How come nothing of relevance ever happened here?
It seems like it has been "that backwater shithole" since the ancient greeks. Was it just being unlucky and always standing in the shadow of something better? I don't 'get' it or it's irrelevance.
Well Thrace was something, if that counts.
Also the only thing I know that happened was that the Bulgarians revolted against the Byzantine Empire for some time and then tried later on again but failed.
>>409279
>literally triggered a world war
>How come nothing of relevance ever happened here?
>>409286
It's a tradition for the balkans to start wars.
>Balkan wars
>World War I
>Byzanto-Bulgarian wars
>Russo-Turkish war
/balk/ mentioned, prepare for casual racism and to hear the history of my people.
>>409284
Thrace has two alleged achievements - the greeks saying there are many of them (second most numerous people after the indians, allegedly) and them being very rich on gold and being good at working with it (some gold treasures discovered, some greeks writing about it).
Overall not enough is known to call them great, and even what is known isnt all that impressive. They were civilized people, when being civilized and organized was a rarity in Europe, and thats that.
>>409286
The war was triggered by Bismarck's web of alliances being navigated by people who arent Bismarck and them failing to control it.
If it wasnt for the incompetent serbian terrorists, it would have been something else a couple of years later, to the same result.
>>409287
>Balkan wars
>Byzanto-Bulgarian wars
Regional conflicts, of course they started in the region.
>World War I
The one war you can mention that started in the Balkans and spread outside it.
>Russo-Turkish war
Have nothing to do with the Balkans, other than the last of them being fought here.
The place has seen much war, but almost all of it is regional stuff, between the people living here.
The Balkans havent had any influence on the rest of the world for around 500 years, I'd imagine.
And since the generous and wise administration of the Ottomans of the area ensured zero participation in the enlightenment, the renaissance, the colonization of the New World, the industrialization and the birth of nations, I doubt it will ever have any relevance. Its just too far back, and lacks the raw materials or raw manpower to make up for its backwardness.
If you ever read the book Rich dad, poor dad, its the same thing, on a national scale, and there is no cure in sight.
>>409332
Interesting, seeing how you must seen to be very well read on the subject, how did the Byzantines even manage to let Bulgaria survive for more than a century anyway?
>>409337
You will have to give more details. Which period are you talking about?
>>409341
Middle ages, from 7th to 11th century I believe?
![1450097755571[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Zj6CASe.jpg "1450097755571[1].jpg")
>>409343
Well for over half that period the Bulgar Kingdom just had a better army. The kingdom came into existence after military victories, then was expanded following other successful wars, and managed a couple of short sieges of Constantinople.
The only victories Byzantium got over them are when they combined their attacks with other nearby kingdoms.
The two big ones are the combined attack with the western slavs, sometimes called the Serbian Kingdom (although it isnt certain if such a thing existed or if it was a loose confederacy), which resulted in an unfavorable peace for the Bulgar Kingdom, and christianity being forced on them.
All the old Bulgar elite was killed because they refused to convert, and the country basically became a slavic one at that point, with most Bulgars having died in battles or in the purge following conversion.
The second was when Byzantium attacked together with whatever Russia was called at the time, Kievan Confederacy of the Rus or something, depending on what book you read.
The Bulgar armies made a deal with the Byzantine king, so that instead of the country being divided between the two conquerors, Bulgars and Byzantines will combine forces and attack the Rus and kick them out, and in exchange Byzantium gets the whole place, but it still retains some autonomy in religious and internal matters. And so it happened, and thats considered the end of the first Bulgar Kingdom.
When some time later there was a rebellion and the Bulgar Kingdom appeared on the map again, it wasnt too hard, since it retained much of its autonomy, including keeping some army.
Overall the situation can be examined thus: the Bulgar Kingdom and Byzantium fought against each other often, and pretty much every time whoever was also occupied elsewhere lost. They also fought as allies often, for example against the Rus, and against the Arabs.
>>409332
>The war was triggered by Bismarck's web of alliances being navigated by people who arent Bismarck and them failing to control it.
