The old testament plagiarized the Gilgamesh epic.
What are your thoughts on this?
jesus put the gilgamesh epic and dinosaur bones on earth to test our faith in him :^)
>>596880
All it does is make the idea that there was really a flood more legitimate.
>>596890
wow, so this means there are two accounts of this happening! Thanks for this info anon
>>596880
>tfw no anime about gilgamesh
>>596880
I like that in Atra-hasis the gods goofed by forgetting to make humans mortal.
>>596906
Source of that vid?
>>596903
Genesis was written during the Babylonian excile. It is filled with references to the fertile crescent and Babylonian believes
>>596890
Was it a european or african swallow?
>>596936
Could you reformulate that question, please? My english is not that good.
>>596924
Neil Degrasse Tyson's Cosmos
Episode 11
I'm curious does the Epic of Gilgamesh ever mention that the flood is the first time it ever rained on the earth like it is in the Bible? Before that, instead of rain, mist rose from the ground. I know they're both real life accounts of the same story, but I don't think the man-made one is the same as the one penned by God through man.
South American and flood lore is so fascinating. Incas also have their Noah/Gilgamesh epic. As do the Aztecs regarding the origin of the Temple of the Sun.
Also, a reminder that Edgar Cayce foretold the discovery of the Bimini Road, the peaks of Atlantis, to be 21 or 22 years after his death and it happened that year.
He also explained that in Atlantis the spectacle of choice was something akin to matador-fighting,
An island off the coast of Crete is believed by modern "scholars" to be the origin of the Atlantis story that Plato told of in his stories, even though Plato himself acknowledged he was merely recounting the stories 10,000 years after the fact of Egypt's stories of their origins as refugees of the final destruction of Atlantis.
This is exactly how Edgar Cayce recounted history for the Egyptian, Yucatan, and South American/Mayan civilizations, right down to the mention it was 12,000 years ago (which fits the passing of time since Plato).
This is exactly how the Aztecs recount their history, which is that a civilization of giants who were refugees from a flood that sunk their continent created the Temple of the Sun; before they were all suddenly wiped out by the sun in one night.
This is exactly how the Incas recount their history, which is essentially the Adam and Eve story but with god as the sun.
HOW, if it's not all true??
>>598037
Sidenote: Cayce said a lot of our mythology comes from our subconscious rememberings of the ancient past when humans were still trying to evolve from animals, which ended sometime after the flood (just like the Bible says that man was corrupt).
I have a pet theory that Ys is Europe's take on the flood, and the locked island is analogous to the descriptions of Atlantis by Cayce/Plato of a circular island surrounded by a ring of inlets. The idea of the "devil" in a red suit of armor who tricks the promiscuous princess into giving him the keys to the island and floods it, is a reference to the Minotaur and the maze, which is an allegory of the selfishness that sunk the continent.
>>598037
>Before that, instead of rain, mist rose from the ground.
Are you for real?
>>596880
The bible itself is a series of beliefs that are definitely influenced by other cultures and civilizations of the ancient world, and the people who tend to say otherwise either want a direct, literally, word-for-word form of plagiarism/influence, or it somehow didn't happen.
In order to draw in the followers of non-Abrahamic beliefs, the early Christians adopted ideas and beliefs from other groups in order to more easily spread their faith. The global flood is just one example.
TL;DR - more or less, they did plagiarize it.
Yeah, Egyptian influence then Zoroastrian apocalyptism and Hellenism as well, so what
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instruction_of_Amenemope#Biblical_parallels
>>598072
Yes.
The first historical account I know of that brought it to the world's attention was barely a century ago by Rudolf Steiner, a psychic whom Cayce vouched for and said possessed the same gifts (though the two never met).
I'm surprised, but it is commonly accepted now in many Christian denominations because I asked my friend whose a pastor if he'd heard of that, and he was very familiar with and concurred with that belief.
>>598179
It only proves how much religious people will twist themselves to preserve their silly beliefs.
>>598179
The Indo-European protoreligion.
>>596925
It probably wasn't, or else the Samaritans wouldn't have it.
>>596925
Genesis was writing by Moses, many years be for the Babylonian enslavement of the land of Judea.
>>598047
>Weren't the Jews enslaved in Babylon?
Yes.
Did they get the myth from Babylon?
No.
Weren't they freed when Babylon was conquered
Yes.
and were given Judea
No,Judea was their Land before the Babylonians conquer them.
Is that what led to the whole Moses myth?
Not a Myth.
>>598305
>The overwhelming modern scholarly consensus is, according to William Dever, that Moses is a figure of myth, not of history.
