Common misconceptions about history thread! To start off: The ruling class actually give half a moist towlette about any of us.
>>42678
> The common class doesn't become the ruling class and just as big of assholes when they win the revolution.
>>42678
That the history of all hitherto existing society is infact the history of class conflict
>>42678
>read any story about a poor as fuck pleb making shit tons of money and becoming "upper class"
>surprised to find he's a selfish asshole with no sympathy for lazy poor fuckers
Wow what a development.
>>42678
>People in the Middle Ages were all crazy lunatics who never washed
>The Templars were heroes and defenders of the Christ
>Joan of Arc kept sheeps and was a badass warrior
>Robespierre was an evil monster and Danton a hero
>Hannibal was a succesful general
Popes never had meaningful influence for the past 200 years
>>42678
Economists measure "upward mobility", but I've never seen an analysis of "downward mobility", and I think this would be interesting. The cynical side of me says that once you become rich, you can buy enough political influence to stay rich--under any form of government. I'd say that the founding fathers of the US were different. They were the wealthy elite of their time, yet they created governing documents that sought to distribute power to all of the people. The problem is that the generations of politicians that followed did not share this altruism. I'd say that here in the US we have come full circle back to a ruling class mentality, and it's only been 240 years since we fought a war against to rid ourselves of this ruling class.
>>42806
>Thinks Rockefeller was a robber baron of petroleum
>Not pleb
Pick one
>Marie Antoinette said let them eat cake
>the holocaust only killed jews
>The KKK only hated blacks
>>42678
That the value form is ahistorical and is present wherever money is present.
That cash is the result of barter.
D. Graeber. Debt.
>>43223
>They were the wealthy elite of their time, yet they created governing documents that sought to distribute power to all of the people.
What about the slaves, nothing improved for them. And it wasn't even equality for free people, you could only vote if you owned enough land.
They were certainly egalitarian for their time, but they weren't about making everybody equal.
>>42678
>the Germans actually stood a chance in WWII
Search it in your hearts Naziboos. The Germans were fucked from the get go.
>>43223
>They were the wealthy elite of their time, yet they created governing documents that sought to distribute power to all of the people.
Not really.
>>43609
If Hitler didn't try invading Russia (or if someone else was in charge), they may have stood a chance.
Hitler's main advantage though was that after World War 1, no one wanted to get involved in a large scale conflict again.
>>42678
>Common misconceptions about history
The course of history is determined by certain influential individuals rather than by broad based social, economic, and material conditions.
>>43223
>They were the wealthy elite of their time, yet they created governing documents that sought to distribute power to all of the people.
Incorrect on several counts. The revolution was a war fought to preserve the power an authority of the traditional land owning American ruling class, who were treated as second class citizens in relation to England.
>>43551
Slaves were considered to be property at this time and this mentality was not unique to North America. The Slavery argument is irrelevant to my point, and is only used to diminish the greatness of the founding of the country.
>>43223
>muh founding fathers
The Saints of the American Religion.
That there are any vast conspiracies at all. Yes, of course there are small-scale conspiracies within individual groups or between governments, but the idea of some vast Illuminati cabal is false.
There is no grand conspiracy in writing history, only chaos.
>>43737
Germany didn't have the economic might for sustained warfare against the allies. They never stood a chance.
>>43795
If you want to be particularly blunt about it, it was in large part set off by long existing laws being enforced against habitual smugglers.
>>42678
>Colombus is responsible for everything negative in new world
INJUNS DINDU NUFFIN
>>43223
> but I've never seen an analysis of "downward mobility"
That's called Workforce Expansion.
>samurai primarily used the katana
>>43971
To be fair, Columbus was quite the dick when he was governor of Hispaniola.
>>44072
proletarianisation actually.
>>43223
>yet they created governing documents that sought to distribute power to all of the people
that's what you call restricting voting to landholding whites?
>>42678
>the 4th crusade was unprovoked
>the 4th crusade caused the fall of the ERE
>>44115
Yeah, but there was still 300 plus years between colombus and the trail of tears.
Religion is not necessarily a bad thing.
>>43332
>the holohoax actually happened
>>44142
Fine... let's just make sure that it stays on 'expansionist European' soil and not the United States though.
>labor unions killed Detroit
>the free market will fix it
>the Civil War was about State's Rights, not Slavery
>Native Americans were peaceful and environmentally sustainable before Europeans showed up
>the Second Amendment only applies to militias
>>44213
One good text on proletarianisation is Hammond and Hammond's town labourer. (Free online, old historiography, relatively unbiased).
>>44233
its never a bad thing
It was actually me that fucked your mom back in the day and not your dad.
>>44339
>The Church persecuted Galileo because of this
Viri Galilaei, quid statis aspicientes in coelum?
That the notion that social democracy = democratic socialism
>>44444
Nice quints, too bad they were wasted on such a garbage post.
>>44191
Liberals always exaggerate that and make it look worse than it is
>women weren't allowed to participate in politics anywhere else in the world
>the majority of white men possessed land back then, it was extremely plentiful
>obviously you're not going to give your slaves any rights, as bad as that sounds
>Vikings, and Europeans were above 6 feet tall
Only the aristocracy had access to enough food to be tall. Peasants were often in the mid fives in Europe and shorter in the rest of the world.
