I'm going to drop a truth bomb on you, /his/:
The measure of any given society's civilization and success is how well they respect homosexuals and other sexual minorities. It's true.
Just think about any of the admirable civilizations in history: The ancient greeks who gave birth to Western philosophy and democracy? Accepting of gays. The mighty Roman Republic? Accepting of gays. The culture of the fearsome samurais? Accepting of gays.
During the dark ages, when homosexuals were oppressed, society regressed. When homophobic religious influence was finally driven back by the age of enlightenment, Western societies started to eclipse all others. And today, the most successful nations in the history of mankind are those which are at the same time the most accepting of gays in the history of mankind, allowing them to marry.
At critical junctures in history, it's often gay people who helped further the progress of their nation: Who transformed Prussia into an European great power? Gay old Frederick II. Who was instrumental to the American victory in the war of independence? Gay old Steuben. Who was instrumental to British victory over Nazi Germany? Gay old Turing.
People who are opposed to gay rights effectively, even if unwittingly, are participating in destroying the success of their nation, as demonstrated by history.
>>529497
Dont know if this is bait or you're just retarded but no, just no.
>>529497
Omg, anon, you're so cute. So, any objective evidence to back up your claims, or just loose "hurr, this place accepted gays so that's why they were smart!"?
All those great civilizations would see homosexual marriage as a farce, so I hope that isn't the gay right you're arguing for.
England once had a gay king who was the worst tyrant we've ever had, he almost made the entire kingdom implode with because of his insistence of being a massive fag and when he was eventually deposed in a revolt he was ironically rumoured to have been killed with by having a red hot poker rammed up his ass.
>>529628
I don't want to agree with a tripfag, but this guy is right. Homosex isn't the same as homomarriage.
Thanks to the OP who is ironically pro-gay in such an absurd notion that it makes people who sincerely think gay people are fine look dumb for the audience of /pol/tards that leech off this board.
>>529497
sounds to me like cherry picked correlation without causation
>>529651
Active gay people are fine, if they at least dedicate themselves to one person. Sinful, certainly, but so are all fornicators.
It's things like gay parades and gay marriage that are not remotely fine.
>>529651
This is where the extremes meet to fling shit at each other.
>>529497
Western societies gained advantages militarily and economically at a time when they were as homophobic as the Islamic world. While it is true that wealthier societies can afford to be more tolerant, the correlation isn't very strong.
The unfortunate truth is that often some of the biggest forces for change and good in the world were also douches in other areas. The US and Britain for instance led the democratization of large societies while at the same time practicing slavery, colonialism and executing people for "buggery".
>>529497
Greeks were meme gay by the way, not actually gay. Much like how 4chan pretends to love traps.
>>529665
I mean considering for centuries marriage was a way for a guy to own a woman, I think making the institution a tad more inclusive isn't gonna immediately cause the rapture or whatever.
Of course, god isn't real anyway so nobody needs to worry.
>>529679
>Greeks were meme gay by the way, not actually gay.
What does this mean? I'm confus.
Greeks didn't have the concept of "gay". They had rigid conceptions of masculinity/power and femininity/subservience that relate to the contemporaneous pitcher-catcher dichotomy, but weren't constrained by modern conceptions of sexual orientation.
>4chan pretends to love traps
You haven't been around much.
>>529679
>pretends to love traps
I think you'll find its very real my friend.
>>529679
Ever read Herodotus? Plato? Aristophanes?
>>529665
I get that your religion would be against gay marriage, that makes sense. But a parade? Lol who gives a shit?
>>529686
It completely destroys it as a basis for reproduction. It is a symbol for sex and procreation being united in public consciousness. Most sex wasn't for procreation, but all procreation comes from sex. This just moves us greatly toward the future envisioned by The Dialectic of Sex
>>529703
Ever see a video of a San Francisco gay parade?
>>529713
>It completely destroys it as a basis for reproduction.
I mean marriage was actually based in property, but even if this was true, why is this bad? It's not like the world is in danger of a low population - the opposite even.
Besides, what straight couple isn't gonna fuck and have babies because somewhere out there two guys got married? And then they fucked?
>>529689
It started as literally a meme in the aristocratic Archaic Greek community based around gymnasium culture. Surrounded by nude men all day every day at the gym, symposia, athletic events, etc shifted the focus of Greek beauty to the idealization the male figure, including boys. Soon enough ritual (sex acts) became part of the package.
>>529713
I have. Care to elaborate?
>>529725
Greeks got the gay from seeing dongs? Maybe Greek riots are caused by violent video-games.
>>529723
>even if this was true, why is this bad
It takes away the traditional public institution that glorifies natural procreation. The very idea of natural birth as opposed to artificial incubation might one day seem foreign to us, and that frightens me for obvious reasons.
