What were the weirdest experiments that actually happened? Preferably from WWII era but everything is welcome.
>>523604
Stuff like the Soviet Flying-tank you mean?
>>523604
cia mind control drugs
>>523611
Yes what was that even supposed to achieve?
>>523604
The Nazis figuring out the treatment of hypothermia though Concentration camp experimentation.
>>523604
That time Taser International got sheep high on meth then tased them to see if tasers worked on people who are on meth,
http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/04/14/2329223/testing-the-safety-of-tasers-on-meth-addled-sheep
>>523626
The ability to airdrop full-sized tanks to support paratroops and partisans.
Russian experiments on keeping a dog's head alive after cutting it off from its body, and also on transplanting a dog's head and forepaws onto another dog.
>>523689
>>523654
Those were the nips bro.
>>523689
That's just fucking stupid how would they even progress from that point? Make some The Thing like chimeras?
>>523723
Pointless cruelty to animals is about 85% of science.
>>523723
I assume the point is to find a way to keep humans alive even if their bodies have been damaged beyond repair. Possibly also on reviving the dead.
>>523697
Nah, nips experienced on bio weapons..also testing bombs and flamethrowers against live targets...humans.
>>523604
Personally I think the weirdest and most interesting is the dog head experience...just think about they could do over 50 years ago..
We are only now trying it for humans seriously.
When, and I say when, scientists/surgeons get it working, it will change the world.
>>523616
Timothy Leary was probably a CIA agent and the purpose of entire hippie drug experimenting during 60's and 70's was to hook American youth on drugs like LSD so they would lose interest in political activism
>>523737
Having new insights, however they pointless they might seem to the average person are never worthless.
>b-but muh animals
fuck off
>>523739
that's actually pretty grotesque
imagine that thing coming right towards you to kill you, and the last thing you see before death are peaceful eyes of the dog inside, watching you with love
>>523757
>LSD
>hooked
it is not addictive
>>523604
Statins monkey bastard children.
It is a well known fact that the Soviet Union attempted to make Human Ape hybrids. It was done by putting a Human and Ape, each of the opposite gender to one another in a closest full of lube. General Secretary Stalin as leader of the Soviet nation decided to partake in these experiments so as to set the example for all proletariats living under the Soviet Union.
>>523697
The nips figured out frostbite.
>>523768
It may not be physically addictive in the sense that your body will shut down without it but it may be, like extract, psychologically addictive in the sense that you felt really well and really want to do it again.
>>523777
It doesn't even work like that for the vast majority of people since it's so overwhelming and spiritual. It's actually a bit anti-addictive in that most people are not in a rush to do it again.
I doubt the CIA were trying to find a super addictive drug for the kids to get hooked on. They already had heroin. They were looking for an interrogation drug, a truth serum basically.
>>523771
It worked, see pic related
>>523604
Theres that one where the brought that dogs head back to "life"
>>523739
is that illustration for real? it look like shit from a video game
The United States Air Force developed a Metal Gear style mech to load nukes onto planes in the 1960s.
>>523866
no. it's fantasy based on the real soviet dog head preservation experiments which were moreso about testing a crude artificial heart than making a mech.
>>523899
>let's waste gorillions of dollars on something that can be achieved by a forklift!
>>523908
Well generally speaking, the Air Force has no fucking clue what it's doing. (That's coming from a member on active duty)
But in all seriousness, it was designed to keep the ammo troop safe from potential radiation poisoning.
>>523928
They get hazard pay every time there is port a shitter around. Thats all i know.
>>523758
THIS
+1
>>523777
Nah dude, take it from someone who's vialwashed 14 hits, it's not something you do often.
btw, is there anything real about the Reichsflugscheibe?
Diones trying to govern Siracuse with platonian laws and phylosophy.
After six months, sick and tired of how people were constatly sabotating his efforts to build a better government he started killing people like every other tyrant.
>>523758
This
>>524092
It was an idea, but they never really figured out how it was supposed to fly. That's why they never attempted to build a prototype.
>>524135
Also
THE PANATOMIC CANAL
or: creating a wider Panama canal with nuclear explosions. It was parto of the so called "plowshare project", a movement for the pacific use of nuclear energy.
