There are only five original civilizations, all the others ultimately descend from at least one of them: Egypt, Mesopotamia, India, China and Yucatan
y/n?
>>444032
No
>>444032
What about the Greeks? All Western civilization descends from them.
>>444032
I don't think Inca civilization descends from Yucutan. The Peruvians appear to have developed agriculture independently.
>>444032
> No norsemen getting licked out of an iceblock
pretty heretical deus senpai
Egypt shouldn't be on that list, they also ultimately descended from Mesopotamian civilization.
>>444040
The Greeks were just Egyptians living in Europe. Same gods, pretty much.
>>444061
>The Greeks were just Egyptians living in Europe
>>444069
What do you think the Sons of Hercules and Sea People were? They obviously weren't Greeks.
>>444061
Not until the hellenization of Egypt. Greek gods are distinctively Indo-European, Zeus for example is just an equivalent of Perun, Thor or Taranis.
>>444075
Sea Peoples were a mixture of Minoans, Sicilians and Sardinians.
Modern civilizations are descended from Egypt, Mesopotamia, and China. All other Eurasian civilizations were heavily influenced by these, except for the Indus Valley and Aegean civilizations which were mostly independent but collapsed without passing their civilization on. Later Greek and Indian civilizations were more strongly derived from Egypt and Mesopotamia, though they could be called semi-independent.
Mesoamerica, the Andes, and West Africa were other independent urban civilizations but were ultimately subsumed by Eurasian ones.
>>444076
How is Apollo not just an element of Ra that was stripped away from him so that Zeus could seem more unique? Greek mythology owes too much to Egypt for that to make sense.
>>444080
>Indus Valley and Aegean civilizations
>collapsed without passing their civilization on
>>444082
Greek pantheon follows patterns that are present in Indo-European cultures from Britain through Scandinavia to Russia, aka people who were never influenced by Egyptians in any way.
>>444079
And what were the Sons of Hercules? They were displaced from Egypt. When they came to Greece they brought their beliefs with them.
>>444090
But the Greeks *were* influenced by Egypt. That isn't something you can deny.
>>444088
I don't know about pooinloo people, but Aegean civilization did pretty much vanish overnight. Greeks even had to adopt a completely new script from the Phoenicians.
>>444088
Well yeah.
>>444032
Egypt is "descend" from MEsopotamia. Probably Indus too. Also, no.
>>444080
>Indus Valley
>collapsed without passing their civilization
Son, that's who the Dravidians are. They just got gradually pushed south by the invading/migrating/expanding/whatever Aryans, like the Celts were by the Germanic tribes after Rome fell.
>>444103
That's bullshit, but even if it was true it wouldn't change the fact that their civilization collapsed and didn't pass on. The Dravidians didn't have civilization before it was introduced from the north by Indo-Aryans.
>>444112
There was a culture in India before the Aryan invasion, you know.
>>444094
>And what were the Sons of Hercules? They were displaced from Egypt.
Literally fucking what
>>444116
And that culture ceased to exist.
>>444032
What about China, you super retard? Also the original mesoamerican culture was the Olmec one.
>>444116
Yeah, and then it died. There were well over a thousand years in India between the Indus Valley collapse and the rise of the Mahajanapadas when there was really no urban civilization at all.
>>444032
The Andes civilizations were starting back when there was nothing but hunter-gatherers in Yucatan. If anything, it would be Mesoamerica that's descended from the Andes, not the other way around, but it's pointless since in all likelihood they're independent from each other.
Also New Guinea independently developed agriculture as well.
>>444137
You're just pulling shit out off your ass.
>>444137
They weren't Egyptians, they ATTACKED Egyptians from the northeast and clashed in what is now the modern day Israel.
>>444147
This to be honest familia
>>444150
>northeast
North-West
>>444150
Weren't those actually the Hittites and not the Minoan?
>>444099
Apparently a lot Vedic writing and shit like that comes directly from the Indus Valley Civilization. Apparently most of their writings didn't survive very long, which is why we don't know as much about the development of Indian civilization as much as the other three original Eurasian civilizations.
Sorry for posting a line of greentext and a reaction image like a faggot.
>>444155
Nope, northeast. They were advancing down south from Asia Minor and the Levant, ruining places like Ugarit along their way.
>>444159
No, Sea Peoples fucked the Hittites as well.
>>444164
Given that they didn't write shit down, nobody knows for sure.
The smart money seems to be on Western Anatolia or the Aegean.
>>444164
Literally no one knows. All we know is that they came by the sea and came from the north.
>>444160
This. There aren't any surviving records so its hard to piece together. The smart money would say they were integrated into Vedic civilization.
>>444187
So you were just shitposting this whole time? Coulda fooled me.
>>444187
They didn't flee Egypt. They were never in Egypt at any point to begin with, they tried invading it and got their shit pushed in.
>>444187
Well, there are written records from the various people in the region about Sea People invasions, and they generally seem to go like
>oh fuck
>it's those assholes again
>I wonder where they come from
>>444187
>There's no evidence to the contrary.
