Historically, what people, groups, or countries were absurdly lucky?
>>401656
Europeans, generally
>>401656
Spain, England/GB/UK, France, Austria, Prussia/Germany?
Only reason Sweden have been allowed to do pretty much anything or attempted anything trough history is because the other major powers always assumed that, due to the land size, about as many people lived there as in France.
By the 18th century, everyone assumed it lived 20 million people in Sweden while it was closer to 2 million.
This despite the Swedish government having a very good count on their population trough Church-books keeping tabs on everything, to the degree that pretty much everyone can track their lineage back to the 16th century.
Silesia.
Why?
They were the cause of a ton of wars, but never saw much of the violence. They were such an important province to whoever ruled them that Silesia could say and do what they wanted.
Plus while under Prussian rule, they had the benefits of one of the greatest armies in europe.
>>401656
USA
>>401723
This. Scandinavia as a whole didn't see much war on its soil and was allowed to raid the rest of europe pretty willy nilly.
Finland and Denmark make pretty good buffer states desu
>>401656
Baneposters
The Japanese.
Massive storm > mongol fleet
>>401723
How did Sweden's Military succeed with such a small pool of people to draw from?
>>401656
Timothy Dexter is dank af
>>401723
>trace their lineage back to the 16th century
What about modern Swedes though, does Somalia have records dating back to this period?
>>401656
Millennials
>>401828
The Japs were lucky when US chose to nuke them at the end of WWII, the alternative would've been Soviets attempting to invade and or asking to carve it up ala Germany.
>>402420
Thank you dear poster, for I did not suspect that
>>402425
This is not wrong.
Russia. Every other force that has attempted to invade by land from the west has wound up freezing to death.
>>402592
>>>/pol/
>>402425
>Internet
+whatever is created in 10-20 years
Japan
>No one fucks with you for over a thousand years after your colonization
>When finally an invasion force finally does come knocking they get scared for no reason after crushing your entire army and Poseidon himself sends a typhoon to punish them for it.
>Poseidon saves you a second time because fuck the Mongols.
>None of the colony happy European powers care enough to conquer you
>America comes knocking looking to make you into their colony and there's nothing you can do to stop them
>Loljk, America is suddenly embroiled in civil war and you're free to rapidly modernize
>You picked the wrong side and the starved and bombed out remnants of your underdeveloped nation are about to be fucked six ways from Sundays by the Russians.
>Nope. America develops a god bomb and puts an end to the war just before the Soviets can enslave a large portion of your nation. Saving tens of millions of lives in the process.
>A sudden rivalry kicks up between what were for centuries the best of allies and you make an absolute fortune selling weapons to the US.
>You ride this success to become the most prosperous nation in Asia.
The only bad break that really hindered Japan was Nobunaga getting assassinated before he could essentially usher in the Meiji reformations centuries early in his bid to become the Asian Alexander the Great.
>>402695
All things told, Japan did really well from the US civil war until even now, and in WWII it should be noted that it had no business being as successful as it was.
>Japan's land mass is small
>actually usable land mass is even smaller
>more than 70% of Japan's land is unusable, most of that being mountains
It's fucking ridiculous to fight a campaign in Japan. It's not worth the effort, really.
>still raised a large enough army and navy to fucking shame Russia. Not just defeat it, but to humiliate it.
>barely got involved in WWI on the Entente side, still got fukken sweet land grabs
>WWII rolls around, strong enough to fuck with America
>soldiers fought hard every step of the way
>these soldiers were fighting on a pure foraging diet, suffering from malnutrition
>the country managed to produce some of the best small arms and planes of the war
>post-war economy recovers quickly, especially compared to Germany
America also would never have let the Soviets take Japan. Even if they didn't nuke it to force them to surrender. Again, it's not worth to fight a war for Japan, but America and the USSR would've fought for it, like they did for Vietnam.
And that would've been pretty bad.
>God has a special providence for fools, drunks, and the United States of America
But, really, Americans are really lucky. They got a whole continent for themselves, with just a few and weak indigenous people to take from, and they are two oceans away from the damages of wars they have fought.
