How the hell did circumcision arise?
Washing your dick was hard back in those days.
>>472642
In an age before modern hygienic or safe sexual practices, circumcision went a long way to prevent infections of all sorts. It was mostly a practical measure that was then written and into a few religious law codes.
>>472642
Just a form of body modification some people thought looked nice. No different than tattoos, head wrappings, piercings, etc.
Push by Christians because they considered masturbation a sin. I think it was the early 20th century thing. Might be 19th century.
Then later on, they tried to rationalize it as "cleanliness" thing. The cleanliness argument doesn't work out when you consider that europe is largley uncircumcized and has very little aids issue.
>>473037
Well my foreskin was too tight so i had to be cut
>>473037
>Push by Christians
Except it's literally a Jewish practice that signified a covenant with God. Since early Christians implied that the old religious laws of the Jews no longer applied to them after Jesus, there are plenty of Christians who don't even get circumcised. Fuck off with your revisionist bullshit.
>>473037
Pushed something that was commanded in the first few pages of the Old Testament? Pushed by the branch most liberal about it? Fuck off.
>>472670
This, it saved life and was there for the same reason that you cleaned yourself with hand than the one you ate with.
>>473063
>Except it's literally a Jewish practice that signified a covenant with God. Since early Christians implied that the old religious laws of the Jews no longer applied to them after Jesus, there are plenty of Christians who don't even get circumcised. Fuck off with your revisionist bullshit.
It existed before Jews.
>>473063
>there are plenty of Christians who don't even get circumcised
The by large majority of Christian countries don't cut their dicks. It's only in the US and some African countries where you'll see a country where most religious people are Christians and they do it.
>>473068
Then why it was so minoritary before the rise of Islam? Romans abhorred it.
>>473076
>minoritary
This word doesn't exist though.
Shouldn't you just have said MINOR.
>>473076
If you mean to imply few people did it, you're wrong, it was widespread in the middle east and Africa.
It didn't even originate with Abrahemic religions but before them.
>>473126
>It didn't even originate with Abrahemic religions but before them.
That's not true.
>>473075
>It's only in the US and some African countries
That's a strange combination. I wonder why US and African countries.
>>473076
>minoritary
I feel like this could be a word but I'm not sure what it would mean.
>>473211
With the US, it's because of anti-masturbation puritans of the late 19th and early 20th century pushing it -- which was also a thing that gained traction in other Angolo countries but died out far quicker in popularity.
In Africa: it's a mix with the predominant Christian countries. The ones in which it's popular also often have very high rates of female circumcision from popular cultural beliefs in them or from their own puritan movements that have gone on over the recent decades. It seems like a lot of puritan and social conservative movements spawn out of periods of experienced social decay and downfall, so it isn't that shocking for a lot of those nations in which it's popular in to have adopted it after a bunch of catastrophic events in their recent history.
>>473242
Why not Christian/Catholic partd of South America?
>>473291
parts* sorry
The Jews borrowed the practice from the ancient Egyptian nobility as a form of imitation.
The practice continues in America today because of jewry and a thriving cosmetics market for foreskins
Circumcision has no medical justification whatever
>>473242
You're degenerates.
>>473317
The foreskin may work pretty well at keeping the dirt away from your dickhead when you're a naked ape with no clothes, but all it does is keep dirt and dead skin trapped when you have clothes, which keeps the dirt away far better.
It's advantageous in the same way sickle cell is.
All something has to do to be evolutionary favorable is to get that organism to breeding age.
It started in MENA as a safety thing; sand and other shit would get in the foreskin and cause all sorts of issues, but it spread beyond those regions for religious reasons, and later as an anti-masturbation measure.
>>473344
Yes, but the creatinous goo that's produced under the foreskin that we call smegma kills undesirable bacteria, the same way a woman's vaginal goo does.
Do you honestly think that it's a fucking coincidence that every single mammal has a penis with a foreskin? I certainly don't, and it's funny how we don't think it's somehow necessary to circumcise our fucking dogs, but some of us thinks it's perfectly natural behavior when it comes to humans.
It's merely a cultural and religious practice, that belongs in the bronze age from whence it came.
>>473391
Humans didn't evolve to live in the middle east.
Who knows what living in Israel as a caveman is like with a foreskin.
Honestly I don't see the big deal. The only people who seem to care are uncircumcised guys, and why should they give a shit?
>>473403
I wouldn't see a big deal with either, if it was entirely up to the person in question when he was an adult, and men who are adults can choose to do things to their body as much as they like.
