>sister asks me if I subscribe to any philosophy
>tell her I'm a secular humanist
>she laughs and says that's the absolute worst philosophy there is, even Islam is more respectable
Safe to say my sister is an irrational person?
Your sister sounds like a pretentious cunt but then again most secular humanists are as well
I think both of you ought to kill yourselves
>>406527
Not worse than islam.
But secular humanism is garbage tier.
>>406527
>secular humanist
>>406527
Does she browse /pol/?
That sounds like something a /pol/tard would say.
>>406534
why tho
>>406539
No, but I do. I literally posted this on /pol/ too, but they were retarded and gave unconstructive responses.
>>406548
>mentioning you're a humanist on 4chan
you asked for it
>>406534
>>406535
>posts zero argument and memes
>>406553
That's victim blaming, you cis piece of shit.
>>406527
Safe to say she doesn't know what a secular humanist is, either that or she's a sadist.
>>406527
>secular humanism
I see you're a fan of r/kekold.
>>406555
trips speak truth
>>406603
>When she was a little girl, she once pulled down my pants while I was sleeping and stuck a pin in my dick.
Was that when you learned there is no God?
I guess it's the way you put it. Next time just touch on subjects and say something to the lines of 'I've been fascinated by the...' etc. Attempt to be gentle.
Your sister sounds based
>>406527
>she laughs and says that's the absolute worst philosophy there is, even Islam is more respectable
Your sister sounds pretty cool, frankly.
>>406555
Holy shit, the euphoric arrogance in that quote is palpable.
>implying nihilism isn't the way to go
Just detach yourself from the everyday struggle and embrace the irrelevance of anything senpai.
>>406555
That's not an argument, that is a baseless claim that he is right. It's really sad that /his/ has already turned into baiting the board thanks to posters like you.
>>406610
She's actually a very religious Burkean now, even though our whole family is liberal and atheistic. She hates liberals and calls them wigs.
>>406726
Haha, is your sister a neoreactionary? Srsly, ask her if she's read "Mencius Moldbug".
>>406726
whoa
>>406603
Man some sisters are just screwed up. When I was sleeping she used to punch me in the dick and sometimes even try to touch and suck it at one point. I'm starting to think she's a psycho or some shit. Once I said jokingly "mom is going to kill me" and then she said in a horrifyingly detailed way of why she wanted to see my dead corpse, because she wanted to see how a head separated from a body looks like. One day I'll find myself awake in a cellar underground being sexually tortured by her I bet.
>>406729
No, she's more of a communitarian.
>>406695
>Holy shit, the euphoric arrogance in that quote is palpable.
>thinking you know what the creator of the universe wants better than anyone else who tried to figure that out
>humble
>thinking you don't
>arrogant
>>406527
Post pics or she doesn't exist
>>406735
This is starting to sound like fetish fuel you wrote yourself.
>>406758
Then she doesn't exist, because I'm not posting pictures of my sister on 4chan
>>406747
I can't parse your text, but I'll assume it's some sort of straw man.
>>406775
Why is saying you don't know the mind of the creator of the universe more arrogant than saying you DO?
>>406783
>Why is saying you don't know the mind of the creator of the universe more arrogant than saying you DO?
It isn't. What argument do you think I have presented?
>>406761
I'm not him and it's not just fetish fuel. But yeah I'll admit I did get a boner when she tried to suck my dick but I felt absolutely horrible afterwards and didn't like it myself, although my dick totally did.
>>406811
You posted that Tim Minchin's quote was euphoric and arrogant.
So you'll have to explain how stating that you don't know the creator of the universe is more arrogant than stating that you do (not that people who believe in it stop there, they also know what the creator wants better than anyone else who tries to find out).
>>406555
>atheist
>critical thinker
Autism inhibits non-concrete thinking, which explains why most atheists fail to understand theological concepts and allegories.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2039690/Atheism-autism-Controversial-new-study-points-link-two.html
>>406841
So if one understood theological concepts one wouldn't be an atheist?
>>406829
>So you'll have to explain how stating that you don't know the creator of the universe is more arrogant than stating that you do
...Why? Stating that you aren't knowledgeable about a certain topic is never arrogant.
>>406841
Is Atheist = Autist the hot new meme or what?
Because I'd really like to be able to say that I don't subscribe to any extent theistic belief system without people flinging that shit at me.