That's one main reason peasants didn't uprise. If your rulers were a head taller and much bigger and claimed they had divine right, you would feel like you had no chance.
>>44501
Tell me why I'm wrong.
>>44686
Because you think democratic socialism is in any way a viable or realistic system in real life.
>>42678
>The ruling class actually give half a moist towlette about any of us.
The idea that a "ruling class" exists which is clearly distinct from "any of us" betrays and immature and inaccurate understanding of history, society, and human relationships. "Elites" rarely have lives completely separated from "the masses", and even severely stratified societies have a common culture and common values which connect high and low status groups.
>>44933
Right, George Soros and the Queen of England are just like us.
>>44896
I don't. I just picked a shitty comic off of google. I would describe myself as right leaning libertarian.
>>43737
>Hitler's main advantage though was that after World War 1, no one wanted to get involved in a large scale conflict again.
This is interesting to me. I feel like this holds true today as well, but even more so. We've seen a lot of aggressive actions taken by large nations recently and it seems like we don't do much about it.
>>44218
Found the Catholicfag
>>45073
These aggressions are usually caused by events from below, i.e. from non-nation groups, and while in former times they'd usually end up on the diplomatic table, they're now allowed to escalate, because people learn about them too fast and react too loud.
That doesn't change the fact that doing too much about them is kinda dumb. When local powers want to act in their sphere of influence, it's normally in everyones interest to just let them.
>>44426
Read Kuhn dickhead.
>>42806
>not understanding that socialism doesn't want to transfer property, it wants to end it
>>45139
Found the illiterate byzantboo 12 year old
Religion was created to give people power
>>44992
>George Soros
Is a Hungarian Jew who, as a leftist, rejects normative Western Civilization. Any category of "us" which includes my sense of identity, isn't something he is part of. That's not a product of his wealth and power, rather it's a product of his rejection of and hostility towards my culture and values.
>the Queen of England
Is a bit sheltered, but she's still a christian anglophone, which indicates she and I likely share most of our values.
>>45533
Religion was created to give people unity.
The civil war was entirely about slavery
>>42678
>People thought the Earth was flat
>>44153
This, so much this.
>>44237
This isn't /pol/.
>>46234
Some people still do think the Earth is flat, so it isn't very far-fetched that ignorant people back then thought the same thing.
>>42678
>The ruling class
>there's only one!
>>42759
THIS THIS AND THIS
FUCK OFF COMMIES REEEEEEEEEE YOU'VE ALREADY RUINED /LIT/
>>43223
>but I've never seen an analysis of "downward mobility"
Read "A farewell to alms", you'll find it interesting.
tldr : downward mobility was actually the norm for most of history, not upward mobility. Most people today descend from the upper classes of yesterday.
>>42678
>Columbus was the first explorer to discover America
>the US bought the entire southwest from Mexico
>the US only bought the Gadsen strip, the other areas were ceded due to the Mexican war
>The British Empire was a superpower and the world's most powerful entity when the Americans rebelled
I found it staggering when I saw an American unironically claim this in the other thread ( >>42444 ) but I think this dumb myth is very widspread among US population
>>43551
They were pragmatists; the nation probably wouldn't have formed if they had disallowed slavery back in the last 18th Century.
>>46635
But they were the world's most powerful entity in terms of military might and power projection, dipshit. They had just defeated France and took all of their North American colonies (aside from a few islands in the Caribbean) just a decade or so earlier and no other European power could challenge them 1 on 1.
>>46392
I would imagine most people would have the sense to acknowledge they don't really know.
They may imagine it to be flat, but it seems like a weird thing to have confidence or belief in such a hypothesis
>>46635
Uhh, Britain was a superpower when the American Revolution occurred...That's common knowledge.
>>44300
>the Civil War was about State's Rights, not Slavery
The two are intertwined greatly, along with a combination of economic and political factors. Especially regional tension. Slavery happened to encompass all of those issues at once. So you're right to say the war was over slavery, but that's somewhat of a misconception in and of itself that the war wasn't over state rights as well. Slavery WAS a state's right issue at the time, a large part of the southern economy, and the north (and as well as the south in some instances) pushing for laws applicable to their counterpart and not just themselves.
>>46856
>But they were the world's most powerful entity in terms of military might and power projection, dipshit
You weren't, you uneducated scum
Plenty of european powers were most powerful than them militarily speaking
>They had just defeated France and took all of their North American colonies (aside from a few islands in the Caribbean) just a decade or so earlier and no other European power could challenge them 1 on 1.
You must be trolling, right?
Britain outnumbered France 4 to 1 in North America while the French army was busy gainst Prussia, and it still took them a decade to win (pic related)
Britain didn't stand a chance in a 1vs1 war against France, Spain, Russia or Austria
Just because they won on a remote theater by heavily outnumbering an enemy busy with most urgent matters doesnt make them an invincible superpower
Do not forget to LEARN about a topic before talking about it
>>46899
It's simply crazy how deluded and ignorants you Americans can be...
>>47043
> Britain was weak and had no power projection.