But since it is done to small children who are very recently born, I think it is a social question, and a question for everyone who is in society, and not just up to the mother and father.
>>473403
Because fellow men are getting their dicks cut off and they don't even seem to care.
The recent revival in history is because of Kellogg.
Yes, the guy the cereal is named after. He was a religious nut even by nutball standards who was obsessed with stopping masturbation, and well circumcision dulls the head of the penis and thus lessens sexual pleasure, so he promoted it under "health" reasons. It caught on like wildfire.
>>473429
It's fine. I'd rather be cut and I'd rather not be an adult when it happened.
>>473391
>Yes, but the creatinous goo that's produced under the foreskin that we call smegma kills undesirable bacteria, the same way a woman's vaginal goo does.
aids and other stds quite literally spreads through these various fluids your describing baka, it may protect from some microbes but clearly enables others adapted to spread through sexual contact. pls
>>473449
It doesn't matter what "you'd rather".
It is a social question, and should be a matter of law.
It shouldn't be legal for doctors to cut the genitals of babies.
>>473467
>aids and other stds quite literally spreads through these various fluids your describing baka, it may protect from some microbes but clearly enables others adapted to spread through sexual contact. pls
Yes, but apparently you do not understand what the concept of washing yourself down there means.
Whenever someone like you comes at me with this criticism, I always wonder if you even know what hygiene is.
>>473056
Me too. Happened when I was five.
>>472642
Asian or latino? I can't tell. The face says the former, but the tits and hips says the latter.
>>473467
Anything that would be transmitted through smegma would easily be transmitted through semen.
So, either wear a condom or don't. Doesn't really make much of a difference.
It's not fine. I never asked for this.
I shouldn't have a mass of scar tissue where a part of me was.
>>472642
>tfw you see someone you know on 2x2kun OP image
>>473472
It should in the case of phimosis, but I get you, senpai.
But the truth of the matter is that most cut dudes are totally fine with being cut. It's only you uncut guys who get totally disgusted by it.
It's like that neck stretching shit, it seems barbaric from the outside, but nobody cares.
>>473506
>But the truth of the matter is that most cut dudes are totally fine with being cut. It's only you uncut guys who get totally disgusted by it.
But this isn't true at all, and you should stop thinking it is. Many people are pissed that they were circumcised and it's becoming more and more true every day; there was even a courtcase not long ago were a mother didn't wanted her child circumcised but the father did, and the court ruled in his favor, which is a retarded precedent.
Maybe you should stop projecting the fact that you are comfortable with it upon all the potential millions of men who aren't.
>>473514
Meh, I really don't care either way. It's fine.
If it's illegalized, it won't affect me. It that makes you happy, it's okay.
>>473534
Yes, it would make me happy that society stopped mutilating children. It would mean we turned into slightly better people.
But your condescension is really marked in the way you write now, so I'm done discussing with you.
You have a nice day now.
>>473534
I can't explain to you what it's like to be made unwhole before you even remember what it was like to feel otherwise.
The fact that cut guys are okay with it is the worst part. It's the punchline to the sick joke.
I can't make you care about something that doesn't affect you. But, in rare moments, I've reactivated some of the nerves that have been torn from the body of the child that I was.
In those moments, I began to understand just how much pain I've been in all this time. It's just ... that part of me has been so deadened I couldn't even feel it.
I don't expect you to understand. I don't ask you to care. Hell, I don't even expect you to believe me.
But this is real. This matters.
>>473075
Yeah thats what I meant. I believe it was one of the Christian groups in US that pushed it. I'd guess it to be a southerner but the social cohesion regarding government parties back then was probably stronger than it is now. By that I mean, the parties back then weren't polarized as today.
>>473514
>>473506
>>473502
>>473498
>>473497
>>473483
>>473481
>>473472
>>473467
>>473449
>>473439
>>473431
>>473429
>>473403
>>473391
>>473390
>>473344
>>473317
>>473314
>>473295
>>473311
>>473291
>>473242
>>473227
>>473211
>>473126
>>473151
>>473092
>>473075
>>473068
>>473068
>>473066
>>473063
>>473056
>>473037
>>472674
>>472670
>>472663
Circumcision comes from Africa, even the Hebrew Bible speaks of the African wife of Moses who circumcised her son to stop an angel from killing Moses.
Herodotus speaks of a likely African origin of circumcision, ancient Egyptian reliefs display it, circumcision of the foreskin and clitoris which still exists in Africa was formed in Egypt and surrounding areas.