They had such a good run that their national tragedy involves 2.000 people dying. 2.000! That's pretty much the number of Poles who died everyday from 1939 to 1945, while Americans were fighting the easiest fronts in the war.
>>401656
Rothschild. If I had an empire, I would've crushed them.
Western Europe pretty lucky that Ogedei Khan died before the Mongols could advance into it.
>>402425
>implying
The next 40 years are going to be rough. The right answer is boomers.
>handed everything on a silver platter
>manage to fuck it up
Great Britain, USA, and Japan come to mind.
Especially unlucky: France
>>401680
>constant invasions from the ME and the Steppe
>horrifying plagues killing millions
>constant wars between feudal kingdoms
>even bigger wars between newly emergent empires
>urban centers turn into overcrowded disease pits during industrial revolution
>continent decimated by war twice in less than 30 years
>lucky
The jews
>>401706
Johan you forgot the Ottomans
England post-1066. France was in such turmoil for the next 600 or so years that Britain never really had any major threat of invasion and could get their shit together.
They actually had their shit together so much longer than France, that for a while they owned like 1/2 of all French lands
>>401656
Hindus might be as scarce as Arab Christians in a timeline without English colonialism. Muslims dominated much of the subcontinent, and large numbers of Hindus converted.
A multi-religious, Balkanized India is probably better than what they've got today t b h
>>401723
How was the land size understood back in 1500?
Also, explain your post some more. How exactly did Sweden's perceived size aid them?
>>401656
>Historically, what people, groups, or countries were absurdly lucky?
Switzerland.
>no natural resources, landlocked.
>absurdly rich
>tiney weak country, borders with Austrian Empire, France, German empire and the Pope.
>independent and peaceful for centuries, managed to nap out 2 world wars.
>>401828
You do know a second Mongol invasion got to Japan only to get completely blown out, routed, and wiped out by the Japanese right?
>>403117
dude the Yuros had to deal with two steppe invasions from Rome to the industrial era when they dont matter anymore
the fate of entire ME nations for centuries were defined by the Mongols and Turks
Plagues kill everyone, feudal infighting kills everyone, newly emergent empires kill everyone especially when a Chinese dynasty falls to shit (looking at you Three Kingdoms period, someone please tell me that pre- and post-period census data was inflated somehow), decimation by war kills everyone, and overcrowding due to the industrial revolution is a mo-money-mo-problems type struggle that everyone will go through on the way like china today
>>401656
we, right now.
>>401723
do you mean to tell me europeans for the longest time couldn't understand the concept of living in a frozen shithole and how such conditions would tamp down on population growth?
>>402695
>The only bad break that really hindered Japan was Nobunaga getting assassinated before he could essentially usher in the Meiji reformations centuries early in his bid to become the Asian Alexander the Great.
I do not get it, how would Nobunaga be any different from Toyotomi Hideyoshi? To me it just sounds like weeb fantasy.
America
Switzerland
Japan
>>403138
Ottomans only fought two of them though
>>403162
That's not luck, that good administration. Swiss had a proto-conscription program as far back as the 15th century, and their soldiers, namely pikemen, were of the highest caliber. This combined with their geography meant invading Switzerland was a guaranteed bloodbath. They also sold these soldiers as mercenaries to all the largest, richest states in Europe and brought back serious coin, which helped the establishment of a sophisticated banking system and a modern market economy. Then they committed themselves to neutrality because they realized that they're too small to ever mount a successful offensive campaign against their neighbors, but they're also well positioned enough that they get a +7 terrain bonus when defending meaning a defensive war will be a walk in the park. So they avoid the destruction of modern wars, and get all the money of the rich people leaving the countries at war around them
>>403142
You have no clue what you're talking about.
>>403331
Nobunaga was a lot more open to western powers and westernizing than Hideyoshi was.
>>402695
That picture was taken after he pulled the blade out, he was wearing glasses at first.
>>401738
This without a doubt. They just stumbled upon a largely uninhabited landmass, bordering two oceans, with unthinkable natural riches.
>>403501
given the odds and 700+ years history, hows that not pure luck.
>>401723
I've heard Sweden really doesn't have any historical catastrophes of great note, at least ones that the public remember.
