What would have happened if Germany would have won WW1?
How would Europe look like after Germany's victory?
It would look like Europe
I wonder if there are any documents remaining from WWI Germany where its leaders laid out or proposed what they would do in case of a victory.
>>452483
This is exactly my question.
>>452483
Peter Hitchens discussed this;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNeDtZmpjU
>>452505
Too long, can you give the gist of it?
Argued with a friend about this just the other day, he claimed the Germans would just annex Belgium after the war. I think that sounds a bit ridiculous, they have nothing to gain from doing so.
>>452479
>What would have happened if Germany would have won WW1?
Only way thats ever happening is if their all in push on the western front using the troops moved from the east achieved some success, and France and England had government change or whatever, with the new one promising the people it will get peace.
>How would Europe look like after Germany's victory?
Austria would annex all of the Balkans, including their ally Bulgaria, into their bulk. Maybe call it Austro-Hungarian-Bulgarian empire or whatever. It would also get some land in Italy perhaps.
Germany itself may gain some land west, but not much. Belgium, for example. Some of France? It would expand greatly in the east, all the way to the Baltics. The Ottomans would maybe get Egypt back, and Libya.
Overall it would be an Austrian victory, not a German one.
>>452929
>Austro-Hungarian-Bulgarian empire
80% of people Slavs, yeah that would work just fine.
>>452938
Bulgaria was already ruled by an Austrian, Ferdinand Maximilian Karl Leopold Maria of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.
Austrians already considered transforming the country into a joint kingdom of Austria-Hungary-Serbia, they'd just add Bulgaria instead of Serbia, now that Serbia is divided between Austria and Bulgaria.
The Bulgarian government and intellectuals have always been pro-German, and thus pro-Austrian, they'd agree and promote it.
>>453005
>If that was true then Austria-Hungary would have been annexed by Germany (as it should have been).
And as it was, eventually. Its obvious to us today that the could, and maybe should have, but back in the day Austria was considered a power player. I am sure nobody in Germany even dreamed of annexing them.
Besides, I suggested they'd form a joint kingdom or whatever Austria and Hungary had, not total annexation. Like partnership in the Austrian Federation or whatever.
>>452520
eu = nazis
Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, United Baltic Duchy and maybe Finland established as countries economically and politically tied to the German Empire
Luxemburg outright annexed and maybe Belgium (and If not, it would also be politically and economically tied to the Germans)
Depending on how exactly the peace is, you'll see the German Mittelafrika plan being put into effect, with the French and maybe British African colonies being ceded to Germany
Austria-Hungary would annex Serbia, but would probably have to give them some self government, along with the other constituent peoples of the empire or risk shit imploding when it came time to renegotiate the terms of the union again.
>>452483
There are. I forget the exact details but I think it involved annexing Luxembourg, Belgium and a slice of northern France. And in the east annexing Poland and the Baltics. The map looks pretty accurate, except that I think they were planning on taking a slightly larger chunk of France in the north. I don't think they were planning on annexing Finland, though. And this wasn't just idle fantasising - this was a detailed plan for how to divide up the economic spoils of victory (industry, coal mines, etc, etc) put together by leading German industrialists in concert with the German leadership.
As for Austria, they were far more concerned with holding onto what they had then expansion. They'd probably have annexed Serbia proper out of necessity, but they'd have been more than happy to let Bulgaria take Kosovo and Macedonia. As for Montenegro and Albania, it would have depended on how vigorous the Austrian forces were feeling after fighting Serbia. They almost certainly wouldn't have tried to take any more territory from Italy.
>>453078
A-H had no interest in further annexations of lands filled to the brim with Slavs. The Hungarians were always wary of shifting the demographic balance to far out of their favor.
>>453078
>and maybe Finland established as countries economically and politically tied to the German Empire
We only got rid of our German king because the bloody krauts lost the war. We'd be pretty much a German puppet state if they won the Great War.
>>452479
If the September programme is anything to go by, it would be rather awful. An economical and political hegemony of Germany being fuelled by client states. (inb4 le EU)
>>453153
>I don't think they were planning on annexing Finland, though
at the end of civil war finland was already under von der golz's control and finland even appointed frederick charles of hessen as their king, but when WW ended, german troops had to leave finland and frederick refused the throne.
>>452479
If Germany won and got their way fully, it's likely that pic related would've happened which they supported to weaken Britain.
As German-sympathetic Irish Republic would have been very useful in keeping Britain down.
