Currently in Shanghai.
The Chinese Governments (the regionals and national) are heavily promoting Esperanto Week.
They've begun teaching it to children.
Are there any benefits of replacing World Language (Esperanto) with English?
Isn't English easier to maintain than introducing a brand new language?
>>413153
My guess is that their interest in Esperanto, especially for youth, is that learning Esperanto supposedly makes learning Indo-European languages easier in the long run. I don't think they're actually aiming to replace anything.
That said, Esperanto was popular amongst Spanish Anarcho-Syndicalists and even printed fliers in it, and iirc, Mao privately considered Esperanto as a state language but gave that up for simply advancing literacy and writing reform.
>>413173
We should avoid teaching Esperanto in the West.
China can easily use it as a tool against us.
>>413198
Not going to happen. Banning a language would be unconstitutional.
>>413198
Let's ban a language that was designed from the ground up without arbitrary rules, unneeded punctuation, and odd characters. Absolutely brilliant. Personally, I applaud China for trying to advance this language. I don't agree with everything China does but this is an exception.
>>413153
What are the governments stated reasons for doing this?
My theory is that they're being forward thinking and would rather have Esperanto and not Mandarin replace English because it might be easier to gain a foothold, might be more attractive to the west and those who already speak a European language, and maybe just because they don't care about people speaking Mandarin as long as they can communicate with them and they're not speaking the language of their rival.
>>413463
But who would learn Esperanto? Would you?
China has to make it useful somehow. They cannot make the West replace English, the richest language in history, for a made up language.
>>413496
I actually am learning it.
All lingua frances are eventually replaced. The west will replace English when the US is no longer relevant. If the next superpower, which China sees itself as, tells everyone else to learn this language to do business with itself, then they will learn it, regardless of how made up it is.
>>413545
I'd rather remain monolingual and not be brainwashed by China. China's rise to superpower can be halted.
>>413545
>being this delusional
>>413153
>that one girl wearing leather pants and jackboots
Spotted the future porn star and/or war criminal.
>no inclusive vs. exclusive 'we' distinction
No excuse for a constructed language.
>>413585
It's also a sexist language. Read about riismo.
>>413570
You just sound like a paranoid redneck now.
>>413575
You're the one being delusional if you think one lingua francas out of all of the ones in history is somehow special and has independent permanence separation from the superpowers that popularized it.
>>413585
I agree with you, but unfortunately that's not a trait found in indo-european languages and Zamenhof didn't know much about languages that had it, besides, it's not that big of a deal. Although the lack of a second-person plural separate from the singular is a big problem that he had no excuse for.
>>413593
Riismo is retarded shit and languages can't be sexist. Esperanto is slightly imperfect with regards to the asymmetrical markings of gender, but I figure iĉismo will become a lot more popular as time goes on and people want the language to be more regular.
>>413609
French and English do without such a distinction.
>>413653
Not without confusion a lot of the time. The need is strong enough that new pronouns and phrases have taken the place of the lost "ye" like "y'all" and "you guys"
>>413609
>you think one lingua francas... has independent permanence separation from the superpowers that popularized it.
Latin had a pretty good run long after Rome was gone.
My point re: your delusion was more along the lines of how you seem to believe that Mandarin or Esperanto (lel) is going to take over because of China's growing economy. Basically you're that guy in the 80s who thinks Japanese is going to become a global language because they're doing well at the moment.
>>413686
Latin stayed around so long because of the Catholic Church and them creating the centers of learning.
I'm not saying China will be the next superpower, I'm saying when there is a new superpower and the US is no longer relevant, English will go the way of French, Latin, and Aramaic.
>>413686
This.
Everyone spoke Latin for a thousand years after Rome fell.
When The United States because just another irrelevant Mestizo New World country, English will still be in vogue.
Esperanto is a language of idealists. It cannot spread.
>>413713
>Latin stayed around so long because of the Catholic Church and them creating the centers of learning.