>>473596
Yeah that's nice, but again, asian or latino?
>>473552
>>But your condescension is really marked in the way you write now
And then you proceed to do the same thing?
What ever became of the high road?
>>473584
Yeah, okay, you're way too upset by this. you shouldn't circumcise babies, but you're making too big a deal of it.
It's a little skin off your dick, it's not your arm.
>>473602
Why not a mix?
>>473596
>Believing a word written by Hackodotus
>>473607
It's the forcible removal of a number of nerves from the most sensitive part of my entire body.
Do you know what it's like to become so dulled that you don't even feel the constant dull ache anymore?
It's there. It's always there. Sometimes, I remember.
>>473291
Because Circumcision isn't a Christian practice, it's a Jewish one.
The Catholics didn't circumcise because the Romans didn't, and very few other gentiles did either.
It was Paul who encouraged the Gentiles to skip straight into Christendom instead of Judaism.
It was actually a point of contention between him and the Christians who clung more closely to Judaism, like James and Peter.
>>473584
>I've reactivated some of the nerves that have been torn from the body of the child that I was.
lol
Circumcision occurred in all parts of the world historically, even the Americas. It became institutionalized through religion (in the case of the Jews and ancient Egyptians), or through pseudo-science (in the case of Americas) where they thought chopping off dick skin would be a great way to stop all the diseases associated with masturbating...like epilepsy. Top kek America.
>>473596
Abraham did it before Moshe's time
>>473063
>Except it's literally a Jewish practice that signified a covenant with God.
Except that has literally nothing to do with why it was widely adopted in the USA. They were trying to keep you from jerkin' it.
>cutfags need lube to masturbate
kek
>>473754
What? Who told you that?
Ancient people weren't stupid. People who ancient cultures looked to for medical advice probably started cutting off the foreskin as a treatment for phimosis, ballooning foreskin, and the 100+ other complications that foreskin can present with. After all, a pretty natural response to "I'm having problem with a small portion of my skin" is cutting it off. A tribe (or tribes) of people (probably in Africa) took notice that the practice was also beneficial in other ways (e.g., highly reduced rate of UTI) and started performing circumcision customarily as a prophylactic, much like early- and mid-20th Century surgeons would remove the appendix when performing other abdominal surgeries.
The procedure got more ritualized over time, and codified into their ancestors laws.
Because American pediatricians are only educated in propaganda
>>473754
What?
>>473596
WE WUZ CIRCUMCISED N SHEIT
>>472642
While the first Circumcisions were done by the jewish, muslim, and some african tribes. Modern Circumcision was started in the 19 century by Dr. Kellogg (yes the guy that invented cornflakes) under a belief that it would keep young men from masturbateing out of Puritan nonsense belief.
>>474281
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
>>473391
Uncut unhygienic manlet faggot detected.
>>472642
it was a custom among the tribes of ancient israel
for some reason we continue to observe it today. it's really fucking primitive
>>473552
>so I'm done discussing with you.
wew, the sjw is finally gone
I know that people love to troll about this shit and call us circumcised people idiots etc., but does anyone else genuinely wish he was never cut? I don't need to use lotion to jack off but I had a bit of a botched circumcision and hate how my dick looks.
I think NSFW pics aren't allowed to be uploaded here so here's a link to it: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Circumcised_Penis.JPG
Anyone else got this?
It's still legal in the USA today because the sex lube industry lobby the government to keep it going
>>475368
How can we call someone who was mutilated as a fucking baby an idiot? Unless you defend such barbarism you are nothing but a victim, it's in the hands of the current generations to break this cycle of horror.
>>475379
I wasn't referring to myself or anyone in this thread, but the older people who are cut and simply decide to have their children be cut as well. See, I know that circumcision shouldn't be a thing even though I don't really care that much about it either, but my parents forced me to get cut when I was like 7-8 and I fucking hate them for that. I really hope this foreskin restoration shit works at least a little bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCSWbTv3hng
It's collegehumor but it's all facts, it seems.
>>475375
That's a funny narrative you're trying to spin. In reality, when a US city tries to vote on circumcision, it is always blocked by the Jewish community.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/san-francisco-circumcision-ban-striken/story?id=14179024
>Circumcision, performed on 8-day-old males, is an important ritual in the Jewish -- and Muslim -- faiths. Marc Stern, associate general counsel for legal advocacy at the American Jewish Committee, said the Jewish community was "clearly appalled" by the proposed ban.
