You're a General/king in command od a successor kingdom army. The Romans are coming, What reforms to troop type and formation do you make without alienating your proud Hellenic troops?
>>408028
Beg Persian and other Iranian nobles to create an elite heavy cavalry and missile troops for my army assuming if Seleucid.
>Make the longest phalanx the world has ever seen
>Literally unable to be flanked
Now I am become death, destroyer of worlds
>>408263
>maintaining formation during a turn when you're commanding a 2-mile-wide phalanx
ughhhhhhh
run straight at them
>>408276
>be Roman
>see a bunch of boy-loving Greek scum charging me with that stupid phalanx shit
>march backwards up a rocky hill
>laugh cruelly as Greek lines break and gaps appear in the formation
>order a counter attack as maniples engage the breaking 1 line deep Hoplite/Phalangite lines
>Raze Corinth afterwards
>>408028
Try to do what Selucids attempted and train several hundred men similar to the way legionnaires were trained. Mantain a heavy focus on the hammer and anvil, but use these Hellenic legionnaires as a flexible second line to reinforce breaches in the line.
Additionally, run harsher and more frequent drills, with a regiment of hiking, marching, even weight training.
Finally I would place an emphasis on signaling and the methods of communication between officers, lieutenants, etc.
Will probably still get rekt but at least we'd have a better shot depending on where and when we fight the Romans
>>408359
Doing it wrong.
>>408114
Doing it right.
>>408275
>2 mile phalanx at only 8 ranks
Only 28,160 Hoplites. Totally doable.
>>408028
Train hoplites to function in smaller formations of say 200 or 400.
Stack hoplites on my left flank (where they are strongest and offer the best protection) about 3 times as deep as my phalangite phalanx.
Last row of each hoplite formation gets a phalangite shield rather than aspis, and they push but do not engage with spears. They form a slightly more manoeuvrable and close quarters rear guard. In the event of a flanking action they would disengage from the phalanx and defend it's flank or rear.
>3 times as deep you say?
Yes. And each formation after the first would move left and forward to extend the left flank, at the discretion of the commander. Ultimate goal is to encircle the Roman's right, or at least hold is long enough for phalangites to break the middle
>but how will the hoplites and phalangites coordinate, with their disparate spear lengths?
Hoplites advance enough so that their right flank is defended by a wall of spears. As long as the phalangites do not retreat, you have a flexible and nigh-unbreakable left flank and an anvil in the center.
>but the right flank of the army, and the phalangites!
Same deal, but I would mass my peltasts on the right as an auxiliary do strengthen the rear/flank. Hoplites are ideally suited to flanking the enemies left (your right), but better at defending from their right (your left). This way you can encircle either of their flanks and allow the main phalanx to grind into them.
Cav strike with discretion.
>>408379
I would actually at a 9th row, for those rear guard hoplites.
Peltasts would obviously need some training so as to not break and run in the face of a melee.
Open the battle with peltasts firing exclusively on the left and right flanks, before they withdraw and the forces contact. Then they'd reform on the right.
This is to either 1) inflict losses on those flanks we're looking to encircle or 2) limit the effectiveness of those troops by sticking giant sticks in their shields
>>408322
>greeks are between you and where you need to be
>locals under their hegemony are now attacking your supply lines
They fought they way they did for a reason.
>>408359
>Try to do what Selucids attempted and train several hundred men similar to the way legionnaires were trained.
Imiation legions were not a real thing.
Men with large body shields fighting in looser order were a natural result in a shift in tactics that occurred before the Macedonians stopped using hoplies, and was hastened by encounters with the celts, who left a serious impression on the hellenes when they invaded.
>>408379
>Stack hoplites on my left flank (where they are strongest and offer the best protection) about 3 times as deep as my phalangite phalanx.
3*16=48
Are you TRYING to get outflanked?
>last row gets a pahlangnite shield
So they get something what's widely acknowledged to have been too small to be of any use outside of its intended tole?
You realize that greeks sent men to engage out of formation witht he aspis, right? It's a very capable shield in or out of phalanx. The Macedonian shield is not, by nature of size and how it is worn.
On top of this, hellenic powers had soldiers available who were better for fighting in loose order anyway, be they thureoporoi, or hired galatians, beloved of selucids and dirty fucking egpytians alike.
>>408028
I'm not a general. tbqh senpai I'd probably just go for a Cannae formation and see if they were dumb enough to fall for it again.
>>408028
Write a will leaving my kingdom to Roma, fake my death and go live decadently in Palmyra.
>>408560
That formation is suicidal. Hannibals brother tried it in spain, the romans smashed the center and crushed much of his army.
They nearly did the same at cannae. That battle was a much closer thing than people realize.
>>408604
Dope
>>408028
Hire Horsefuckers to ride circles around the Romans
>Without alienating proud Greek Hellenic troops.
Send the more stubborn ones off on holiday on a beach proming a gay sex orgy.
>>408028
I actually use my cavalry, and make sure its for something other than steal Roman pots and pans
but seriously, bolster the light infantry that supports the flanks for the phalanx and make sure my cavalry arm is up to snuff.
If I control Macedon proper I'm probably in trouble though. The only way to win here is through good diplomacy
Knowing what I know now?
1) Train my phalangites to maneuver and fight the way Alexander's did - That is, the Sarissa is only one of their weapons. Arm them with proper swords and instruct them in close combat fighting. I have no doubt they can match a legionaire at any rate, but the point of this is to now let the line collapse completely until I can fill it with lighter troops - like in Alexander's army.
2) Adopt the Roman system of rotation. Train my first row phalangites how to raise their sarissa and slip back in the lines. DO THIS AFTER EACH PILUM VOLLEY.
3) Keep Thurephoroi and other light infantry armed for close combat in reserve to fill in any gaps. Arm Thurephoroi with short stabbing swords instead of spears - in effect making them imitation legionaires.
4) Hire Scythian and Parthian mercenaries. I cannot beat the romans in an infantry fight but I sure as shit can beat them in a cavalry fight. Have my horse archers kill as many roman cavalry as they can before retreating then send in the Seleucid heavy cavalry. I'm assuming the romans have Numidian Auxiliaries so have my horse archers deal with those first so that my heavy cav don't have to worry about them.
5) Keep the Elephants out of it.
6) Beat their cav and flank them with my cavalry, mercenaries and Thurephoroi.
>>408770
>I have no doubt they can match a legionaire at any rate
That should read CAN'T match. My mistake.
