What were the greatest military blunders ever /his/?
>>396192
In terms of "What the fuck you were thinking" type of bad? Or in terms of "blunder that lead to disastrous consequences" bad? Because the two do correlate, but not perfectly.
>>396197
Just total military fuck-ups that could have been avoided or should have won.
>>396201
Anything Churchill was involved in.
>>396211
Well France wasn't really his fault but everything else yeah since it was for political reasons rather than strategic reasons.
Austerlitz
Turns out letting a naive, young emperor overrule your most experienced generals while in command of a battle doesn't end well.
>>396192
inb4 voyage of Baltic Fleet during Russo-Japanese War
>>396101
Pompeo vs. Caesar.
>>396192
Battle of France
>How do you want your WW2 senpai ?
Like 90% of everything Japan did during the Pacific Theatre of WW2. Their entire doctrine on air, land, and sea was kind of a mess.
>>396201
Rommel's first attack on Tobruk probably isn't the worst, but I'm reading a book on the Mediterranean theater, and especially for someone who was normally a pretty solid commander...
>We just chased the British for about 700 miles, the men are exhausted, low on fuel and ammo and food.
>But I'm sure those guys in Tobruk are just as ragged, and they'll fold if we push.
>No, I haven't done any reconaissance, gut intuition is enough!
>Oh shit, they're not folding.
>Attack harder
>You guys, that panzer division, yeah, your tanks haven't arrived, grab rifles and charge into the city.
Spent 5 months bleeding men and what little supplies he could bring up before being rolled back by Crusader.
>>396217
>letting
>the emperor
that's not how that works.
>>396230
Until he pushed to El Alamein and suffered an irreversible blunder.
>>396234
No, that was almost a year later, and with a massive wave of reinforcements that the Germans could ill-spare.
The 1941 campaign started well with Sunflower, but it kind of ended in disaster.
>>396232
I was moreso trying to just say the idea of it happening, so yeah I should've worded it differently.
>>396192
Operation Just Cause when they accidentally airdropped the Sheridan tank on that one dudes house and smushed it.
Hands down.
>>396192
Battle of Isandlwana
Agincourt?
Englishmen were tired and outnumbered and Frenchmen actually had a solid plan - which nobody followed. French elite was slaughtered, England gained upper hand, Burgundian seized the chance and and Hundred Years War would be lost without a meme heroine.
>>396267
The French went full retard
This charge of several kms on foot in the mud toward the uphill while wearing heavy armor and being shot at by thousands of archers was literally suicidal
>>396227
> Like 90% of everything Japan did during the Pacific Theatre of WW2
What? They steamrolled everything until the Yanks arrived. They forced the biggest ever surrender of British troops in Singapore and were pretty successful everywhere else, even managing to bomb Australia and set up successful puppet governments in India.
When you've managed to soundly defeat the British Empire then why would you expect America to be any different?
Letting in that wooden horse
>>396264
This
The whole Zululand campaign pre-Parliament involvement was so poorly planned and executed it's remarkable Chelmsford was given a second chance.
>>396295
What are you talking about? Malaya I'll give you, but the rest of the Pacific campaign was 7 months of overruning barely defended territories before hitting real resistance.
Fuck, they couldn't even advance far off the coast against China, which was bumfuck backwards and in the middle of a civil war to boot.
>even managing to bomb Australia
Oooh, a tiny carrier strike against a port. So devastating.
>and set up successful puppet governments in India.
No they didn't. They didn't even get into India.
Battle of Magnesia
memes aside, how does one fuck up a battle so hard
Culloden.
Jacobites had everything going good for them up until this point. Then they royally fucked up all because one fucking guy (John O'Sullivan) just keeps making mistake after mistake.
>>396386
>how does one fuck up a battle so hard
Muh Elephants
Battle of karbala
Most Iraqis didnt even make it to the enemy before dying to super cobras, f16s and a10s.
And yes it was a aad/vapid war, but the fact that the general was ordered to attempt to retake the bridge was a mistake
>>396192
Invasion of Kuwait.
WW2 from start to finish. The Winter War, the Maginot line blunder, entire North African theater, Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk, Market Garden, anything Italy was involved in, etc.