>>406853
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/psyched/201205/does-autism-lead-atheism
>>406853
It has been for a while. What do you think the fedora thing is?
>>406852
But Tim Minchin was being arrogant? As well as every member of every religion other than yours?
>>406848
>So if one understood theological concepts one wouldn't be an atheist?
They could.
However, I daresay that they would not be so arrogant about their disbelief. One would probably also have more respect for the ideas posed by religion. I daresay they'd be more spiritualistic in such a case.
>>406853
If the majority of atheists were not so pompous with their disbelief and actually took the time to analyze the philosophy that arises from religion, then they probably would not have such a reputation.
>>406858
I more meant, now that people have legitimate sources that link the two, theists are just gonna start calling anyone with an atheist view autists instead of having actual arguments aren't they?
That said >>406857 this simultaneously implicates atheists with being autists but also any notion of god with being a common psychological phenomenon. So whatever.
>>406873
>They could.
>However, I daresay that they would not be so arrogant about their disbelief. One would probably also have more respect for the ideas posed by religion. I daresay they'd be more spiritualistic in such a case.
In what way are they arrogant in their disbelief?
Why do ideas put forward by religion deserve special respect?
How do you know they AREN'T more spirtualistic?
>>406877
Maybe god just doesn't like autists?
>>406603
>When she was a little girl, she once pulled down my pants while I was sleeping and stuck a pin in my dick. But since then she hasn't seemed particularly sadistic
Well it's something wrong with her if she think the religion that spawned ISIS is more respectable than a worldview with the radical notions that democracy is a good thing and that the human life has a value.
Ought to stone her if she's such a theist-lover.
>>406871
>But Tim Minchin was being arrogant?
The guy explicitly states that he knows better than pretty much everyone who isn't a "humanist", which is pretty damn arrogant. His tone is also arrogant, and the second sentence doesn't negate that.
>As well as every member of every religion other than yours?
I'm an atheist. What's this about everyone else being arrogant?
>>406893
More to do with autisms not being able to have imaginary friends. So the concept of God seems bizarre to a lot of them.
>>406883
>In what way are they arrogant in their disbelief?
Refer to:>>406555
>Why do ideas put forward by religion deserve special respect?
I never said they have to be respected. I am simply saying one is more likely to analyze and understand the principles of religion(s), and thus not be so averse to them.
>How do you know they AREN'T more spirtualistic?
Most spiritualists I have dealt with acknowledge the existence of a higher power in not just their life, but everyone's lives. This higher power can literally be anything: a deity, the universe, oneself, etc.
Most atheists seem to completely reject such a notion. Most, however, bask in their supposed "critical thinking", while also giving into degenerative desires. One could argue that their pride and/or desires serves as their higher power.
Note: not all atheists are like this. Most internet atheists, however, are.
>>406904
>The guy explicitly states that he knows better than pretty much everyone who isn't a "humanist", which is pretty damn arrogant. His tone is also arrogant, and the second sentence doesn't negate that.
So he makes the same statement that every religious person makes. Without also stating that he has privileged access to gods mind, as most religious people do.
>I'm an atheist. What's this about everyone else being arrogant?
>other than yours
Other than ones. Every member of every religion claims the same kind of knowledge as Minchin, and additionally that they have special knowledge denied to members of every other religion than theirs.
>>406929
>Refer to:>>406555
He wasn't being arrogant. Of if you insist that he was, he wasn't being any more arrogant than every religious or theistic person.
>I never said they have to be respected. I am simply saying one is more likely to analyze and understand the principles of religion(s), and thus not be so averse to them.
What makes you think atheist don't do this? You can't mean that atheists are wrong to disagree, can you?
>Most spiritualists I have dealt with acknowledge the existence of a higher power in not just their life, but everyone's lives. This higher power can literally be anything: a deity, the universe, oneself, etc.
>Most atheists seem to completely reject such a notion. Most, however, bask in their supposed "critical thinking", while also giving into degenerative desires. One could argue that their pride and/or desires serves as their higher power.
If you accepted that notion, you wouldn't be an atheist. So you're saying a person can't be spiritual and atheist?
>higher power
Come on.
>>406910
Is there anything in your life that inspires awe into you? Is there any entity or force that motivates you? Do you see this entity/force as being important to the existence of everything?