Doesn't this just strengthen my argument? The vast majority of academic papers today (over 95% I believe) are published in English. You can take courses in just about any subject in any country taught in English. English is the official language for maritime communication as well as between aircraft. Bills of lading and all that shit are always in English when the goods cross borders, even when the two countries in question are not English speaking. The infrastructure is already in place, stuff doesn't happen in English just because "America told us to" anymore.
>>413545
>lingua Frances
> A weapon to surpass Metal Gear
>>413747
To play Devil's Advocate, if efficiency is the problem, teaching new people a complicated language is a waste of resources.
Esperanto takes a few months to master(100% fluent) while English takes years just to get the basics, and even then you sound like a retard due to all the exceptions.
After just one generation, teaching Esperanto, and actually having everyone be able to learn the world language, would radically change society.
Of course, that would mean that China won the New Cold War.
No bueno.
It sounds pretty cool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NmRmI1rOew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JahaN05XZw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROc408L6YAQ
>>413762
>Esperanto takes a few months to master
I seriously doubt this claim.
That said, I'm sure it is faster to learn than English or any other natural language. You're right in the sense that the most logical thing to do would be to have everyone commit to learning a global language. It's not going to ever happen though, which you (or that other guy) seem to believe.
>>413713
The US pretty much started the digital and communication revolution. It's going to stick around for quite a while.
>>413719
Like I said, people wrote (they didn't speak it) in Latin because that was what everyone educated was taught; the world is a lot bigger than medieval Europe, and the majority aren't taught in US or British universities.
And Esperanto has spread, and it is spreading. Before the internet it was experiencing a steady growth, after the internet it has boomed exponentially.
>>413747
All of this is a case of American dominance, and before that British dominance. The infrastructure can easily change and will change when a new superpower doesn't want their old rival's language spoken anymore.
>>413754
Lel, you know what I mean.
>>413790
Irrelevant. Calculus was published in Latin, but we don't need to speak it to use calculus. Parents in Africa don't teach their children English, the schools do, and when the schools start teaching the language of the new superpower, English will slowly die as a second language.
Shit, I always thought Esperanto was one of those Spanish offshoots like Basque or Aragonese(?).
Actually seems like a cool idea.
>>413900
Don't bother. It was made by a Jewish gentleman. It will never spread in the Middle East, where the oil is.
>>413762
>Of course, that would mean that China won the New Cold War.
Good.
It means those Anglo fucking shits will finally pay up for their crimes against humanity.
>>413945
>N-no! English will stay around forever! I don't want to have to be like the foreigners and learn another language!
>>413890
Esperanto has as much chance as spreading in China as Trump has of becoming president.
>>413952
>implying I don't already speak another language.
To answer your retarded points though:
>the majority aren't taught in US or British universities.
You don't have to go to a US or British university to speak English. In fact, most English speakers around the would have not. Furthermore, since British and American universities are the best in the world and will continue to be into the foreseeable future you could say everyone that matters will have been educated at one of those institutions.
>after the internet it [Esperanto] has boomed exponentially.
I mean sure, going from 2 to 4 speakers is exponential growth but...
>All of this is a case of American dominance
It's really not. When a Mexican and a Frenchman does business in English is that because of "American dominance?" I think not.
Con't
>>413954
U N S T U M P A B L E
>>413762
You still sound like a retard talking fluent esperanto, because every word ends with a vowel.
>>413993
>The infrastructure can easily change and will change when a new superpower doesn't want their old rival's language spoken anymore.
This idea is predicated on a couple really stupid points. First, that there will be one and only one Superpower in the future and secondly that said Superpower can dictate at will how people communicate.
First off, going forward the geopolitical landscape will return to being a multi-polar world rather than China or whoever being the sole superpower. So there you go.
Second, even if there was only one superpower it cannot just force everyone to learn a new language. Especially one there is already one in place that suites everyone's needs just fine.
>Irrelevant. Calculus was published in Latin, but we don't need to speak it to use calculus.
This is because Calculus is math, independent of human language. Computers on the other hand work in tandem with the languages they are programmed in, almost all of which use English keywords.
>>414016
Most languages in the world have Null coda.
English is weird with all it's consonant clusters.
>>413993
It's really not. When a Mexican and a Frenchman does business in English is that because of "American dominance?" I think not.