>>402592
>Africa is one country
>>403117
Is "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" part of European success?
>>403117
>>constant invasions from the ME and the Steppe
Steppe invaders never penetrate into central Europe with the intention of conquering lands, love the Carpathian basin.
>>horrifying plagues killing millions
Which allow the end of serfdom and the birth of the Renaissance.
>>constant wars between feudal kingdoms
That has nothing to do with luck, just regular human greed.
>>even bigger wars between newly emergent empires
European wars weren't that big compared to those in India and China, not sure about the middle east.
>>urban centers turn into overcrowded disease pits during industrial revolution
Also become industrialized to the point where they almost completely control global economics until the 1900s (1960s if you count America as European due to cultural similarities)
>>continent decimated by war twice in less than 30 years
Once again their fault
They were pretty lucky, the Mongols sacking Baghdad significantly crippled the Muslims allowing Christianity to rise to power, they were closer to the Americas than the Muslims or Indians meaning colonization was much easier for them, their lands were much more heavily forested than central asia and the middle east meaning that steppe peoples couldn't effectively wage war in western and central Europe, not to mention that they had the Franks who formed the basis for two of the most powerful countries in Europe (France and the Holy Roman Empire) not to mention acting as a bulwark against Muslim expansion from Hispania.
Honestly Europe is a great place for a society to develop, the numerous rivers and the Mediterranean help support trade while the forests and mountains help stop steppe peoples from fucking them over, not to mention that the relatively diverse and wet climates make farming easy and make farming different crops easy. There is a reason sub Saharan Africa never accomplished much, it isn't exactly easy to farm in a jungle, desert, or very dry bush.
Every western European country that isn't Ireland or Portugal
>>404651
>The only bad break that really hindered Japan was Nobunaga getting assassinated before he could essentially usher in the Meiji reformations centuries early in his bid to become the Asian Alexander the Great.
>>404651
>the Mongols sacking Baghdad significantly crippled the Muslim
Plenty of astoundingly retarded assumptions ITT
>>403501
>>401680
Not really. Europe is very poor in resources compared to other continents, not to mention the harsh climate and the many hostile civilizations surrounding it
>>404878
Harsh climate?
Seriously?
Temperate, bro. Temperate.
>>404878
wouldn't that make their success even luckier
>>404887
Meh, most of Norther Europe is pretty harsh, especially in winter
>>401823
/thread
>>404898
Yea your are right. I was reasoning more among the lines of "favorable" conditions. I messed it up
>>404900
According to what?
Some snow in winter?
>>404922
It makes a civilization pretty hard to create. I'm talking about ancient civilizations of course, not 1900
>>404941
But Europe has not harsh climate, but temperate.
>>404947
Depends on the region. I'm from Norway so I tend to reason more in terms of nordic countries
The Jews.
>>404963
And there may be some harsh cliamtes into Norwegian mountains, but the coastal gots some nice Gulf Current that gives some nice averages during the whole year.
>>401656
Habsburgs.
Mostly through marriages and elections they became Emperors of HRE and Kings of Hungary, Bohemia, Spain, Portugal, Dukes of Burgundy, they ruled in Netherlands, Italy and Spanish and Portugal colonial empires, short lived Mexican Empire and were very close to become English kings.
>>403227
>someone please tell me that pre- and post-period census data was inflated somehow
Probably not. There's an incredible book, "The Premodern Chinese Economy" by Gang Deng, that actually spends many chapters documenting civil wars and other infighting in China (as well as invasions, natural disasters etc.)
The scale of it all was mindblowing, especially since (unlike Europe's peasant/pissant revolts) civil wars often covered like 90% of the country, not just a few hamlets.
>>402377
I'd argue it was largely psychologically.
Religious fanaticism was a big deal in the Swedish army by the 18'th century since you had to have something that kept soldiers in line. Soldiers got convinced that the battles was already decided, and that if God wanted them dead, he would make sure they died not by bullet but by some other means, so running away and being afraid of fighting was useless.
Imagine firing at thousands of soldiers, and even if people are falling down, everyone just keeps walking like they're bloody robots. Suddenly you're realizing that the stuff you heard about them not firing their guns until they can see the white in your eyes is true. Shit's terrifying.