If it wasnt for the incompetent serbian terrorists, it would have been something else a couple of years later, to the same result.
Princip killed one of the mightiest people in the A-H empire, Franz Ferdinand was the one who stopped Conrad von Hötzendorf (A-H chief of staff) from going to war with serbia a lot of times. He also was in favour of more slavic influence in the A-H empire. Killing him was one of the dumbest things to do.
![1450095050572[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QdSeO4M.jpg "1450095050572[1].jpg")
>>409364
>Princip killed one of the mightiest people in the A-H empire, Franz Ferdinand was the one who stopped Conrad von Hötzendorf (A-H chief of staff) from going to war with serbia a lot of times.
>He also was in favour of more slavic influence in the A-H empire.
>Killing him was one of the dumbest things to do.
I never claimed otherwise, I am just saying that WWI was inevitable from the moment France and Russia became allies, and Germany was excluded from this alliance.
Thats when the fate of the continent was sealed.
>>409365
>I never claimed otherwise
I know, i just wanted to give some extra info. But a war might have been avoided some other way, you never know.
>>409365
>irag
fugggg :-D
![Kot-i-bliny-[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/nDI0hCT.jpg "Kot-i-bliny-[1].jpg")
>>409383
>there are people in Europe right now, being housed and fed from our taxes, that cant spell the name of their own country
>>409279
>Cyrillic script is used by several hundred millions of people and it was made in the Balkans.
>Christianization of Slavs started through Balkan Slavs.
>It's on the Balkans that dissolution of Ottoman empire began.
>Hussars were some of the widespread light cavalry formations in Europe, and they came from the Balkans.
>Supposedly, Balkans was one of the richest regions in Europe before Ottomans.
>Yugoslavia was the first communist country to give middle-finger to Moscow and was one of the founding members of non-aligned movement.
Most of the thing Balkan countries did on their own happened in Medieval period, when conflicts were more localized. Naturally, why would western Europeans learn about wars between Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks when at the same time there were Franco-English dynastic squabbles, reconquista in Iberia, internal shitfests in HRE and Mongols in Eastern Europe.
After the liberation of the Ottomans the Balkans was a region stuck in 15th century. It missed the renaissance, enlightenment and industrial revolution, it was impoverished because Ottomans took everything that could be taken and didn't develop the region and the newly founded states were small and powerless to be relevant on the world stage, so naturally nothing they did really left impression.
>>409457
we should welcome these future doctors and IT specialists. They will pay our pensions, take care of us and rienforce our democracies
>>409478
You really could mention the Minoans and the classic Greeks, as the whole of western civilization, philosophy, history and democracy started on the Balkans.
>>409512
>Reading comprehension
That said, thanks fellas.
>Balkans are irrelevant because of fucking turks
>>409279
I smell perplexed Turk.
>>409279
Besides what the others said, some Balkan countries were for a long time marches against Ottoman Empire, protecting Christian Europa from Muslim turkey.
>>409279
Diocletian, one of the best Roman emperors was from there and the whole visigothic migration fiasco took place in the balkans.
>>409478
>It's on the Balkans that dissolution of Ottoman empire began.
why would this be the case? The Ottomans lost their European territories but they still held a large amount of land in Asia
>>409478
>Christianization of Slavs started through Balkan Slavs.
Byzantines, actually (Salonica), but it counts as Balkans if you use the traditional, not OP's, definition of including Greece.
>Supposedly, Balkans was one of the richest regions in Europe before Ottomans.
Certain parts of it. But by the time the Ottomans started their Balkan annexations, Western Europe was starting to sail far ahead.
You're also overrating the impact the Ottomans had. It isn't like Bulgaria or the Serbian principalities were these shining beacons before that.
>>413807
Because when an army led by pig merchants beats your imperial army, others begin to think that maybe the empire's time has come.
Yes, they held the territory in Asia, but at that point even other Muslims, who were hardly opressed as much as Christians, wanted out.
>>414169
>It isn't like Bulgaria or the Serbian principalities were these shining beacons before that.