>>475420
Ridiculous. I can understand that there might be a bit of an issue since Freedom of religion would allow them to do this shit, but at the same time freedom to have an individual choose if they want to go through something should be bigger. This isn't like vaccination where a child has no saying in the matter, but fucking senseless mutilation.
>>472642
The Jews wanted to make themselves distinct from other groups and thought that circumcision was enough of a irritant to deter others from posing as God's chosen people. It's just like how the creation of the Old Testament shows a nascent nationalism among ancient Jews which they used to forge a distinct identity.
>>472670
>In an age before modern hygienic or safe sexual practices, circumcision went a long way to prevent infections of all sorts. It was mostly a practical measure that was then written and into a few religious law codes.
Circumcision outside of a clean, developed setting has a high risk of complications including sepsis, gangrene, and emasculation or death in and of itself.
http://ulwaluko.co.za/
Circumcision began as a blood sacrifice ritual, not a measure of "cleanliness". The foreskin is the primary erogenous tissue, not just a covering for the glans. It's not "hygienic" to amputate the foreskin any more than it's hygienic to amputate the labia.
>>475368
>I know that people love to troll about this shit and call us circumcised people idiots etc., but does anyone else genuinely wish he was never cut?
I wish I had never been subjected to male genital mutilation.
>>473056
>Well my foreskin was too tight so i had to be cut
I fapped my way out of it
>tfw you are a cutfag but your circumcision wasn't botched at all
I honestly couldn't care less about circumcision or not, as long as it doesn't become the norm. What matters is that there should be a standard, universal procedure for it, because many men see their whole life being fucked up because a stupid ass surgeon couldn't do it right. I really dodged a bullet but many people took it straight into the face.
>>475909
There is no way for there to be a "standard" identical outcome from circumcision, because people heal differently, plus it's normally done in childhood so there is no way for the doctor (or mohel or imam or what have you) to know how much the child's penis will grow. He can only estimate--meaning that unless he only removes a tiny amount of skin, he could end up causing the man to have extremely tight, stretched skin upon erection.
It's worth noting, too, that all conventional male circumcisions destroy the ridged band, which is primary erogenous tissue and one of the most sensual parts of a man's body.
Even if a circumcision wasn't botched, it was still destructive.
>>475977
I should also add that the requirements of circumcision in Judaism are codified in the Talmud. Some circumcision styles performed by other cultures may not meet the Talmudic standard, even if they (theoretically) were to be performed by a mohel.
>>475977
My surgeon specifically told me he left flesh so that it wouldn't become too tight when I'd grow up, and if it bothered me as an adult I could get it removed.
Sex is amazing and I can't imagine how it could get better so I don't think it's such a big loss, although I'm purely talking from subjective experience.
>The riddle of the sands: circumcision, history, and myth.
>Although many nineteenth century misconceptions about the foreskin have been dispelled since Douglas Gairdner showed that infantile phimosis was not a congenital defect, other old ideas have proved more persistent. Among the most ubiquitous are the proposition that ritual or religious circumcision arose as a hygiene or sanitary measure; and the related idea that allied troops serving in the Middle East during the Second World War were subject to such severe epidemics of balanitis that mass circumcision was necessary. Both these claims are medical urban myths which should be firmly laid to rest.
>One of the strangest arguments offered for male circumcision is that amputation of the foreskin protects the penis, and more especially the glans, from irritation by sand. This idea is certainly counter-intuitive. Common sense suggests quite the opposite scenario: that the foreskin guards the penis, particularly the glans and the vulnerable urinary opening, from any such irritation by shielding them from dust, sand and other forms of dirt. This function seems all the more likely in boys before puberty, when the foreskin is usually long, tight and less frequently retracted. Yet the claim appears regularly in serious medical journals, both as an explanation for the ancient origin of ritual circumcision in tribal societies, and as a medical justification for its performance in the twentieth century.
Full article: http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=30
>>473596
Cool, but OP asked why not where
>>476068
I know and Afghani who when he got his ritual circumcision the guy who did it left just enough foreskin that the underside was covered.
>>476111
>that the foreskin guards the penis, particularly the glans and the vulnerable urinary opening, from any such irritation by shielding them from dust, sand and other forms of dirt.
They still wear pants or some cloth to cover. In Papua New Guinea they have penis guards.
