What went wrong?
>>409548
Just about everything.
nothing
communism destroys everything it touches. and people still have the ignorancy to support it
Going from a monarchy to Marxism.
>>409715
>Che Guevara
When will this meme end?
>>409712
LOLWHUT !? Shut Up little elite
>>409723
>che wasn't a Marxist
Lmao
>>409730
>b-back the fuck off ?!?!
ayyyyy, woodinit bee a gud idea to git rid of da duma XDDDDDD
>>409548
it started with steppe people who knocked them back about a centaury or due and left serious cultural scars
>>409715
>>409819
What is this
>>409830
It was found in some schizophrenics apartment after he hung himself in the 50s.
>>409830
Satan's last supper.
Gorbachev and Yeltsin.
>>409548
At what point, do you mean?
Most recently, it was the Yeltsin administration's decision to go full retard with their "Free Market" reforms, which handed the nation's wealth to the oligarchs.
Before that, it was Gorbatchev's half-assed attempt to create something approximating a limited open economy.
Before that again, it was Brezhnev, and his administration's flawed economic policies, and later the invasion of Afghanistan.
Before that, there was the somewhat naïve trust Stalin put in the Molotov-Ribbentrop treaty, which more or less resulted in the devastation of half of the European USSR.
Before that, the failure of the agricultural policies, due mostly to lack of trained administrators. (Hohols, see: http://www.academia.edu/1867572/What_were_the_factors_influencing_the_move_to_collectivisation_of_agriculture_in_the_Soviet-_Union)
Before that, the decision of the Czar to not seek closer cooperation with the Central Powers prior to World War I.
Before that again, the failure to reform the government towards a more democratic model. (See: Imperial Germany)
>>409712
You're 100% correct. It rewards laziness.
>>409959
>this old meme again
"He who does not work shall not eat."
-V.I. Lenin
>>409548
>what went wrong?
not much, to make it short, for Russia's done a lot more to improve itself than the le epic memers claim. but lets summarize it.
Russia starts with the worst real estate in Eurasia. no defensible borders, fuck all for farmland, any water for ports is frozen 8 months out of the year, and trade routes to the rest of Europe are so long and dangerous that most people don't make the trip.
So the Russians do the only thing they can, expand until they find clay that's worth a damn and work from there.
Ivan III was the first to start Russia's rise after expelling the Mongols, and expanding to Kazan and beyond in order to create security for Russia. Over the centuries, the Russians strategy was to expand until they find a geographic barrier they can defend, and be secure from there. So they expand to the Carpathian mountains in Europe, the Tien Shan mountains in Central Asia, and the Pacific Ocean in order to make Russia defensible.
All this expanding suddenly gives Russia the tools they need to succeed and become a major world player. Trading ports in St. Petersburg, Sevastopol, and Odessa, actual farmland in Ukraine, and coal and steel in the Donbass and oil in the Caucasus. This alarms the Western powers who now see Russia as a threat that is actively competing with them and can challenge them on the battlefield. Creating a searing hatred towards Russia's perceived threat to the European continent.
So wars wars and more wars are fought. Russia has to expand in order to be defensible, and European powers such as France and Germany try as hard as the might to charge across the Steppes and destroy them, creating a mutual hatred and distrust between the West and Russia. So the propaganda and stories spread of Russians being genetically inferior and not worthy of the air they breathe, and the West being corrupt and only concerned with lining their pockets with money and treasures, creating the atmosphere of distrust you see to this day.
>>410070
muh borders
>>410070
Yes Ivan, you were defending yourself all the way through Eastern Europe.
>>410097
...Huh? I think you have it the wrong way. If anything they've defended themselves all the way to the east end of Asia.
>>410097
yes cause that's 100% correct and needs no other context.
In the end both sides are right to be paranoid of the other, because both sides are correct.
The West does in fact want to destroy Russia, and Russia does in fact have to expand in order to prevent themselves from being destroyed.
![Russian_civil_war_west.svg[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/GuiDlq6.png "Russian_civil_war_west.svg[1].png")
>>410119
Why are you antagonizing "West" and Russia, though?