> Here, this example of Britain being able to field a much larger force on a different continent and ultimately win the war clearly proves this.
>>47043
>Britain didn't stand a chance in a 1vs1 war against France, Spain, Russia or Austria
Right, I forgot about the powerful navies fielded at the time by those other countries. You're retarded if you can't realize that power projection is more significant than the amount of soldiers you can deploy on the European continent.
>>47091
Not American and never been there, I've just got an understanding of world history.
Jackson was a horrible president (according to liberals)
Nixon was a horrible president
The trail of tears was a bad thing
Manifest Destany was a bad thing
>>46899
The British Empire became a superpower in the mid-19th century
Get your facts right, yank
>>47209
But they were a superpower. Just because something's common knowledge doesn't mean it's necessarily a misconception.
They had colonies and ports in continental America, Caribbean, India, Australia and Africa. They had a massive navy. They could at least hold their own in any defensive war against a continental power. This stuff is basic history.
>>46368
Doesn't change a thing
>>47262
If it wasn't for Watergate, Nixon would probably be remembered as one of the greatest presidents, even by liberals.
Also, JFK's dad totally stole the election from Nixon in 1960 by rigging the votes in Chicago.
>>44627
Sounds like someone drinks too much class warfare kool-aid. Most Europeans had enough resources to reach their full height throughout history, barring times of famine and squalor. Slavic and Germanic warriors were between 5'8" and 6' in the Classical era. Italians were always shorter than them, and Greeks shorter than Italians. Height has been pretty consistent in the long view of history, if occasionally bumpy in the short-term. There were no societies that were 90% dwarfs and 10% giants. If that were so, we could not have such robust agrarian societies.
Common misconception: Hitler was a bad person.
>>47311
You're underestimating the definition of superpower
They were a global colonial power, just like Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands and France
The term superpower implies a dominance that Britain wouldn't achieve until after the Napoleonic Wars
>>47421
Oh, I see. Just a global colonial power. Nice semantics.
>>47384
Sorry, fucked up here, there were no Slavs in the Classical era, call them proto-Slavs or steppe nomads. The people that would become Slavs.
>>43332
>the holocaust killed only jews
Who believes that?
>nations have existed for thousands of years
>nations and nationalism have a basis in material reality
>>47492
This isnt the same at all
There were several global colonial powers
Superpower = most powerful country of the world
Britain wasn't even the most powerful country in Europe
>>47400
Can you say the same about George W. Bush? If not -- there's the door!
>>47533
Super power has the connotation of the ability to project power globally.
So while britain may not have been the most powerful in europe, they were the best at projecting overseas power thanks to the powerful navy.
>>43609
No, they really weren't.
They took France right off the bat. The Battle of Britain could have gone the other way. The 6th Army doesn't necessarily get encircled, and Hitler wins Russia's oil fields.
gg no re. Good luck invading mainland Europe from across the entire Atlantic Ocean, I foresee two competing unified empires, one American, one European.
>>47533
No, that would be a hyper power. The term superpower literally arose during the Cold War (i.e., more than one powerful nation).
Hate to breaak it to you, but you are wrong.
Rockefeller family and friends even admit it.
>>46234
I mean, that might be relevant in China.
>>42678
>Native Americans were Muslim
>Jesus is an English transliteration
>Buddha did not believe in gods
>David wrote the Book of Psalms
>Joseph Smith was homosexual
>The Aztec weren't Zionist Jews
>>45533
>Religion was created
dropped
>language was created
>culture was created
>tools was created
>>47091
>you Americans
eurokek detected
>>47400
din do nuffin
>>47771
>The Aztec weren't Zionist Jews
Explain.
>>42852
Never 4get Cannae desu senpai
>>47641
On the next page he goes on to say that he was mocking the people who claim that.
But you didn't read the book - you saved a picture and took it at face value while spouting it as truth.
Sorry bud.
>>48036
My dad once asserted to me that Latin had to have been created at some point. I didn't even understand how he could have believed that
>>48082
>not realising that being european is a good thing
>>47771
>Native Americans were Muslim
who has ever claimed that?
how would islam spread better than/before christianity?
"A knight would beat a samurai"
>people actually think poland used cavalry against tanks in ww2
>dey Crusaders were evil and shit
>Muslims were good boys who dindu nuffin!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
>>44325
ohh thats where i get my autism from
>>46606
who was the first then?
>>44444
Good digits
>>51177
>learning history on youtube
lad
Hannibal was right.
>history as we know it is accurate
>>42678
The ancient Greeks were 'Western'
>>46635
Its one of many American myths
> Columbus's journey was about trying to prove the Earth was round
> Paul Revere's Midnight Ride
> Betsy Ross making the first flag
>>47605
Yet their navy was checked by the French during the war
>>47641
How do you fuck a maymay up so hard?
>>44300
>Native Americans were peaceful and environmentally sustainable before Europeans showed up
Now I'm interested, care to back that up?
>>43930
Maybe against the United States, but the United States' involvement was never a sure thing until the Japanese had to go and fuck it all.
>>43971
He was a psycho-ass dick, nothing can change that
>>52171
He's saying that is a false presumption. The natives had suffered cataclysms and were mostly a fallen society.