>>406939
>So he makes the same statement that every religious person makes.
[citation needed]
>Without also stating that he has privileged access to gods mind, as most religious people do.
[citation needed]
> Every member of every religion claims the same kind of knowledge as Minchin, and additionally that they have special knowledge denied to members of every other religion than theirs.
[citation needed]
"[F]or I know that I have no wisdom, small or great." - Socrates
>>406929
Woah watch out, this guy is throwing out anecdotal evidence at a level I didn't think was possible!
Though, if we're going to be doing that, I may as well offer my own perspective on the matter.
I find those particularly arrogant atheists fall into one of two streams, either those socially rejected in largely in communities where spirituality is a non-issue or those raised in oppressively religious communities.
In one case, atheism is something cling to and gain some amount of community from. It's like how social deficients are more often those that obsess over fandom, it's something they can be sure of and cling to in their mastery so they don't feel as shitty about themselves. In the other case, it's an act of rebellion against something they see as oppressive or evil. Oftentimes yeah, they're the people that it never quite clicked with but it could also just have been bad experiences with religious figures. In this case they like rubbing it in peoples faces because it's like rubbing it in the face of the boogeyman of an earlier part of their life.
>>406975
He's not wrong though. To subscribe to a religious body one has to make the decision, conscious or otherwise, that it is correct and all others are wrong.
Theoretically one could say that it's just the one they personally agree with most, but it's still a discounting of every other school of thought as incorrect.
>>406988
>but it's still a discounting of every other school of thought as incorrect.
Except it obviously isn't.
>>406939
>So he makes the same statement that every religious person makes
That's not true. The sooner you stop making these unfounded assumptions the sooner you can gain a more well rounded understanding of the world and the people around you. People having faith in their beliefs is not the same as them claiming to know better than everyone. Having faith and claiming to have 100% unshakeable knowledge in something is very different. Sure their are plenty of religious who say that they know everything (like creationists) but don't act like it is somehow 100% inherent to religious people.
>>406975
>>So he makes the same statement that every religious person makes.
>[citation needed]
>>Without also stating that he has privileged access to gods mind, as most religious people do.
>[citation needed]
>> Every member of every religion claims the same kind of knowledge as Minchin, and additionally that they have special knowledge denied to members of every other religion than theirs.
>[citation needed]
Are you really saying religious people don't think and say that they're right?
>"[F]or I know that I have no wisdom, small or great." - Socrates
How does this apply to religious people? They don't claim to know anything, they just act like they do?
>>407003
Are you really saying that religious people don't think they're right when they claim that god exists?
>>406961
>He wasn't being arrogant
I was referring to the quote in the picture.
>What makes you think atheist don't do this? You can't mean that atheists are wrong to disagree, can you?
1. I have yet to see an atheist claims that he/she admires the story of Jesus, or agree with Buddha's ideas on enlightenment.
2. They're definitely not wrong if they disagree. However, most of them aren't truly disagreeing. They argue with an extremely biased position that fails to take into account the more spiritual and allegorical aspects of religion. Thus, they are consistent with believing that religious texts are "storybooks", and not poetic ways of describing human nature.
>If you accepted that notion, you wouldn't be an atheist. So you're saying a person can't be spiritual and atheist?
Yes.
I suggest you watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hsilv172io
>>407008
I believe this is correct=/I know everyone else is wrong
>>406966
>Is there anything in your life that inspires awe into you?
m8 you just need to have a look around you to see what an awe-inspiring world we live in, but I don't really know what that has to do with anything. I just said what the research said.
>>407016
Then you'll have to explain.
You aren't saying that atheists are more arrogant than religious people?
You are just saying that you don't like the way Tim Minchin stated his beliefs?
She's overboard in saying that it's the worst philosophy, but humanity and morality are just replacement gods.
>>407024
>m8 you just need to have a look around you to see what an awe-inspiring world we live in
The world is your higher power then.
>>407018
>1. I have yet to see an atheist claims that he/she admires the story of Jesus, or agree with Buddha's ideas on enlightenment.
Well you're seeing it now. Though I don't entirely believe in either of those things, because I don't totally believe in the morals each group espouses.
