Just when did it all go so wrong?
>>453823
/pol/ will listen to your islam hate, just go there.
>British Empire
They're the reason India is fucked up
They're the reason Africa is currently facing internal strife
They're the reason the sick man of Europe died
>without taking back Constantinople
>1453 never forget
Depends on who you ask. A lot of the modern issues have to do with the fallout of the Ottoman collapse and mandate system after World War 1, but there are sectarian and ethnic issues that have been around longer (though many were exacerbated by the aforementioned transition.) The region has the misfortune of being very central to the old world, geographically, strategically, and culturally, in a way that lent it to constant upheaval, intervention, conflict and changing boundaries.
The British fucked everything up by getting rid of the Ottomans.
629
/thread
>>453829
Literally jumping at shadows: the post
>>453823
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_Khwarezmia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_the_Levant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_and_dissolution_of_the_Ottoman_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes–Picot_Agreement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Mandate_for_Syria_and_the_Lebanon#States_created_during_the_French_Mandate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
etc
>>453835
India would exist without the british
The first half of the 20th century is the root of the most major problems.
>increased Zionist colonization and the eventual proclamation of the Jewish state of Israel (caused the Palestine conflict)
>the expansion of the Wahhabi state of the house of Saud (caused the modern jihadi movement)
>the collapse of the Ottoman empire and subsequent betrayal of the Arabs by the British following World War I (caused the division of arabs we see today)
>the despotism of the Shah (caused the religious revival in Iran and subsequently the despotism of the Ayatollahs)
>>454519
>despotism of the Shah
You know, I always hear about how the Shah was a despot but no one ever brought up any evidence that proves he was worse than any leader who ruled before or after him in the region.
>>453823
Explosion of the bar ma kids in 900
>>454540
He wasn't a radical tyrant, but just because he was equal to other bad leaders doesn't make him good
The Shah had SAVAK (secret police) running around killing, arresting, and torturing people for speaking bad about him
He pandered to the West and spent exuberantly on luxuries and the military while the Iranian economy went downhill
There were several issues going on in Iran coming up to the revolution, Khomeini happened to be the guy to galvanize it into a revolution while pandering to people's faith/nationalism
>>453823
Poor post colonial border assignments led to massive sectarian and ethnic violence that was exacerbated by western and soviet intervention.
I do wonder what would happen if the middle east had been properly split along ethnic borders (along with a bit o Indian style relocation). Would it be relatively peaceful or would it evolve into actual war between nation states?
>>453823
When Israel destroyed the Millet system.
That's when it all went wrong.
.>Inb4 Eternal Anglos stand up for "their master"
It's true
>>453823
read A Peace to End All Peace
>>453829
What? Dude did you really get triggered over something like this. Hes just asking what went wrong in the Middle East, you don't have to racist to realize that something is wrong.
Failures of various arab nationalist movements
It comes from the inefficient control of the Ottoman empire
>>454495
Assuming you meant "wouldn't", that'd actually be a good thing.
India would work better as a bunch of smaller nation-states. Instead it's a massive clusterfuck of ethnicities, languages, and religions.
>>453823
Islam and Kurds and America.
>>454540
Years and years of corrupted despot shahs caused monarchy as a whole to lose prestige among the iranians. It says a lot that the other big group against the shah apart from the mullahs were the communists. The shah had to go precisely because he was like a "leader who ruled before him" with the only important difference being he (and his father) antagonized those who supported despotism during the previous century.
That's why people often says it all goes to shit with the coup to give him absolute power, the rest can be debated, but there would've been no problem for him staying in Iran had he stayed a figurehead ruler that cannot awake hate.
>>454866
India should've been partitioned a bit differently, but fragmenting it would've been terrible. The Indians would be divided and powerless against the much more powerful states (Pakistan & China) around them.
expecting better
>all these tribes that hate each other would just stop if X was done
>>453823
Islam, and more specifically Arabic society, promotes obscurantism, ensuring nothing like the Enlightenment could never happen. Same thing with Chinese society. You know they didn't even know the Earth was round 'til the Jesuits showed up?
>>453829
autism
>>455274
Pakistan would be divided as well, and what is China going to do? Invade over the fucking Himalayas?
>>455338
why do they they coveted tibet?
Islam.
>>455311
arab people
>arabic Society
You how retarded that sound right
There is little agreement on the precise causes of the decline, but in addition to invasion by the Mongols and crusaders, and the destruction of libraries and madrasahs, there is evidence that political mismanagement and the stifling of ijtihad (independent reasoning) in the 12th century in favor of institutionalised taqleed (imitation) thinking played a part. There was considerable decline under the reign of al-Mutawakkil (r. 847–861).The caliph al-Mutawakkil enforced a more literal interpretation of the Qur'an and Hadith. Science and rationalism were dismissed in favor of revelation. Greek philosophy was condemned as anti-Islamic. This went on for some time and then, when you see it, boom, Sykes Pycott.