People like to portray WW2 as a clash of genius commanders while in fact it was conducted by absolute retards on all sides and in the end the least incompetent retard won.
>>396327
>Letting in that wooden horse
>>396495
Hindsite is 20/20 anon. War had never evolved faster than it has in the 20th century.
The sack of Constantinople in the 4th crusade.
>>396495
>the Maginot line blunder,
What blunder? The blunder was a political, not amilitary one, failing to persuade the Belgians to let the French reinforce the country over the winter, which was the entire plan the Maginot line was based around.
>entire North African theater
>Moscow
>Stalingrad
>Kursk
>Market garden.
Exactly what idiotic blunders are we talking about? Pretty much all of those had quite reasonable ideas, which were either imperfectly executed or based on bad information. I'd hardly call any of them idiotic.
>>396495
What examples are there of modern genius? It seems that everyone since the beginning of the 20th century is retarded, maybe modern warfare itself is beyond comprehension.
>>396522
that one's succesfull though
Battle of Cunaxa
>actually dominate the battle and technically win
>but still lose it cause the guy you were supporting went and died after he rushed through enemy lines with his cavalry just cause he wanted to stab his own brother when he was surrounded by his own royal guard
>all he had to do was act like your average commander and be at the camp buffet and have gyros and feta cheese and get a free autowin
probably not the biggest but really they had the chance to reclaim constantinople and end the eternal turk once for all in their weakened post ww2 state. with the backing of the entire allies to boot. how did you fuck up this bad
>>396538
I thought it was the other way around, that Artaxerxes made a last ditch attempt to break through and kill Cyrus the Younger, which succeeded.
>>396495
Should mention Singapore and generally the British imbecility in the Pacific as well.
>>396542
>Soviet Russia
Absolutely disgusting
Communism not even once
>>396347
Still not as bad as Britain and General Faker "He's Just Doing it For Attention" Gorden
Cannae
Carrhae
>>396495
War is retardation, so the key to success at warfare is to practice retardation daily.
t. America
>>396543
No, Cyrus told his Spartan commander that he wanted to bumrush Artaxerxes through his elite guard while Clearchus told him he wasnt up for it due to fearing the right flank would break and hoplites were known for holding shields in their left hand when forming a phalanx so they would all be vurnable.
So Cyrus took his own cavalry and went with it himself while the greeks were dominating the right side of the battle only to come back and hear that a member of Artaxerxes royal guard had stabbed Cyrus with a spear making the entire thing moot.
Hell, they even offered the Satrap that sided with Cyrus to be King of Persia but he refused since he wasnt part of the royal lineage and no one would take orders from him.
>>396531
The Miracle at Midway.
Desert Storm.
Aussies and Kiwis in East Timor.
>>396570
But you can point to all of those and say "nope, it was really idiocy on the other side".
I mean, especially at midway. It was pretty much dumb luck that the torpedo and dive bombers hit at around the same time, it certainly wasn't planned. And rather stupid of the Japanese to be refueling all at once in the middle of the battle like that with enemies in the air.
>>396192
Italy doing anything in the 20th century.
>>396557
>be a roman legionnaire
>hear that your legion is called out to battle
>the place is called Caddae
>mfw
>>396583
What is it the limeyfags say "He who dares wins? Desert Storm though was brilliant. That could have gone horribly wrong for the coalition if they didn't execute it perfectly. By your logic every chess match or debate was lost because the other side were retards.
>>396557
pretty much everybody got btfo against horse archers until around 1400.
Pickett's Charge.
Day 3 doesn't happen if Stonewall Jackson lives because if anyone could have flanked the Union line it would have been Stonewall.
Meade is defeated that day.
>>396608
Modern chess play is evaluated by "average centipawn loss", or in essence, degrees your play varies from calculated perfect.
>>396737
Yeah yeah the prisoner's dilemma and all other theory.
Has anything ever been won by someone who did it better than an opponent who was not retarded?
>>396752
I would make the argument that in terms of "getting more out of their resources", Nazi Germany fought a far better war than the Allies did, which means you have a war won by someone who did it worse.
