![Confucius_Tang_Dynasty[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uyCtUsU.jpg "Confucius_Tang_Dynasty[1].jpg")
The only reason the Western culture has dominated for the last 200 years is that it's power has ascended greatly since the Industrial Revolution. Things are going to change in this century. Before the Industrial Revolution, Europe was basically a coping and adaptive culture. As you can see, the Greek civilization was not an ORIGINAL civilization like the Chinese civilization. The Greek civilization was heavily influenced by both Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations ( Greek myths and religion had their roots in various Mesopotamian beliefs).. The Greek architecture and medicine were adopted from Egypt and ancient Greeks extensively borrowed from Babylonians ( the ancestors of the present day Arabs) for it's astronomy and mathematics and even it's alphabet was based on the non- European semitic Phoenician alphabet. How about Christianity which was originated among non-European semitic people? As you can see, the Greeks were the biggest copycats in the ancient world. In this ancient time period, there were Confucius, Laozi, Mozi, Zhangzi, Mencius, Sun tsu, etc in China whose thoughts were at least as great as any Greek thinkers. Before you wrote this outdated Eurocentric trash, you should have read SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA by Joseph Needham which was picked as one of the 100 best English language non-fictions of the 20th century by Random House. I'm going to list some of many Chinese inventions and ideas that backwards Europe copied from China before the Industrial Revolution. China invented compass, rudder, leeboard, centerboard, multi-mast, watertight compartments which Europe didn't use for their ships until the late 18th century. Without all these Chinese inventions, the European voyages of discovery wouldn't have been possible. Also China invented not only paper but also printing including the movable type about 400 years before Gutenberg who had been vey likely influenced by the movable type developments in China and Korea, developed one.
Without these Chinese inventions, the SPREAD of Renaissance would have been extremely difficult. China invented not only gunpowder but also gun, cannon, rocket including multi-stage ones, both land and sea mines, bomb, even hand grenade. All these Chinese military technologies were furiously copied by Europeans. Can you imagine the modern military without these Chinese inventions? Even the European Enlightenment was heavily influenced by many of Chinese thoughts. As a matter of fact, many Enlightenment thinkers such as Montaigne, Leibniz, Voltaire, Quesnay, etc. were enamored with the ancient Chinese idea of mandate of heaven that essentially declared that an UNFIT king should be overthrown. These European scholars thought the mandate of heaven idea was much more enlightening than the rigid and primitive European idea of the divine right of king to rule forever no matter what. This Chinese idea of mandate od heaven greatly influenced the French Revolution. Also these European thinkers had a high opinion of the Chinese bureaucratic system based on meritocracy through civil service examinations, while denouncing the privileges of the European hereditary aristocracy. Even the concept of laissez-faire was borne in the ancient China. Both Taoists and Confucian scholars believed in little or no state intervention in economic activities. From about 2nd century BC on, Chinese dynasties practiced free market economy while only intervening from time to time in iron and salt enterprises and also by and large they kept taxes low. The Chinese idea of laissez-faire greatly influenced the French economist Quesnay who in turn influenced Adam Smith. Also in the 18th century all things Chinese were a rage in Europe. Europeans copied Chinese architecture, interior decoration, tea-drinking, etc. As you can see it was the Europeans copying Chinese, not the other way around.
It's no accident China and India were the two biggest economies in the world from the 1st century to the end of the 18th century. Also China invented blast furnace, coking - coal, so called- Bessemer Steel Process, Siemens' Steel process, drilling techniques for oil and natural gas ( China drilled for natural gas and transferred it through pipelines for heating and lighting starting in the 4th century BC, on the other hand Europe didn't use natural gas until the late 19th century). Without all these Chinese inventions, the Industrial Revolution would have been impossible. These are just some of the ground- breaking Chinese inventions and ideas that backward Europe eagerly copied before the Industrial Revolution. Even science was born in the 11th century in the Islamic civilization with the birth of the EXPERIMENTAL SCIENTIFIC METHOD ( all ancient civilizations were pre-scientific) The backwards Europe again copied the experimental scientific method extensively thus bringing about the Scientific Revolution in Europe. The primitive Europeans copied not only science but also math, architecture, literature, etc from the Islamic civilization in the Middle Ages. As you can see Europe was basically a copying and adaptive culture before the Industrial Revolution. Even though Europe overtook China in science in the 17th century. China was still ahead of Europe in technology until the end of the 18th century because there was disconnect between nascent scientific theories and implementing them for technological developments. Before the Industrial Revolution, almost all the technological improvements were done by craftsmen or technicians not by scientists. Even Ancient China was far ahead of the Greco-Roman civilization in technology. According to Robert Temple, a well-respected scholar of the Oriental Studies, more than half of the inventions that laid foundations for the modern world before the Industrial Revolution came from China.