Russia is not a special little snowflake. It's a North Asian country with a fair amount of European influence, that's all there is to it. Sure, it's imperialist, expansionist and overall annoying as fuck but there have been plenty of states like this throughout history.
A common assumption is that Russia existed far longer than "ordinary" countries, though, and therefore it is different. This is plain bullshit since Russia proper only formed around 16th century (Kievan Rus is to Russia as what Rome is to Romania, really) with Russian Empire emerging in 18th. 300 years is not that long in the grand scheme of things.
Also this geopolitical/securitization view of Russian history is deeply flawed due to the fact that geopolitics values space above all (and Russians fucking love it for that) - too bad Russia has almost nothing else; look at a population density map.
Not to mention that outside of Russia proper (which funnily enough roughly corresponds to original lands held by Bolsheviks during Civil War, pic related) the situation of the regions is pretty much a colonial one. Sure, they don't have sea to separate them but huge chunks of snow and nothing works just as well.
I'm not going to deny that Russian expansionism/colonialism was pretty successful all things considered but that's not anything new or outstanding, and it's definitely not due to muh security victim blaming.
>>410191
> Kievan Rus is to Russia as what Rome is to Romania
Found Ukrainian.
>>410237
Amen, brother. I don't get these people
>>410237
It's true though.
>>410278
It would be true if Romania kept Julio-Claudian dynasty, remaining republican institutions, literally tradition in classic Latin, Roman paganism (with pontifex maximus moving to Bucharest) and was colonized by refuges from Italy.
>>410326
>kept Julio-Claudian dynasty
Who said Moscow had the eldest branch of Rurik dynasty? There was agnatic seniority rule; not to mention that Rurik dynasty is fucking huge with some branches probably still existing today in some way.
>remaining republican institutions
Veche in Moscow was chased off by Dmitry Donskoy, Zemsky Sobor was shut down by Romanovs.
>literally tradition in classic Latin
Colonial character of Russian Empire indeed helped with establishing the modern Russian language largely based on artificial written Church Slavonic one as opposed to spoken ones so it is partially true.
>Roman paganism (with pontifex maximus moving to Bucharest)
Moscow patriarchy wasn't recognized by Constantinople until a long time passed and Kiev patriarchy and clergy almost despised it for being backwards initially.
>colonized
Yes.
>by refuges
Literally a 19th century meme. There were no mass migrations from Kiev to Northeast.
>>410070
>we were just defending ourselves!!
The whole victim complex made sense back in Tsarist times when the Western World had a record of trying to subvert Russia because they threatened the status quo (see the Crimean War).
But that excuse has largely been used as a crutch for the aggressive expansion of the USSR and Russia in recent years. The whole world didn't hate them because they were commies (not entirely at least). They hated them because they were keeping half of Europe as a massive open-air prison for half a century.
>>409998
Hence the lazy (everyone under communism) shall perish.
Literal ideology of death.
I love how every Russian aggression is "defensive".
>expanding all the way to the pacific? defense!
>invading Finland and annexing Karelia? defense and securing the Baltic region!
>invading Poland? defense against nazi Germany!
>invading Ukraine? defense against NATO bases in the Black sea!
You're even worse than the Americans.
>>410423
But don't you see? It's an evil western conspiracy to keep Russia down! All our neighbors hate us because the West is corrupting them! It couldn't possibly be because we kept half a continent as a massive open-air prison for 50 years!
>>410423
This 100%. Germany should have only tried to royally fuck Russia up in WW1 and sieze their land, and sought peace in the West.
>>409548
Russia
Damn, why do people always get butthurt when they hear someone mentioning Russia
Poor guys
>>410438
>YAHTA ABRAMOVICHA
Audible kek
>>410460
>t. Ivan
>>410468
You got me, man. What am I gonna do now...
>>410367
>Who said Moscow had the eldest branch of Rurik dynasty?
Who said about the eldest branch? The thing is, Moscow kept the pre-Mongoliand dynasty unbroken until 17th century, so it's strange to consider it unrelated to Kievian Rus. Especially since Rurikids in the Western Rus' died out by 14th century.
>Veche in Moscow was chased off by Dmitry Donskoy, Zemsky Sobor was shut down by Romanovs.
