Could this ideology ever stand for more than 100 years in a single place?
What is the best Communist success story?
My perfectly infallible brand of communism has never been tried before.
China hasn't imploded yet, which is more than what can be said to many others. That counts, right?
>>454656
It also isn't communist
>What is the best Communist success story?
Kerala, in India and Bologna in Italy.
It turns out that when communists are in charge of regional governments, they aren't so bad.
yes communism as an ideology has existed for more than 100 years you absolute fucking retard
>>454818
I know that you fucking virgin
I even clarified by asking if it lasted more than 100 years
>IN A SINGLE PLACE
Earth doesn't count either
>>454863
yes communism as an ideology has existed in germany for more than 100 years
>>454685
Were they following marxist thinking? Was there common ownership of the means of production? If not, it wasn't communism.
>>454936
>communism has to be marxist
no
>Was there common ownership of the means of production? If not, it wasn't communism.
you dident ask if it hade been implemented for over a hundred years you only asked if it hade existed in a single place for more then a hundred years
next time you start a thread be clearer in the OP
................................< everything under this line will most likely be bait or the rigth and left trying to out shitpost eachother
Communal farms (kibutzim) exist in Israel for the last 68 years. More 32 and it's some sort of Communist ideals that worked
>>454671
>it also isn't communist
>le burger meme
name one communist country that was really communist. you can't, because for a burger nothing that works can be communist.
>What is the best Communist success story?
Yugoslavia, but ironically Yugoslavia had some degree of private business and ran the country on loans from the west.
>>454982
Not him, but China is more capitalist than USA, by a mile.
Communism is utopian and so self-defeating. Even the most well indoctrinated fanatics will start to lose faith if it has been around for decades without the utopia appearing, you can stoke the fires with victories and progress but if someone like Reagan keeps cockblocking you then it will finally disintegrate.
In China it became a meme.
North Korea went full 1984.
Cuba is trying to promote cooperatives and the like but it won't turn into communism.
Most of Europe is communist by Marx's definition.
>>454982
China certainly isn't working on the plan to led a global worker revolution right now
>>455007
Nice bait.
>Marx explicitly said peasant agricultural societies lack "class consciousness" to rise up and the revolution will happen in the industrialized western countries
>literally the only places where communists took power by a revolution were peasant shitholes while no industrialist society gave a fuck
Marx a shit.
>>455045
Don't you know taxes, government regulation, and welfare are communism?
>>455081
>mfw the bolsheviks didnt listen to me and the ussr was a disaster
>>455081
this so much
Marx also sympathized with the US invation of Mexico because he considered Mexico a feudal society.
>>455119
He also supported the free-market because that would hasten the decline of traditional political and economical structures.
Were he alive today, he would be a neoliberal. That's why I think that Milton Friedman was a Marxist, he did what actually Marx wanted to be done.
>>455107
Why didn't the workers seize the means of production in the US, Britain, France etc? Marx predicted they would.
I honestly think he was too engulfed by the societal status quo of his time and couldn't envision shit like the IT and service sector booming like they did in the past 30 years.
And that's all fine, he was simply mistaken and now we know better. But why do marxists still cling to his theories is beyond me.
>>455138
Countries like the USSR became the best capitalist propaganda. People began to think that communism was inherently authoritarian and dismissed it.
>>454607
Communism as an ideology is only barely over 100 years old, what do you expect? Capitalism needed a couple hundred to get going, and feudalism took much longer to develop.
>What is the best Communist success story?
Communism as a state of relations has never even been claimed to have existed. That said, there is no "best" success story for revolutionary socialism, that's a simple idea. The organization of the working class into a political entity in the West, saving capitalism from itself by instituting reforms to appease the masses, is obviously of great value, and the revolutionary movements that have taken place all over the world, whether they ultimately failed (eg: USSR) or have stagnated (eg: Cuba) are also of great historical importance. Unless you're some kind of illiberal and think people shouldn't govern themselves and it's right for oligarchs to rule over the masses, I guess.
>>455170
You know what's funny? That right after the October revolution, marxists all over the world were applauding and praising it.