>>44300
>the Civil War was about State's Rights, not Slavery
Slavery was the flashpoint upon which a war over states rights happened. People trying to kick slavery under the rug are being dishonest about what a big factor it was, but by the same token people who act like it was just slavery and not an issue of many states being unhappy with growing federal powers/intervention are also oversimplifying it.
>>42759
But that's actually true. Go away and write some History book about les Kings and les battles is le History with your pre-Marx "historians" ladm8s.
>>52212
>He's saying that is a false presumption
I know, hence me asking. I've always frowned upon this meme, but I don't know anything abut it, and don't want to be that obnoxious edgelord pushing his shit.
Still doesn't mean that the genocide wasn't an embarassing moment for human history. One in many, however.
>>46234
Every time I have to explain that people did not think the world was flat I get madder and madder. Textbooks are awful things.
>>42852
>Robespierre was an evil monster and Danton a hero
>misconception
u wot m88?
>>46392
Modern day Flat Earthers are literally insane. Their opinions have as much worth as people who claim to receive visions from Atlantis.
Every civilization who was even slightly involved in naval trade knew the Earth was round because they could stand on the coast and watch ships come into the harbor sails first.
In fact, people knew so much about the exact circumference of the Earth that nearly all of Europe refused to give Christopher Columbus money to sail to the East Indies because they all knew he'd fucking starve to death on the way there. The fact he ran into a continent half way there was just dumb luck.
>>47612
So let's say the BoB goes the other way. What's Gemany going to do now, invade Britain with river barges?
>>42678
We spend all our time learning about tyrannical governments oppressing the people, and yet most historians support expansion of government.
>>52373
Flat Earthism is itself a modern creation too
>>42678
that the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Romans, Israelites, Greeks weren't Black Africans.
>>42852
>Robespierre was an evil monster and Danton a hero
Finally, somebody who agrees. Robespierre was obsessed with virtue and ideology but he had some of the firmest principles you'll ever see in a human being. Danton was charismatic and an agreeable enough man but he wasn't particularly virtuous.
People tend to make too much of Robespierre on both sides. He was a prominent figure but he never single-handedly drove the entire revolution and while he probably went at least a bit mad from the pressures of his work combined with trying to reconcile his beliefs with what was happening around him but he never became cruel.
>>52482
This. Most of Europe was African up until the Germanic hordes invaded Western Civilization.
>>52373
Holy shit that link
Saved
>>52510
>implying Charlemagne wasn't a brutha
>>52362
There's some truth in it. Most people were iliterate and ignorant and believed in witches and shit. Educated people knew ofc, but it took the discovery of America and explorations of the world to spread the word, like pop culture of the time.
>>52580
Just because a person believes in one retarded thing doesn't mean they believe in all retarded things.
Most of the "evidence" for past belief in flat earth comes from the T map, which is just a really basic map of Europe, Africa, and Asia; not meant to be super detailed or show the globe as a 3D sphere.
The misconception that colonization ruined Sub-Saharan Africa.
It was the only good thing to happen to Sub-Saharan Africa for hundreds of years.
>>52362
This was a big thing under the Roman Empire, it's where the Medieval orb originated. The legionary standard was mounted on a globe, signifying Rome's claim to universal rule over the entire Earth. Roman coins had represented Jupiter and other gods holding globes in the Republican era also.
>Russia is STILL communist
>>52635
A lot of people think that early maps were basically an early version of a GPS. Which they weren't, they were too vague to be used for travel.
They were more symbolic, political and religious.
Here's some of my own misconceptions from before I got interested in history:
That the Roman Empire ended in the 5th century
The Popes were extremely powerful, Chinese Emperor-like figures
Alexander the Great was an ancient, Trojan War-era-ish personage
Hitler only targeted Jews in the Holocaust
Samurai fought with their swords
And as a kid, I thought that monarchies were completely extinct in the modern world, blew my mind when I discovered that certain countries still have kings and princes, and really made me mad that we got rid of ours (pic related)
>Voltaire was a friend of the little people
>>52373
Well if we're going to talk about crazy loony theories we might as well mention fucking Fomenko.
Jesus Christ the amount of bullshit he wrote to try and make everything fit his theory.
>>53351
>Voltaire was an honest man who won the lottery by luck
Voltaire was kind of a dick in hindsight
>>53514
That just mean he did his job right
>>53334
>And as a kid, I thought that monarchies were completely extinct in the modern world, blew my mind when I discovered that certain countries still have kings and princes
Same here. Funny that I'm Portuguese. Proud republican tho.
Buddhism is a historically peaceful religion
Islam lowered the value of the lives of women in the Middle East
Sharia law is compatible with western culture
Romans strictly refers to white people, there were no black Romans
Democracy is the best form of government
>>42678
>Julian's attempt to revitalize paganism was futile, Christianity was already dominant, with or without Julian
very very very wrong, had he lived Christianity might have been a minority religion such as the christians in middle east.