Germany could keep troops in Ireland ready to invade Britain (which is what the British were always afraid of and was their reason for occupying Ireland in the first place).
>>453850
Unlikely. I mean, it depends on just how badly the British lost but even is Germany smashed through all the armies on the continent they wouldn't have been able to get past the Royal Navy, and hence wouldn't have been in much of a position to dictate British policy in Ireland. Possibly that would have happened if Germany had used unrestricted submarine warfare and that managed to bring Britain to its knees, but Germany breaking through on the western front and forcing France to capitulate probably wouldn't have done much. Honestly, losing the war probably wouldn't have affected Britain much at all. If the Royal Navy remained undefeated all Germany would have been in a position to do would be to demand that Britain stay out of European affairs, and likely the only price for peace would have been the return of the German colonies seized at the start of the war.
>>452479
Sweden might of joined the German empire if they started winning. Because at the time Sweden where much more sympathetic to Germans.
>>452479
It depends on how Germany won.
Did they somehow pull off the Schifflen Plan and occupy Paris in 1914? That's going to be a softer peace than if they blew through the entente lines in the spring offensive, after several years of brutal fighting. That in turn is different from a negotiated peace in the winter of 1917.
I'll copypaste the Kaiserreich official canon, it's probably one of the most popular and well-known alt-history scenarios.
Postwar developments:
1919
>The Confédération Générale du Travail (CGT), led by anarcho-syndicalist Emile Pouget, declares a general strike in reaction to the bloody defeat of the French army during the German Great Offensive and the second mutiny. Its main aim was an immediate end to the war. After the fall of Paris the government of Georges Clemenceau was replaced by a Provisional Government under Aristide Briand.
>Jacobin radicals, inspired by their Russian brethren and Lenins theories about a revolutionary vanguard start a series of attacks on government officials and public buildings, ending achance of the CGT and Provisional Goverbnment reaching an agreement. An attempt of the government to use demobilized soldiers to restore order ends in many soldiers joining the revolutionaries. France in engulfed in a short but bloody war, ending in a victory for the revolutionaries. Emile Pouget starts with the difficult task of changring the French Republic into the Commune of France.
>The remains of the French establishment flee to Algiers, setting up a government-in-exile, led by Maréchal Foch.
>The White generals agree to coordinate their efforts with Kerensky’s provisional government to fight the Red Army at the Congress of Omsk. Trotsky decides to focus his efforts on defending Moscow, allowing the White armies to retake St. Petersburg.
>Baron Ungern von Sternberg and his ‘Wild division’ take the Mongolian capital of Urga, with Sternberg declaring himself Mongolia's supreme ruler.
>>455063
>1920
>The threat of becoming surrounded by syndicalist states, es well as the presence of Makhno’s Black Army in Eastern Ukraine makes Germany intervene in the Russian Civil War. General Wilhelm Groener is ordered to support the White generals in their fight. Groener manages to drive Makhno out of the Ukraine, but fails to rally the Cossacks in support of the Kerensky government. The Cossacks would soon form their own state, just as Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Alash Orda and Turkestan would secede. Georgia quickly fell to the so called Menshevist remnants in the Caucasus.
>Republican candidate Leonard Wood defeats his democratic opponent William McAdoo, replacing president Woodrow Wilson.
>Wood would become known for his strong crackdown on socialism and syndicalism alike and a policy of strict isolationism, jailing Eugene V. Debs, but was unable to prevent the Zapatista from gaining control in Mexico.
1921
>The combined forces of Marshall Denikin and Groeners expeditionary corps defeat the forces of Trotsky and Tukhachevsky at Tsaritsyn on the 21th of february after weeks of bitter street fighting. With the road to Moscow open, Baron Wrangel takes the city in september. Trotsky uses the confusion to flee the country, but the civil war is at an end.
1922
>after the Easter Uprising in 1916 and five years of war, a peace treaty is concluded between UK and Irish rebels that leads to the creation of a new Free Irish State on Jan. 1 1922. Negotiations with German ambassador Franz von Papen convinced Michael Collins to offer the crown of King of Ireland to Prince Joachim, but German delays and reluctance to let the Prince depart to Ireland led to the declaration of the Republic in October. Marshall Collins becomes the head of the Irish state. The whole affair was deeply embarrasing to the Ludendorff/Hindenburg junta and was quickly swept under the carpet.
>South Rhodesia joins South Africa, nervous of potential German expantionism in its region.