If China had not declined in the 19th century and had more powerful second industrial revolution ( China's first industrial revolution occurred in the 11th century under Sung dynasty), we might be speaking Mandarin now, instead of English also study Confucius, Laozi, Mozi, Mencius, instead of such overrated ancient Greeks as Socrates, Aristotle, Plato. What we are seeing now is the 200-- year Western domination is coming to an end and the world is going back to the original Asian predominance. The last 200 years of the Western domination was an aberration from the long-running Asian super- achievements.
>Before the Industrial Revolution, Europe was basically a coping and adaptive culture
>Butthurt chinese nationalist
tl;dr: ching chong bing bong fang tung
>>839847
>because nobody ever lied with statistics before
>>839831
While nobody reasonable doubts the achievements of China and India, where do you think things are headed, as of now?
>>839847
these statistics actually prove my point
the Western Europe wasn't that much ahead per capita until the Industrial Revolution
remember China had much more people
The Chinese are like cockroaches.
>>839880
>remember china had much more people
And still gell behind.
Literally hundreds of millions live in poverty, your infrastructure is made of cardboard, your political system is unsustainable, your environment is polluted beyond repair, you have 1 (one) aircraft carrier that you bought from Ukraine, your currency has been pegged to the USD for like two decades... etc. etc. etc.
China a shit. No need to even start on India.
>>839880
Continuous growth vs. near continuous decline for 700 years preceding the Industrial revolution.
>>839886
The chart is about GDP per capita, meaning it's comparing all of China, including both the highly industrious regions and the sparse farmland and steppe, with the more industrious regions of England and Holland.
>>839899
And what was the percentage of the popluation that lived in the more industrious regions of China vs the poor farmland and steppe ones?
>>839902
most of the Chinese population live on/near the coast
OP read Nietzsche, all of him.
Maybe you'll understand why "copycat" is part of Greek, Roman, European, and American supremacy. And now it seems the economic (which was always low-skilled economies) situation is not as optimistic as it was even 6 years ago, a little like Japan before.
>>839909
In which case the difference between the GNP per capita shouldn't be that big since the rich Coast-Chinese was in such a majority, right?
>>839860
>>839863
>>839882
>>839886
>>839892
Hi friends, you seem to have wandered off from >>>/pol/, don't worry, /his/ will still be here for you if you actually improve, but until then, stay among people of your level, thanks!
>>839899
>>839902
Again, it's a deceptive meme infograph lying with statistics. Anybody intelligent is one google away from harder data.
>>839913
there was a difference but since China has a larger population you need to have 5x richer per capita to match it's output
>>839913
Living near the coast =/= living in an industrial heartland. Most of Europe also lived in its big coastal plains, but not all of them were Holland tier. What was the GDP per capita of Naples, of Copenhagen, or Brittany?
>>839921
>since China has a larger population you need to have 5x richer per capita to match it's output
>since China has a larger population you need to have 5x richer per capita to match it's output
>since China has a larger population you need to have 5x richer per capita to match it's output
>per capita
>per
>capita
And now I leave the discussion.
>>839880
much ahead? England and Holland were out producing China during the renaissance, Rome also outproduced han in its heyday.
Then again history isn't some kind of national pissing contest
best new b8 pasta 2016
>>839935
If Wikipedia is to be believed , at least Denmark was ahead of China after at least the 16th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita#1.E2.80.932003_.28Maddison.29
>>839930
This is our board now. If you want to go be a little bigot, you can do it on /pol/ or stormfrobt
>Japan got BTFO by America
>Korea got BTFO by the UN
>China about to get BTFO by NATO
Manlets, when will they learn? Your "superior" Asian culture is shit.
>>839930
Okay, but while Chinese nationalists need to be put down, why not do it through logic, and if OP is anti-rational, just let the thread sink?
>>839982
Don't you have some smog poison to die off or something?
>>839990
Preferably, but it's not like we are doing that with any of the other nation's butt-hurt nationalists.
>>839994
But I've participated in at least 5 Sinic threads in the last 2 weeks, and the discussion was pleasant and rational. Most of the Persian threads I saw were rational as well (for the most part).
If that was OP, then yes, his grasp on statistics is flimsy, but there's still room for discussion.