>>403152
>Also, explain your post some more. How exactly did Sweden's perceived size aid them?
People believed a shitton of people lived there. So not only was it a logistic nightmare to invade it to begin with if you aren't Denmark or Russia, people thought you'd stumble upon huge armies just waiting there because reasons.
>>403233
The topic is about luck, isn't it? I'll have a look around if I can find a proper source on it.
>>403233
They thought Hyperborea was some fucking utopian Shangri-La.
England. This is inarguable.
Mongols were pretty lucky. As I understand it every empire they attacked was in decline at the moment they attacked it.
San Marino, or "how to win by doing nothing".
>>405236
You know, that probably had a lot to do with their infamous recon skills and, more generally, natural selection on the steps. Raiding people don't survive very long if they don't learn to spot the soft and weak preys.
The Chinese.
>>405360
>steps
Steppes, fuck.
>>401706
>Austria
They've got mountains and Vienna going for them, but they had their shit pushed in in both world wars
The Netherlands
>complete west swamp
>constant floods
>let's create new land and dykes to fight against the water
>create extremely fertile ground with it
>new ground for new farmers, so feodality never gains a lot of ground in the west
>new relative tolerant communities are founded in the 'polders'
>flanders is the richest hub of northern europe during the medieval era
>reformation and contra-reformation
>spaniards go mad in flanders
>rich huguenots, jews and other non-catholics flee to the stable north
>literally some of the richest men and best craftsmen enter your country for free
>living in your former swamps at the river mouth of the Rhine
>industrializing of the rhine happens
>'hey, those harbors at the river end come pretty handy'!
>massive enlargement of said harbors
>become global no.1 port until the early 2000's and even snap out of WWI due to the importance of this harbor
Swamps can be pretty useful
>>403609
No, it's whatever kills you makes you stronger.
Nations are eternal.
>>401828
The Japanese because they were able to industrialize so rapidly even after they got wrecked in the war
>>405520
>Meiji revolution
>luck
I'll grant you that they lucked(?) out in being stuck at the other corner of Eurasia, but their industrialization was quite an achievement.
>>401723
I bet most people still think Sweden has at least 20 million people
>>402436
The Soviets invading Japan would have been a disaster. It could potentially have become a North Korea and we never would have gotten our precious anime.
>>402573
Except Germany kicked their ass in WW1.
>>405236
>Mongols
>Lucky
They only had a single break in history.
Followed by the balkanization of their people.
>>405577
They had lucky break after lucky break.
>>402377
Mercenaries
United States.
>cross river with independence army that would've been raped without fog
>France decides to default itself and save your war just as a fuck you to Britain.
>Spanish and indians fighting themselves so the clay is ezpz to grab
>russia sells alaska for 1 million dollars because they where poor af
>Later they discover this clay is super fucking worthy and sell stuff to people through two world wars of not being invaded
>>405586
No, they had one: during the Asian Dark Ages of the 1200's. In which they founded their empire.
After the collapse of that empire and its component dynasties, boy it was back in Mongolia, being fucked up by other tribes/Chinese/Manchus/Russians. To this day.
Every nation/people that exists today
There's an infinite amount of theoretical alternate realities and if you look at history you see that the fate of an entire empire can be decided on one dude swallowing a moth(after which he falls and breaks his neck)
>>402822
>easiest fronts in the war
Western Front is easily given, but the Pacific War? That was only bested by the Great Patriotic War. That was really the worst fighting in the whole Japanese conflict. Aleutian islands to Burma was horrible.
>>405606
The Middle East as well.
>>405596
Found an excuse to post this
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Theater_(World_War_II)
>>401656
>which groups were lucky
The rich. They stayed rich, through supposedly improved education standards, many wars, many revolutions, global communications between all citizens, etc.
>>401656
The fucking boomers were born into the greatest era of economic growth in American history.
If you were a suburban WASP in college during the 50s and 60s, life was pretty damn comfy and they hardly had to sacrifice anything for it. Millenials are well off with the technological era, but in terms of earning potential vs buying power, they're worse off economically.