>>524092
It started as a thought experiment because round bodies would generate lift with it's entire fuselage, instead of just the wings mainly. It was more of trying to pioneer a new way of flight.
Atlantropa
>>523689
Wasn't there some guy who managed to bring two dogs back to life? Not the two headed dog thing but actual revival.
>>523626
It would give the soviets flying tanks
>>523739
Russians were on some grade A drugs during the cold war.
>>523739
It was definitely Unit 731 that worked on frostbite, not the Nazis.
I remember reading years ago about the US trying to develop a weapon that would give everyone in the range of it homosexual urges which would distract them from the mission because they wanna suck their buddies cock.
Don't think it was ever actually used or tested but it was a pretty "interesting" weapon idea.
>>524661
What a weird concept.
>>523739
This is fake
>>523604
Soviet wanted to turn Siberian rivers to south, to irrigate Central Asia and change climate of Siberia
>>525554
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb
>>525476
Everyone was.
>>523777
you have never done LSD
>>523697
>>523739
>>525532
>>523773
It was the Nazis who conducted experiments on hypothermia though, which was what the original guy said>>523654
Their findings are still used today and the ethics of doing that are much debated.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2044.2004.04034.x/full
I guess no one else is going to get us good lab quality data on hypothermia by putting people in cold water until they scream with pain then trying out ways of heating them up.
>>523604
Modern China (the Gommie one) has given their scientists/anyone interested the go ahead to experiment on Human Embryos.
Project Pluto
a nuclear powered cruise missle that would deliver nuclear bombs and then fly around spewing radiation and destroying stuff with sonic booms until it ran out of fuel. Nobody was crazy enough to test fire it so they scrapped the program
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto
>>525916
>Their findings are still used today
>good lab quality data on hypothermia
Except they aren't - they are not scientifically sound.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199005173222006
>>525576
but the real deal was even weirder
and the weirdest part is that the experiments were succesful
>>525105
>>523604
>>523654
did mengele ever actualy achieve anything?
the way i get it one of the basic things he was trying to figure out is how to cause multi-pregnancyes, like triplets, quadruplets
then theres that legend about him escaping to brazil and perfecting the proces in some village where people still have twins on average
The US wanted to set off a nuke on the Moon. The explosion would have been visible to the naked eye and lead to USSR surrendering like in Rocky 4 or some faggoty shit. Then they realized it would open the door to militarizing space and scrapped it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_A119
>>526376
how would nuking the moon even...
americans realy had no real understanding of soviets or how they functioned
>>526384
The entire outside world is a mystery to the average Joe in the US. I met a few who worked in my hometown and they were surprised it was not a crime-ridden socialist shithole. You could imagine the look on their faces when I told them the building I live in is older than their country. I have to assume their high-ranking generals are very much the same.
t. /mitteleuropa/
>>526410
but this results in some hilarious shit, like the time some US soldiers got captured by north koreans and some of them chose to switch sides
now, any other human culture would naturaly assume the soldiers were coerced, tortured, threatened, or that they just chose to commit treason for simple human reasons like better food and treatment
but not americans
they were completely confused by this, this wasnt supposed to happen, how is it humanly possible for a american soldier to choose communism of all things, impossible, it must be the koreans, or even worse, the soviets, have developed some strange new technique or technology by which they can brainwash and reprogram people - it must be the only rational explanation!
so by cold war logic US had to respond by developing this on their own, so what they did was get CIA to get some dude who was a professor of psychology or something, former military, or such, cant remember now, to basicaly mindrape students in these special, 'trials', people would simply sit in a room facing him and talk
sound simple, enough, except the guy was a genuine sadist, and went way beyond and above the call of duty, and seriously fucked people up mentaly, one of them later becoming the unabomber
i mean they were just doing this to ordinary students, kids had no fucking chance
the conclusion of the experiment was basicaly that with enough screwing you can cause people to emotionaly colapse(what a revelation) and that more experiments are needed
>>523604
Human-ape hybridization experiments.
>>526249
>I mean, even your own link mentions the unreliability of that data...
My own link is a criticism of using the data, as is yours, criticisms that would not exist if other scientists weren't using the data...