They were pretty wealthy and were close to Italy (Serbia was, at least) so the western influence was pretty strong. Ottomans isolated them from it and shackled the region in the mentality of the century it conquered them.
Western Europe did start to sail ahead but that was in great part because the kingdoms were spent (or were already conquered) fighting the Ottomans.
>>409478
Let's not forget the arab sieges of Constantinople, mainly the second as the more serious one (717–718), which is considered to be one of history's most important battles, as its failure postponed the Muslim advance into Southeastern Europe for centuries.
>>409279
>nice bait
>Greece literally Balkan Peninsula, enough said
>Roman Emperor Constantine, father of the European Christianity, born in present day Serbia
>being the cultural cradle of the slavic civilisation, cyrillic, slavic orthodox christianity, church-slavonic language (base for serbian, bulgarian, russian languages etc.)
>laboratory of european politics for ages, everything that happened in the balkans will hapen in europe some years after at a full scale (just watch those muslims run jihadi in the EU, as they went in Yugoslavia in the 90's)
nice bait though
>>409279
>nothing relevant ever happened here
>black hand
>>417917
>black hand
>relevant
Serbs...
>>409279
>What is the Bulgarian Empire
>>414169
>You're also overrating the impact the Ottomans had.
Daily reminder that his literacy census is from 1931, 70 years (literally 3 generations) after the Ottomans left and yet you can actually see the Ottoman/Austrian border.
>>418535
>Ottoman/Hungarian/Austrian border.
>>416591
You mean a failure of the Arabs to adequately bribe the Bulgars to help them out. One guy being cheap changed the history of mankind.
>>413807
>why would this be the case? The Ottomans lost their European territories but they still held a large amount of land in Asia
Because it was the Bulgarians, Greeks and Serbs who started fighting the Ottomans and made life a living hell for the Turks in the Balkans. There were constant uprisings, armed bands harassing and destroying entire units of Ottoman regulars with unproportionate losses on the Ottoman side. In the case of Macedonia all this happened without the help of Europe, and the people in Macedonia were largely left to themselves. It was four minor nations, Serbia, Greece, Bulgaria and Montenegro that defeated the Ottoman Empire. And pushed Islam back to Anatolia, not to mention with a little more luck the entire Aegean coast of Turkey would be Christian and Hagia Sophia would have been a church. The region spent 5 centuries fighting the Turks, living in absolute poverty and near slavery, Greeks who left the region because of the Ottomans helped usher in the renaissance. Not only did the westerners not help the people in the Balkans, they made it worse. The sack of Constantinopole by the Crusaders comes to mind, if there was a shred of solidarity or help from the West, Islam might have been stopped at the Bosphorus. The British and French literally saved the Ottoman Empire from collapse, had Russia one the entire Balkans would have been free and the City would be in Christian hands.
>>419832
Bulgarians, Greeks and Serbs did fight the Ottoman empire, by being uneducated and unproductive savages.
Serbs fought them even more directly, by not having any infrastructure, roads and bridges, and thus ruining the siege of Vienna by causing the Ottomans to lose a large portion of their army and all of their big sieging guns on the way there, in the mud and rivers and swamps.
Basically Balkan backwardness caused the stall of the Ottoman invasion of Europe. If they had invaded through Italy they could have possibly done much, much more damage.
The balkans are viced between four major points of power. Western, central, and Eastern Europe, and then the middle east.
The balkan nations lost the game their ancestors picked that spot to settle. Geography makes or breaks a nation before any shots are fired or laws passed. See Hungary, a powerful nation that had such shitty placement it's reduced to the shadow it is now. A long history of bad neighbors preceded the current situation.
>>419871
>restarting the game when you have a bad start
Casual.
>>419832
>if there was a shred of solidarity or help from the West
Well, there was the Crusade of Varna
>Venice
>Poland
>Hungary
>Croatia
>Bohemia
>Lithuania
>Serbia
>Wallachia
>Moldavia
>Bulgaria
>Holy >Roman >Empire
>Papal States and whoever served under them
>Teutonic Order
vs
>Ottoman Empire
>Decisive Ottoman victory
>>419837
>Bulgarians, Greeks and Serbs did fight the Ottoman empire, by being uneducated and unproductive savages.