>>53842
Eh, Christianity wasn't really dominant in his time, but I really doubt he could have halted its advance. At most, I think, he could have popularized universal toleration of all religions, maybe maintained Hellenism as a religion of the elite while Christianity was relegated to the plebs, and even that would have been difficult without an heir to continue his work into another generation.
>>52305
>implying the Aztec empire didn't basically genocide all of the neighbouring tribes.
>>53986
the heir argument is a bit offset, of course you would need heirs to continue had constantine had successive pagan emperors after him all his effors would be in wain, thats a given
He was not just tolerating every religion or was just sympathetic to pagansim he was planning to heavily sponsor and unify it , people heavily underestimate the power of state sponsorship going behind a religion. Had he laid the foundations there was a very good chance that Christanity would be gone. Kenneth Harl did some studies about it, check his lecture for laymans: Fall of Paganism and Origins of Medieval Christainity for his commentary on whether or not Julian would be succesful.
>>52373
Why don't flat earth theorist just test the theory for themselves?
>check horizon distance at sea level
>check horizon distance from atop a hill or mountain
It so easy. You don't even need measuring equipment; you can see the difference with your naked eye.
>>42678
>the architecture of the ancient world was always eroded and older films were all grainy
Ancient architecture often had vibrant colours and were kept clean and polished. Films used to be crystal clear but eroded over time.
>>54135
>>Kenneth Harl did some studies about it, check his lecture for laymans: Fall of Paganism and Origins of Medieval Christainity for his commentary on whether or not Julian would be succesful.
I will man, thanks
*tips imperial diadem
>>52635
>A person
More like the majority of the people in the middle ages didn't have any understanding of the Earth at all and probably hadn't seen a :world map in their lives in the first place.
Educated people knew. The average peasant, didn't know and didn't care.
>Christianity actively works against and conflicts with scientific advancement.
Its probably the worst thing to come out of that cosmos show. The amount of times
Athiests spout 'MUH GALLIEO or MUH GIORDANO BRUNO'. Its fucking annoying desu
>>42759
>2015
>Rejecting historical materialism
gb2 /pol/ m8
>>54429
Too Revisionist for my tastes desu
>>52373
I've got a friend who's a flat-earther. I sent him a video of a ship disappearing over a horizon and he told me it doesn't look like that in real life.
This is also a guy who believes in any number of batshit conspiracy theories. /x/-tier, so I think he just likes being paranoid.
>>54465
probably not even paranoia, just an infatuation with conspiracy theories and myths
>>42852
What is Cannae?
>>43223
Faggot chan has a commie board.
jet fuel can't melt steel beams
>>54372
Hilariously enough, Giordano Bruno would have thought atheists are retarded. He was an avid occultist, and cared more about pagan philosophy than he did science.
>Vikings had horns on their helmets
>Marble Greek sculptures weren't painted
>Hades was a villain and Zeus was benevolent in Greek mythology
>A knight in plate armour couldn't stand up if they fell over
>Biblical cherubs look like winged babies playing harps
>>54679
Cherubs are scary as fuck,
Chariots on fire with wings and all that shit.
>>54679
>A knight in plate armour couldn't stand up if they fell over
I still kind of believe this desu. The reason being that during the Battle of Agincourt many knights drowned in mud once they were knocked from their horses because they were unable to get up? Or is it more of an issue of gaining the traction to lift oneself up when in mud while dealing with weight of ones armour.
>>54942
Seems like an issue of filthy british cocksuckers banter.
>>54942
At the time shoes had horrendous traction, that with the weight of the armor killed them.
>>54942
Maybe it's the issue that they just fell off a horse, are injured, and possibly have just been trampled.
>>54942
https://youtu.be/WMuNXWFPewg
>>44237
>being this retarded
>>55125
Man that was a good fall. Falling off a horse like that is a pretty scary thing, armor or not.
Imagine falling on your back from this height.
>you'll never know the feeling of living a life without a nihilistoc outlook and utter lack of true purpose like a viking raider looking to please Odin with his exploits
>you'll never walk to streets of Rome during the reign of Trajan as a wealthy senator enjoying the splendours of Roman life
>You will never be a knight of a medival European power with your passion and purpose being that of making yourself into the greatest swordsman of all time and a loyal servant of your honourable leige lord
>>52305
>genocide
Native Americans were unusually susceptible to smallpox. They were hosed. No matter what the Euros did, as long as they were making contact with America ninety percent of Americans were going to die.
Source: Charles C. Mann, 1491. Seems pretty legit, I haven't found any credible-seeming criticisms. Same for the natives being a fallen society. A side theory he mentions is the Amazon being at least partially planted as an orchard for a now-lost civilization.
>>56164
>you'll never know the feeling of living a life without a nihilistoc outlook and utter lack of true purpose
Sounds like you're being confronted with the absurd my friend! Ever heard of Albert Camus :^)
>>52635
>Just because a person believes in one retarded thing doesn't mean they believe in all retarded things.
This. Isaac Newton was an alchemist. Imagine Stephen Hawking doing astrology on the side. Apparently what we see as retarded was not considered retarded.
>>56313
>tfw everyone is so serious in academia now
>Nero was an insane, malevolent bastard that played a fiddle while rome burned
>>56561
It's a stifling environment for real fampai.