>>523757
>hook American youth on drugs like LSD so they would lose interest in political activism
musta been pre'y dumb of em in retrerspeck
>>524092
ayy
>>526524
Classic
Some of the Nazi 'Wonder Weapons' were pretty wacky.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wunderwaffe
>>523604
The Philidelphia project
>>523626
something like this for example: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDAzmFiQVYs
>>523739
more
>>523697
No, it was the nazis. specifically the Luftwaffe, as they wanted to improve fighter pilot safety procedures.
>>525176
pretty self-explainatory desu senpai
>>525773
I have and I find nothing strange about what he said. Why do you think people do LSD? To feel bad?
I remember hearing about one really crazy weapon. It was basically a faggot bomb that the US designed during the Cold War. It was suppose to release chemicals that would turn enemy combatants and civilians gay and lower their moral. I'm not sure if it was real since it's so preposterous. Although if it was tested in California it would explain a lot.
>>523757
>>526469
It's not addictive in any sense
This might be hard to understand for someone who's never done LSD, but it's not something you can just pop and do at random (unless you're microdosing but that's more of a medicinal boost, like an LSD coffee)
There's a reason its called 'tripping'
Tolerance also builds fast. One dose of pure LSD that made you trip one day may not work in two days.
>>523604
Mengele injected ink into patients eyes to see if you could artificially change their eye colour.
He also injected diseases into twins. Sometimes he only injected into one of the twins. When the injected twin died of whatever disease was the topic of the day, he instantly killed the other twin so that he could perform post mortem on both of them at the same time.
Once he sowed two twins together to see if he could artificially produce conjoined twins.
>>528117
Uhm, I'd like to dispute that. There are cases of people who have taken to the "other world" of tripping and prefer that one to this one. In a sense that is to become psychologically dependant on the drug. The jury is still out on Syd Barrett, but the conventional held thought is that it was LSD that did him in. The other band members said he was constantly tripping on LSD up until the point where that become his normal state of mind.
Personally, I believe it was LSD coupled with cannabis which can produce some bad trips.
>>528130
I'm surprised he even had doctors degree.
>>528347
Roaring twenties. Anything was possible.
>>523899
LIBERTY PRIME ONLINE
>>523723
Actually, they did it to prove that organ inplantaion is possible, it was cruel but as far as I know the same guy who did that did the first hearth transplation as well.
>>528522
but anon animal testing is cruel
>>528151
sure but, do you have any idea of the ammounts of acid that it takes to acomplish that
i mean its not like theres a billion sid barretts in the world, wast mayority of people that trip do it a few times a year tops, maybe some students do a little more
not saying its safe or wathever, people have been known to go on psychotic episodes and shit like that, just that its a radical example
>>528526
>a billion sid barretts in the world
That's a brilliant idea for a book!
>>523604
Russian Sleep Experience or something close to that
>>528547
That's just a creepypasta.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/ghosts/russiansleep.asp
>>528151
>infinite trips and other dumb myths
I don't give a shit if your grandpas brothers wifes brothers daughters best friend who knew a guy online got 'stuck in a trip' or 'tripped so hard he prefers the alternate LSD reality now'
Nothing you can say can dispute this, LSD is not addictive. Corn is not addictive. Licking paper is not addictive. Do people still form addictions? No fucking shit they do, but for the 99.999999999999999% of us, it doesn't matter, because it's not habit forming. The amount of fucking acid you would need to do to end up like that is ridiculous.
>>528587
>Nothing you can say can dispute this, LSD is not addictive. Corn is not addictive. Licking paper is not addictive.
That's just bullshit tho, because from the get go we were discussing both physical and psychological addictions. You can get addicted to corn. Fuck, I saw a documentary about a person who got addicted to potatoes.
So you're just wrong.
>>528660
Addiction is a tough one to crack.
>>523764
>it just wanted to play fetch
>but I was the only one with a bone
>>528660
Someone getting addicted to a substance =/= the substance is addicted
>>528711
As I said, we were discussing possible psychological addictions from the get go. There are numerous cases of people getting addicted to drugs which aren't physically addictive because what they do to you. To ignore psychological addictions is to ignore half of addictions.
>>528587
>Corn is not addictive. Licking paper is not addictive.