>>455066
1924
>President Wood gets reelected, defeating his democrat opponent Albert Smith.
>Admiral Kolchak attempts to coup the Russian government but fails to secure the vital support of Denikin and Wrangel. He quickly flees to Vladivostock, where the Japanese set him up as president of Transamur.
1925
>A coalminers strike in Wales quickly escalates into a general strike when the government threatens to send in the army. The strike was quickly followed by a mutiny of parts of the navy and ended with the king and the government fleeing to Canada. A coalition of syndicalists, Labour, Welsh and Scottish nationalists and suffragettes take over the government under the charismatic John McLean.
The fall of Britain itself lead to a massive landgrab by many of its longtime enemies. Gibraltar finally fell into Spanish hands once again, while Argentina quickly seazed the Falklands, Egypt gained sole authority over the Sudan and the Ottoman Empire regained control over Cyprus. The German Empire managed to secure most of the British African Empire as well as the strategic colonies of Malta, Suez, Aden, Ceylon, the Strait Colonies, Brunei and Sarawak.
>Australia and New Zealand seize the British part of New Guinea and Fiji. Later in the year both nations would form the Australasian Confederation for mutual protection.
>India, once the pearl in the British crown breaks down into three new states. The Princes of Kashmir and the Punjab unite with the remaints of the Raj to create British friendly Delhi while a revolt in Bengal leads to the establishment of a syndicalist state there. The Princes of the South form their own, independent Princely Federation. Birma becomes an independent kingdom once again.
>In Canada the senate is replaced by a House of Lords, members of the British aristocracy who fled to Canada.
>>455075
>Xu Shichang manages to become president of the divided Chinese Republic. In an effort to restore order, Xu asks the German Empire to help him restore order in China. In exchange he would accept the restoration of Pu Yi to the Chinese throne. The Guominjun accuses Xu of betraying the Republican principles of Sun Yat-Sen and declares war on him.
>In order to manage its many Imperial possesions in Africa,Germany creates the Freistaat Mittelafrika after the model of the British Raj. Field marshall Von Lettow-Vorbeck becomes its first Stadthalter.
1926
>Governor Hans von Seeckt of German Indochina is ordered to intervene in the civil war in support of Xu. Within six months Germany manages to defeat the Guominjun and secure most major centers of industry and population. The opponents of the government retreat to the remote west, Yunnan or Manchuria Pu Yi is restored as Emperor, but has to accept a coglomerate of German enterprises, known as the AOG (Algemeiner Ostasien GmbH) taking economic control of the industrial south. Hans von Seeckt would become its first governor-general. In order to safeguard the economic interests of other major powers all the port cities are united as the Legation Cities and are put under joint control.
>Japan intervenes too in support of Zhang Zuolin, but isn't willing to risk conflict with Germany. The Fengtian Republic is set up in Manchuria.
1927
>President Wood dies of a malignant brain tumor. His vice president Irvine Lenroot becomes the next president.
>The renegotiation of the Ausgleich between Austria and Hungary nearly leads to a splitup of the Dual Monarchy. Only German intervention prevents the split. The final outcome is a federalisation of the Empire, with Bohemia, Galicia-Lodomera, Croatia and Bosnia all gaining limited homerule.
>Revolts sweep through Guatemala, toppling the government. British Honduras quickly falls to revolution too, joining the new syndicalist state.
>>455079
1928
>Republican Herbert Hoover defeats New York governor Al Smith.
>The Central American revolt spreads to El Salvador. Guatemala and El Salvador merge to form Centroamerica
1929
>The inability of the Entente nations to pay off their enormous debts and Germanies heavy protectionism have hurt the American economy for years but in 1929 the New York stock exchange finally collapses, sending America into the Great Depression. The economic crisis remainslimited to the American continent, with the European economies now oriented on the Berlin stock exchange.
>The Iron Guard party coups the Romanian government, installing Corneliu Codreanu as the Conductare.
1930
>Grand Admiral Afred von Tirpitz dies on the 6th of march. He is replaced by Fieldmarshall Oskar von Hutier, the man finalizing the encirclement of Paris during the Weltkrieg. He was the most succesful and popular chancellor in German history behind Otto von Bismarck himself.
1931
>In a reaction to the growing threat of Centroamerica, Nicaragua and Costa Rica unite to form the United Provinces.