>>52373
I was under the impression that most, "flat earthers" were just a bunch of people getting kicks out of proposing bad science and watching some retards believe it. Much like this group started out: http://www.christiansagainstdinosaurs.com/
>>57512
This. Adding to that, the surest way to make /his/ the new /pol/ is to take anons seriously, bring up Poe's law, or say anything to the effect of "not sure if trolling or serious." If you have to ask, you've been trolled. Don't even mention how smug you are in your assurance that someone is trolling. Just roll with it if you get it, so everyone believes /his/ are flat earthers for a couple weeks until we move on to Fomenko.
>>43855
Go away Reptile Jesus you can't fool me
>>47511
Nobody. But a lot of people cite the death toll as 6 million, which is ignoring all non-Jews
>>42678
>communism has not been tried
>>52305
>>52171
As I recall, at one point the native americans cut down a shitload of forest. They also had several large trading cities with populations of between 6000 and 40,000.
When they has contact with Europeans and consequently started dying like crazy due to disease and the trading cities fell into ruin. The continent rapidly grew back much of the forest. This meant there was less CO2 in the atmosphere, meaning the atmosphere had less capacity to absorb heat. This "rapid reforestation" led to a small ice age in Europe.
That's the theory, anyway.
>>43223
i read an article about how english nobility of the 14th century has for the most part kept its social status so there's that i guess
>>52422
it worked in one direction, why not the other?
even forcing england to back out of the war for a period of time would've been a MASSIVE shift in how the war went
>>46368
>implying people on /pol/ are the only ones to have such opinions....
Stop looking for /pol/ when /pol/ isn't there.
>>42678
>the germans are evil and started ww2 and they are killing too many jews
>all of the crusades were just classic examples of christian aggression
>black people in africa invented the steam engine
>>48225
>On the next page he goes on to say that he was mocking the people who claim that.
Can you provide the next page please?
>>42678
>"Those ancient people were so barbaric for not following concepts of Human Rights!"
>Person saying it doesn't even know when or how those rights were philosophically created, and can't fathom them not existing.
>>51331
Well the Norse definitively landed (and settled) before Columbus, but conflict with natives drove them north to Greenland, and then the climate that came with the Little Ice Age wiped them out.
>>43833
Someone seems butthurt that their country wasn't founded by near perfect men.
So much this >>59255.
We still do this shit to other cultures, today.
>> The revolutionary war was fought over oppression on the side of Britain against Americans.
Nigga we all know Franklin wanted to smoke rope and fuck slaves.
>>55364
>being this prejudiced.
Spanish inquisition didn't burn witches, protestants did.
Christian doctrine states witches do not exist.
>>42678
"The ruling class actually give half a moist towlette about any of us"
Depends if they are nationalists or not.
>>59340
you are what is wrong with the west. if you go to another country, it isn't your right to go around raping kids just because people do that in your home country. philosophy has nothing to do with it, human rights or no, that is fucking savage.
but people like you protest it. cultural differences do fucking matter. in 4 years a fifth of the german population will be muslim. why are you such a barbarism apologist that you would want to pervert german culture with another, backward (by german standards) religion when people like you seem to hate christianity so much?
>>44097
That's true for most centuries, just not at the origin of the samurai, where they were primarily archers.
Mind you, Samurai never ONLY used Katana, but the samurai were an entire soldier class, and always needed a weapon on them. Most weapons were impractical to carry into buildings, so the sword became the default.
Maybe you meant "most samurai used mostly katana's in battle" Cause I could see that being a common misconception.
>>59504
LOL. Then do something about it, you fucking /pol/ neckbeard.
Go outside and curbstomp some Muslims in your community to get them to leave. It's your country, if you want it to be isolationist/nationalist, go do it. Don't cry to me on the internet because you're a lazy and whiny piece of shit.
>>59491
You still don't get half a moist towelette from them...
>>59581
oh course they would, they are nationalists. They care about their people.
>>52171
Native Americans were just as violent and environmentally destructive as any other people. They were at constant war with each other, would trade with a village one day and raid the same village another day. They'd often slaughter entire villages of people, women and children were usually not spared unless they wanted them for slavery. There were plenty of mass graves found that preceded the colonization of the Americas by Europeans. I read some statistics also that showed native peoples as being more war-like than civilized peoples. The gap between death tolls was quite big. Living in a tribal community back then sounds like hell. You couldn't even get up in the morning and have a piss without fear of an attack.
>>59614
Name a nationalist that actually succeeded to improve squat?
>the coliseums were extremely bloody and gladiators died all the time
Thanks Gladiator (and christians)
>>59700
Thanks for mentioning this, never would have known.
>>54416
>Be a history major.
>first thing we cover in theory course is why historians reject historical materialism and history as a science.
>>59569
whoa there buddy. i just don't think that those poor oppressed brown people should be able to use culture as an excuse, especially when they want to talk about islam as a religion of peace. either rape is cultural or islam isn't the religion of peace. either the few who do fuck around should be punished to the fullest extent of the law or they should all be kicked out.
it isn't muslims i would curbstomp, it is the progressives and the socialist alt antifa types. government funded domestic terrorism. too bad they travel in large groups and wear masks, so i, as one person would be fucked.
christianity is responsible for the decline of the roman empire and a suppression of technological advancement
>>59672
Churchill.