>>839982
Its bigotry to disagree with ops absurd, factually inaccurate comparison of China and Europe?
>>839847
Another research I read said that Chinese and Indian weavers at the Yangtze and Ganges river delta region essentially earned more (percapita) than the weavers in London around 1790s before steamer was popularized. The rest of the countries were pretty agricultural tho
>>840012
Though the guy isn't inviting for any discussion, he just wrote three full posts about how superior Asia is to Europe and how they will soon retake their rightful place, not even stating what he wanted to be discussed.
Why would anyone like that be taken as anything else than some nationalist desperate to prove the "true" history of his people?
>>840031
Source?
>>839892
>says someone don't have any infrastructures built after 1950s who chose to deindustrialize itself
>>/pol/ desu
>>840042
I'm German
>>839985
>Korea got BTFO by the UN
Brainwashed imperialist detected
Right, but while my post >>839878 in response to the stub >>839831 went unanswered, I wasn't necessarily expecting OP to answer, but some other anons well informed. By rough estimate, there are probably at least 5 anons like that on any day, and while I personally am not smart enough to contribute succinctly, I was hoping they'd pitch in.
>if this didn't happen, that would happen
this is a history board m8, not a fantasy roleplaying one
>>840039
Probably a chapter of Global economic history: a very short introduction.
>>840068
Yeah, now how just need to tell me what chapter so I may look it up myself.
Would be nice if I gets a quote as well.
Confucius is shit.
>>840074
Don't have the book with me but I remember the book started by 1760 or so and the main theory was the British high wages pushed investors to invest in new technologies which sparkled the industrial revolution. So I assume around the first two chapters.
>Robert Temple
hahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHH
>>840081
Doesn't that contradict your (I assume you are the same person) original statement that the Asian and Indian ones earned more money per capita than the Brittish weavers though?
too dense didn't read
> The only reason the Western culture has dominated for the last 200 years is that it's power has ascended greatly since the Industrial Revolution.
>The only reason Western culture has dominated for the last 200 years is that it's power has ascended greatly for the last 200 years
>>840083
Not any of the China-lovers, but why is he laughable?
>>840083
OP, your respected historian pretty much disqualifies everything you said.
>"The book presents the hypothesis that the Dogon people of Mali, in west Africa, preserve a tradition of contact with intelligent extraterrestrial beings from the Sirius star system.
These beings, who are hypothesized to have taught the arts of civilization to humans"
OP, as you can see the Chinese just copied everything from dem Ayyliens.
>>840100
>per capita
Stop that anon
ching waong wing dong ching chong
Instead of bitching on how things MAY or SHOULD have happened OP, you should maybe try to understand why they happened the way they did and why the Chinese were not in any way even close to inventing either Mercantilism or Capitalism.
This is a history board after all.
>>840113
Oh look, another manlet warping data to his tiny manlet ends. What happened, even Stormfront didn't want you?
meanwhile we'll go where the fuck we want.
just try and stop us, chink fucking shits.
>>840145
>>840031
This.
People are comparing small parts of Europe to large parts of China.
If you only picked the most developed regions of China, or if you measured GDP per capita for all of Europe, including northern and eastern Europe, you'd see different results.
>>840031
I have seen research comparing Holland with the Yangtze delta, around 1500 Holland overtook that region as the richest in the world. From that point on urbanization and mechanization were also more common in Holland.
Gimme a sec and i'll find it.
>>840145
Oh so not believing in >le ancient ayyliens is stormfront now?
Read up on it yourself https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirius_Mystery
>>839818
The problem with your hypothesis OP is that China was in any way unique in avoiding what befell all indigenous non-western civilizations.
They were colonized.
And even if anything purely Chinese survived (which it didn't) why would it go on to spread as opposed to western universalism? When nearly all of the world adheres or copies western norms,rules and behaviors why would the Chinese trump their own sense of global belonging. And please don't mention Chinese colonization of Africa, because we all know what the Chinese are doing there is a pure neo-liberal capitalist take over, they have zero cultural contact with the Africans and even if they did nothing of value would be imprated since the Chinese are nearly all westernized and have nothing Confucian about their beliefs or behavior.
What post-colonials, pan-asianists and other fringe groups don't understand is what Baudrillard said about language. He who invents the terms,definitions,categories and concepts used by others, is effectively a master not only over them, but of the whole world.
>>840164
So as of 1000 AD in GDP-PPP
China is at 450, and Western (576) and Eastern (412) Europe average out to 492, assuming they have the same population. It also says 'western offshoots' are at 400, dropping Europe further by an unknown amount.
