Can someone explain ''Independent agencies of the United States government'' to me?
>More specifically, the term may be used to describe agencies that, while constitutionally part of the executive branch, are independent of presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited.
How does this work? The relationship between the CIA and the US government? I find this really interesting.
The CIA is really powerful is all. It went from being the President's hand abroad to being the hand around America's own throat. It's an organization tasked with doing the most illegal and/or evil shit the US is capable of. It has a lot of power.
>>406090
Tell me more
>>406078
What's more interesting is the American taxpayer has zero input or control over the CIA despite paying for everything that isn't funded by counterfeit currency
The CIA is basically an oozing black tumor that has convinced us that it's responsible for keeping us healthy
I have this feeling that whoever is elected president, no matter what you promise on the campaign trail – blah, blah, blah – when you win, you go into this smoke-filled room with the head of the CIA and the twelve industrialist capitalist scum-fucks who got you in there. And you're in this smoky room, and this little film screen comes down … and a big guy with a cigar goes, "Roll the film." And it's a shot of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you've never seen before … that looks suspiciously like it's from the grassy knoll. And then the screen goes up and the lights come up, and they go to the new president, CIA - "Any questions?"
Pres - "Er, just what my agenda is."
CIA - "First we bomb Baghdad."
Pres - "You got it …"
I can't watch TV longer than 5 minutes without praying for nuclear holocaust.
>>406239
>He thinks there's a shadow government
Idiot
>>406181
Well Iran-Contra was their brainchild. They trained the Mujahideen. They also made a porn with a guy that looked like the Indonesian president but never reaeased it; they also had planned to do the same with Saddam and Osama.
>>406252
Yeah cause something like that could never happen, especially not in the good ole US of A
>>406078
Basically the CIA is not accountable to any other agency or any real degree of oversight. In addition, their leadership positions are appointed, not elected. The CIA wields considerable influence over foreign policy because they can carry out covert operations in other countries.
Guys, guys, guys. I understand that they are powerful but is there anyone who directs them, like outside the agency. If even the President have limited power over them... idk. Can someone actually explain the system without going full /pol/? Just facts.
>>406254
They also funded the production of the Animal Farm cartoon in the 50's, and are responsible for the rise of abstract art.
>>406285
The President can remove the director if he doesn't like what they're doing.
>>406254
>CIA trained the Mujahideen
proofs?
>>406300
>>More specifically, the term may be used to describe agencies that, while constitutionally part of the executive branch, are independent of presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited.
???
>>406285
The President is supposed to have authority over every branch of the armed forces. The CIA is technically part of the armed forces, and it doesn't seem constitutional for the President not to have power over an organization so tied up with the executive branch. Really, you'd have to actually ask a CIA operative who's in on the whole shebang what the deal is.
This is a question that will probably be answered when the Executive branch and the CIA haven't existed for at least two or three centuries, desu.
>>406297
Abstract art pre-dates the fucking CIA
>>406310
>The CIA is technically part of the armed forces.
Not on paper. The law is the law.
This is what i don't understand. They seem to be this dot outside the big government circle that no one outside the agency itself is over. On paper. They might obey the president in general, but they don't seem to have to do that by law if they don't want to.
>>406325
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_CIA_and_the_Cultural_Cold_War
You're right of course, but abstract/modern art as we know it was created as a weapon to fuck with the Soviets and convince the rest of the world that America was amazing. The Soviets were doing the exact same thing in the U.S. of course (promoting dissident/"Degenerate" groups and media), it's just that the CIA had substantially more money and expertise in destroying cultures than the KGB did.
>>406305
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency
In Afghanistan, the CIA funneled $40 billion worth of weapons,[106] which included over two thousand FIM-92 Stinger surface-to-air missiles,[107] to Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), which funneled them to almost 100,000 Afghan resistance
This is basically common knowledge.
>>406326
That's pretty much right, I don't know what else you want us to tell you. They're the branch that does what nobody in America can legally do but is all the same being done by the state.
>>406364
Cultural Marxism is a meme, you didn't use the name but I can tell you're a conspiracy theorist.
>>406307
I don't know what the deal is. The President is the most powerful official in American government, and if he went toe-to-toe with the director of the CIA, he'd likely win.