Oda Nobunaga.
Otto von Bismarck.
>>56289
>Camus
I thought that name sounded familiar, his grandson is a tv personality in Japan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXpyr0aVkHM&t=1m43s
>>59768
Monotheistic religions actually played a large role in allowing the existence of large cities. Without some form of divine morality, there would be no security or stability in huge population centers.
People maintain a stable social relationship up to 250 people, so as long as community was around that size, everybody would know everybody else. As such, crime was extremely difficult to pull of.
For example, in a small fishing village, Joe couldn't steal Bob's pitchfork and get away with it. Everybody in town would know that Bob lost a pitchfork, and everybody would know that Joe suddenly gained a pitchfork. This made thievery mostly impossible.
With the rise of large cities, it suddenly became the case that everybody didn't know everybody. When there's 5000 people in a single community, almost everybody will be a stranger. If Joe stole some random guys pitchfork, the thievery couldn't be traced back to him. There would be nothing stopping him from getting away with it.
Some people need an incentive to not commit crime. In a small community, the incentive was that you couldn't realistic steal without others noticing. In a large community, that incentive doesn't really apply.
This is where religion comes in. The concept of eternal punishment is an extremely effective incentive to live your life honestly. If people fear divine retribution, then they're not going to sin, even if sinning benefits them and lacks any earthly punishment.
This is what allowed large cities to flourish, despite the ease at which somebody could get away with crime.
It's also one of the reasons why religion is losing influence in the developed world. These days, the police and the state are seemingly so efficient and omnipresent that they have effectively replaced god as the incentive to not commit crime. Whereas in the past, people feared god, now they fear jail.
So, those who say religion never once played a positive role in society don't know what they're talking about.
>>60344
Then why was society more urban in antiquity before the rise of monotheistic religions, and more rural during the medieval period after monotheism had taken over?
>>43855
I'd counter that with there are no direct conspiracies, only people who aim to change the world in a specific way and manage to set in motion things to cause it, which in effect create a 'conspiracy' of members indirectly working for the cause (being not aware of it.)
>>59788
>Churchill
>Bismarck
Sure
>Nobunaga
Fuck no. He was a madman who ruled by force of arms and was resented for it. He happened to be good at doing so, but his "empire" fell apart within weeks of his death. It was Hideyoshi that set up the concept of military unity and Tokugawa who set up the institutions and laws that allowed it to be maintained
>>47091
Ypu ever think that your incessant need to shit talk Americans comes from an inferiority complex?
I kinda want flags on this board.
>>42678
>The ruling class actually give half a moist towlette about any of us
The quality of this post is so low. You didn't even try to relate it back to history. Keep posting like that and this board will die fast
>>53778
Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.
>Common misconceptions about history thread!
Oh boy.
middle ages people drank only alcohol because water was unsafe
middle ages people did not wash or bathe
middle ages was a terrible period of no learning or advancement
middle ages people though the earth was flat
WW1 was all trenches
WW1 generals were bumbling buffoons who didn't understand things like machineguns
WW1 soldiers spent all the time in the trenches
WW2 maginot line was somehow a failure
WW2 battle of britain was a tiny number of heroic "the few" saving the world from the brink of defeat by the endless luftwaffe
WW2 most german tanks were tigers/panthers/massively superior to allied tanks
WW2 all of german military technology was years/decades ahead that of the allies
Cold War the ussr was hell bent on the destruction of the united states
Cold War the eastern bloc was communist in the strict sense of no wages/no market/no "real" jobs or companies
Cold War western culture or goods were only available through illegal black market means and were unknown to everyone
>>60956
>I kinda want flags on this board.
that would just make it worse
>>61121
>WW2 maginot line was somehow a failure
This one's true, though
>Build wall, lose war
>???????
>It was a failure
>>61121
>WW2 maginot line was somehow a failure
Well it didn't work
>WW2 battle of britain was a tiny number of heroic "the few" saving the world from the brink of defeat by the endless luftwaffe
When people say "the few" they mean the proportion of British pilots to British people. They don't mean British pilots to German pilots. That's why it's "Never has so much been owed by so many to so few".
>WW2 most german tanks were tigers/panthers/massively superior to allied tanks
Yeah but even the Panzer 4 was generally considered superior to the Sherman
>WW2 all of german military technology was years/decades ahead that of the allies
Some of it definitely was, why do you think it was a race to capture German scientists after the war?
>>61214
but it isn't
it did exactly what it was supposed to do
protect half the frontline, save manpower, save money
which it did
>Every nationality that has white skin is complicit in American slavery and somehow responsible even in the present day
Must be a college kiddie thing, it's so fucking stupid.