Bot of these can be addictive. Corn due to the sugar, and licking paper due to god knows what reason. There's people addicted to go as far as eating paper. The sugar addiction is a physical one while the other two are psychological ones.
>>528716
>>528719
the point is whether the addiction comes from the person's own messed up brain, or from the chemical itself
for things like meth and heroin psychological addiction is mostly from the drugs effects on reinforcement and reward pathways in the brain. obviously no one truly enjoys the bitter taste of dope or the feel of a needle on their own, but the drug creates the association
is someone becomes addicted to LSD its because they were fucked up already, just like if someone became addicted to corn. the original point was that LSD isn't an addictive substance and that point still stands
>>528744
>the point is whether the addiction comes from the person's own messed up brain, or from the chemical itself
Wrong. That wasn't the point we're arguing at all. Sorry, but if so we're talking about two completely different things. To exclude the dangers of psychological addiction when discussing drugs is just sperging fucking autism.
>>528755
>To exclude the dangers of psychological addiction when discussing drugs is just sperging fucking autism.
no its not
just because you're mentally unstable and have personal issues and latch onto everything doesn't mean the rest of us do
chemical addiction is a public health issue
psychological addiction is a personal health issue
>>528755
>>528716
probably way more than half
>>528773
>>528761
>psychological addiction is a personal health issue
This
Just because some people can't handle it doesn't mean it should be illegal
>>528780
who ever mentionel legality itt?
>>528744
> The original point was that LSD isn't an addictive substance and that point still stands.
It's true but it still doesn't go against the notion that someone may become (for whatever reason) addictive to LSD, may it be due to their mental health or whatever reason.
This very chart >>528773 says there's a chance, even if it's low, to get addicted (or be addicted to it).
>>528786
Shitposters gotta shitpost.
>>528786
he probably thought the original argument was something about hippy degenerates who will destroy society with their lsd addiction or something
>>528778
Alcohol seems way low for physical harm. Both being able to die from withdrawal and the decisions people make while drunk.
>>526367
> some village where people still have twins on average
That part is actually true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A2ndido_God%C3%B3i
All secret records from the surrounding governments indicate Mengele never lived there, though.
>>528832
Yea it does, I'm not sure which aspect the graphs are focusing on, I've seen other which divide it between potential harm to used and and harm to others. I guess just don't take one graph one it's own as pure fact.
>>528842
This is the type of graph I mean
>>528151
I think you're conflating addiction with dissociation. LSD can fuck you up but it's not "addictive" in the same way that meth or opiates are..
>>528862
Meth rarely produces physical addiction symptoms. Same goes for cocaine.
Opiates, nicotine, benzos, and alcohol are all highly physically addictive.
>>528855
Its wierd that alcohol is so much more widely accepted.
>>528872
Reflects the less-than-average thinking that goes on in most peoples brains
There are people who honestly believe that legal = safe because nobody has told them otherwise
>>528901
Sugar is definitely addictive to some degree, I've seen fmri's showing the same areas that light up with cocaine, light up with sugar (to a lesser extent obviously).
>>528094
Did nbome and thinks it's what lsd is like
Lsd isn't something you want to do regularly. You do it to discover something, would you want to be in the jungle discovering all the time?
>>528891
Cigarettes were pretty harshly judged. I think education does have an impact.
>>528923
There's been research looking at ketamine, psilocybin, LSD, and MDMA as treatments for depression etc.
http://idpc.net/alerts/2015/03/how-four-illegal-drugs-are-treatin-mental-illness
>>528934
Not to mention LSD microdosing!
I hope to god that I can go buy LSD supplements by the time I'm 40.
>>528948
neat
>>523758
>>b-but muh animals
im not against animal testing per-say but trivializing animal suffering on a humanities (and therefore philosophy) board makes you look incredibly stupid
>>525476
It was because of an iron curtain. My dad has a told me a cool story about Russian experimentation during the cold war and the results. If anyone wants to hear about it I can green text.
>>528872
>>528891
Alcohol has been ingrained in almost every human society that has had the means to manufacture it.