>>405867
>Marxists
>>405596
America was an unstoppable freight train what with all those resources at their fingertips and the English idea that the whole fucking world belonged to them. That wasn't luck. That was set in stone.
>>405873
Worse, Keynesian economics, which they love, has led to the outrageous debt that propped up their nice economy and WILL and IS fucking newer generations.
>>405052
Still Scandinavia is referred to as the womb of nations
Well, infants often leave the womb
>>405181
It's mostly thanks to Gustav II Adolf
Some consider him the father of modern warfare, with highly mobile small units of infantry, cavalry and artillery working together in combined arms
They also invented the mass fire¨
Where you essentially had three lines of muskets just shitting out a wall of death and fire
murrica
>hey napoleon gimme that land the size of half of fucking europe for some gold
>yes yes, destroy each other and buy my weapons
>your scientists work for germany? not anymore.
>you want to be isolated japan? not anymore.
>lol the ussr collapsed? freedom always triumphs, fuck yeah.
>democracy is superior
>>405005
Sure, but even in the more temperate areas, it has fuck-all land for farming, and while the climate might be warm enough to actually be quite comfortable for humans with proper clothing, it's wet and you don't get the really hot summers you need for a lot of grain crops. Sure, there's fishing, but that only gets you so far. That really goes for all of Scandinavia. There isn't the population base to build a large civilization. I totally respect everything the Nordics accomplished, including the Vikings, the Varangians, etc., they had an impact out of all proportion to their numbers and were far from barbarians, but even in the early modern era (e.g. Gustavus Adolphus) population was always a hamstring.
>>405989
Having history on Easy Mode is truly great.
>>401680
>>402382
He's a freaking weirdie. He's like the Forrest Gump of the 18th century, if Forrest Gump wasn't just disabled but also a complete and total dick.
>>405880
bingo....not much luck involved, just a lot of hard work.
>>406273
>pretends to be dead
>canes wife because she wasn't grieving enough
Yep
Claudius lucked his way to being Emperor.
>tyrant Tiberius killing any threats including his lineage but spares him cause he thinks his stutter means he is retarded
>next emperor Caligula is bat shit insane and killing everyone but spares him cause he thinks his stutter is funny
>powerful men put him as next emperor cause they think his stutter means he is easy to control
Norway.
Not only are they Scandinavian ubermensch, but they sit atop a ton of oil.
>>405874
If you think luck isn't a massive part of business success, you suck at business.
>>403598
There's been mud-slides and harsh winters but that's about it.
>>408664
> Be Denmark's plaything for all it's existence
> Forced into a union with Sweden
> Union abolished because brothers shouldn't be fighting
> Suddenly, oil
>>401656
The Saudi because oil
Japan because hurricanes
>>401706
>Prussia/Germany
>Austria
>lucky
m8 did you fall into a coma in 1913?
>>405563
You'd have have to combine all of Scandinavia plus Finland to get that many nords desu.
>>409773
>Finland 5.5M
>Sweden 9.5M
>Norway 4M
>Denmark 4.5M
Sorta.
>>409721
And neighboring monarchies. There's a reason European expats in the Gulf states privately compare Arab monarchs to the Beverly Hillbillies amongst themselves.
Just find the opposite of Africa and It'll do
>>405572
Or maybe we would have two anime industries, both trying to one-up eachother in a Colf Waifu War
>>403522
>*stabs you*
>*pulls off glasses*
>heh... noffingu perussonaru, baka
Japan due to geographic isolation.
China has had to fight back literally thousands of massive invasions from pan-faced northern tribes. Japan? Just 2.
>>403227
>two steppe invasions
Um no.
>Sarmatians
>Huns (and Goths, Vandals, Alans etc.)
>Magyars
>Bulgars
>Bashkirs
>Slavs
>all the various Turkic tribes
>Cumans
>Khazars
>Tartars
>Kazakhs
Steppe peoples were fucking up the frontier provinces of the Russians as late as 1830.
It's not like the number even matters, considering that one is enough to cause a civilisation-changing snowball effect.
>>405472
You are forgetting all the fighting that has been done in the 80's year war, a lot of people died due to the spanish. Naarden for instance. Its never all luck.
