis on the role of industrial workers... You are threatened by smaller countries whose main advantage over you is their industrial development... You remember the war of 1905 won by a Japan who industrialized over 30 years...
And now you have absolute power. What do you do?
Trotsky might have done it a bit less forcefully, but he was also a better organizer and there would have been less time and ressources wasted.
And the red army would not have been purged so hard.
>>676850
trotsky wouldnt have been less forcefull, he was a murderous bastard just like stalin, but he would have been better organised, not only would the red army get purged less, but also the technician and industrial engeneer cadres assembled by the party would have more say and control, different technicues and organisational systems would have been tried, different tactics allowed, mistakes in agriculture would have been adressed instead of repressed, but most importantly the whole 'permanent revolution' thing would mean proxy wars all over europe, for example, spanish civil war would have been a big deal for trotsky, but then gramsci would have maybe started another in italy, shit could have gone up in weimar, hungary etc etc... whereas stalin had the doctrine of 'socialism in one state' and actively sabotaged shit in spain, made no effort to help other revolutionaries of europe etc...
Trotsky.
Stalin jumped in to world war 2
>wanting a Jew running your country
Jews are flat out incompetent.