>>598271
>Others believe that the real schism between the peoples did not take place until Hasmonean times when the Gerizim temple was destroyed in 128 BCE by John Hyrcanus.[10] The script of the Samaritan Pentateuch, its close connections at many points with the Septuagint, and its even closer agreements with the present Hebrew text, all suggest a date about 122 BCE.[11]
>>596880
>language regression trees shows that a flood myth existed in many cultures and probably traces back to an even older source
>GILGAMESH IS THE FUCKING ORIGIN FUCKING OLD TESTAMENT IS GAY ASS DONUT STEAL SHIT
>>598250
Think about what you're saying for a moment. Why on earth would anyone cemented in their convictions, in contemporary terms here, risk let alone, willingly pervert those ideologies with heretical beliefs?
Unless there's only one Truth and all religions are pulling from that.
>...coordinate the teachings, the philosophies of the east, and the west, the oriental and the occidental, the new truths and the old... Correlate not the differences, but where all religions meet- there is one God! "Know, O Israel, the Lord God is one!" Edgar Cayce Reading 991-1
>"what is the difference? ...Truth...is of the One source. Are there not trees of oak, of ash, of pine? There are the needs of these for meeting this or that experience...Then, all will fill their place. Find not fault with any, but rather show forth as to just how good a pine, or ash, or oak, or vine thou art!" Edgar Cayce Reading 254-87
>"For you grow to heaven, you don't go to heaven. It is within thine own conscience that ye grow there," (reading 3409-1).
The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof. Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
>>598339
>Why on earth would anyone cemented in their convictions, in contemporary terms here, risk let alone, willingly pervert those ideologies with heretical beliefs?
Because human beings are flawed and generally willing to do whatever improves their standing.
Your "cemented convictions" are overrated.
>>598313
I Disagree with him which i have a right to.
I believe Moses really Lived as it is told in the BIBLE. you may Disagree with me as is your right. i can not force you to Believe in something you clearly do not.
>>598411
Fair enough.
>>598320
It's closer to the Septuagint because the Septuagint is an older version. The oldest Masoretic texts are like a thousand years old, the oldest Septuagint texts are much older.
>>598431
The septuagint dates from the 3rd centry BC. That quote puts the Samaritan Pentateuch after that timeframe, so there's no real disagreement there.
>>598047
>Weren't the Jews enslaved in Babylon?
I don't usually believe 100% about any jew being enslaved. I always hear that excuse... "Babylonians were bad people", "Romans were bad people", "Spaniards were bad people", "Germans were bad people", "Palestinians were bad people". "Now all white males are bad people".
>>598278
Some parts of it no doubt, but Genesis refers to the Babylonian mythology, like Genesis 1 (note for fedoras: it refers to them as a way of showing Hebrew faith, not plagiarises them).
>>598411
>I believe Moses really Lived as it is told in the BIBLE.
Why do you believe this? Just wondering.
Abraham lived in the outskirts of Ur with is family and servants for what we can assume by these similarities between both was that he was part of priestly ruling family from Ur.
>>598278
>Moses
>>598411
But that isn't how truth works. I mean you have a right to believe whatever you want, but belief for the sake of belief is a disservice to yourself. If your not okay with that then please argue why you are right.
>>596936
Huh? I don't know that.
Its very possible, even probable, that the Jews took the story from Gilgamesh.
Does that mean they "ripped it off"? No. There are plenty of religions that have used other fables for their own. The Roman religion with Greek religion, Carthaginian religion with the Greek Heracles, Christianity with Judaism, etc. etc. Happens all the time.
>>598305
Did you ever consider that, even if the Jews took inspiration from Gilgamesh, and the story of Noah wasn't originally Jewish, that doesn't mean that the story is untrue? Just because the story may have originally come from elsewhere doesn't mean it didn't happen.
>>600654
Why wouldn't he?
There's no reason to discredit the Bible as an accurate chronicle of history.
Especially when all of human history only supports it.
[spoiler]http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/[/spoiler]
>>601736
[spoiler]I-Is the Quran legit too?[/spoiler]
>>601736
>some junk at the bottom of the Red Sea means Exodus was right
The ocean is full of junk. Finding a clock at the bottom of the ocean doesn't mean someone had an office at the bottom of the ocean. You are being absurd by linking to that absurd article.
PURE COINCIDENCE goyim
>>596880
GIRUGAMESH
>>600275
Again Genesis was written BEFORE the Babylonian enslavement.
>>600654
By my Faith i do and no one can take that away from me.
>>598498
That quote is biased in favor of the Masoretic as authoritative.