>>840178
>Eastern Europe
I don't really think it is fair to lump them in with the Western Europeans due to their sort of serfdom.
In China the whole country had the same political system, so comparsions are easier there.
>Western offshoots
They aren't just talking about colonies here?
Thinks that basically just were Europeans placing a few settlers in some shithole and then forcing them to pretty much start from scratch.
>>840169
If you called a red aromatic flower by any other name, it wouldn't be intellectually owned by one culture
>since the Chinese are nearly all westernized
Hahahahahahahaha
>>840210
They are ruled by a pseudo-Communist party and essentially ever since the 80's are relentless neo-liberal cameralist state.
How the fuck are they not Western? Everything else you might say about their 'Confucian values" is just for show, the way the Chinese live and die has nothing Confucian about it.
>>840201
It's not clear what they mean by Western European offshoots in 1000 AD.
But the fair comparison is with the entire subcontinent, it just so happens that China has been united, while Europe has not. There were parts of China that were more like serfdom, and parts that were more like Holland.
Anywhere now in the EU, or anywhere west of the Urals, are to be compared to China.
>>840113
>The annual total iron output is estimated at 82,500 t,[79] assuming a productive capacity of c. 1.5 kg per capita
>>840154
>>840156
Short article:
http://www.voxeu.org/article/why-china-missed-industrial-revolution
Longer article
http://eh.net/eha/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Broadberry.pdf
>>840100
It doesn't because I said the Chinese and Indian earned more by 1790s and got surpassed later with technology advancement.
>>840225
Since they are listing the USA among western outposts I am pretty sure they just mean "colonies"
And what's the reasons to think that China had the regional histories similar to the one of the EU, where almost half the UNIOn used to be under Communist rule?
Not to forget that the EU is far from as centralized as China was.
>>840245
Okay, sorry for being a moron now, but you say that the Chinese and Indians earned more, but that it was the Europeans that needed to cut down on the prize of their own workers.
How does that work?
>>840261
Or in the words of Adam Smith:
China has been long one of the richest, that is, one of the most fertile, best cultivated, most industrious, and most populous countries in world. It seems, however, to have been long stationary. Marco Polo, who visited it more than five hundred years ago, describes its cultivation, industry, and populousness, almost in the same terms in which they are described by travellers in the present times. It had perhaps, even long before his time, acquired that full complement of riches which the nature of its laws and institutions permits it to acquire. The accounts of all travellers, inconsistent in many other respects, agree in the low wages of labour, and in the difficulty which a labourer finds in bringing up a family in China. If by digging the ground a whole day he can get what will purchase a small quantity of rice in the evening, he is contented. The condition of artificers is, if possible, still worse. Instead of waiting indolently in their workhouses, for the calls of their customers, as in Europe, they are continually running about the streets with the tools of their respective trades, offering their service, and as it were begging employment.
cont.
>>840249
In 1000 AD. Where are the colonies?
In 1000 AD, none of them were communist.
How centralized or decentralized modern China and the modern EU are is not relevant.
>>840268
The poverty of the lower ranks of people in China far surpasses that of the most beggarly nations in Europe. In the neighbourhood of Canton many hundred, it is commonly said, many thousand families have no habitation on the land, but live constantly in little fishing boats upon the rivers and canals. The subsistence which they find there is so scanty that they are eager to fish up the nastiest garbage thrown overboard from any European ship. Any carrion, the carcase of a dead dog or cat, for example, though half putrid and stinking, is as welcome to them as the most wholesome food to the people of other countries. Marriage is encouraged in China, not by the profitableness of children, but by the liberty of destroying them. In all great towns several are every night exposed in the street, or drowned like puppies in the water. The performance of this horrid office is even said to be the avowed business by which some people earn their subsistence.
Now compare this with >>839847 modern research.
It shows Marco Polo did indeed visit China after it's peak.
>>840269
>Where are the colonies?
Well, where the hell is the USA? They are listing that too, so it should be somewhere and it should connected to Europeans I guess.
You made a comparison between the modern day EU and old China, I asked for reasons that local provinces in China wasn't as rich as others (Aka those who didn't have populations to small to really affect the GNI.)
As for the reasons why Eastern Europe was behind, I already named Serfdom. Eastern Europe also had a rather different political history than Western Europe, unlike China which (I assume) had a pretty similar political history all over it.
Any other anon that may tell me if I argue like an idiot or not right now?