>2. They're definitely not wrong if they disagree. However, most of them aren't truly disagreeing. They argue with an extremely biased position that fails to take into account the more spiritual and allegorical aspects of religion. Thus, they are consistent with believing that religious texts are "storybooks", and not poetic ways of describing human nature.
I don't think the majority of religious people believe that anon.
>>407018
>I was referring to the quote in the picture.
Go on.
More arrogant than saying, as every Christian must, that they know that Jesus is the son of god?
>1. I have yet to see an atheist claims that he/she admires the story of Jesus, or agree with Buddha's ideas on enlightenment.
Then you haven't met a lot of atheists.
>2. They're definitely not wrong if they disagree. However, most of them aren't truly disagreeing. They argue with an extremely biased position that fails to take into account the more spiritual and allegorical aspects of religion. Thus, they are consistent with believing that religious texts are "storybooks", and not poetic ways of describing human nature.
They are disagreeing. You cannot both believe that Jesus is the son of god, and that Jesus is definitely not the son of god, at the same time. You cannot believe there is only one god, and that there are many gods, at the same time.
>Yes.
>a person can't be spiritual and atheist at the same time
Then you're wrong.
>>407019
Yes it does.
If you believe that Jesus is the son of god, don't you think that everyone who isn't a Christian is wrong?
>>407008
>>407026
>Are you really saying that religious people don't think they're right when they claim that god exists?
The anon couldn't be making his (and my) point any clearer.
>You aren't saying that atheists are more arrogant than religious people?
I'm not saying anything of the sort; do you see me quoting any empirical studies about arrogance?
>You are just saying that you don't like the way Tim Minchin stated his beliefs?
I'm saying that the quote is extremely arrogant, in assuming that he is 100% right and everyone who isn't a humanist is 100% wrong.
>>407046
>Yes it does.
"Believing" and "knowing" are two different words, retard.
Your sister sounds like a bro, and she's right tbqh.
>secular humanist
boring tbqh
>>407053
>"Believing" and "knowing" are two different words, retard.
Not for a lot of people, a majority even.
Well, this thread wasn't up to much, anyway. I'm gonna go and re-read Burke's treatise on aesthetics.
>>407066
[citation needed]
>>407071
See: Any religious extremist, the bible belt, my entire family in-law.
>>407046
>If you believe that Jesus is the son of god, don't you think that everyone who isn't a Christian is wrong?
Not really. Maybe a couple hundred years ago you could make that claim. But when the Pope himself says non Christians can get into heaven I think that says a lot. You can hold a personal belief without thinking everyone who holds a different opinion or belief is categorically wrong.
>>406548
>posted this on /pol/
>they were retarded and gave unconstructive responses.
Why did you expect any different?
>>407079
>a majority even.
[citation needed]
Nice anecdotes too, plebeian.
I'm out.
>>407079
So we've gone from all religious people to just extremists? Doesn't that make Timmy the equivalent of a religious extremist by your logic? Letting the voices of a few cloud your judgment of 7 billion people is a little silly.
>>407053
>The anon couldn't be making his (and my) point any clearer.
You really aren't.
>I'm not saying anything of the sort; do you see me quoting any empirical studies about arrogance?
>I'm saying that the quote is extremely arrogant, in assuming that he is 100% right and everyone who isn't a humanist is 100% wrong.
He was stating his beliefs.
Should he make pains to let the reader know that he believes that any other belief is just as likely to be true? Is this what religious people do when they say that Jesus is the son of god? They say that it's just as likely to not be so?
Or should he state his beliefs clearly, assuming that we can read into it that evidence of the existence of god would change his mind?
>"Believing" and "knowing" are two different words, retard.
Hey, it's not me who is trying to confuse them.
>>407083
Is the Pope saying that he believes that Jesus is both the son of god and not the son of god?
>>407095
I can't source it because the majority of people who believe express it as just that. When one believes wholeheartedly in something, theism or atheism, it can be extremely difficult to show them that opposing schools of thought have any merit.
Frankly, the a large number of people are incapable of thinking critically about their own beliefs, again atheist or theist.
People kill for religion even today, and I will again speak in anecdotes, but I know people who cut off all social ties with people they would have otherwise been friends with because of their beliefs.
If that's not "knowing" you're right, I don't know what is.
