Hey /his/torian [wannabes]
So I graduated with a 1:1 history degree from a top UK uni this summer. I am now at a crossroads, and I wonder if anyone here who took the arts route can advise.
I have the opportunity to study a Computer Science Master's, and switch into STEM. It appeals because of the relatively good pay, the stead demand for tech workers, the opportunities for remote work, and the opportunity to do something USEFUL with knowledge gained.
This STEM route is less appealing, though, when I think of how much I truly love history. I love reading, books, arguments, curiosities from the past. These things genuinely make me so happy. I consider a history PhD at times, but then I feel the knowledge gained is like pearls thrown in mud- who can honestly say I might make a real difference in the world for those who need it by pursuing history?
Moreover, job opportunities don't seem great.
Idk, any history PhDs here? Can you recommend the arts, or do you think I should carry on with my route into STEM?
Why not? There's nothing stopping you from going back and getting another degree after you have money.
>>437335
they call it work for a reason
even if you majored in a subject that you loved, chances are if school didn't already, your job would turn you hate it
>>437449
well the thing is, if he becomes a historian he will spend the next 40 years of his life teaching highschoolers for minimum wage if he's lucky.
>>437335
The job market is over saturated and as you know the English government in the UK parliament assassinated the humanities in the UK system.
1) How many second languages do you know to a scholarly level? (German and French DO NOT count)
2) Do you want to spend the rest of your life poor, bitter and alcoholic?
3) Do you have a good archive selected?
4) If you're lucky, remember, you're going to be teaching morons first year subjects for the rest of your life
5) Do you know where your thesis fits in the scholarship of your field?
Sounds like your 1:1 was, uh, generous.
>>437713
>My 1:1 was *not* generous, ape.
Yeah, because you're really driven by a research problem and are considering archival viability and disciplinary contribution; rather than if you want to combuter.
Because despite being an undergraduate you seem singularly unaware about the finances of the career you're considering.
Generous. Go combuter, mate. Go combuter.
Yes.
>>437768
I actually did make an original contribution to my corner of history in my 3rd year dissertation. The body of sources I worked with *is* a relatively untapped archive [and I won't share it here, because why would I?], and if I do go into history, I will probably be working with the same body of sources, just as my dissertation tutor suggested.
Neither am I unaware of the rubbish situation for history grad students in the UK.
Stop imagining things, or I'll start imagining that you're a bitter 2:1 projecting your shortcomings onto me. :^)
>>437799
>I actually did make an original contribution to my corner of history in my 3rd year dissertation.
Ha.
>>437833
it's true. Nice dubs.
...So are you a history student?
>>437845
>student
No.
Your tutor should have prevented you from conducting "original" work in the meaning of an original contribution to scholarly knowledge. If they knew, and assisted, well, I have real problems with their pedagogy because honours is meant to be a research preparation course, not a research course.
>>437865
I think you'll find at the better institutions, there is an absolute emphasis on trying to get students to make their dissertation as much like an original contribution to a corner of history as possible. Higher marks and national awards are granted to those who manage it.
I'm not sure why you're making nonsense comments about history degrees, if you aren't a history student/ historian here in the UK yourself.
>>437874
Oh, oops. Just read your comment properly- so you're a historian? :o
Fantastic. What do you focus on?
>>437874
"Its okay, it'll be the first chapter of your thesis" is toxic.
>>437877
A minor problem in subdiscipline in the 20th century which has some general contributions to a couple of important theoretical concepts. By 1989, the minor problem probably affected the lives of 40-50% of first worlders. Still, its only a minor problem.
>>437890
the dissertation is fun, though. I only really understood how to criticize historians after engaging in my own research. I understand an actual historian is going to look down upon the research of an undergrad tho; I'd do the same, so no hard feelings xd
>>437890
Intriguing. :o
What are your living standards like, and do you regret being a historian?
>>437890
>"Its okay, it'll be the first chapter of your thesis" is toxic.
Because you'll remain in a position of intellectual dependency toward your undergrad teachers?