>>472642
christians and muslims. but Foreskin Restoration has been around just as long because people even back then realised how stupid circumcision is
>>473848
there are plenty of other cures for phimosis, and the only way you can get those complications is if you, in addition to having dicklet disease, also have brainlet disease, and therefore should die
>>478535
you have no idea how a naturally intact penis works, do you squidward?
https://davidlouis77.wordpress.com/2010/05/08/adult-circumcision-my-experience-2-years-on/
My summary is as follows:
It’s a terrible thing to do to yourself! In my case, the dermis has thickened to such a degree that I feel very little in the end of my penis. Sexually, I compare it to worse than any sex I can remember with a condom on when uncircumcised. That is, I would prefer to have had sex with an natural penis with a condom on then with the circumcised penis I have now.
If you want to get some idea of what a post circumcised penis feels like then pull your foreskin back, put a condom on, jump under a really hot shower. Can you tolerate the hot water from the shower stream landing directly on your gland of your penis. If not, add another condom (2 condom layers) or more layers, until you can handle it. Once you can handle it, that’s the sensitivity, which you will experience, post circ. Now have sex with that many condom’s on and record your subjective sense of sensitivity loss.
I’m not sure how to relay the experience onto a female. Perhaps, imagine the same, open your labia major to the hot water of a shower stream, (the hottest you can comfortably stand under) and think about how painful that is. You may not be able to tolerate it at all, it being fair too sensitive to direct contact of hot water. Then try putting some layers of gladwrap over your vulva until you no longer feel the pain of the water. Then touch around yourself with that gladwrap there, and assume that is the best sexual touch you will ever have. That is sensitivity post circumcision.
>>472674
Except it's usually performed on infants who don't consent to the practice and also causes a permanent loss of sensation in the genitals.
>>472642
People thought sme gma was gross /thread
If an unsanitary penis was such a big deal then why didn't everyone shave their heads? Head lice was far more prevalent and far more of a health issue.
>>473534
How do you feel about female circumcision?
>>475353
>wants people to stop mutilating their children
>sjw
Fuck you.
>>478660
>Then try putting some layers of gladwrap over your vulva
that took a turn
>>478921
>consent
nice liberal meme. nobody an earth knows what to consent means.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/1VadX9l.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>479342
consent [kuh n-sent] verb (used without object)
1. to permit, approve, or agree; comply or yield (often followed by to or an infinitive): He consented to the proposal. We asked her permission, and she consented.
I wondered if it was a combination of two things that became culturally self preserving
A: remove an erogenous part of the body means you are altering the conditions of intercourse later on
B: creating a preference in society 'ew he's not even circumcised' causes preservation.
I don't think there was one simple scientific reason it was conducted in the first place any more than piercings, tattoos or walking on fire. It's just a lot more personal and potentially passes itself down father after father.
>>479342
>nobody an earth knows what to consent means
americans.jpg
>>479640
>I don't think there was one simple scientific reason
indeed there wasn't. Wiki lists the following (a.o.):
a religious sacrifice,
a rite of passage marking a boy's entrance into adulthood,
a form of sympathetic magic to ensure virility or fertility,
a means of reducing sexual pleasure,
an aid to hygiene where regular bathing was impractical,
a means of marking those of higher social status,
a means of humiliating enemies and slaves by symbolic castration,
a means of differentiating a circumcising group from their non-circumcising neighbors,
a means of discouraging masturbation or other socially proscribed sexual behaviors,
a means of removing "excess" pleasure,
a means of increasing a man's attractiveness to women,
a demonstration of one's ability to endure pain, or as a male counterpart to menstruation or the breaking of the hymen, or to copy the rare natural occurrence of a missing foreskin of an important leader,
a way to repel demonesses,
and as a display of disgust of the smegma produced by the foreskin.
(.../wiki/History_of_male_circumcision)
>>478921
Consent is only a very recent concept throughout most of history nobody gave a fuck what you think.
>>480021
>history nobody gave a fuck what you think.
Well, that's the point innit?
Jews
Specifically when Abraham jewed his son
>>473439
>and thus lessens sexual pleasure
How do they conclude/measure this or is it a literal 'less nerve endings = less pleasure' idea?
>>473596
Midian isn't in Africa you dumb shit.
>>473596
>quotes every post in the thread
Why are you such a faggot
>>480363
It's not just the number/quantity of nerve endings cut off, but also the ~type~ of nerve endings that innervate the tissues removed by circumcision.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgoTRMKrJo4
>>472642
I CAN'T FUCKING BELIEVE NO ONE ASKED FOR SAUCE