>>406527
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM4xOBUWywI&list=PLE09CDE7AF4F236B0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2VJkJuheZA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygzh713TQn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEVD1qliHzI
Your sister is actually right, you have an arbitrary starting point looking for something that isn't there in the way that a man gauges out his eyes to look at them.
You answer no questions, you give Man nothing, you detract from the value of Humanity as a whole.
"The more I love Humanity the more I hate Man"
>>406555
Legitimately being fanatical to the point of
>I'm right your wrong just because
To put it simply, you are an irrational fedora who will abuse Reason and refuse to see when they are the problem.
>>407105
No, obviously not. They're just the most obvious example of people whose "belief" is really actually them wholeheartedly knowing what they subscribe to is correct.
The majority of people that go to church on Sunday and praise the Lord don't doubt for a second what they're doing might be incorrect, because they KNOW God is listening to their prayers.
>>407118
What is the point of this rhetorical question exactly.
>>407146
I'm trying to find out if the Pope is as arrogant as Tim Minchin.
I'm just assuming the Pope believes that Jesus is the son of god. Do you think I can find a quote where he says something along those lines?
Now, how does he have to phrase his belief that Jesus is the son of god so that it isn't arrogance?
What should Tim Minchin have added or omitted to his quote above to make it not arrogant, while still being an honest statement of his beliefs?
>>407145
>The majority of people that go to church on Sunday and praise the Lord don't doubt for a second what they're doing might be incorrect, because they KNOW God is listening to their prayers.
See this is an example of taking a personal belief (in this case an assumption about a huge group of people) and stating it as a fact. These are things you cannot know for certain. In fact considering the very nature of faith it seems very unlikely that all these people are blind zealots.
If you cannot even entertain the idea of these people being the same as me and you with doubts and worries and not unthinking automatons who think without question then I'm afraid there is nothing left to discuss. It's clear you got burned by stupid people but you really shouldnt project those personal experiences on 7 billion people. At best you're right but stooping down to their level in terms of thought. At worst you're completely wrong about them. But hey man, I guess it's just your opinion.
>>406527
>i'm a secular humanist
>>407189
>What should Tim Minchin have added or omitted to his quote above to make it not arrogant, while still being an honest statement of his beliefs?
He should have said " I don't believe in a higher power and I don't follow the dogma of any organized religion." Full stop.
>>407227
Tell me how the Pope should phrase his belief that Jesus is the son of god and the Catholic Church is the true church so as not to sound arrogant.
>>406735
post pics of your sister?
>>407213
>1 seat
>>407046
>More arrogant than saying, as every Christian must, that they know that Jesus is the son of god?
You can't really "know" that.
However, a better way to see it is this:
Jesus is the Messiah who sacrificed Himself for our sins and His teachings of humility and charity should be followed = Jesus may or may not have actually died on the cross (I believe He did), but his teachings of humility and charity seem like they would create a good society if followed so I'll follow His teachings
>You cannot both believe that Jesus is the son of god, and that Jesus is definitely not the son of god, at the same time. You cannot believe there is only one god, and that there are many gods, at the same time.
What does this have to do with anything
>Then you're wrong.
If you accept the universe or existence in itself as a higher power, then you aren't an atheist.
>>407243
Okay then "I believe that Jesus Chirst is the Son of God and the Virgin Mother, sent to earth to sacrifice himself to absolve our sins also I am a member of the Roman Catholic church and adhere to most if not all of their modern dogma."
>>407270
>You can't really "know" that.
People seem to know it enough to devote their life to it.
>Jesus is the Messiah who sacrificed Himself for our sins and His teachings of humility and charity should be followed = Jesus may or may not have actually died on the cross (I believe He did), but his teachings of humility and charity seem like they would create a good society if followed so I'll follow His teachings
Arrogance.
>If you accept the universe or existence in itself as a higher power, then you aren't an atheist.
Yes. So you define spiritual as belief in a higher power?
>>407274
This sounds arrogant.
So he's saying that he thinks I'm wrong when I don't believe that Jesus is the son of god? Like Tim Minchin is saying that religious people are wrong?
>>407279
>People seem to believe it enough to devote their life to it.
Fixed that for you.
Mark Rippetoe believes that one shouldn't consider oneself to be a man if one is not 200 pounds. He devotes his time teaching this to people who buy his book and look to him for strength training advice. Does he actually "know" that?
>Arrogance.
