What is the difference between a patriot and a nationalist?
the difference is that you dont send a CV ship capture a command zone without being properly escorted by aa corvettes and a LCU
>>562201
George Orwell.
> By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.
>>562201
Sort of pulling it out of my ass, but patriot is proud of/likes their own country, while nationalist is more, pic related.
Patriotism is generally associated with love for a country or the way of life the country provides you
Nationalism is more deep-seated in its connotation. associating with loyalty more than love or appreciation, a devotion to an institution that represents a people-group, and a desire to improve the status of the people represented by it.
tl;dr
Patriotism-I love my country
nationalism-I love my people, I want to see us improve our standing in the world.
>>562201
NATIONALISM IS FAITH IN THE NATION, PATRIOTISM IS FAITH IN THE COUNTRY.
THE NATION CONSISTS IN THE TOTAL COMPRISING A PEOPLE'S CULTURAL, AND ETHICAL, VALUES, AND ITS COLLECTIVE IDEALS.
THE COUNTRY CONSISTS IN THE TOTAL COMPRISING THE STATE ITSELF, THE GOVERNMENTAL SYSTEM, AND THE SOCIAL, AND CIVIC, MORES; THE BODY POLITIC.
>>562201
my country is full of proud patriots just protecting the innocents and our way of life. Your country is full of dangerous nationalists that seek to spread their insane value system and repress and silence those who question it.
>>562201
Whatever it is, people like to use "patriot" as "good", and "nationalist" as "bad"
One feels a loyalty to a state, the other to a nation.
>>562201
Patriotism is devotion to a country, and its way of life and system.
Nationalism is devotion to one's ethnicity and culture.
Like why other posters above nationalism is usually seen as negative, but I think patriotism right now is manifest in spreading dangerous ideology and could be counteracted by a good dose of nationalism.
>>562212
I fucking love stanhope even though he can tip the fedora sometimes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tGTDS6ftK_U
>>562414
Detail the differences between "way of life" and "culture"?
>>562201
Patriotism only makes sense locally. Be patriotic of your local community at a grassroots level.
Read Aristotle.
>>562201
Patriotism is the motivation to serve your country. What constitutes your nation or country may or may not include ethnicity, culture, values, religion or otherwise. It almost always includes the large number of people who are considered part of the country.
Nationalism is the belief your country has certain rights. What constitutes its rights may or may not include the right to not be subject to other countries or the right to possess other countries or contested territory.
You should be wary of modern biases such as those promoted by liberals hysterical over racism who may insist that patriotism and nationalism is always about ethnicity or that it is about feeling unwarranted pride.
>>562210
>The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.
This is just a normative statement. In what way did a Czech nationalist in the 19th century want more power? How did a Zionist nationalist erase his own individuality? Nonsense.
>>563035
Only good answer itt
>>563051
>Czech
They wanted to weaken the Germans and Slovaks
>Zionist
Worst example you could use
>>563035
Nationalism always consisted of ethnicity m8.
>>562210
Orwell is a dumbfuck then. Patriotism is about country, nationalism is about an (ethnic) nation, it's as simple as that, no need to load the words with emotional horseshit.
You can be a Basque and a French patriot at the same time.
On the other hand, you can be a Basque nationalist even though there is no Basque country at the moment.
>>563058
>Czech nationalism in the 19th century
>wanting to weaken the Slovaks
Full retard. You're thinking of Czechoslovakism which really gained traction outside of academia only in early 20th century.
>>563058
>Worst example you could use
Why's that?
>>563067
>nationalism is about an (ethnic) nation
What about France and Anglo countries?
>>562201
Nothing. It's just a meaningless distinction for people not wanting to associate with the "bad" part of the ideology.
Kinda similar to "blacks and niggers are not the same thing" or "fags and gays are not the same thing."
>>563090
France is a particular case when patriotism evolved into nationalism (Occitans, Normans etc molded into a "French nation").
Anglo countries? English or Scottish nationalism is not the same as British patriotism. As a matter of fact, the patriotism/nationalism division could be well observed during the Scottish independence referendum.
>>563094
Not really, no.
A Slovak living in 19th century Hungary could be a Hungarian patriot even if he wasn't ethnically Magyar. However if he wanted an ethnic Slovak state, he'd be a Slovak nationalist.
>>562212
>Implying nationalists only like their own nation
>>563112
So you want to define it as civic nationalism vs ethnic nationalism?
>>562201
>What is the difference between a patriot and a nationalist?
"Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first."
Charles de Gaulle
>>563151
"Civic nationalism" is a meme and in fact just patriotism.
>>563168
Even when it's accompanied by imperialism and colonialism?
>>563177
Yes.
>>562201
Patriotism revolves more around loyalty to your state.
Nationalism revolves around the concept of nationhood and more abstract ideas like ethnicity, language, history, religion etc.
If you were for instance a German patriot this would imply you like the BRD whereas a German nationalist may not.