>>406396
I don't know. As long as they know what they're doing. Their budget in 2013 was $15 billion...haha
>>406420
I remember the time a president tried that once.
Back and to the left, back and to the left.
Good times.
>>406423
Even if they don't know what they're doing (protip: they probably don't) they're still probably running shit. Hegemony doesn't come with wisdom.
>>406431
That's the correct use of the word. The Soviet Union literally funded groups they thought would help Western society decay and move toward degeneracy faster.
>>406427
The Bush administration got away with it.
>>406239
>industrialist capitalist scum-fucks
lol poorfag detected
>>406500
I was trying to get an image across anon
>>406500
Middle class that thinks he's rich detected
>>406239
Bill Hicks, is that you?
>>406524
upper middle class that getting a paycheck is better than actually owning capital detected
>>406528
Faking your own death after realizing you hate the public eye, it sounds crazy I know.
Its funny how all these agencies get investigated by the FBI. If something happens in most agencies FBI has the power to investigate. FBI is like the underdog. However I heard the NSA pays pretty well.
>>406326
The CIA works with the Air Force often from what I've read. Military is said to gather information for the CIA. CIA is just a think tank.
>>406236
Ive heard of so many stories of people leaving the FBI and NSA even Military. Like fuck this, im out of here just because the CIA doesn't give a fuck. For the most part those officials are said to be power hungry full of testosterone. or estrogen...whatever gets them going.
>>406285
>>406326
>>406310
The Legislative Branch are the ones responsible for legally funding them and setting their restrictions. More specifically, its the joint house - senate intelligence committee that is responsible for having hearings of wrong doing, and create legislation that allows the cia, fbi and other organizations do what they do. If said organizations are in trouble, the legislative branch has "hearings" where the organizations get a slap on the wridt, or negative publicity.
There are times when the CIA doesn't get along with the military. Like the military wanted to impeach Obama. However the CIA sees Obama as an honorary agent (CiF) and enjoys the popularity Obama has received from around the world. However the FSB hates it. So they popularize and market Putin to counteract Obama's popularity. They popularized Putin so well. The American public wants a Putin.
>>407214
Obama is a man who once was voted to preside over a social gathering. Once he presided over the social gathering, he kicked out everyone he didnt seem to value or think of as good enough. Sad part is they voted for him. That was their first mistake. Lol. Then he goes to the same crowd he fired and preaches their better.
>>407272
Its a checks and balance system.
Then he wants to manipulate people and says who do you know? Who can help you? I am the presiding power of authority. Ehhh, sucks for all those he hurt.
>>406239
>CIA - "Any questions?"
>Pres - why would someone shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane?
>>406078
it's complicated
>>407337
that's some deep shit. Might as well let them enjoy their way down.
Poppa always said the best cliffs to throw yourself from are the ones surrounded by cotton-y clouds. People used to ask him why is that? He used to answer cuz til this day he aint hear no complaining. And spectators are always amazed.
>>407617
Now that they invented airplanes. That's the best and safest way to travel to the other side.
>>407337
admission used to be free until we upgraded technology. Now all you need is a one way ticket.
>>407632
Sweet lady morgue is always a blessing. Condemned by the hands we are received and liberated by the clouds offering us our heaven. Things always look pleasing when you are high , dont forget the pun is always pleasing to the senses.
>>407671
theres a reason they call it para no ma sia.
>>406598
If that were the case why did he transform into Alex Jones?
I'd like to mention that the CIA's role changed drastically after the cold war ended.
>>407986
It's one the same level of not realizing Clark Kent is Superman it's so goddamn obvious. But as long as he continues admitting he's Alex Jones then he's Alex Jones.
>>406364
Abstract art has its origins in the thought of Immanuel Kant. Go back to /pol/ or reddit or wherever you came from. Fag.
Of the biggest intelligence services in the world I feel like the CIA is the one with the least intelligence
>>406090
You're stupid
>>408109
you just feel that way, huh?
>>408109
I bet you are highly involved in what they do.
>>408109
They measure trajectory. More about economy than James Bond leads you to believe.
What I never got is how can a CIA official be married to a former m16 official. Doesn't that create a conflict of interest from a legal standpoint?
>>406263
So say they do that and the president actually has balls.
The next day, president makes a statement to the effect
"The CIA threatened my life and attempted to dictate my agenda. I'm making use of the police/military/etc to reign them in."