>>839818
>an ORIGINAL civilization like the Chinese civilization.
Wrong. Chinese were a culmination of the cultures that existed before China became an Empire.
>borrowed from Babylonians ( the ancestors of the present day Arabs)
Wrong, Arabs were Arabs, pagan tribes that lived in the Arabian Peninsula. When Islam conquered Persia, it included what use to be called Babylon, as the Persians conquered Babylon long ago. Today, a vast majority of "arabs" are other ethnic groups that simply speak Arabic. Arab ethnic groups are literally just Yemenis and gulf Arabs.
>Before you wrote this outdated Eurocentric trash
influence goes both ways. Greeks influenced it's neighbors and vice versa. There was no copying anymore than everyone is copying everyone.
I think Europeans have a very distorted sense of History as well, but you are wrong on like, all fronts.
>>840283
I was using the comparison from 1000 AD. The USA did not exist in 1000 AD.
The area of Europe in 1000 AD could be described as anything west of the Urals, or the current extent of the EU, anything smaller is not including the totality of Europe, and so is not a fair comparison with China. When you include all of Europe, not just the wealthiest parts, they are a lot closer.
>>840261
>>840259
I guess the theory was that the Chindians earned more at first by producing cloths with large and fair amount of share in world market (middle east and europe mainly). The popularization of some primitive types of steamer suddenly raised the english production of clothes exponentially and easily took down Chindian market with larger supply and even lower price. I don't fully agree with the following "high wage directly lead to faster technological advance" thing though that wasn't my point at first.
>>840297
>Wrong. Chinese were a culmination of the cultures that existed before China became an Empire.
When did China become an empire?
>>840315
No, but you did use it as an argument for why your point was true.
>>840315
China effectively banned foreign commerce in the 15th century though. Before that the cloth from India and China going to Europe was not that much. Only clothes that could withstand the cost of transport, possible silks and expensive rugs. Europe was actually exporting manufactured goods to the Middle East and Egypt during the medieval era. Rugs with intricate patterns were exported from the Middle East to Europe, you can actually see some of those rugs in medieval paintings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_carpets_in_Renaissance_painting
I would have to check it again but I think Chinaware was not a significant import until the age of discovery by which point China stopped foreign commerce and assfucked itself even further.
>I don't fully agree with the following "high wage directly lead to faster technological advance" thing though that wasn't my point at first.
Why not?
>>839985
Change it to
>China about to get BTFO by China
The more threads started by nationalists around here, the less of a nationalist and the more of a Marxist I become.
ANyone else that got the same problem?
>>840393
China got ruined by both desu. senpai
>>840395
The problem is all the different Nationalists on here.
The more I read about people crying about old injustices about their nation and how "these fuckers sure will get their payback", the less sure I become that nationalism actually is a good idea.
>Ruined by Marxism
How though?
>>840393
>the more of a marxist I become
more like:
>the more autistic I become
>>840393
>nationalist in the first place
>becoming Marxist
shiggy
>>839818
>The only reason the Western culture has dominated for the last 200 years is that it's power has ascended greatly since the Industrial Revolution. Things are going to change in this century. Before the Industrial Revolution, Europe was basically a coping and adaptive culture.
The West has dominated for 500 years.
>As you can see, the Greek civilization was not an ORIGINAL civilization like the Chinese civilization.
Greek civilization predated Western civilization. It went extinct when Romans fell to Germans and in the East, converted into something altogether different and Magian.
Read Spengler (or fucking anything).
>>840393
>be shit
>turn to different shit
lmao
>>840408
Millions dead in the Cultural Revolution. Land blighted beyond repair, the place is a dump. Though those are more the effects of turning your country into a giant factory.
You'd think for a nation that only has 15% arable land, that they'd take care of it better and not build shit all over it. If the international order ever collapses, China is going to starve extremely quickly (especially with the depletion of fish in the pacific and indian ocean) and probably billions will die. Everyone is living on borrowed time, but China is especially.
>>840429
meant to say millions lol
>>840429
>China is tower of babel made into a whole nation
>>840422
>The West has dominated for 500 years.
It's really more like 300.
>>840422
>Greek civilization predated Western civilization.
Irrelevant does not change the fact Greek culture was influenced heavily by Egyptian and Mesopotamian Culture,Science, Innovations etc, alongside the Bronze age local civilizations.
Their alphabet literally comes from Phoenicia ffs.
>>840447
>It's really more like 300.