A Turk could technically be a German patriot. He could never ever be a German nationalist.
>>563035
nation and country are not synonymous.
I really don't understand why so many here have trouble understand what a 'nation' is. It is quite simply and literally the imagined totality of people 'like you'. Typically speaking the same language, but may be complicated by factors such as geography, religion, skin colour, class, etc. It is then used to justify a certain border boundary, but this may be as much externally imposed as internally or 'organically' developed.
Patriotism just refers to loving your country and/or people.
Nationalism is an actual ideology/worldview that sees the world as being divided into nations (like how communists see the world divided into classes) and holds that the nation (a single people, ethnic group) should be the basis of statehood. Nationalism doesn't translate into hate, only retards think that.
>>562212
No.
>>562210
No.
>>562253
No.
>>562367
No.
>>562508
No
>>563035
No
>>563067
>nationalism is about an (ethnic) nation
No
Nationalism, which is a wide and varying ideology, at the base level is the belief that every culture, race or linguistic group should have their own nation.
Nationalism is often confused with imperialism, mainly due to Hitler, because imperialism and nationalism co-existed. For example: The belief that a race is superior is imperialism, not nationalism.
Nationalism gets a bad rap because nationalism having a bad name benefits larger nations, such as China, the U.S and the EU and because of Hitler.
I seriously do not know why Hitler is called a nationalist. He believed in a pseudo-race that doesn't even exist and rewarded allies by making them "honorary aryans". Hitler was more of an imperialist with a slight patriotism.
>>563206
>nation and country are not synonymous
Tell that to the Ameriblobs who literally use them as synonyms
By Jingo
Reddit and their cultural Marxism are in full force now
>>563210
Nation =/= country, dumbass. It's a group of people.
>>563061
No. It often did, but not 'always'. You can easily find examples of multi-ethnic states coalescing under a banner of nationalism, right up the birth of nationalism in the 18th century.
France wasn't always France, but Pays d'Oc, Pays d'oïl, Bretagne, etc. What we today would call 'regionalism', was in earlier times simply an organic expression of smaller-scale sense of belonging ('nationalism' if you want to apply it retroactively).
Ethnicity can also be an ambiguous term.
>>563217
I am european. Not english. My language does not diffrentiate the two so i use them as synonyms.
"dumbass"
Patriotism is love for a country.
Nationalism is love and pride for your nation, which is usually your country but more specifically it means along ethnic lines.
For example, a French patriot could be an ethnic Frenchman or an ethnic German, but they both live in France and love their country.
A French nationalist would be someone who is proud of being ethnic French, and usually but not necessarily proud of being a French citizen.
>>563223
>Nationalism is love and pride for your nation
But it isn't. I can be a nationalist for a nation I've never been to.
>>563222
Slav?
>>563234
Nothing i said was wrong. You most likely are an american, whose only experience with nationalism is some loaded book about Hitler.
>>563223
>Nationalism is love and pride for your nation
I'd argue it's a love and pride for your culture
>>563242
Slavs definitely don't use them as synonyms.
Country - strana
Nation - narod
At least in Russian.
>>562201
none. Both are delusional wannabe replacements for church dogmas.
>>563249
So what language is it
I must know
>>563265
I'm not him so I don't know. In German there's also a distinction (land/staat vs volk)
>>563244
Which is why I then clarified "upon ethnic lines." Most cultures are of one primary ethnicity.
>>563239
Not really.
>>563234
Great argument, nothing I said was wrong. You're probably a butthurt liberal who honestly believes that niggers building mud and shit huts in Africa should be just as proud as what white people have accomplished.
>>563291
>provides no counterpoints
get the fuck out, dipshit.
>>563300
If you're too dumb to see the massive cognitive errors within your own post by yourself then there's really no point in attempting to explain it to you.
>>563306
>still refuses to point out said "MASSIVE" cognitive errors
Keep going, you're embarrassing yourself.
>>563234
I'm a high-school teacher, but I have an MA in political science, and did an entire module on the history of nationalism and post-nationalism.
Guys pls chill this is cringey
>>562201
A patriot is loyal to the culture
A nationalist is loyal to the government
>>563366
So a nationalist would be loyal towards a leftist multicultural party leading the government instead of being loyal to the people?
>>563366
Wrong way round dipshit
>>563422
A nationalist loyal to the leftist multicultural party would automatically make them a patriot too since they represent the people
>>563437
It's not backwards you idiot.
>>563035
>racism
>about ethnicity or that it is about feeling unwarranted pride.
Okay, but those things have happened and resulted in horrific atrocities.
And language is fluid.
So, what word should we use to describe violent brands of nationalism like in Nazi Germany if not the one that's achieved academic consensus?
Patriotism is dynastic. Nationalism is Völkisch
>>565215
Totalitarianism, duh.
All nationalism is silly, but some are sillier than others.