>>61386
the point about BoB was that popular history pretty much ignores the fact that the british had kept building planes and training pilots at a higher rate than germany and as a result were not in a particularly major danger of losing
for maginot see above, it literally did work exactly as the french intended
>Yeah but even the Panzer 4 was generally considered superior to the Sherman
no, just no - certainly not the short barreled ones, certainly not the not-uparmored ones, and even those upgunned and uparmored retained poor suspension, later models had poor turret traverse, and the shermans were entirely capable of taking them out - by no means were pz4s 'superior' (let alone 'massively')
>Some of it definitely was, why do you think it was a race to capture German scientists after the war?
some of it was, sure, i never said it wasn't
just as some of the allied technology was, like electronics, fuses or penicilin
>>61472
I don't see how the Maginot line worked when they just went around it and got defeated anyway. We all know they didn't expect the Germans to go around.
The Panzer 4 of 1944 which the Americans faced had a better gun than the stubby Sherman one.
>>61497
>We all know they didn't expect the Germans to go around.
THEY LITERALLY DID
that is why they built the maginot line
to funnel the germans towards belgium, where the best french divisions would meet them
>>61529
Well that went well. For a plan they expected to happen they sure handled it well.
>>61497
not only had the americans also faced the panzer 4 of 1942 and 1943
but more importantly, the 'stubby Sherman gun' was capable of penetrating pzIV armor up to early G models at 2000+ metre ranges
dropping to 800 yards with AP and 1500 with APCBC with late G onwards for hull shots (turret penetration still at 2000+)
>>61579
they expected the germans to go around, but they did not expect an attack through the ardennes
>>60382
Because focus shifted from urbanised Rome to rural north?
>>42678
>The ruling class actually give half a moist towlette about any of us.
Does anybody believe that?
>>59622
Statistically, primitive populations lose 1% of their total population every year from inter-tribal warfare.
Not 1% of the male warrior population- 1% of their total population.
The nighttime raids that result in a few burnt huts and speared women and children, the men who bump into the other tribes men while hunting, etc...
For comparison, a population as large as the USA would have to lose 3.5 MILLION people to war every year.
Primitive people, INCLUDING the original Native Americans, were incredibly violent, and it is only socio-historical revisionism that paints them as "peaceful".
>>60209
>implying the various memes on 4chan all started on /pol/...
You disappoint me anon, I expected critical thought, yet found only more memes...
>>60382
The collapse of the Roman empire caused the network of supply to vanish, you eurocentrist.
>1800 was a long time ago in human history
no wonder I always want to be making things out of trees
The worst misconception is that the cultures that prevailed through history were better, ignoring that at the time they were just one of many factions which could have easily lost or won the most important battle of their history for bullshit reasons which would have snowballed them to success or failure
>>44300
>the Civil War was about State's Rights, not Slavery
I've always been of the opinion that the South did split from the North to preserve their slavery, but that the Civil War itself was over the power of the Federal government and preserving a way of life that was slowly being driven out by industrialization. Well, for the poorer and more common man, at least. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
Also do correct me if I'm wrong on Lincoln not really caring for the slaves or abolishing it, but did it as a political move to keep the Brits from helping the south.
>>66507
It was a thing of states' rights on the macro perspective, but those states' rights were slavery. Don't let revisionists fool you, the CSA was a profoundly racist state, their constitution establishes Whites are better than Blacks and Blacks are property, not people. Lincoln disliked Blacks and wanted them gone, but he also wanted to break the South.
>>66573
If you asked a Southern senator, he would say he was trying to preserve the Southern way of life, including slavery, which he considers their business only. Asking about the Fugitive Slave Act would produce cognitive dissonance.
If you asked a Southern soldier, he would say he was fighting to protect his rights. Slaves are something rich people own, and he probably doesn't have much of an opinion on that.
If you asked Robert E. Lee, he'd say he was a Virginian first and Virginia was being invaded. I wonder if he would have had a problem with the Feds just going for South Carolina.
>>66573
Well, I was thinking about it with the more common man, as I said. I doubt everyone in the South could afford or even needed a slave, so they probably weren't thinking "Gotta keep those niggers where they belong", but I am, admittedly, ignorant about this part of the Civil War, more focused on the generals and the battles.
Why is Chris Christie so goddamn based?
>>66639
>I wonder if he would have had a problem with the Feds just going for South Carolina.
Probably, since it would set a dangerous precedent.
>>59277
Now you went full Naruto
>>42678
Germany in the 20th Century. It was totally a conspiracy to fuck Germany. The American-Jewish Conspiracy totally screwed Germany in WWI and afterwards. Hitler decided to get away from the Jewish Money and the unjust reparations from World War I. Germany went from worst economy to best economy during the depression that was created by the Jews. Hitler was actually a Zionist and paid for German jews to relocate to Palestine but many did not want to leave. Berlin in the 1920s was the cess pool Sodom and Gomorrah of Europe and the first male to female sex change was performed in Berlin. Hitler honestly did nothing wrong he saved his nation and actually was preventing genocide of Germans in East and West Prussia which has always been German land not Polish land. The Holohoax actually was not nearly as bad as what the Russians did to German women and what the Allies did to Dresden, Germany. As an American I am embarrassed at what my country did.
>>47338
>If it wasn't for Watergate, Nixon would probably be remembered as one of the greatest presidents, even by liberals.
That's a joke right? No liberal would approve of Nixon defanging the Fair Housing Act or his desire to keep some segregation alive in the USA