They quickly spread over the Americas and took their time in Asia. Never truly penetrated it, but they do control more than any other block.>>840450
>Irrelevant does not change the fact Greek culture was influenced heavily by Egyptian and Mesopotamian Culture,Science, Innovations etc, alongside the Bronze age local civilizations.
I just don't care about Greek civilization in general. It's dead. Babylon is dead. Cultures become stagnant. The West will too.
>>840429
its even worse because they know they're screwing shit up, but they don't care and do it anyways.
>>840457
I'd reckon China would be a fine place if it had like one tenth of it's current population.
>>840429
>>840457
I know this is a history board, but half of my family is from China and they've experienced such rapid increases in quality of life it's really staggering. My uncles went from being street vendors to becoming businessmen and engineers driving Range Rovers and living in apartments that rival anything I'll ever own in the US.
The truth is that many Chinese people are grateful to the CCP for improving China so quickly. Hundreds of millions are still living in poverty, but hundreds of millions have also been pulled out. Sure, they recognize there's a long way to go, but just look at it from their perspective. Just 20 years ago, China was an actual shithole with little economic prospects outside of some shitty SEZs. Just 50 years ago, China was a starving shithole completely ruled by insane Communist policies. Just 100 years ago, China was a playground for European and Japanese imperialists.
All in all, China is doing exactly what it needs to do to become a great power, short-term reputation be damned. I think they are a threat to world peace, but they're well within their rights to do so.
>>840473
If it had 1/10th of its current population, India, Russia, Muslims, East Asians, USA, and Europe would all scramble for it.
>>840483
Wouldn't it be great?
>>840483
Yes
And?
>>840482
>All in all, China is doing exactly what it needs to do to become a great power, short-term reputation be damned. I think they are a threat to world peace, but they're well within their rights to do so.
Yes, but 4chan is populated by idiots who can't see past their dick. People thought much of the same about America, when America was starting out, and look at it now.
All large, jingoistic states are a threat to world peace. But considering the number of nuclear states, if things tip the balance too far, we'll all be fine in nirvana.
>>840494
But the Americans didn't know about climate change, and how rapid insutrialization would affect the environment.
>>840501
It's unavoidable, but I don't think China will permanently screw itself, barring some unusual nepotism (total idiots don't last that long in vicious Chinese politics). Healing the land will be eventually a piece of cake with the money they're making.
>>840491
All people suck, so nothing would really change.
>>840482
That's all fine and dandy, the point of my post wasn't about what China is, it's about what happens if (and most likely when) the international order collapses. Personally I just also think it's a shame that the place is so polluted.
However, I disagree with you saying China is doing exactly what it needs to do to become a great power.
If they were doing what they needed to be doing, they would be developing sustainable energy and not destroying their own ecology. The yangtze river wouldn't be running red from petro chemical dump. They wouldn't be antagonizing their neighbors in the South China Sea. If they were doing exactly what they needed to be doing to be a global power they would do things like develop basic human rights. Rights for victims of accidents. Rights to practice any religion. They'd stop putting their own people in secret camps.
Unfortunately China is going about all the wrong ways to become a great power, and in doing so they are screwing over themselves, and pretty much everyone else.
Of course, this is all just my opinion.
>>840510
Healing the land isn't just some easy peasy piece of cake. Alot of the land and water is contaminated with nickel and cadmium. It's not easy to clean up, and in some cases it's not even possible.
>>840457
he said just pollute my shit up senpai
>>840533
This is the cost of rapid industrialization and modernization. From a pragmatic viewpoint, if China had to completely switch to sustainable/alternative energy, their economy would be absolutely crippled. And the CCP has wisely surmised that generating $$$ fast is the most surefire way of maintaining social stability and political legitimacy.
Democracy would also cripple China's economic growth, so free speech is heavily curtailed. Antagonizing small-time Southeast Asian nations is the smart move versus confronting Taiwan or Japan, and helps to reinforce the idea that China stands alone against American hegemony in the Pacific.
>>840576
China's economy is on borrowed time, and the more they pollute their own land to the bone, the less they will have or be able to recover in the future. Their economy is currently unsustainable.
I'm not saying they should completely switch over sustainable alternative energy, but that they should enforce the laws that they enacted to regulate and control pollution. There's no need for a large amount of the pollution and dumping that happens in the Yangtze and other Chinese water sources.
Also, democracy wouldn't cripple China's economic growth. Hong Kong and Taiwan got on just fine, and don't give me the argument that because China's so much bigger it wouldn't work. That's purely not valid, considering it works in India and other large nations. However, China becoming a democracy wasn't even brought up in my post, I was advocating for BASIC human rights.