The other drugs on the chart that don't predate advanced chemistry (tobacco, cannabis, khat, mushrooms) have only seen historically sporadic usage, and/or were limited to rituals or priestly/shamanic castes
>>528891
people dont think this at all, its just that most people dont realy care
>>528867
No, but meth has extremely frequent dependency. LSD has neither physically addictive symptoms nor frequent cases of dependency. Regularity of use is just generally not the issue with problem psychedelic users, they don't break into people's houses for money to buy tabs. It's the dissociation and HPPD that affects their quality life afterward.
>>528948
>literally Soma
Probably one of the worst things I could imagine.t.
>>523777
I have met people who do LSD far more frequently than is healthy (ie multiple times per week), so in some individuals there is definitely potential for abuse.
However, for the VAST majority, an acid trip is so intense and overwhelming that there is no desire to do it immediately afterward, even if the experience itself was a positive one.
>>528923
>Lsd isn't something you want to do regularly.
LSD isn't something YOU want to do regularly, there are many cases of people who want and do use it regularly. I provided one earlier.
>>528761
just... what?
Ugh, I give up. LSD can be addictive just like anything can be addictive. Over the course of history many people have become addicted to LSD just as many people having become addicted to Alcohol or ecstacy. Neither of which are inherently, chemically addictive but that is not the be all and end all of addiction. Accept this or ignore it, the latter will only be to the detriment of your own intellect.
Next.
>>529197
>many people have become addicted to LSD just as many people having become addicted to Alcohol or ecstacy
u wot m8
>Neither of which are inherently, chemically addictive
What, are you referring to physical dependency, because this can occur with alcohol, but not with LSD.
>>529223
It can occur?
I'm mistaken then. I do know that people can also become addicted to alcohol without actually becoming addicted to the dopamine, i.e. the chemicals. Rather they get addicted to just "feeling good", which is usually the dangers with most drugs.
>>529235
Yea being addicted to 'feeling good' is psychological dependency. But if a heavy alcoholic just quits cold turkey they will get withdrawals and DT's, I've even heard that alcohol is actually the only drug were the withdrawals can kill you.
LSD is actually a serotonin analogue (same with mushrooms and mescaline), which is one of the three major neurotransmitters, pic related. i'm pretty sure it's not retarded to call LSD the equivalent of consuming some seretonin and temporarily having higher levels of this in your brain.
>>529256
>I've even heard that alcohol is actually the only drug were the withdrawals can kill you.
What the fuck. That's crazy. Why is this legal and so many other things not...
>>529273
It could only really happen to massive alcoholics, like drinking from the moment they wake up till when they pass out.
>>529273
Humans found alcohol first.
Also, there was that whole prohibition thing.
But yeah, considering it on its own merits instead of social views, alcohol is on par with things like cocaine in terms of danger.
>>529235
Fucking lol. Alcohol withdrawal can kill in extreme cases. What do they teach you kids in school?
>>528094
I took lsd and similiars, like 25 nbome and lsa, several times, but i wont do that anymore, its cool but too dangerous
>>529292
>you kids
>implying you've reached the age of 20
nice try
>>529076
Do it for science.
>>523616
This. MKUltra was real. Very real.
>>529290
>Benzodiazepine withdrawal is close apparently
Yea i've heard that, like massive physical pain when you stop. I was actually on 1mg of clonazepam a while back, but i tapered the dose down, swapped to diazepam for like 2 weeks,then stopped, it's the half-life with benzo's that fuck it up. You just have to not be stupid about drugs, if you went from a high dose/large recreational dose and stop cold turkey you can have a seizure.
>>529357
>>528522
>>529357
are you fucking kidding me ?
they actualy transplanted a living breathing thinking head
>>529372
There's potentially going to be a human head transplant, some guy with muscular atrophy has volunteered.
http://www.sciencealert.com/controversial-chinese-surgeon-signs-on-to-human-head-transplant-project
>>528842
"nutmeg(oral)" 7:1 ratio clean/fatal, kek
>>529442
and the fag that deleted his post was asking ''what progress?'' as in buu huu animal rights
>>529273
Because whilst it kills the poor it does so after they have lived their most productive years and in those years keeps them from political activity
Meanwhile heroin and cocaine were lethal much quicker and so impacted productivity
Even then, neither is massively clamped down at the top end as it acts as super coffee (cocaine use is rampant in business execs and politicians) or for creativity (Amy winehouse own grandma went on national radio defending her heroin use)
>In November 1906, Richard Pearson Strong, then head of the Philippine Biological Laboratory, inoculated 24 men--inmates of Manila's Bilibid Prison--with a cholera vaccine that somehow had been contaminated with plague organisms; 13 men died.