Say the president is then shot.
The CIA is immediately in a position that nothing short of a coup d'etat would sustain their authority. They would (formally) become the biggest villain in American history.
>>406236
I thought it was the opposite? Basically run some insane blackmail/whitewashing operation, just so they got enough sheckels to completely ignore budget changes.
And by ignoring budget changes, they get to ignore the government, since the government in practice only has power to do budget changes.
>>407207
Thats also relevant.
Basically it boils down to "why would Senate Intelligence Committee ever have any form of insight?"
Ultimatly it bows to shit like the fbi and the federal reserve, but yhey generally let it do whatever it feels like.
>>407617
But ammunition costs money.
>>406297
>are responsible for the rise of abstract art.
This is a meme overstated by autists in their quest to discredit anything less realist than the early impressionists.
If you actually think the CIA is a super spoopy black ops organization youre in for a whole mess of disappointment.
Since the agencies inception it has been staffed by nothing more than drunk, womanizing Wall Street lawyers, paranoid conspiracy loons, and bureaucrats who wanted to play at espionage. The failure to success rate of CIA operations is astounding. The ONLY reason they have been around for so long is because of thwyre sweet talking ability.
Look up Wild Bill Donovan, JJ Angelton, and Ted Shackley. Each of those men fall into those respective categories listed above.
>>408597
>m16
>>406078
Sort of like a praetorian guard, if they like you they help you if they don't they kill you.
>>406239
>CIA
>big guy
subtly memed, my friend
>>408084
But he already admitted he's not Alex Jones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJGQfhYWpa4
>>408606
One could only hope they'd oust themselves so blatantly.
The CIA is "this guy I know".
>made fast friends with him fighting some douche down the block
>you ended up having a few beers with him and telling your life's story to him
>he likes what you're about, says to call him if there's anything you ever need
>he eagerly makes sure that your problems are eliminated or minimized, as long as you DON'T FUCKING ASK the who-what-when-where-why-how of it
>and he takes car of these problems more often than not, sure; it's just that the way he tells you indicates a deeper evil than telling the neighbors to fuck off from your lawn
>everyone knows about him, but no one knows what the hell he does, or how he even pays rent; they just know not to fuck around near his spooky-ass house
>you sometimes see a fucked-up, horrible headline and secretly wonder if that was him
>>409632
Literally the opposite of how the CIA functions
>>409632
>agrees with the basic consensus of the thread but adds no substance, implicitly frames said consensus as /x/ tier fearmongering, and has a bit of retardation, but not enough to be bait
Looks like a bet hedging false flag.
This thread's compromised, folks.
>>408774
That's what's so disturbing about it
It's a top secret black ops organization with near-limitless money and essentially zero public oversight, and the people running it are a bunch of incompetent alcoholics.
>>406078
Right, we're talking about the "separation" between the CIA and the executive branch. Congress, and ultimately the President, do have the power to control the director of the CIA.
It's important to note this and not confuse the separation as being between the US "government" and CIA.
>waahh waahh muh ethics
Some of you kids don't seem to understand that sometimes in order to keep innocents safe you gotta do some questionable shit. There are evil people out there who wish to do us harm. For those gray area situations where legal and orderly solutions aren't going to work, we call to the shadows.
>>406239
This is highly exaggerated but there's definitely some truth to it. Unless youre Sec of State or something presidential candidates probably don't know much more about what's actually going on behind the curtain than highly informed civilians, there has to be a period where the respective bureaus set your shit straight on everything.
>>413605
>there are evil people out there that wish to do us harm
They are no more "evil" as a whole than the US. The nature of competing states is an ongoing amoral competition to fuck each other up and claim supremacy, and it has always been this way.
>>406310
>The CIA is technically part of the armed forces
No, it's the central intelligence agency. Formally, intelligence i.e. a collection of data and facts concerning the state of the world are delivered to the head of a state. The government then decides what to do with the information. Intelligence agencies are also authorised to conduct counter-espionage, which is the protection of sensitive information of the country they are working for.
Now that the Cold War is over and economy rules all, who do you think holds power and who do you think intelligence concerns?
>>413605
>we call to the shadows
>>406427
Back and to the left, the "jet fuel" of the 60s?
>>406403
>Cultural Marxism is a meme
Sure thing. What the guy you responded too is true too.