Also, how does antagonizing it's neighbors (who aren't really that small-time) count as a smart move? It moves ASEAN (one of the largest economic blocs in the world) closer to American hands, it does no good for their trade, and it just plain makes China look bad. America fly's over the Chinese artificial islands all the time, and China practically cries, begging them to stop. China set up an ADIZ (Air Defence Identification Zone) that overlaps with Japan's airspace, and Japan doesn't give a single shit and flies planes through it on an hourly basis. What does China gain from looking like a piper tiger?
>>840576
>Antagonizing small-time Southeast Asian nations is the smart move versus confronting Taiwan or Japan
But they do the latter too.
>>840595
Just in response to my above post, I forgot that Hong Kong wasn't a democracy, and Taiwan didn't achieve democracy until recently, but my point still stands.
Wewuz tier post
>>839831
>such overrated ancient Greeks as Socrates, Aristotle, Plato
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>840595
Same could be said of USA and Europe.
>>841778
No.
>>841786
yes
>>841800
provide some validation of your claims "please"
>>841859
do your own research, i dont care enough.
if not, phooie on you.
>>841896
Burden of proofs is on you
>>841914
well duh, i just dont care enough.
>>841941
So you're wrong and just talking out your ass.
Cool, alright.
>>841948
stay ignorant senpai
>>840533
China spends the same amount of money on green energy as the EU and the US combined.
>>842882
Green energy =/= renewable energy.
Does that statistic take in count nuclear energy?
Why does it matter?
>>842900
"Green energy" is basically a marketing term at this point. Being certified green gives you special economic privilage. Naturally it's rigged and the label is without merit.
China's air pollution is bad enough so that it sometimes creates problems in the soil on the Western coast of America.
>>841914
Not that guy, but the US and the various western European power players do antagonize a select number of counties non stop. On /K it is talked about a lot. However the back ground of /k posters is international to the level that it can he highlight that in most causes is the antagonism is mutual and has been for a rather long time ( for the that of time frame the modern discussions on geopolitics ). There is very few innocent parties that end up in armed conflicts or into military stand offs.
China very much started the issue that it has with Vietnam in the mid 1970s, but Vietnam has done a not small number of things back to china since then. Vietnam has made a larger number of islands in the south china sea then China and started work on in earnest on the matter before the Chinese did.
>>840595
Taiwan displays the exact kind of disunity because of democracy that led it to lag massively behind South Korea which is a much more homogeneous population. Most Taiwanese know that the country was poised to be much richer than SK but fractious politics diverted people's attention from economic issues to political issues like independence. Regardless of all the memes about China's supposed cultural homogeneity, it's really quite diverse.
As far as the SCS goes, it really goes both ways for both China and the US ignoring each other. China builds up the "islands" in violation of international law and US continues to "violate" China's supposed airspace.
>>842900
they spend more on renewable energy than the US, the UK and France combined
>>844097
Hard numbers and sources please.
>>839818
China also discovered the americas before they started their policy of isolation. They didnt just accidentaly invent gunpowder and rockets but also needed them stupid white men to show them how to use their own invention.
Chinese philisophy is interesting but disingenuous and confucianism is a authoritarian doctrine.
The mandate of heaven is just a rebranded rule by god. "God wills it!" - "Inshallah!"
It did not influence the french revolution more than any other coup in history did.
The chinese bureaucratic system is pretty old but not based on merit. Sure if you pass your test for your license or not may be but thats where merit ends and nepotism kicks in.
It has in fact changed so little that its baffling to any sinologist like myself that people refuse to see the party as just that - a renamed bureaucratic apparatus that serves beneath the aristocracy that delegates and owns everything in China.
Chinese taxes were low not because of a grand plan but the sheer size of mainland china. Imagine administrating Europa as a whole in a time where the fastest messengers were pigeons. Keeping taxes low kept the likelyhood of revolt low and reduced manpower and material that would otherwise have to be invested in "keeping peace".
It was also the Euopeans that made an effort to learn the chinese dialects and stimulate trade. I wonder if you ever were in China because they sure as hell are making an effort now to copy "backward" european culture. Maybe someone knocked them off of their high horse...
In a time where industrial output was soley dependant on the amount of labour put to the task it is no wonder that the two most ppopulous countries would lead. I wonder what changed...
>The last 200 years of the Western domination was an aberration from the long-running Asian super- achievements.