This. Mexicans and French people are mostly fluently in English. None would chose an artificial language. Just like none would chose an artificial penis or artificial leg, if they could keep their original one.
>>413993
>You don't have to go to a US or British university to speak English. In fact, most English speakers around the would have not.
My point was only the British or US universities have an institutional reason for speaking English.
>Furthermore, since British and American universities are the best in the world and will continue to be into the foreseeable future you could say everyone that matters will have been educated at one of those institutions.
Being the best is dependent largely on prestige and wealth. Once the wealth dries up so will the prestige, and vice versa, and new international universities will take their place.
>I mean sure, going from 2 to 4 speakers is exponential growth but...
Nice shitposting. You're still drastically underestimating the influence of Esperanto.
>It's really not. When a Mexican and a Frenchman does business in English is that because of "American dominance?" I think not.
The Mexican and Frenchman both speak English because of dealings with the US, not because they like the language or because they came together and decided to be apart of some meme.
>First, that there will be one and only one Superpower in the future
I'm not saying that.
>Superpower can dictate at will how people communicate
Its influence will be enough. The same way the British Empire's and the US' influence was enough for people to start speaking English, the same with the French before them.
>Especially one there is already one in place that suites everyone's needs just fine.
Except it doesn't, English is a very difficult and irregular language and regardless of it's spread, it's still associated with America and the UK.
>almost all of which use English keywords.
You don't need to know an entire language to learn a few keywords.
>>414056
>Except it doesn't, English is a very difficult and irregular language and regardless of it's spread, it's still associated with America and the UK.
If you can't learn English, you're not worth speaking to. No point in speaking to peasants in India if they're too stupid to read a book.
>>414016
That's not true. Many prepositions end with a consonant and so do all words in the plural and accusative.
>>414024
>Most languages in the world have Null coda.
Obligatorily? Source I see says about 12% have obligatorily null codas. English consonant clusters are unusual though.
>>414056
>I'm not saying that.
Mate, your entire fucking post is essentially saying that a new superpower is going to come in and force everyone to learn a new language. So, yes, your are saying that.
>Once the wealth dries up so will the prestige
And why would the wealth dry up?
>You're still drastically underestimating the influence of Esperanto.
Not nearly as much as you overestimate it.
>The Mexican and Frenchman both speak English because of dealings with the US
No, they speak it because it is the most widely spoken language on the planet so when they both decided to learn a foreign language that's the one they gravitated towards. If someone in Portugal, lets say, decided they want to visit Italy one day do they study Italian? Fuck no, they study English because they can use that there and everywhere.
>English is a very difficult and irregular language
loling at your life
>You don't need to know an entire language to learn a few keywords.
Comments motherfucker, love 'em or leave.
>>414119
>Mate, your entire fucking post is essentially saying that a new superpower is going to come in and force everyone to learn a new language. So, yes, your are saying that.
No, I'm saying America will eventually cease to be the superpower and its successor or successors' language will become the new lingua franca of the world.
>And why would the wealth dry up?
Because the prestige will dry up. Why go to Yale when it's just some university in an irrelevant country? People won't care about its history, they'll care about how prestigious the university they go to will be, and that prestige will obviously be tied to its home country.
>Not nearly as much as you overestimate it.
I'm not overestimating it, I'm saying it could become a major world language, especially if there was a powerful entity pushing it.
>No, they speak it because it is the most widely spoken language on the planet so when they both decided to learn a foreign language that's the one they gravitated towards
Well, first of all, they were probably forced to learn it in school, secondly, regardless of how widespread it is, people still don't have some attachment to it. Only 340 million people speak it natively, which puts it behind Spanish and soon to be begin Hindi. The 500 million who speak it as a second language aren't going to teach it to their children; if the schools are pressured to teach a different language, then that is what the new generation will speak.
>loling at your life
Not sure what your point is. English is difficult and irregular, and many would prefer to learn something else if they had the choice. Esperanto has that attraction, and if people thought it was a viable choice, they're probably choose it over any other language.
>Comments motherfucker, love 'em or leave.