>>396551
With that in mind, I would say for a more contemporary (yet still /his/ related) example would be the USSR invasion of Afghanistan. First of all, nobody invades that shithole and survives, secondly it literally led to the dissolution of the USSR (You could point to Glasnost and Perestroika as well, but you can't deny the strain politically and economically that Afghanistan had. I would argue that had they not invaded Aghanistan, the USSR might still be around, although not Communist, simply because the political divisions wouldn't have been strained by resentment to the war), reinforced the collapse of Communism around the globe, ended the Cold War, led to the creation of Al Quaida, and well the 21st Century has now been defined by increasingly radicalised muslim terrorist organizations ever since.
>>396789
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzp2rpe06j8
>>396817
>>396192
that picture is so fucked, everyone is everywhere fighting everything
>>396836
Why are modern arab armies so shit?
Even the iran-iraq war ended in a ceasefire when half the world was backing Iraq and that was only cause Saddam threatened to use wmds on iranian civilians.
>>396843
shit tier training, lack of unity, absurd specializations (if the guy who knows how to shoot the tank gun dies, rest of the tank crew is fucked), excessive nepotism, lying about various things to not look bad causing the bad situations to get worse, etc.
There was a really nice detailed post on it a while ago but I can't find it in my his/pol/int folder.
>>396843
Secularism, Godlessness.
>>396849
dayum, atleast the various arab rebel groups are doing better then any standing arab army ever could wish for
just look at syria or the shit in yemen that has spilled over into saudi arabia
>>396859
The best armed groups in the region are the Syrian Army, Iranian Revolutionary Guard (like French Foreign Legion), Hezbollah (effectively straddles IRG and Lebanese Military), and Iranian military.
No 'rebel' or Islamist group operating in Syria or Iraq can stand against them realistically without 3:1 reinforcements for their losses.
>Yemen
Houthis have captured two Saudi cities and won most engagements with government forces & Arab Coalition.
I don't think anybody anticipated it but they always had the expertise and local support.
Houthis comprise Shia tribes, Yemen ex-military, and Iranian trained elements.
>>396910
So basically the Shia are the half of Islam that actually know what to do on a battlefield?
>>396927
The Chechens are far better fighters than any Shia group minus Hezbollah.
>>396939
Yeah, but the Chechens are an unholy mix of Muslims and Russians. You can't beat that. They don't count.
>>396927
You'll notice that with the exception of Egypt, Shias occupy the regions that were previously the ERE and the Persian Empire for a reason(s)... both religious and cultural.
I am not saying they aren't utter trash in general - the Syrian army in 2012 was probably mediocre, but after 5 years of fighting with scraps against people who summarily execute all captives and eat their lungs you learn to get your shit together.
Iran has always thought of itself as a regional power, and since 2003 they've been trying to be THE regional power. That means having a military to match, and judging by the last 2 months of Syrian offensives it's been paying off.
>>396939
>>396955
Russians followed the Chechens into Syria, it's going to be glorious when they finally let Kadyrov go in.
Every other battle of the Texas revolution and the Mexican-American war.
They led to the United States gaining control of the land that would become the two most populous, the two richest, and the two most distinctive American states. Not to mention some of the most beautiful land on the continent.
Santa Anna a shit
>>396583
Taking advantage of retards is ingenuity.
>>397010
Or just luck of the moment.
>>396526
I would argue that the French and British order of battle at the line could be considered a pretty big blunder.
>>396983
This is why you don't let chilangos run a country
> Not posting the battle of Karánsebes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Karansebes
>>396836
fuckin LMAO
Barbarossa was pretty stupid.
>>396557
Fucking this. He won such a spectacular victory that he was literally executed for being too good.
>>396192
Vietnam. It could have been a short, easy win if the US had its shit together.
>>397393
>Here, Lars, hold my towel
>Sire, what about your-
>blub blub blub
>...armour?
The Iceni rebellion.
>Yeah I'll take my huge army and just sack london and cut roman women's tits off and sew them into their mouths.
>Psh, aw the little legion got back from fighting those welsh chucklefucks, good luck taking the city peasants.
>Oh, they aren't. Fuck it, let's run them into a dead end.
>Aw yeah we've got anywhere between a 4 and 20 to 1 advantage, bring the wives.
>Yeah let's put a baggage train behind everyone, no one's running away with their family right there.
>They've never lost a frontal assault? Yeah whatever they've never been this outnumbered either.