There's a complete T.Rex skeleton buried on Pluto
>there's no evidence to the contrary
>>444032
Civilization =! writing
Andeans never developed it yet they were arguably more advanced than the Mesoamericans in a lot of things when the europeans arrived.
>>444160
There's some vague evidence that certain aspects of Indus Valley spirituality may have been later adopted by the Indo-Aryans, but the IVC never passed on their civilization. They collapsed completely and urban civilization had to be completely reborn over a thousand years later. They left aspects of their culture, just as the Mycenaeans did, but not their urban society.
>>444199
I think the Indus Valley civilization probably influenced India more than any of the other three civilizations to crop up on the Eurasian land mass.
>>444198
>Andeans
>advanced
No writing, no wheel, no nothing. Just stacking rocks on top of each other.
>>444171
The sea peoples that arrived to Egypt don't have to be the same that fucked up the Hittites, who in turn do not have to be the same that fucke up the Minoans. Or, better said, some of the components of the group probably made the whole "trip" while the rest stopped at some point or joined later.
>>444209
Metallurgy in the americas (which existed and, in the Andes, went beyond pretty jewels) comes from them. Their state structure before the conquest was also arguably well more developed than in Mesoamerica.
>>444208
Not really. There's hardly anything Indians owe to the Indus Valley, while they derived things like literacy and sculpture from the Middle East. It's not sure at the moment whether or not things like urbanism and statehood were derived from abroad or developed independently, but it's certain that they weren't derived from the Indus Valley, since that would be pretty much impossible considering the time difference.
>>444190
Get bent. You haven't contributed much to the thread yourself. At least I'm making arguments.
>>444191
Why would they invade it, though?
>>444194
I'm talking about the Sons of Hercules, who invaded ancient Greece and thereby caused the Greek dark age, not the sea people. There are Greek records of these land invasions from beyond Anatolia.
>>444195
Nice non sequitur.
>>444226
>Why would they invade it, though?
Because some volcanic activity in the Mediterranean caused a shortage of food so they started migrated en masse and Egypt was a fertile land pretty much untouched by the crisis, making it an attractive target.
>>444226
>get bent
>literally applying some Marxian class struggle horseshit on an unrelated event
>>444045
Both civilizations arose around the same time if you count Naqada Egypt and uUMesopotamia. Both had pottery, settlements, and logographic writing. Contact between the two during these periods is very unlikely tbqh.
>>444266
Ubaid* sorry. I don't know how that even happened lmao.
>>444274
Class conflict isn't a real thing, it's a 19th century construct.
>>444274
>who says they never came from Egypt?
Who says they never came from Mars? Sounds just as plausible. Are you American or do you have some other sort of brain malfunction?
>>444266
http://www.recoveredscience.com/const128mesopotamianinfluences.htm
>>444226
>Nice non sequitur.
Homer was a Japanese man
Where's the evidence to the contrary?
>>444032
>egypt, india and china don't descend from mesopotamia
>>444296
Egypt maybe, India and China definitely don't
>>444299
>Marxists
>viewing every conflict as class conflict
>Nazis
>viewing every conflict as race conflict
>Feminists
>viewing every conflict as a conflict between matriarchy and patriarchy
etc
You're all retards.
>>444296
>everything everywhere ever was derived from Mesopotamia
Stop this meme. I bet you think they invented agriculture too.
>>444226
The Sons of Hercules? Do you mean the Dorians? The Dorians were another Hellenistic ethnos that conquered the Mycenaeans during the Bronze Age collapse.
Is Greece descendant of Mesopotamia?
There were also the Civilizations in Western Africa and South America that are not related to either.
>>444309
They're all justified in doing that, its just that race is a stupid thing to care about and feminism disregards class in favor of things that can't be changed by praxis, like sexual identity.
>>444315
Yeah, those are the ones I meant. I've seen them referred to as the Sons of Hercules/Heracles.
>>444318
>They're all justified in doing that,
>>444329
Do you have an argument?
>>444318
Provide one proof that Sea peoples were Egyptians, or that the Heracleidae were Egyptians.
I'm saying they were Slavs. It's as rooted in evidence as your claims.
>>444331
There is no argument because you don't have one to present. You've done nothing but shitpost and you think you can make some assertions about the Sea People when it's obvious you haven't even read the fucking Wikipedia page on them.
>>444316
>Is Greece descendant of Mesopotamia?
Sort of. It was a civilization with very heavy influences from Egypt and Mesopotamia like writing and art, but also saw a semi-independent development of cities and states. The same is true of India. I'd describe them both as semi-independent.
>>444045
No they weren't. There was no direct contact between Mesopotamia and Predynastic Egypt, and the few indirect influences that existed didn't give rise to its civilization.
Here's a great source for this subject:
https://oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/oimp33.pdf
>>444061
>The Greeks were just Egyptians living in Europe. Same gods, pretty much.
is this bait or does anyone actually believe this?