Bullshit. Western domination has come to beeing because creativity, efficiency and merit outperform everything and western countries embraced it instead of hiding away.
>>844097
More that three countries that invest next to nothing?
Wow. Maybe the statistics are out of proportion because of the three gorges dam...
>>840137
> why the Chinese were not in any way even close to inventing either Mercantilism or Capitalism.
Wrong on both counts. The Chinese and Indian markets were FAR more sophisticated than anything Europe had until the mid 19th century. In fact most of the modern global market standards for trade and commerce were adopted from the Chinese and Indian markets
>>845422
>[Citation needed]
>>845426
Adam Smith
>>839818
This reads like copypasta.
Those fucking commies can't even build escalators that don't kill their people. I'm not too scared of some noodle niggers.
>>845245
>confucianism is a authoritarian doctrine.
no that's legalism
>The mandate of heaven is just a rebranded rule by god
No it isn't. The Mandate of Heaven is the notion that if the ruler is incapable, the ruler should be replaced.
>The chinese bureaucratic system is pretty old but not based on merit
And we have the spoils system in the States.
>any sinologist like myself
Some kind of a sinologist, you don't even like the thing that you study
>Chinese taxes were low not because of a grand plan but the sheer size of mainland china.
>taxes were not low because of one of the reasons they should be low, but rather for another reason they should be low, even though the two do not logically contradict and I have introduced a false dichotomy.
>Bullshit. Western domination has come to beeing because creativity, efficiency and merit outperform everything and western countries embraced it instead of hiding away.
No, it was because of competition and being much closer to the Americas geographically. For every country that upholds your stereotype, there are quite a few europoors that do not.
>>845904
>confucianism isnt authoritarian
wut
>>845245
>China also discovered the americas before they started their policy of isolation
>sinologist like myself
This has to be some kind of elaborate bait.
>>845245
>Bullshit. Western domination has come to beeing because creativity, efficiency and merit outperform everything and western countries embraced it instead of hiding away.
>This is what retards actually believe
Western society isn't built on creativity or meritocracy, in fact the latter is objectively false as all business and social contracts in the West is done entirely through nepotism, in fact that's how government officials were recruited before the introduction of civil exams which was a concept taken directly from the Chinese by the East India Company. Creativity? That's nothing more than a buzzword thrown around by lazy motherfuckers who think that there's a substitution for hard work, nothing but a defense mechanism to protect fragile egos, ultimately meaningless.
>>845912
>wut
Great comeback, Jeb.
>>839919
hi tumblr, cant handle the truth? well thats okay, that's why we have safespaces!
>>845943
>>845948
You do realize one of the central points is authority, don't you? Do you even know what Confucianism is?
It was inevitable that Europe was going to overtake since well before the industrial revolution.
We had already become the leader in scientific and technological progress since well before the industrial revolution, and that is what made the industrial revolution happen here rather than China.
The rest of the world had their fate sealed when we had Newton and Leibniz and they had nobody.
>>847693
>we
Dude can I borrow your time machine?
>>845851
>[Source needed]
>>839818
>200
500 and change
>>845904
>No it isn't. The Mandate of Heaven is the notion that if the ruler is incapable, the ruler should be replaced.
And with the same logic and ruler who can hold on to power holds the mandate of heaven.
>Some kind of a sinologist, you don't even like the thing that you study
So I cant hold a critical view on something I like? I like China quite a bit but unlike you I dont delude myself about it.
>taxes
So because China is so large and developed a large bureaucratic system early on one can actually check up on their taxes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_premodern_China
As you can see taxation was only ever high in the songs economic boom and the tangs takeover both periods marked by longs lasting peace.
>Europoors
Okay lets stop pretending Europe or the West were a block.
We are talking about colonial powers obviuously and sure they all have neighbours that didnt fare so well just like Chinas neighbours were stunted by an economic bully.
>>845938
>Hurr durr muh Columbus
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3152556/Did-China-discover-AMERICA-Ancient-Chinese-script-carved-rocks-prove-Asians-lived-New-World-3-300-years-ago.html
>>845943
>in fact the latter is objectively false as all business and social contracts in the West is done entirely through nepotism
citation needed
> Creativity? That's nothing more than a buzzword thrown around by lazy motherfuckers who think that there's a substitution for hard work
Oh one can feel the butthurt with this one.
I guess the plow is just another "uncreative" invention that would not have fared against hard work were it not for nepotism eh...
>>847698
So that you can revisit and change history like you so obviously are trying to do?
There is a reason photos of our hairy anuses sell for more than your anual wage.