>>453823
Just when was it right?
Muhammed was born
>>453823
Akkadians
Expansion of radical Wahabbist doctrine, the specific state version of Islam endorsed by Saudi Arabia. I'm not going to pretend that Islam was some ultra-special enlightened religion prior to the evolution of the modern Saudi state, but if was ethically on par with Christianity. The self-destructive madness we see in contemporary Islam is 100% a direct consequence of Wahab's take on the religion and proselytizing of it.
Theoretically, the Mideast could be "fixed" (i.e. on par economically with East Asia but without the violence) if the Saudi regime was deposed. It wouldn't be instant, but removing the snake's head would result in its death over the course of the next few decades.
[spoiler]But Saudi Arabia is propped up by the west while they're simultaneously responsible for the evolution of groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda. It's a clusterfuck. [/spoiler]
>>453846
Not him but OP obviously posted a loaded question here
>>453835
>eternal anglo
>>454519
good post
>>455311
>ensuring nothing like the Enlightenment could never happen
you realize it's the enligthenment that is responsible for europe and the west's decline?
biggest mistake of western civilization was the enlightenment
>>457195
>Expansion of radical Wahabbist doctrine,
Neither the Mongol Invasions, the Timurid rampage, the conquest by the Ottomans, the collaps of the Ottoman Empire, the creation of Israel, the Sykes-Picot Treaty, the arab losses of their wars with Israel, the fall of Persia, the Iran-Iraq War, the american invasions of the (secular) Iraq nor the Arab Spring had anything to do with Wahabism.
>yfw this man is the only hope
Revive Ottomans and problem will be fixed.
this guy converted to Islam
>>457511
buttblasted crusader detected
>>455520
>>453835
>hurr evil redcoats
Buttblasted murricunt detected
>>457521
you don't even know who the guy is or what I am talking about
Al-Ghazali
>>453823
4004 BC
>>457471
That's fucking retarded, what the fuck
There are alot of ethnic issues but honestly mongols
>>453823
>brit supporting wahabbists againts ottomans
>americans supporting islamists for a long time
12,000 years ago, or at least once civilization arose between the Tigris and the Euphrates. The monotheistic legacy of Abrahamic religions sealed the deal, by converting the world into its currently homogenized form.
>>457509
>>457509
go fuck yourself
>>456640
>Ywf empires are never created and the world is one peaceful mass of city states with universal free trade.
>>457556
Not that guy but I agree with his sentiment and it's the founder of the seljuk empire right?
>>457501
>being this wrong
But it had, the Mongol invasions shocked the islamic society to it's very core. In this setting the 'Sheik al-islam' Ibn Taymiyyah came up with ideas to overcome the mongol threat and return towards past glory. Salafi's and wahhabi's base their doctrine upon this very guy.
>>457586
>hur dur I read something about islam and they said al ghazali was evil
Al-Ghazali was a philosopher, with a philosophical opinion. He philosophically argued against some fields of philosophy and also in favour of other fields. It also isn't clear if he meant what he wrote, for he overruled his own words in later works. This guy is misunderstood by plebs in the west that haven't read what he wrote and only know the title of one of his books 'The Incoherence of Philosophers'. Funfact: The western medieval Philosophers learned a great deal about Ibn Sinna through this guy.
1948.
>>453823
1916
>>453835
Call it the Anglo-Jewish empire remember at it's height Benjamin Disraeli was Prime Minister
Oil
>>457586
Ghazali died in 1111 and Muslim world demolished 5 centuries after his death. How was he responsible?
>>458801
The fact that the entire middle East+friends couldn't take down a shitty colony filled with fucking Jews says something
It was fucked before Israel.
>>453843
opened this thread just to see that
>>454601
What? Dude did you really get triggered over something like this. Hes just telling him to ask /pol/, you don't have to idiot to realize that something is wrong.
>>461565
Kys
>>457195
what is the Christian equal to Wahhabism? Maybe Calvinism? Or hardcore evangelical Christianity?
>>463889
Pre-Reformation Catholicism
>>453835
Care to quantify the effects of British Empire in all of these situations?
>>453843
Again, can we control for Islamic adherence as a predictor of proxy variables that are commonly taken to indicate strife? We probably can, and we can probably figure out a proxy for how "Empire'd" each area was by the British too and see if that can predict "shit" (whatever proxies are chosen for that) today. Somebody should do this.
>>453855
Same with this. These are just-so stories and nobody is bothering to quantify anything.
>>454519
This post has all the ingredients needed to start untangling this. People should find
>Proxy variables that indicate "extent of being effected by Zionism"
>Proxy variables that indicate presence of Wahhabi Islam
>Proxy variables that indicate extent of British colonization
and then
>proxy variables for "shittiness"
And then do a multiple linear regression on all of these things to see which of the proposed effects has the largest effect on "being shit" and on precisely what aspect of "being shit".
In fact, I should do this and post it here after I'm done. Brb lol.