>what are Andes
>what is Mississipi Basin
>what is Niger Basin
>Yucatan instead of Veracruz+Tabasco, or even better just Mesoamerica
>>444379
Mississippi definitely got influenced from Mesoamerica.
>>444400
Why? The only thing they really seem to share are some similar myths. Building pyramids and sacrificing people are both pretty common in early civilizations.
>>444415
Similar artistic styles like in my original picture, yes the pyramids and human sacrifice though like you said that is more universal, and also there were trade relations between Mesoamerica and the rest of the Caribbean. There were even Mayan artifacts and influence as far as Florida.
>>444427
That art doesn't really look Mesoamerican, and I'm not aware of any trade between Mesoamerica and the Mississippi Basin (though there was trade between Mesoamerica and the pueblo peoples) or of any Mayan artifacts in Florida.
Plus, the Mississippian civilization was derived mostly from earlier cultures in the north like the Hopewell, not in the south where Mesoamerican influence would exist.
>>444075
Some of the Sea Peoples were definitely Greek. The Peleset in particular were Achaeans.
I dunno about "civilizations", but Agriculture was only invented twice. Older books will claim a separate origin of Chinese farming, but that claim is given the lie by genetic studies of Wheat (showing a clear near-eastern origin from the right time period) combined with the archaeology showing millet and rice farming developed only after contact with wheat farming technology.
Chinese agriculture is not distinct, it is a branch of the near-Eastern neolithic agricultural package.
On a tangent, this suggests a sort of prehistoric proto-Silk-Road, to get that wheat and the technological package all the way from the fertile crescent to Northern China
>>444672
Got a link for these genetic studies?
Also it was invented more times than that, in New Guinea and a few times in Americas, at very least.
>>444672
Unless you have a credible source for that, I'm calling bullshit.
>The same faggot who thought the Greeks were 'Egyptians living in Greece' didn't know who the Dorians were
Why am I not surprised?
>>444032
You're missing Peru and Nigeria, but lists like that are asinine regardless
>>444164
Ha! You've stumbled onto one of the most profound questions of ancient history.
"Sea Peoples" attacked various societies of the Eastern Mediterranean for a century or two, leading to massive societal collapse. Some people think they were all Greek. Others think they were all Sicilian, Sardinian, Anatolian, Levantine, or mainland Italian.
My guess is that various groups were pushed to migrate eastward by similar conditions (environmental, perhaps?) not unlike the European migrations in the fifth century.
>>444061
we wuz kings n queenz
>>444032
No. Hilariously, and horrifically outdated.
>>444061
This
Hellenic and Persian had the mideast by the balls for 1500 years
>>444032
there were plenty of "original"civilizations; only a free remain extant (where a currently existing culture can trace its inception back to one of them).
greece, mesopotamia (from which both and classical persian and islamic cultures partly draw their roots), india, china, and yucatan if you count the few inca tribes that remain
although that's not to say any extinct civilizations like that of Egypt still don't have a huge impact on nations today.
>>444032
>andean civilization is descended from mesoamerican civilization
>>444075
It's called Dorians.
t. Ancient Greece History 101
>>444032
What about stonehenge, nigga
What about atlantis, nigga
What about Gobekli Tepe, nigga
>>444032
Yes, and Western civilization stemmed primarily from Egypt and Sumer, the Greeks in particular formed their civilization out of Ancient Egypt.
Unfortunately, the shitposting retards in here fail to grasp this even with abundant examples, such as the Seven Sages, Plato/Plotinus, and others traveling to Egypt where it is credited with the foundations of their philosophy and mathematics.
The Sea Peoples were most likely Aegian Greeks (Ionians/Minoans/Mycenaens) who the Egyptian rulers were fond of, apparently to the point that Egyptians traded gold with them, as it has been discovered in Crete, the birthplace of Greek civilization during its early formative years.
When Alexander's forces arrived in Egypt after defeating the Persians in the region, the local Egyptians greeted the Greeks as liberators, and Herodotus gives accounts where Egyptian priests claimed his actions were divinely inspired, and that he was a son of Amun-Ra; the Egyptian equivalent to Zeus.
There is also a Sumerian element, the idea of imperialism certainly stems from the Mesopotamians, as does many mathematical ideas we take for granted, and there is a minor influence from the Phoenicians and Anatolians.
Indus Valley influence mostly came during the end of antiquity and the middle ages.
>>446615
>stonehenge
Isolated example, or at least nobody knows enough about that to comment on its total influence.
>atlantis
Outside of a discussion between Plato, his father, and claims made by the Egyptian priests who gave it to them; there is nothing else.
>Gobekli Tepe
Relevant example, certainly at least it raises the point that Ancient Near Eastern civilization is much older than was initially thought, but it suffers from the same problem as stonehenge; there being not enough information to say its influence on the region, who originated it exactly, etc...
>>444299
>There is class conflict anywhere more than one class exists.
prove it
>london
fuck off Russel Brand