>>437908
I found my disso allowed me to stop feeling awe towards my teachers [and towards historians in general, since I could finally feel confident in criticizing them].
The act of researching itself and handling primary sources independently is important. At my university, we were encouraged to be as original as possible, and my tutor helped very little with my dissertation.
>>437335
Everything becomes a bit duller when you get into it. If you have no certainty or preference, take the better salary/hours, depending on what you value more.
If you're sure that what you love is something you can get through even if it isn't what you think it is or it ends in a place you might not want to be, then go for it.
I never got to find a field that I truly loved, so this doesn't apply to me. It must be nice, having passion.
>>437919
>>437919
>it must be nice, having passion
Stop giving me feels at 7am when I haven't even slept, anon. I have lots of interests and loves; I am dragged in many directions and left confused. Inbe4 "jack of all trades"- untrue in my case.
Thank you for the advice though; it's sensible and I'll probably follow it.
>>437906
>I understand an actual historian is going to look down upon the research of an undergrad tho; I'd do the same, so no hard feelings xd
"Original" isn't an insult, it is just a category. Honours work should be about perfecting archival and non-archival primary reading, analysis, grasp and use of theory, writing, etc.
There aren't any hard feelings, I just disagree with your department's attitude to honours work.
My living standards are crap. It took too many years to secure an appointment, the stress of the doctorate and appointment hunting broke 1 LTR and almost broke another. I'm 15 years of full time income earning down. My progression is shit compared to stem academics. The union is fucking useless (it tries, so it is better than most unions). I will rent for life. If the indications regarding pensions in my country are correct I'll be living in poverty (ie: meatless, heatless poverty).
I wouldn't trade it for anything, even being a senior head teacher in a middle class suburb.
>>437908
Yes. Particularly on problem specification and theoretical formation. Undergraduates aren't in a position to have a strong historiographical or social science opinion on the nature of the world, even if they read twice as much as they should have in their 4th year historiography courses.
It is abusive to force problems, theories and historiographies on undergraduates. Would you force other things inside a 22 year old? So why would you force a perspective you know is only shared by you and 1/3rd of the conference floor of your sub-discipline's conference on an innocent young adult?
What's the quote? A hotbath will wash off a rape?
>The act of researching itself and handling primary sources independently is important.
very.
>I found my disso allowed me to stop feeling awe towards my teachers [and towards historians in general
My system's culture of academics being on first name only basis helps.
>>437919
STEM-homo here, it is indeed very nice. I wouldn't say everything gets duller when you get into it. The first year of preparatory class for me was a permanent feeling of "boy this is hard but I was BORN to do this". For the first time I felt a real connection with people, since I discovered all those dead mathematicians and scientists had been thinking about the same stuff I was thinking about, as well as my classmates.
If your experience is remotely similar to mine OP, I wouldn't give that away.
Any choice you make, remember that midlife crisis is unavoidable either way.
>>437933
For me it was "I want some money, but I'm not that dumb and lazy"
Then I went into a field that showed heavy promise, and lost all motivation. So I ran off to something easier that was still STEM, because even if I wasn't that driven whatever I have left in me to muster will carry me further.
>>437925
My life is not so bad. My experience in programming changed the way I thought about the world, more than any pages about philosophy ever did. Or at least, they made me learn how to appreciate the arts in a way that the arts could never do.
And I get money. That's something I can appreciate. I always get annoyed when people stick to how "money isn't everything", then complain about money afterwards.
>>437335
The answer is simple. Do you want to be a historian or not? Are you ready to write tons of tons of papers, monographs to the point of going into every, and i mean EVERY single detail of your research field? Are you ready to spend countless weeks of just looking up and choosing your sources, reading tons of books with 500 pages each just to back up a few pages of your paper? Are you ready to lecture other people on history, with many of them having almost no basic interest in history at all?
If yes, go for it, because that's what being a historian is about. If not, go for STEM.
>>437335
Being a code monkey for some big company won't make a real difference in the world either.
Follow your dreams!