>Modern art was CIA 'weapon'
>the CIA fostered and promoted American Abstract Expressionist painting around the world for more than 20 years.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html
>>415443
>someone wrote a book about it, therefore it's real!
what does your article have to do with what you claim is cultural marxism?
>>415475
My point is the term is very real, and has meaning in academic circles. They bit that you don;t like is that the meaning is pretty much the same as when used by right wing commentators.
The tl;dr, Marxists found the Frankfurt school to change Europe and make it more compatible with socialism. Out of this school developed critical theory. Critical theory was always best for assessing and breaking down 'cultural hegemony'. The people who came up with it knew this. Whether the people using critical theory to attack western tradition today know about the origins of their technique or its true intention doesn't matter. They are using techniques developed by 'cultural marxists' the affect change in the superstructure of the western world.
>>415484
>if we aren't dropping wages down to single digit numbers, destroy all unions and building death camp for dissidents, it's because our society was corroded by cultural marxists.
the frankfurt school was just another point in a long line of thinkers in history. And they also criticised the Soviet power. I don't think the Soviet regime would be that flexible, to allow discord. But even if it did, just as the CIA claims it did (key term: claims) with abtract art, then they would sponsor artists and artists in general, not a school of philosophy that put marxism under critique as well.
And the term "cultural hegemony" comes from Gramsci who was italian and had nothing to do with the School of Frankfurt.
>>415535
>if we aren't dropping wages down to single digit numbers, destroy all unions and building death camp for dissidents, it's because our society was corroded by cultural marxists.
not what I said. But the divisive identity politics grew out of the combination of political correctness, a tool of the 'new left' and critical theory. The two taken together means that any group can claim oppression by white euroman and if white euroman tries to deny this, it's X-ist.
The foot-soldiers of the neo-left may not even know the agenda they're pushing but thier thinkers do, namely to create a new prole class as the old working class are now too comfortable to revolution.
>>415535
>the frankfurt school was just another point in a long line of thinkers in history.
You realize that's part of his point, right?
>>415603
it wasn't. Marx wasn't sponsored by the soviets. Engels wasn't sponsored by the soviets. Alex Bergmann and Emma Goldman weren't sponsored by the soviets. Neither were Rosa Luxembourg and Toni Negri.
>>415595
>>415595
>The two taken together means that any group can claim oppression by white euroman and if white euroman tries to deny this, it's X-ist.
In your head maybe. As I was stating, schools of thought jump from the workers struggle. The class struggle exists, it's not an invention. Find out what Operaismo and the subsequent Workers' autonomy was.
>>415643
He's blaming the Marxist intellectual tradition, not just the USSR. He's wrong to single out the Frankfurt school; revolutionary Marxists are by definition trying to overturn social mores and values.
>>415643
The class struggle was near dead in the west. The alternative was the soviet model, which very few over here ever supported. The end of the cold war and the improvements made to the lives of the working class since the turn of the 20th century have removed almost entirely the chances of a true working class revolution. Currently the left is fractured. Largely their new tactic is to create new oppressions or highlight other, non class based ones. This is why orthodox marxists dislike the term.
I don't see how you can deny what I said above wither. It's becoming more prominent every day, with the ideas of 'only whites can be racist' 'men cannot be the victims of sexism'. All of this goes back to critical theory and political correctness is the tool that stops such claims being honestly and openly discussed.
Also, RE the frankfurt school, it wasn't formed by workers. Idealists. Marxists. But sure as hell not 'workers'.
Back in the period after WW1 there was an explosion of intellectual interest in propaganda, "Public Relations", and its relationship with democratic theory. The war had spurred an incredible campaign to educate the American people on their duty and mission in the war to garner support for the war effort. The federal government funded speakers to stump across the country in support of the war, colleges had changed their curriculum to encourage youth into the service, "subversive" material like socialist pamphlets were extirpated from circulation. The result of this campaign was a marked increase in the scientific aspects of PR. What worked and what didn't? Why? How malleable is the public's perception? Could the public be mobilized for other interests, both corporate and federal? The following is an excerpt from a book by Walter Lippman from that period.