>>600944
>Did you ever consider that, even if the Jews took inspiration from Gilgamesh, and the story of Noah wasn't originally Jewish, that doesn't mean that the story is untrue? Just because the story may have originally come from elsewhere doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I never said it was untrue, i believe it happened as a Global Flood.
IF their was no Global food then why do almost if not all Civilizations have a flood story?
>>602104
Because all major civilizations first started around river valleys that seasonally flooded. Early civilizations were obsessed with flooding because it both gave them food and killed them by the hundreds. They created gods to appease just to feel like they had some control over it. The Pyramids were arguably a retarded attempt at a supernatural dam to keep the Nile from flooding.
>>596880
Wasn't the Judaic YHWH already based on the chief Canaanite god anyways?
Shared mythology isn't surprising.
>>602339
The Canaanites had names for all their gods, so no. YHWH is archaic Hebrew for "HE IS", which isn't a proper name.
>>602427
I was using YHWH in the context of the Judaic conception of God, the God that may be the basis is the Canaanite God EI, or it may have been some Egyptian God who's name escapes me.
I'm just saying this as biblical and anthropological arguments are warranted equal consideration.
>>602073
I don't feel like that's what's faith is suppose to be.
>>602427
>YHWH is archaic Hebrew for "HE IS".
Google said it is bullshit.
>>596880
Pagan faiths always tried make complete map of the spiritual world. So mix of myth normal for pagans. But after Semits faiths was gained influence they just did ignore all other myths.
>>596887
>All it does is make the idea that there was really a flood more legitimate
I've just made the idea that your post was true more legitimate.
Thank me later.
>>598064
>our subconscious rememberings of the ancient past
...right
>>601736
The jews were never slaves in Egypt, mate.
>>602485
"El" just means "Lord"
>>602823
>In appearance, it is possible to render YHWH (יהוה) as an archaic third person singular imperfect form of the verb hayah (אהיה) "to be" meaning, therefore, "He is". It is notably distinct from the root El, which can be used as a simple noun to refer to the creator deity in general, as in Elohim, meaning simply "God" (or gods). This interpretation agrees with the meaning of the name given in Exodus 3:14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person — ehyeh "I am".
>>596880
>plagiarize
>recording history is now plagiarism.
You would only consider it plagiarism if you considered both to be works of fiction but if they have some truth to them, the fact that they share similar aspects would not be surprising.
>>602427
>I am what I am.
Didn't they arise from the same region, in a time where folk tales and myths were shared orally throughout the regions?
Is it really plagiarism?
>>605099
Jews/Christians/Muslims came several centuries after Sumeria.
So yes, it's plagiarism.
test
What an adolescent way of seeing it. It's just a compendium of archetypical stories, obviously they meet because both were written by humans.
Jesus’ father was Aura Mazda, the god of Zoroastrianism, rather than Jehovah.
Jesus' teachings in the NT are far closer to that of Zoroastrianism than that of Moses; Moses did not teach about eternal life, paradise, resurrection, last judgement, virgin birth of Messiah, rise from the dead body after three days. These were from Zoroastrianism
>>606804
These were all orthodox Jewish beliefs. Only the Sadducees didn't hold them, because the Sadducees were sola scriptura.
>>596880
>Man and his family build a boat big enough for all the animals on earth. They gather 2 of each animal on the boat. They survive on that boat for ~40 days with all of the animals.
I can understand believing in religion figuratively for things like moral guidance but I'll never understand how people, who aren't fanatics, can believe it literally and not believe anything else that is crazy unless it is in the bible.
>>606814
Yeah, just stupids believe that. Others just see tales about the force of nature.
>>606809
In Jesus’ time, Pharisees believed in resurrection and everlasting life while Sadducees believed in only Mosaic laws and denied resurrection and eternal life (Luke 20: 27).
I have no idea about when or from whom Jews first learned the idea of resurrection. But I still believe that it is certain that Moses did not believe in resurrection. Had he believed it, the idea of resurrection would have been written in the Pentateuch.
>>606829
If you talk about resurrection, I don't think Jews ever believed that. If you talk about inmortality, don't know about the jews, but on Christianism I think it's a greek thing.
>>606829
Pharisees held to Sacred Tradition, the Sadduccees were sola scriptura. Christ himself was an Essence who subscribed to Sacred Tradition
>>606845
By Sacred Tradition by the way, I mean the "Oral Torah", which supposedly came from Moses.
>>606804
The three magi might've been Zoroastrians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP6D0JI4W2s
>>606826
That's a fallacy. I hate when somebody justifies the christian Bible saying "...no, this part is not literal, but the other one yes."
>>607019
Yeah, you can hate it if you want, but I didn't say that. Where's the fallacy?