It wasn't until the USSR turned out to be a failure when the marxists started spinning their own earlier statements into HURR DURR IT WASN'T REAL SOCIALISM.
>>455188
I'm not even a marxist, but what it became definitely wasn't communism.
>>455237
That's only logically expected, communism can't happen, possibly ever.
>communist
>success
pick one
>>455188
>marxists all over the world were applauding and praising it
That's just not true. Part of the Russian Revolution was fighting non-Bolshevik socialists.
>>455245
You're painting with such a broad brush.
HURR DURR LENINISM DOESN'T WORK SO MARXISM IS STUPID.
>>454982
>he thinks only american can believe china isn't communist
it's like you dont even know what capitalism is
>>455252
Social democrats mind you, not marxists. Marx himself hated social democrats, considered them to be petite bourgeouis hindrance and wanted them to be purged after the eventual revolution, so Lenin was clearly just following Marx in that case.
>>455270
No, democratic socialists.
>>455286
Same thang.
>>454656
China is far from Communist, it's access to free markets...
>>454970
I read a book on kibbutzim. What a fucking mess. Constant arguing and bickering and just taking everything to seriously.
Question for commies.
What is true communism?
and no right-wingers baiting answers. I want a genuine answer from genuine commies.
>>455289
Except it isn't. Bernie Sander is a social democrat. Someone who wants the workers to control the means of production in a democratic society is a democratic socialist.
>>454958
I'm not OP. And yes, communism has to come from marxist thinking. Otherwise, it would just be a tribal society.
>>455301
You are right. Sanders calls himself a democratic socialist, though.
>>454982
What in the fuck. In one thread some lefty says no communist country has existed, and that Americans call all leftism "communist". Now here some lefty says China actually is communist, and that Americans won't call anything communist.
>>455313
Basically le American boogeyman and the fact commies cannot discuss anything without dishing ad hominems.
Signed, a non-American.
China is a capitalist country with an authoritarian government. About as far from communism as you can get.
>>455324
People in the US really do believe that high tax rates and welfare is the same thing as socialism/communism. Bernie Sanders is a self-proclaimed "democratic socialist" and his proposals have nothing to do with the workers controlling the means of production, they're just higher taxes and welfare programs.
>>455330
This. China is economically more similar to fucking Singapore than it is to say, the USSR.
>>455342
He is still full of shit.
>>454607
When they single handedly destroyed everything that the Anarchists and Socialists worked towards in Revolutionary Catalonia see also Ukrainian Free State. Seriously, as an Anarchist I would rather work with a Capitalist than a fucking Commie scumbag, traitorous pigs
>>455449
>revolutionary Catalonia
That place was such a disorderly shithole I have no idea how can anyone hold it up as a positive example.
>>455449
>as an anarchist
You might as well live in the jungle, then.
>>455449
anarcho-communism exists tho
i think you're angry at leninism, not communism
>>455449
Me again, side story here but was at a nightclub a few weeks ago and I see a man outfitted in USSR regalia so, due to my interest in History I attempt to talk to said fuckwit. Little did I know that he is a genuine Communist, like full on member of the local Communist party and unironically has Lenin badges and Lenin is the background of his phone. We talk politics and he talks about how the state is necessary in implementing the correct status quo and then slowly dismantling itself when the goal has been reached, I then pointed out how this creates a bureaucratic class similar to the old middle class and we have a small argument about philosophy. After ending the discourse as politely as possible he then turns to me "We can work together during the Revolution but afterwards you will be next". This fat, greedy, autistic neckbeard is trying to tell me that somehow, him and the three buddies down at the local pub in the same Communist party will topple the system without even making a coherent argument.
I fucking hate that cunt
>>455457
Even though most Historians agree that, albeit for the short time it existed, it worked rather well. Read Homage to Catalonia by Orwell, he was not an anarchist but saw the merits of their system
>>455489
I've read it. He explicitly described it as a disorderly shithole. The only literature that portrays that shithole in a positive light are ideological pieces posted on anarchist websites.