>>404922
Look at it from the perspective of a Stone Age farmer
>most is covered in thick woods
>even after slashing and burning the soil is poor and unproductive for most grains
>shit climate means Northern Europe is one of the cloudiest places on the planet, further fucking up your agriculture and generally making life miserable
>very few native fruits and vegetables
>not a lot of suitable livestock, not that the geography is well-suited for pastoralism
>living off of the sea is shit, especially the North Sea, because of the unpredictable weather and freak storms (just look at how the coastline of the Netherlands changed in the last 2000 years)
>winters are cold and dark as fuck, summers are sultry and airless. It rains all the fucking time (Northwestern Europe at least)
It's not hard to figure out why civilisation started off better in, say, the fertile river deltas of Mespotamia, India and Northern China in comparison.
>>402793
"Produced the best small arms and planes of the war"
/k/ would like a Word with you
The Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic had no business actually succeeding, and benefited from multiple neighbours shitting the bed.
>>403117
>constant invasions from the ME and the Steppe
>horrifying plagues killing millions
>constant wars between feudal kingdoms
>even bigger wars between newly emergent empires
>implying the rest of the earth was any different
>>402377
they drafted finns for the meatgrinder
>>412662
They had great small arms, bar a few exceptions like some their handguns.
The Arisaka is renowned for being an absolute monster, being able to take ridiculous powder loads like a champ, their LMG's were quite good also.
>>403205
That one got sunk by a storm too, and only a handful of stragglers made it to Japan, and those did quite well considering how bad they were outnumbered.
>>403598
That's because Sweden's been saving up for future catastrophes.
>>401656
I'd say all of the island babbies
>>403117
>constant invasions from the ME and the Steppe
Most of central asia was rolling around in these, a few turks and mongols licked the borders and left.
>horrifying plagues killing millions
China's population nearly halved from the black death, which is basically about as bad.
>even bigger wars between newly emergent empires
See: China, Persia being raped by a combination of Arabs followed by Turks, Mongols, and then Tamerlane
>urban centers turn into overcrowded disease pits during industrial revolution
That was 100% Europe's own fault.
>continent decimated by war twice in less than 30 years
See: China
>>401656
>unless you fuck with the mongols
All the nations that struggled against Mongs are stronger because of it (China, Russia).
Meanwhile, look at Mongols now. Bitches.
>was hoping for a thread with cool stories about lucky people like in OPs pic
But no, /int/ had to ruin everything with their immense faggotry yet again
Would you "people" just fuck off already?
>>402822
>easiest fronts in the war
I'll admit, you're absolutely correct. However, as something of a counter, I'd like to point out that it was a war that we had no reason to get involved with in the first place. I think a lot of Europeans really think that it was somehow inevitable that the US should get involved with a European conflict, but really, there was no reason we should have concerned ourselves with it at all.
>>412662
Early in the war, yes. They had the advantage over the USN in 1941, but had utterly lost it by 44.
>>413973
>This, tbwfh sempai
No modern day existing country has had more luck than Croatia
Many countries have earned their successes but Croatia just is a part of success by accident it seems
>WWI barely participates in War, surrounding countries take most of the casualties
>WWII participates by joining Axis and fucking Yugoslavia from the inside
>Suffers very little damage from the Allies during and post war
>Invited back into Yugoslavia even though betrayal
>Fast forward 40 years
>Commits massive war crimes against Serbs in Croatia
>Commits massive war crimes against Bosnians in Bosnia
>It is completely overshadowed due to war crimes from Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo
>Pays virtually no penalties for constant Anti Serb and Bosnian government and social actions in mixed cities
Yeah sure I'm biased because I'm a serbfag but they've really never made up for their wrongs...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Revere
fags you know why
>>403598
Mass starvation and poverty in the 19th century
>>414843
I wonder if that is what drove them to pursue social policies.
>>401656
Prussians
God fucking damn Prussians
>>415075
No, the swedish welfare state was created in the 1960s.
>>414011
What finns? Sweden's entire population was 2 million but there were only 150k Finns in the early 1700s. Finland was always being devastated and Russians even took slaves from Finland during their occupations.