Only applies to past coding. New software doesn't depend on them, and the transition between new international languages wouldn't be immediate.
My question is what will replace English? It's much simpler than Mandarin and has pretty much established itself as a global language with the advent of the internet and cell phones.
Pretty much anyone who has money in this globalist world knows some English.
>>414233
Yup, English is the language of the global financial elite.
>>414233
You only perceive it to be simpler because of your lingual bias; Mandarin is simpler and more logical in many respects.
>>414184
>No, I'm saying America will eventually...
Okay, but my point is that in a new multi-polar world the N.Am/NATO bloc will continue to be an incredibly influential one. Combine this with the fact that English already has a place of preeminence and it will be incredibly difficult to dislodge. Especially if we think that India will be one of the rising powers, which already uses English.
>Because the prestige will dry up. Why go to Yale when it's just some university in an irrelevant country?
Nobody gives a fuck about the prestige of the country a university is in. They care about the prestige of the school. For example, I would argue that Oxford is probably the most prestigious school in the world. And yet, the UK isn't even the most powerful/relevant country in Europe.
>I'm saying it could become a major world language
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I'm afraid. I think you're daft to think it will ever get off the ground.
>Well, first of all, they were probably forced to learn it in school
Maybe so, but that will continue to be the case for years and with each new learner the incentive to teach it continues to grow.
>English is difficult and irregular
Compared to just about any other natural language you care to name English is piss easy. People can say "taked" rather than "took" all they want and I get what they mean.
>Only applies to past coding.
Except most everything is built on top of old code. Especially if you're taking UNIX.
>X language is harder/easier/simpler/more complex than Y language!
stop
>>414262
I don't have to learn 10000 characters and understand subtleties in tone for English. Simplified or not, it's not something that easy to learn at a base level than English.
>>414263
Tbh senpai, I don't really feel like arguing anymore. I guess the future will tell eventually.
Still gonna learn Esperanto tho :^)
>>414276
Except in the case of Esperanto, it's actually true.
>>414296
You might as well learn Klingon or Elvish, faggot.
>>414303
There is no need to be upset
>>414296
I just hope 20 years from now when your hobbyist language continues to be a hobbyist language you will remember this conversation.
>>414341
Until then I'll be gaining sick lingual learning experience and staying with my European Esperantist bros FOR FREE
>using a boring eurocentric conlang as a lingua franca
Seriously though, esperanto is so fucking lame, why do so many people have a boner for it? It sounds robotic and looks like trash, why wouldn't one just use a natural language?
>>415319
Because they find it to be chique. Same reason why some Americans use the metric system or some Indian people use the Gregorian calendar. These European inventions are seen as helpfully quirky.
>>415360
>why some Americans use the metric system
We use both here in America, Imperial is just more useful for day to day stuff.
>>414063
>accusative
You know, this was the most enlightening post in the whole thread
This language was dead before it even began
>>416152
Agreed.
Most languages, like English and Spanish, don't have cases because they are garbage.
It's ugly and sounds like shit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=530Y4a6jomI
It's a nice idea in theory, like nuclear energy or socialism, but it just doesn't work in practice.
>>415319
It sounds fine, and is largely dependent on the person's accent, and I like the look of it. It's only eurocentric in its vocabulary and the reason people prefer it over a natural language is its actually designed to be easily learned.
>>415360
Yes, people have learned and spoken it for a century because they think its fashionable; don't be retarded.
>>416152
It's hardly dead, and I'm sorry your anglophone brain gets triggered because the language has a feature that's not in English and you don't want to learn grammar.
>>416174
>because they are garbage
>it's ugly and sounds like shit
Why are you even on a history and humanities board if you're going to fling around subjective opinions like its fact? Many languages have cases, Esperanto just has a single letter for the accusative in order to free up word order, but of course, since it doesn't confirm to your biases and you don't want to use language in a different way, you just reject it.
>>413153
A language with no culture or history behind it is a terrible idea imo
>>417579
But Esperanto sounds inhuman.
All nouns end in o.
Instead of having an i plural like in Italian, they choice the diphthong-Greek ending system. oj instead of i is objectively uglier.