>>528773
Wait, people get addicted to Nitrous Oxide?
>>523771
You're telling me Stalin banged monkeys? I can see that.
>>525601
And instead they drained the Aral Sea and made Central Asia even shittier.
>>525949
This is how Kim is going to shoot himself in the foot.
>>529745
I'd guess that graph includes some sort of measure for the potential of psychological dependence, rather than just physical dependence, see marijuana (which isn't doesn't have physical dependence potential)
>>529762
I guess, but it's still weird to think that there's some on out there hooked on NO.
>>529771
Well it is pretty fun, but the short duration would seem to prevent someone from being hardcore into it I guess. maybe it's just referring to people doing it daily or something, not actually all day though.
>>529782
Definitely seems like the consensus, but how you do it makes a fairly big difference too, with eating it<smoking it<IV
Injecting shit is the fast track way to get fucked up
t. someone who's done a couple of different hard drugs 2-3 times, but never IV.
>>529783
Well duh, I doubt they'be be lugging a cannister of it all the time (heh that's a funny image to think of).
>>529782
Yeah. It's not called "The king of drugs" by many for no reason. It's highly addictive and abuse will destroy your liver. Opiates in general are no bueno in that regard, but heroin hits way harder than morphine and other common opiates.
Fentanyl is more potent, but it's hard to get and it's much easier to OD.
>>529797
just have a scuba tank of NO and gas mask on all day bruh.
>>529456
What did i miss?
(First time here)
>>529076
Post it bro.
>>526410
exaggeration really
>>529762
As someone who has smoked heavily everyday for years, it sure as fuck is. Loss of appetite and sleep to start.
>>529849
Yea true, I guess it's actually a bit of a false dichotomy dividing it between physical and psychological anyway.
>>523690
But did it work
unit 731 definitely had some weird stuff going on
>>526384
it says in that article that the soviets were working on something similar
Interesting thread until shitters arguing about muh drugs
>>523768
http://youtu.be/5vt-UIKS3jw
>>523771
No, the experiment was done by inseminating female apes with human male sperm, it was done by a soviet scientist in the Congo irc. The project was stopped before they could try inseminating human females with ape sperm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov
>>527279
fake as shit
>>531423
>dog heads are capable of manipulating complex machinery
>>530097
If anyone still cares he did it twice. The first dog allegedly lived for around a week but he did it again and it lasted a month or two
>>531031
This. Fucking faggots.
>>523604
The Chilean Synco project.
>>529126
kek, thought the same thing at the "work becomes fun" moment
>>529126
Is it truly any different than antidepressants though?
Good thread ruined by fucking LSD junkies
Go talk about your shitty drugs over at /b/ please
>>523689
There are many things to say on these experiments, firstly that the famous video where they bring the dog back alive is partly fake (as part of soviet propaganda). The USSR was free of most ethical concerns regarding scientific experiment (like when they tried to make Human/simian hybrid), but I read one of the objective of these machines was to do something "productive" of the thousands of russian men killed in the early phases of WWII, so the medics could retrieve blood/organs of freshly deceased soldiers by keeping them "running".
>>531815
not a bad idea tbH
>>523604
Lets see how deep of a hole we can drill Ivan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole
>>526556
not really
Just look at how fucking retarded the original hippie generation was
Then look at how retarded modern day hippies are
Acid gives people an undeserved sense of self-importance/depth and detaches them from true reality
Most of the people i've met who do lsd regularly are self described Marxists, while never having read any of his works and knowing absolutely nothing about economics or politics
It definitely makes people more gullible and easily manipulated
>t. guy who sold acid for 8 years
>>531873
It's like someone wanted to achieve his childhood dream for goverment's money.
>ctrf+f Tuskegee syphilis experiment
>zero results
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment
plebs. also americans are evil, really really evil.
>>531423
prove it