How
>So you define spiritual as belief in a higher power?
In a way, yes.
I daresay that spiritualists believe that there is more to our existence than just existence itself. The spirit's existence being distinct from our own existence could lead to the argument that the spirit's existence is beyond our full comprehension. As such, it could be argued that the realm of the spirit is, in a way, a higher power.
Atheists, on the other hand, reject all notions of there being anything beyond our "plane" of existence.
>>407321
>So he's saying that he thinks I'm wrong
But this is not happening. For one that's a quote I made up so I can assure you I wasn't saying you were wrong for holding atheist beliefs in any capacity. If the Pope said that he wouldn't be saying that either. Just look at the quote it literally (and I mean literally) does not say that. For whatever reason when you read or hear "I believe this" you are adding "and I know you are wrong". Which is simply an assumption. And in this case definitely not an assumption that lines up with reality. Because I know I didn't mean or even imply those things with my words.
>>406527
Your sister is based. You should listen to her.
>>407362
>Mark Rippetoe believes that one shouldn't consider oneself to be a man if one is not 200 pounds. He devotes his time teaching this to people who buy his book and look to him for strength training advice. Does he actually "know" that?
So his belief that men should be 200 pounds is just as arbitrary as the belief that Jesus is the son of god?
>How
You are saying that you believe that Jesus is the son of god. So you're saying that almost everyone in the world is wrong to not believe it. Or are you saying they're just as likely to be right about Jesus as you are?
>>406901
Only a retard would think democracy is a good thing though
>>407399
>So his belief that men should be 200 pounds is just as arbitrary as the belief that Jesus is the son of god?
My point is that religious beliefs should be treated more as philosophical concepts.
>You are saying that you believe that Jesus is the son of god. So you're saying that almost everyone in the world is wrong to not believe it. Or are you saying they're just as likely to be right about Jesus as you are?
Is a follower of Socrates wrong to a follower of Emerson?
I may see my beliefs as superior to theirs, but I am still reasonable about it. I also will not flat out say "my beliefs are better than yours". After all, I have trouble following my own beliefs.
>>407442
What's better senpai?
Why do religious people always fuck up by saying that because religion is useful that means it's true?
I can see the value in some of the practices of Christianity. I don't have to believe in the supernatural to arrive at that conclusion.
>>406527
Secular humanism is the most introcore philosohy there is. You're dumb and your Sister is smart.
>this thread
>>407384
I think you're more right than the other fellow, but I do see where he's coming from.
Many would argue that for proper piety or religious devotion, an adherent must wholly reject all other possible beliefs not completely in line with their own. Although you're right that semantically, the religious person isn't saying that he thinks someone else is wrong. However, it is implied that the religious person does hold self-professed knowledge that the other is wrong.
Just tryna maybe make you see his viewpoint a little more. I think the other fellow doesn't have a properly objective view towards religion, and instead is quite biased against it. I could be very wrong!
>>408762
>>408762
>However, it is implied that the religious person does hold self-professed knowledge that the other is wrong.
I feel that goes without saying. People have inherent biases, when they have accepted a belief they usually act much more dismissive toward people with a perceived opposite view point. Do religious people think they're right? Of course. Does that mean that they think people who aren't religous are wrong for thinking so? I mean probably, but of course that doesn't mean they go around claiming that everyone else is wrong and completely turn off the objective parts of their brain. There is a difference not in thought but in scale and self awareness. And that last bit makes all the difference.
>>407042
Are you smokin crack. The world is your higher power. Fuckin a. The things I read.
Secularism is political position. It is barely even a philosophy by itself. Humanism is more legit than Islam at least if we going by quality or arguments. There are plenty of Islam schools that into rational discussion but they aren't very popular nowadays. Today humanism is very stale philosophy without legitimately new thoughts, ideas and discussions so real philosophers doesn't really interested in it.
>>409025
>Secularism is political position.
Isn't secularism more a metaphysical position opposed to spirituality, mysticism, and religion?
>>406975
If you are willing a quote from one person as citation then surely u can find the citations at /pol/
>>409039
Secularism is about separation of religion and government. Metaphysical position that opposed to spirituality, mysticism, and religion is better described as naturalism.
>>409065
Oh I see, I've always conflated the two for some reason
>>409065
I'd call it materialism
>>406762
Faggot