>Superior gear my ass, get my chariot, I wanna watch this.
>CHARGE
>Hahahahahahaha heh heh.....hhhhh
>OHHHHHH NOOOOO
And nearly 2,000 years later this is a role model for college age twats who can't handle the way someone sits on a subway.
>>397452
Amusement.
>>396295
>They steamrolled everything until the Yanks arrived
Daily reminder that it was Australians in Papua New Guinea that dealt the first defeat to the Japs.
With less troops too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokoda_Track_campaign
read about the actual battle, the wiki battle summary doesnt reflect the actual situation and odds.
>>396817
Didn't Israel threatened to use its illegal nukes on them, slowing their advance and forcing the US to openly support Israel?
>>396211
/thread
>>396192
sicilian expedition by athens during the Peloponnesian war was pretty terrible
>>397527
>""illegal"" ""nukes""
>>397527
They're only illegal if you've signed the nuclear proliferation treaty. And UN only has power if security council agrees which it doesn't because yanks are good little goys.
>>396495
But anon, this is how all wars work. Series of fuckups and blunders led by retards eventually not won by the best genius commander, but by the side which make less fatal mistakes.
>>396386
>If we wanted a failed state, we'd go to Carthage
every fucking time
>Crécy
Moronic Genoese crossbowmen lost the battle for the French
>Charge of the Light Brigade
Pretty obvious one... miscommunication led to ridiculous cavalry charge
"Not tho the soldier knew// Someone had blunder'd"
"Into the jaws of death// Into the mouth of hell// Rode the six-hundred"
>Barbarossa
Again, an obvious one. Much like Napoleon before him, Hitler's technically and tactically superior military was simply no match to the Russian climate and number.
>Napoleon's invasion of Russia
May have won all the battles, but like with Germany in the 1940's, Russian weather and numbers prevailed
>Isandlwana
Another obvious one
>First Boer War
Britain expected the Boers to fight pitched battles... which the obviously did not do
>War of 1812
US tries to take Canada... ends up with a burning whitehouse (as much as Americans try to defend this as a stalemate or whatever, it was a clear British victory... US objectives completely failed and Britain burnt down the Whitehouse... seems like a victory to me. Also, in the European sence, this was part of the Napoleonic Wars... which we won, undeniably.)
>Royalist Cavalry charge at Naseby
Great and effective charge, dealing great damage to the Republicans... but they had to go run off and plunder the baggage train
>Cannae
Obvious
>Teutoberg Forest
Roman legion getting fucked by some sneaky Gauls
>Russo-Japanese War
Russians wanting to flex some muscles and bully the little guy... didn't exactly go well
>Franco-Prussian War
Bismark kind of provoked the French into it, but the Prussians had much superior mobilisation, allowing them to completely fuck France with trains and swiftly lay seige to Paris
>Winter War
Russo-Japanese War, just with the Finnish instead of the Japs
>Somme
Fuck load of allied soldiers killed for minimal gain. Fun fact, the British regiments were told to walk to their objectives, and the Irish and Scots disobeyed, running instead... more Scots and Irish reached their objectives than others
>>397414
How in any way could it have been a short and easy win?
>>396843
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZk4Yu42g0I
>>396817
>arabs in charge of modern warfare
>>396192
>>399526
>gauls
i always thought varus got fucked by germanic tribes?
>>397414
>implying the US wanted it to be over quickly
Vietnam was just a money laundering scheme.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Expedition
>>399526
>1812
Burning down the whitehouse doesn't matter when you ultimately get repulsed and give up.
>>399526
>Moronic Genoese crossbowmen lost the battle for the French
'no'
>>396522
It was deliberate on the Crusaders part, but from the point of view of the Pope/Venice it was a fuck up.
In 1453 someone left a gate open which allowed the Ottomans to just stroll in and capture a segment of the city wall.
>>396542
>The Soviets supplied Turkey.
and we get called Kebab enablers for the Crimean War.
>>399526
1812 was a stalemate fucktard
literally everyone, even brits admit this
burning the whitehouse meant fuck all when they got thrown out of the city the very same day by god himself
>hurricane rolls through and puts out all the fire
>>396217
Didn't the russians fucked everything up because they delayed a week because of the julianus calendar?