>It's not like the world is in danger of a low population - the opposite even.
Okay, I really don't have a problem with Muslim immigration, but the idea of them dominating Europe though numbers due to reproduction, does concern me.
>Besides, what straight couple isn't gonna fuck and have babies because somewhere out there two guys got married?
A big part of the draw to marriage and starting a family through procreation, is its cultural significance. That bedrock has actually been eroded away more by high divorce rates than gay marriage will ever damage it, but gay marriage is still a bad thing.
Correlation does not imply causation
>>529735
They glamorize immoral sexuality in the middle of street, trying to force its normalcy.
>>529747
What's your problem with artificial incubation exactly?
>>529747
>It takes away the traditional public institution that glorifies natural procreation. The very idea of natural birth as opposed to artificial incubation might one day seem foreign to us, and that frightens me for obvious reasons.
They're not so obvious to me, I don't really have any issue with it. Gay marriage is bad because test tube babies? Do gays make people have abortions, too?
>Okay, I really don't have a problem with Muslim immigration, but the idea of them dominating Europe though numbers due to reproduction, does concern me.
They'll go from like, 2% of the population to 7%. The right make a fuss out of literally nothing, as usual.
>That bedrock has actually been eroded away more by high divorce rates than gay marriage will ever damage it, but gay marriage is still a bad thing.
Surely giving people the ability to more easily leave a relationship that doesn't work can only be a good thing?
>>529751
well to anyone who takes sex for what it actually is and doesn't try to shove spooky iron age morality onto it, normalcy is the right word
>>529751
Don't bother with preaching morals here. You will just get shitted upon by relativists and degenerates.
>>529751
I bet they eat fish on a sunday too, the fucking degenerates.
>>529760
First of all, pregnancy is the most intimate human experience there is, because you share a body for nine months. It's on a level way beyond sex, but pregnancy is being seen more and more as simply "inconvenient".
Once parents are severed from kids like that, well then who is to say the parents will seen contribute any genetic material? If BNW doesn't result, the at least kids will be made by their parent(s) to accord with the latest magazine covers. Human life will cease to be seen as inherently valuable, procreation will be controlled by either the state (BNW) or the market (magazine covers), children will become another consumerist item, and just as disposable.
>>529744
Can't be the dongs, if one can even call those lil' peckers a mighty word like "dong."
>>529781
The ding-a-lings, then.
>>529778
Sunday is a feast day.It's the day Christ is Risen. It's Wednesday (betrayal) and Friday (crucifixion) that are fast days. The idea that Sunday should be something solemn came from the West, probably initially through the Catholic idea of "Solemn Mass," but far more aggravated by the Puritans (since Catholics also fasted in Friday and Wednesday, Sunday was generally celebratory) and so on.
>>529790
I hope you're named after Constantine V. I respect Iconoclasm in a sort of "I will destroy all your pictures and shit" kind of way.
>>529798
alimony
>The measure of any given society's civilization and success is how well they respect homosexuals and other sexual minorities
Did you forget women exist? I won't even remind you of foreigners, poor people or slaves.
>During the dark ages, when homosexuals were oppressed, society regressed.
Your fedora is showing.
> And today, the most successful nations in the history of mankind are those which are at the same time the most accepting of gays in the history of mankind
"The owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of the dusk". How do you know which are the successful nations nowadays?
>>529843
>How do you know which are the successful nations nowadays?
Are you saying we're unable to identify the most developed nations in the world today?
If the whole survival/expression values dichotomy holds, then this is probably true. As people become wealthier, and no longer risk death from starvation or disease, there's not as much need to insist on total solidarity and unity. And in the specific case of homosexuality, you don't need to have large families to ensure you have plenty of workers for the farm and enough surviving children to care for you in old age.
There's also the view that self-expression values make an advanced society more productive and capable, as they encourage innovation, help people find their most productive niche, and encourage people to point out any problems they see.
>>529497
correlation =/= causatiom
off yourself
t. me
>>529747
Procreation is still a very popular method of having a family.
>>529497
correlation does not always mean causation
>>529497
>people get in debt for that
>>529780
That sounds a little alarmist. What about adoption, surrogate mothers, etc? Is there any evidence to suggest that children with these unconventional relationships to their "parents" are less loved and emotionally healthy than traditional children?
>>529497
>Who was instrumental to British victory over Nazi Germany? Gay old Turing.
Turing who was forced by the British government to undergo hormone treatments, grew breasts, and then killed himself?
Not exactly a good example of a country in which homosexuality was respected.
Also on that line, who were the most successful countries during the colonization period? None of them respected homosexuality or gay rights.
>>531967
>Also on that line, who were the most successful countries during the colonization period?
Those barbarian oppressors were not admirable civilizations.