>"Democratic theory premised on the enlightenment and civic interest of the citizen is built on a fountain of sand. There can be no common will, no spontaneous consensus, no such thing as intelligently made mass decision. The solution to this problem is an "intelligence bureau" to pursue the common interests that very largely avoid public opinion, managed by a specialized class whose personal interest is beyond the reach of the locality"
This is entirely conjecture, but the "intelligence bureau" described by Lippman parallels the accusations made about the CIA today. An organized group devoted to advancing the interests of the country that do not answer to the fickle vicissitudes of public opinion and the democratic process. Just food for thought.
>>406252
>this guy has never pointed a high powered rifle at cia/FBI assholes that were spying on you from a hill above your house
Ask me anything
>>406403
you seriously cannot be this.delusional
>>418064
That just sounds like a different way to state the CIA's stated mission. I don't see "a Zionist conspiracy!!!!"
>>418090
The role of cultural Marxism is a meme. It's real but 95% of the public doesn't give a shite about it. Only the lower part anyway.
>>418105
It is the sole reason the left holds any power whatsoever
>>406078
The impression of the CIA I've gotten from what I've read has not been a positive one.
>Overthrow Mossadegh to install the Shah
>Shah gets overthrown in popular revolution, fundamentalists enjoy widespread report, and relations between Iran and America are eternally sullied
>Sends guerillas to invade Cuba
>Invasion fails, becomes widely publicized, and bolsters Castro's image of being in control and subsequently strengthens his grip on power
>Everything that went down in Southeast Asia
>Laos, Vietnam, and Cambodia all become gommie anyways but it doesn't matter in the end because they eventually establish economic ties with non-gommie countries
>All of the coups and secret operations that went down in South America
>Genocide fun time in Guatemala, Nicaragua, and El Salvador
>Violent dictators rise to power in Argentina, Brazil, and Chile
>All of said dicators eventually fail, CIA involvement becomes publicized, and resentment of America increases noticeably while empowering types like Hugo Chavez
>Fund and train nice Mujhideen friends in Afghanistan to fight gommies
>Soviet Union collapses on it's own accord, some Mujhideen friends form Al-Queda and subsequently become the bane of the Western world
That's not even touching on the more notorious incidents like Watergate and the Iran-Contra affair. Every time I bring these things up, the response I get is typically "it was done in the context of the cold war" or "it had to be done to stop the gommies". Those would both be reasonable, though depressing, justifications for the CIA's actions if it wasn't for the massive 'blowback' all of them resulted in. Am I wrong in thinking that nearly everything the CIA did was either 1) horribly amoral/wrong/illegal by international law, 2) fueled the opposition it was supposed to be fighting, or 3) created some kind of new problem that persisted past the end of the cold war?
>>418384
Everything the cia has ever done is shit
>>418384
Was there ever anything the CIA has done that had a positive effect and didn't come back to completely bite America in the ass?
>>406239
>twelve industrialist capitalist scum-fucks
Hello Reddit
>>418487
Alao weren't they completely BTFO and deeply infiltrated by the KGB time and time again during the cold war? I mean the KGB were masters of their craft when it came to espionage but that doesn't give the CIA a pass for being so shitty.
>>418507
nice argument there friend. Why don't you quote us something by the bible?
>>418384
100 years before the founding of the CIA, the US sent Commodore Perry to Asia. His mission? Forcefully open Japan to foreign trade.
Perry's legacy lead to a way of dealing with Japan: use threats of violence to exploit the island and occasionally act on said threats.
Being the most direct foreign contact the Japanese had at that time, they naturally became accustomed to this behavior. And before you know it, 5,424,000 civilian deaths occurred at the hands of the Japanese.
TL;DR: Not knowing anything about blowback is nothing knew for Americans.
>>408606
But anon,
That already happened and people still think some random guy did it.
>>418546
the announcement is essential, learn to read dufus.
>>418559
His announcements on ending the fed might as well be to the same effect as your hypothetical statement.
>>406239
I dunno about the assassination thing, but I'm sure there is a sitdown the first day of the job where the agencies tell you how the country really works. The government can't easily have longterm plans if the top guy is getting replaced every decade or less.
>>418571
the post you quoted infers that the announcement of the threat on the politician's head is essential
>>406239
>twelve jews from Halliburton and Lockheed-Martin
Fixed that for you
>>406236
would you rather it was controlled like a political establishment and its goals and methods changed every time a new government was elected.