>>455504
"I had dropped more or less by chance into the only community of any size in Western Europe where political consciousness and disbelief in capitalism were more normal than their opposites. Up here in Aragón one was among tens of thousands of people, mainly though not entirely of working-class origin, all living at the same level and mingling on terms of equality. In theory it was perfect equality, and even in practice it was not far from it. There is a sense in which it would be true to say that one was experiencing a foretaste of Socialism, by which I mean that the prevailing mental atmosphere was that of Socialism. Many of the normal motives of civilised life– snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.– had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master."
Such a disorderly shithole
>>455504
I think you missed some parts of it.
"I had dropped more or less by chance into the only community of any size in Western Europe where political consciousness and disbelief in capitalism were more normal than their opposites. Up here in Aragon one was among tens of thousands of people, mainly though not entirely of working-class origin, all living at the same level and mingling on terms of equality. In theory it was perfect equality, and even in practice it was not far from it. There is a sense in which it would be true to say that one was experiencing a foretaste of Socialism, by which I mean that the prevailing mental atmosphere was that of Socialism. Many of the normal motives of civilized life—snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.—had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master."
>>455471
This. Hell, even Marx himself is useful for anarchists, but as soon as you get into Marxism-Leninism and the like you might as well not even be a socialist.
>>455508
Read about the military training he received and how "organized" the whole place was, it's right there in the beginning.
>>454607
opet ovo jebiga...
the real problem was never ideology, even tho ideology was a cause of many fuckups, the real problem was endemic inefficiency of the political system, which hasnt changed with democracy, on the contrary, criminal incompetence and corruption has multiplyed a hundred fold
its just that once you turn capitalist the efficiency of the political system becomes irrelevant, since capitalism cant actualy colapse as a system, the way you cant kill a thing undead
but realy if you look at most ex-communist countries it didnt help much that they turned capitalist and democratic, considering how things developed from 1989 onwards it would of been better for most of them if they stayed communist
if you ask people today most cant realy tell you what the problem was, few people will say communism was a problem, the secret services maybe, domination from moscow or belgrade, scarcity of this or that, the berlin wall falling, but not a lot of people will say shit went down cauze people didnt like having a job, a apartment, payed helthcare and a free education
in fact the average dude will tell you we all took a large bite of shit in the 90is
>>455514
Military disorganization is an issue for lots of armies regardless of their ideological stance, for a decentralized militia, I would say they did pretty fucking good. But for the general populace there was rules and organisation, just not a real heirachy. As much as you might want to ignore the facts and evidence shown by multiple sources that does not make it so.
>>455541
Actually no, that military was disorganized specifically because it tried to operate on an egalitarian basis.
>>455547
and others are specifically due to difficulty in getting orders to their men thanks to communication issues, and even more are due to their inability to get supplies to the front along with said orders. All armies suffer from some problems with organisation
>>455523
jbg buraz
>>455299
>I read a book on kibbutzim. What a fucking mess. Constant arguing and bickering and just taking everything to seriously.
all the american jews i knew that went to israel as teens to work on kibbutz said it was great. maybe its different if you just live there permanently?
>>455134
You're taking a single remark out of context and attributing an entire personality to it. Have any of you retards even read Capital?
>>455596
the book I read was written in the 80's. Kibbutzim have been through reforms and I think they are disappearing. Now, they are pretty much indoctrination summer camps to get young non-Israeli Jews to support Israel from abroad or to immigrate.
Can any commies post what their definition of real communism is?
>>455574
>inb4 večina postera tu su ameri i eufagovi koji nemaju pojma o čem pričaju kad pričaju o ovom
>>454982
Please rid the world of your stupidity and commit suicide.
t. Chinese guy born and raised in mainland 'commie' China.
>>455791
>implying China was ever truly Communist
You're one dumb chink. A completely communist society is impossible, it's an unattainable utopia.
>>455812
>>implying China was ever truly Communist
While it was never communist, it was in early socialist development at some point
>China calls itself communist and has a red flag, so they MUST BE communists
>>455299
Communism is a classless, stateless, moneyless society.
Once labor is fully automated and we have true abundance without anyone having to put in any work we'll establish a basic income and everyone will become equal in status as a result of everyone being equally useless in modern society. Optimistically speaking.