Yet it was alive in Novgorod for a long time. Again, in a contrast with Western Rus' where no republican institutions survived.
>it is partially true
So how come Russia kept Church Slavonic and used it to create modern Russian and yet it has nothing to do with Kievian Rus'? Again, compare it to rural dialects Western Rus' languages are proudly based on.
>Kiev patriarchy and clergy almost despised it for being backwards initially
Which Kiev patriarchs? The ones who moved first to Vladimir and then to Moscow because Kiev was literally a dead city? And again, why did they move to barbarous east instead of moving to the true Rus' on the west? Also post-14th century "Kiev Patriarchy" is a polish meme.
>There were no mass migrations from Kiev to Northeast.
Yet the land was depopulated and cities were empty, I guess Mongols just genocided everyone. Well, except all that nobles who moved with families into Vladimir and Moscow we know about.
>Literally a 19th century meme.
Kievian Rus' itself is a 19th century meme. And "Russia isn't really Rus" is 16st century polish meme.
>>410470
The only thing you know. Continue with the nationalistic shitposting
>>410499
Wait wait wait, I've only posted three times in this thread, well four if you count this post too, haven't said anything nationalistic or whatever, it's just funny how people are so obsessed with hating on Russians.
>>409712
>AND DEN MUSICA CRUSHED DE EBIL GOMMUNISM
>>410514
Ah ok. Well the hate for the Russians seems to be thanks to their fairly aggressive foreign policy objectives. While they superficially may resemble the objectives of America, they rarely have the advantage of holding the moral high ground, so it gets them a lot of flak. Plus, their objectives more often than not are at odds with the objectives of the West, so naturally there's going to be a lot of anti-Russian sentiment.
And a victim complex second only to Imperial Japan's really doesn't help things.
>>410474
>Rurikids in the Western Rus' died out by 14th century
Firstly it's Ruthenia and secondly they didn't. A lot got polonified, though
>Yet it was alive in Novgorod for a long time
You massacred Novgorod, Ivan. You killed them all. Modern Russia has even less to do with Novgorod than Kiev. Even Novgorod dialect did not survive.
>So how come Russia kept Church Slavonic and used it to create modern Russian and yet it has nothing to do with Kievian Rus'?
Church Slavonic is an artificially made language used only by the church itself, hardly an achievement here. Ruthenian language had both written (see Lithuanian Statute of 1529) and spoken variations.
>Yet the land was depopulated and cities were empty, I guess Mongols just genocided everyone. Well, except all that nobles who moved with families into Vladimir and Moscow we know about.
Pogodin stay dead already.
>Kievian Rus' itself is a 19th century meme.
A very loose conglomerate of principalities with the center in Kiev is how it was historically whether you like it or not. Don't go muh Novgorod on me either, the city is younger than Kiev and you massacred it anyway.
>And "Russia isn't really Rus" is 16st century polish meme.
Kingdom of Rus has never been in Russia.
>>410474
>And "Russia isn't really Rus" is 16st century polish meme.
Lithuanian really. The Lithuanians, who during the medieval era were massively ruthenized, competed with Moscow in uniting the ruthenian lands and tried to establish themselves as sorta-kinda-continuators of the Kievan Rus.
Centralization of power. Basically state of things in the hands of one man and based on how retard or genius is he. Everyone is okay with this except bunch or contrary memers who always repressed.
>>409548
Pseudomorphosis. According to Spengler, Russia was forcefully westernized by Peter before it could create its own culture. The rest of its history is the country chafing against the petrified, artificial form of being forced on it.
>>410423
>expanding all the way to the pacific? defense!
Yes historically biggest threats came from there.
>invading Finland and annexing Karelia? defense and securing the Baltic region!
St Petersburg is within firing distance of the Finish border. Stalin offered to trade parts of Karelia for moving the finish border back from St Petersburg. Fuck the Balts anyway all Nazi Supporters.
>invading Poland? defense against nazi Germany!
Tried to save half of Poland everyone think you are bad guy.
>invading Ukraine? defense against NATO bases in the Black sea!
Who the fuck is Invading Ukraine?
>What went wrong?
What went right?
>>410518
Yeah, it did.
>>409548
Khrushchev.