>>419051
It sounds perfectly normal, and all nouns ending in O is no different than any other grammatical system with the same ending for certain words, like gender, declension, or conjugation. i sounding better than oj is just your opinion, and in my opinion, it sounds more rhythmic and flows better. It seems you have some hard on for natural languages and if your weird lust for irregularity and convulsion isn't satisfied you say it's inhuman, when Esperanto is designed the way it is precisely because it is human and clicks better with people.
>>419051
Damn there are too many fucking syllables in this language and the shit does not flow. Only good ones here are the mano and kapo.
Maldekstra, korpo and okuloj are fucking retarded.
This is coming from a fluent Mandarin and English speaker.
Hand and Shou are much fucking easier words for hand.
>>419580
>2-3 syllables are too much
>especially for an agglutinative language
Go speak Toki Pona if you only want single syllable words.
>>416174
Nuclear energy and socialism both work fine in a controlled environment.
>>419051
>implying the Greek diphtong ending is ugly
Having the definitive article match the ending of a substantive is not ugly. In fact it's way more aesthetically pleasing than English' "the" for everything.
>>419919
Esperanto only has one definite article: La.
It's like the English definite article went to Mexico, got robbed, beheaded, and replaced by some Mexican whore.
>A common language is only useful as long as lots of people speak it natively!
Bullshit. There are many more 2nd language speakers of English than there are native speakers. Same goes for Swahili.
In India various states communicate with each other in English. If you had a German, Japanese, Chinese, African, Arab or whoever else together, what else would they use? Why replace English with anything else? Even if the U.S. does lose influence, English is here to stay for some time yet.
>>422378
There is no reason, like at all.
English the most logical, richest language on Earth.
Replacing it with a communist language is wrong, on so many levels.
>>419051
too many k sounds
>>413153
if there's going to be an artificial lingua-franca it should be one that has self-descriptive words
like where every noun is a combination of roots in a predictable order that describes its properties
>>422449
>>422378
>If you had a German, Japanese, Chinese, African, Arab or whoever else together, what else would they use?
French.
The German mother is French and taught him the language as a child, The East Asians learned it at classes as a hobby and the African came from Senegal and the Arab is Tunisian.
>>423405
That wouldn't be the right thing to do until you get rid of it.
>>413900
>Basque
>Spanish offshoot
I think you just might be the most retarded person on /his/
>>422480
Yeah, China should stop.
>>423954
Stop hating on English. It's vocabulary is huge. It's history is rich. It sounds diplomatic and strong. It's popular for a reason.
What needs to happen is for non anglo countries to stop relying on British Council and American equivalents for English and take some ownership of the language themselves.
The age of the "native speaker" being the target is fading.
>>423964
I'm not hating, I'm being objective. It does have a large vocabulary, it's history is as rich as any other, but how it sounds is completely subjective and it's not popular because of any other reason that British and US hegemony.
>>424060
Agreed. Most people spoke Latin long after the Roman Empire fell. It was used all the way up to the 1800s.
>>425207
Latin is and always be the language of the elite.
>>426840
Most were plebs.
>>413153
>Are there any benefits of replacing World Language (Esperanto) with English?
no
Almost all of the US and UK speak English.
Most of Europe and India speaks enough English to get by.
About half of the world knows something about English and English has the most extensive vocabulary.
Esperanto is basically half English anyhow.
everyone speaks english
>>428121
/thread
>>428121
How is Esperanto half english? I'm not very good at it but my impression so far has been that it's mostly based in latin roots with some germanic roots as well and russian style sentence structure. Any comparison with english js just because of english's germanic roots. If anything I'd put esperanto closer to spanish or french.
>>428154
Motherfucker, do you speak English? Why do you care about having another international language? You're all set!
>>428216
I speak french too, another lingua franca. Why shouldn't I learn languages I enjoy?
>>413414
fuck your constitution
>>413762
You don't see value in all of the exceptions of English?
You don't see any parallels to cultural revolution and the abandonment of history?
too many chink spies in this thread
>>416174
I hate the way it sounds. Talk about bad planning, Mexi-chinks.