>Serbs fought them even more directly, by not having any infrastructure, roads and bridges, and thus ruining the siege of Vienna by causing the Ottomans to lose a large portion of their army and all of their big sieging guns on the way there, in the mud and rivers and swamps.
>Basically Balkan backwardness caused the stall of the Ottoman invasion of Europe. If they had invaded through Italy they could have possibly done much, much more damage.
Wow why are you so mad? The Balkans was THE cultural point of Europe before the Ottomans, if anyone caused Balkan "backwardness" it was the Ottomans. Either way enjoy the progressive Mohamedan dick your daughters will suck.
>>409363
>All the old Bulgar elite was killed because they refused to convert, and the country basically became a slavic one at that point, with most Bulgars having died in battles or in the purge following conversion.
That's nonsense.
>The second was when Byzantium attacked together with whatever Russia was called at the time, Kievan Confederacy of the Rus or something, depending on what book you read.
The Bulgar armies made a deal with the Byzantine king, so that instead of the country being divided between the two conquerors, Bulgars and Byzantines will combine forces and attack the Rus and kick them out, and in exchange Byzantium gets the whole place, but it still retains some autonomy in religious and internal matters. And so it happened, and thats considered the end of the first Bulgar Kingdom.
From my understanding, the rus raided eastern bulgaria, then the byzantines chased the rus out but took the eastern bulgarian lands for themselves, but in the west bulgaria continued to exist under the kometopuli dynasty for a few more decades until it was conquered by basil ii.
>>419837
Reminder that the Balkans were lightyears ahead of turks and mudslimes before the turks fucked the balkans up.
>>421976
Balkan resurgence when
Because invaded by ass backward shitskins for over 500 years.
>>409279
Trajan took them over. That was a major economic turning point in Roman history: 'outside money' could no longer just be brought into the system by force.
>>419837
Turks were so retarded they took their culture from Persians and let Balkanites run everything for them. What are you talking about?
>>422009
>Balkan resurgence when
>Balkan
When you stop using that stupid scum turkish name. The peninsula is known as Haemus or Haemus Mons, before the fucking Turks put their shit stains on it and named it Balkans, then some Italian goatfucker spread it throughout Europe.
The Dacian Kingdoms were something until Trajan destroyed them.
But Eastern Europe was the first place to get fucked over by mass migrations throughout Ancient History. There was simply no stability in the region to allow the growth of a larger and more unified civilization.
>>419946
whats wrong with balkan girls sucking our progressive cocks?
>>409457
Irak is written عراق in their language, and the ق is an unholy gargle sound closer to g than k or q (despite often being transliterated as q).
>>422630
q in the International Phonetic Alphabet means exactly that unholy gargle sound. (Also, it’s made without vibrating the vocal chords, so it’s still closer to k than g.)
>>419759
>TRI MORETA
I don't know what this means
>>423188
Three seas
>>422906
I know but I seriously doubt that your average refugee does, and normally in english a q sounds just like a k.
And vocal cords aside to my ears the ق very well could be written as a gh.
>>409365
>Killing him was one of the dumbest things to do.
Have you considered the fact that Princip WANTED the war? He didn't want "more Slavic influence in the A-H". He wanted A-H destroyed.
>>417902
Are you implying that it was because of Bosnians that the war began?
>>418535
It's just like Poland
Very clear split between what was German and what wasn't.
>>422906
not all the time in the Iraqi dialect. It can be pronounced as a straight-up "g" sound most of the time. Egyptians and Syrians usually don't pronounce the q, and Gulf people/Yemenis do God-knows-what with it in their respective dialects. I fucking hate hearing "Irak" being pronounced by the anchorwomen on al-Jazeera, sounds like they're choking on cum and I know they don't have to pronounce it like that, they just wanna sound smart and all MSA-like...
btw, Persian speakers usually pronounce ق and غ the same way, kinda like >>423209 mentioned