>>410423
> expanding all the way to the pacific? defense!
I never heard this one. Russia expanded to pacific like USA. Nobody relevant used the lands so they state colonized territory.
>>409998
And even if you work you will still not eat. Especially if you're Ukrainian.
What would Imperial Russia look like today?
>>411426
10/10 post
>>410423
soviet propaganda machine m8. russkis are fucked up in the head
Recommend books on Russian history? The imperial period more than anything.
everything
Starting from this picture, Nicholas is what was wrong.
>>410423
Truth is, the Americans are just butthurt that Russia wants a piece of the cake too. They're both aggressors who're "defending" against each other.
>>410754
If Peter doesn't do it, there is no Russia.
Just imagine if you were as primitive as the poles in 1935...
>>409951
>Before that, there was the somewhat naïve trust Stalin put in the Molotov-Ribbentrop treaty, which more or less resulted in the devastation of half of the European USSR.
That's a myth. Stalin never believed he could trust the Nazis.
>>410423
I love how you're making shit up and no russian has ever said any of those things. Go back to watching CNN you sheep.
>>410423
Yeah man, fuck those retarded expansionist Rooskies.
>>415815
>no russian has ever said any of those things
Just like no Russians were in the Crimea, right?
>>410837
>St Petersburg is within firing distance of the Finish border. Stalin offered to trade parts of Karelia for moving the finish border back from St Petersburg. Fuck the Balts anyway all Nazi Supporters.
You could always choose better place for building your capital city from scratch.
>Tried to save half of Poland everyone think you are bad guy.
I don't think murdering upper parts of society and sending rest to Siberia counts as "saving".
>>415815
>no Russian
Ever talked to one? They actually believe that shit.
>>409548
Degenerate fucking communists taking over.
>it doesn't matter who wins the civil war, the victor makes the history!
>>409548
should have let poles rule them instead of kicking them out, it would create a truly powerful slavic force
>>415912
>You could always choose better place for building your capital city from scratch.
When it was built it was in the Russian heartland don't forget that Finland was part of Russia back then.
>I don't think murdering upper parts of society and sending rest to Siberia counts as "saving".
Hmmm living safely in Siberia or under Nazi occupation ?
>>416781
>When it was built it was in the Russian heartland don't forget that Finland was part of Russia back then.
Check your facts, Finland was under Swedish control until 1809, Petersburg was founded hundred years earlier.
>Hmmm living safely in Siberia or under Nazi occupation ?
You mean working your ass like slaves in Siberia, often dying in progress? Truly a better fate than under nazi occupation.
>>416805
>Check your facts, Finland was under Swedish control until 1809, Petersburg was founded hundred years earlier.
Yes and no. Majority of Finland did remain under Swedish control however large swaths of it especially around St Petersburg were ceded to Russia.(Those parts were incorporated into the Grand Duchy when Russia gained control over Finland.)
>You mean working your ass like slaves in Siberia, often dying in progress? Truly a better fate than under nazi occupation.
Working hard yes. Like slaves defiantly not. Some of that work was defiantly dangerous like working in lumber camps but it was still 1000 times safer than being put against the wall by an SS firing squad.
>>410438
>the cats
>the magnets on the fridge
>>410518
name a successful pinko country that didn't fall
>>409548
Nicolas II waited too long to begin implementing political reforms. He was always reacting, never initiating change. By the time WWI came, it was long too late. He should have been able to tell that absolute monarchy had no future in Europe, and he could have developed a constitutional monarchy, and retained a lot of power and prestige. It wasn't as if Marxism was unknown in 1900. The various social reform movements were in full swing around the west, and Nicolas was too busy killing crows to notice, and leverage the changing ties for his and his country's benefit.
>>409998
That's actually a quote from the bible.
2 Thessalonians 3:10
ven while we were still there with you, we gave you this rule: “He who does not work shall not eat.”
>>418985
China and Cuba
>>419016
Yeah but most nordic countries are socialist not communist
>>409846
Sauce?
>the commies murdered Nicky and his qt daughters in cold blood
>>409548
monarchy.
then command economy.
then some deranged combination of both.
>>409548
Was there ever a time things went right?
