Modern day Avar(speaking people) consist of a Muslim caucasian people in Dagestan. The historic Avars which settled in Pannonia and fought Charlemagne and the ERE. Are the the same people?
>>448407
Completely unrelated. Caucasian Avars aren't even Turkic.
Most likely not. Then again, Ossetians are considered to be related to Alans of 5th century, so who knows, caucasus is a clusterfuck of nations.
>>448444
who are the descendents of Avars then? is it just the Slavs in the area?
Also, were the Avars an IRanian people like the Surmatians and Alans, or a Turkic people like the Magyars, Bolghars, and well, Turks... ?
>>448407
They split, part of them went west and part of them stayed on the steppe, later going to Caucasus. Although you might see some sources saying that the western Avars were fake and not really Turkic (Gokturks called them that iirc), that's just the nature of nomadic tribal confederations - they included a lot of people of various backgrounds.
Also, it's really similar to how some Iranic Alans settled in Pannonia, and some went to Caucasus, where they became Ossetians.
Or how some Bulgars went into modern Bulgaria and became Bulgarians, and some settled along the Volga river where they lived until the Mongols rekt them.
Or how some Magyars settled in Pannonia and became Hungarians, while some stayed along the Volga river. Some Hungarian bishop even visited the still-nomadic Magyars during the middle ages iirc.
>>448407
wgy wouldnt they be? have you seen the blonde green eyed afjghans, the uyghurs, the alans, the blondes of turkmenistan, of uzbekistan, kyrgyzstan, tajikstan, places you've never heard of that native blonde and red haired people have libed for ages. heard of the tarim mummies? the speakers of sanskrit that conquered dravidian lands in ancient history and later intermingled with the population.
know your history you fuck. modernity is very very young and we're still largely ignorant about the world before capitalism
>>448469
>Or how some Bulgars went into modern Bulgaria and became Bulgarians, and some settled along the Volga river where they lived until the Mongols rekt them.
odd how the Volga Bulghars were Islamic considering how staunchly Christian Bulgarians are
>>448470
you seem to be rather confused. but the point is that i haven't seen many sources connecting modern day people known as Avars with the historic Avars of Pannonia.
At least the Modern day Avars are known to be a caucasian people where the Pannonians were thought to be either Turkic or Slavic.
>>448469
>Ossetians.
A majority if Ossetians are not an Iranian group genetically. (Haplogroup G)
>>448493
but Iranians are muslim and Ossetians are christian and pagan..
>>448504
>but
?
>>448407
quick answer is no, two different avars. just like the albanians in caucuses.
>>448513
we you don't have to be ordinary. make your best mistakes. We don't have the time to be sorry, so baby be the life of the party
>>448529
yeah i've always thought its weird that there are two Albanias. its not as if its an easy name to coincidentally come up with
>>448407
The could be related to the Hephtalites AKA White Huns?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephthalite_Empire#Descendants
>>448551
Doesn't it come from the latin name for "white", regardless of what the places were called natively? (Albania is Shqiperia, while the Caucasian Albania was Adhan)
Then there's also Alba Longa, Albion, Alba asa a name for Scotland, Alba, Piedmont and Albany, NY.
There was also a Caucasian Iberia at one point, it wasn't even called Iberia though. It was called Kartli, the same as what the largest group of modern Georgians calls themselves.
>>448407
Pannonian Avars were integrated into the Hungarian society amd molded with them.
>>448621
I still believe the Greeks likened the terrain of Spain and the Caucasus as similar, hence we get Iberia in Hispania as well as in the Caucasus.
Funny that the Caucasus Iberians end up in the Hispania Iberia.
>>448467
Magyars aren't Turkic though...
>>448407
IIRC the avars where displaced by the huns and settled the pannonian lands
>>448789
maybe not directly but iirc the Magyars originated from a Turkic confederation that rebelled against the Khazars
>>448407
The avars that established in Pannonia were hunnic people. They were destroyed and perhaps a little bit assimilated by the magyars.
>>448452
Yes. Furthermore Avars even back then were a minority and Slavic language was used as a lingua franca in the khaganate.
>>448995
The magyars are finnougric people originating from the Urals way long before the khazars even existed. And ofc they are totally unrelated to turkic people.
>>449015
Learn2read m8
>originated from a Turkic confederation that rebelled against the Khazars
Turkic Confederacies- especially this early in their history- often included Non-Turkics, like Iranics or -in the case of Magyars- Ugrics- whom they passed by and subjugated along the way to Europe.
>>449045
Not the guy you are arguing with but if you call Magyars Turkic for fighting in Turkic ranks you might as well call Eastern Goths Turkic.
>>449051
Just posted in this thread. Wasn't calling Magyars turkic but saying that they *were*part of a Turkic confederation.
>>448467
Magyars are not Turkic.
>>448444
Actually, Pannonian Avars aren't Turkic either
>>448452
Basically nobody. The avars got their shit pushed in by multiple opponents in rapid succession, and their women and children were NOT spared.