>>455087
1932
>Herbert Hoover narrowly defeats Franklin D. Roosevelt, mainly because the once Solid South voted for Gerald K. Smith, the candidate put forward by popular Louisiana governor Huey Long and his American First movement. The syndicalists, led by Alexander Berkman and John ‘Jack’ Reed manage to win the state of New York.
>In South Africa Barry Hertzog wins the elections and declares South Africa to be a republic. South Africa leaves the Entente.
1933
>Chancellor Von Hutier dies and is replaced by Franz von Papen.
>A series of border skirmishes between Paraguay and Bolivia leads to Argentina and Bolivia go to war over the alledged Bolivian attempts to annex Paraguay.
1934
>Argentina manages to drive the Bolivians out of the disputed Gran Chaco region. Brazil decides to intervene on Bolivia’s behals, sparking off the Great South American War. Small Uruguay is quickly overrun by Brazilian forces, having the misfortune to be in the way. The march towards the River Plate ended in trench warfare.
1935
>Argentinian troops, fresh from defeating Bolivia counterattack the Brazilian lines along the River Plate. The tired Brazilian forces break and Brazil quickly seeks terms. Paraguay and Uruguay join Argentina in the newly created Federation of La Plata.
>Franklin D. Roosevelt is assasinated on the 12th of april by a radical America Firster.
And finally, the map in 1936.
>>454164
>unrestricted submarine warfare
Was useless. Average tonnage sank per submarine per sortie increased by just 50 tons, a difference that's more of a statistical anomaly than anything else. What really caused the most damage was the far higher sortie rate and longer patrols of the U-boats after the unrestricted campaign was declared, but that was completely unsustainable.
Unrestricted U-boat warfare achieved nothing except pulling America into the war.
>>453005
>as it should have been
Consider suicide.
>>455232
give me one good reason germany shouldn't have annexed austria-hungary.
>>455262
>A lot of Austria's problems came from the germans having too much control over her military
The fuck are you talking about?
Thats literally the only thing that saved them in the war.
They would have been crushed without german military strategy.
>>452893
An annexed Belgium, if it were to happen, would happen out of spite rather than out of necessity.
>>455370
Depriving England those channel ports isn't just spite
>>455243
Give me one good reason why I shouldn't annex your mom's cunt.
>Micheal Collins is convinced in negotiations to offer the crown to a German delegate.
>trading one king ruling Ireland for another king from further away...
Sounds like a bunch of bullshit that wouldn't happen to meeeeeeeeeeee
>>455370
>>455480
According to Ring of Steel by Alexander Watson, German postwar goals seemed to be something along these lines
>Luxembourg and a strip of Belgium annexed
>remainder of Belgium becomes a German puppet
>French coast up to about Calais occupied
In the east was where the big changes were, however. The Germans planned to annex the Baltic states that they had conquered and turned into the Ober Ost colony.
>>452479
>Shandom of Persia
1936
>>455101
>Great south american war
> not including Chile invading the argentinian patagonia on alliance with Brazil
> Not including Peru invading Brazil for the lulz on alliance with argentina
> Not including USA allied with somebody to get the spoils.
> Not including border fights between Chile and Peru-Bolivia leading to a second war of the pacific with argentina on the side of peru.
> Not including Germany funding one of the sides of the conflict.
>>453850
>mfw Irish
>mfw Germans had only one job
JUST
>>457502
Too much HoI it seems
>>452929
They could have done it by not attacking Belgium, and then switching all the focus to the east, (after annexing Serbia of course) pushing from Poland or Ukraine, depending where the defenses are weaker at any given time, eventually after a year or so St. Petersburg and Moscow fall and you dictate the terms of peace, then move the troops to Balkans, Croatia, Bosnia and Albania to be precise and use them to stage a landing on Italy, keep some around Romania in case they decide to attack, if they haven't already.
After Italy gets taken out use it as a stage landing to invade french Africa.
If the french still aren't willing to come to the negotiating table them then Germany at least gets most if not all of their African colonial holdings.
After that's done move most troops to the Rhine and give them tanks, thousands and push in.
After the initial panic use Sardinia as a stage to land on southern France if/when they move troops to the north.
>>457816
>attacking the east happening without a Western allied offensive
Fantasy-tier.
>>457823
It could happen, and they'll simply get slaughtered Verdun style, I'm not saying leave the Rhine undefended...
>>452479
Why did the Germans want to annex Belgium after the war?
Wouldn't it have been better to take Holland seeming as they have a similar language and culture to the German one?
Like This
>>458293
>tfw save gets corrupted midgame
