Did Moses exist?
Was he ever really the leader of the Israelites?
Does anyone think "a burning bush that does not burn" sounds a lot like a hologram? It gives off light like a fire, but obviously, is not actually fire. If you were a primitive back then, how would you describe a hologram? Flame that does not burn, right?
>>373894
And when described as an acacia bush, it kind of looks like a hologram. You have light artifacts that project in a cone from the projector, or the stems radiating from the roots of the bush, and the leave are the hologram, you can not tell me there is not an uncanny resemblance.
And hail of fire? Doesn't that sound rather similar to firebombing? And when Moses used biochemical warfare, it's clear the bible says he dispersed some sort of powdery substance in the air to cause a plague. And doesn't a mushroom cloud resemble a pillar of fire? I think Moses' staff may have actually been a tentacle shaped robot, which explains how it appeared to turn into a snake.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osarseph
>>373864
Dubious at best. He's a legendary figure like King Arthur
>>373940
I agree, religion belongs in /x/
>>373864
Egyptian priest follower of the cult of Aten. Exiled in Palestine. Murdered in a forest.
t. Freud
how much truth is there to exodus?
>>374090
There is no evidence that Egyptians ever enslaved Israelites. In fact, there is overwhelming evidence that all the great structures of Egypt were skilled contractors that were even given an honorable burial
>>374249
Obviously every Moses movie depicts the Hebrews building the pyramids because otherwise people who watch them wouldn't know it took place in Egypt
I think the Jews may have been enslaved and there was some sort of rebellion and the passover originated from this. The over time the oral tradition added stuff like burning hail and parting the Nile.
tl;dr I'm a deist
>>374470
>I think the Jews may have been enslaved
[citation needed]
Literally the only source of this is the Bible, Egypt would definitely keep records of having 6 gajillion Israelite slaves. Yes Israelite, not "Jew."
>>374753
Wut
I thought they recorded the slaves favorably and gave slaves working on the pyramids proper burials because they didn't want the slaves haunting them in the afterlife. Considering how obsessed Pharaohs were in the afterlife. Would you really want an angry slave killing your pet cat that was buried with you in the afterlife?
>>373902
>This bush looks like a hologram maaaan
Get out with your ancient aliens nonsense, hippie
>>374775
There were no slaves. Those were contractors that got good food, medicine, and housing. And there was certainly no exodus
>>374753
>Egypt would definitely keep records of having 6 gajillion Israelite slaves.
Not if they ended up getting their shit wrecked by said slaves
>>374783
>wrecked their shit
They didn't get wrecked at all, if Bible is to be believed then a bunch of disasters hit Egypt and the Izzies promptly fucked off. They didn't actually fight.
>>374819
>"Let us go or our God will wreck you"
>"no"
>They get wrecked
I personally believe the story is too embarrassing to be made up. The Israelites (including Moses) are written as cowards that are desperately dependent on God. Why would you write a fictional account saying "God had to hold our hand, and we disobeyed pretty much every chance we had" rather than "yeah we wrecked their shit, they had us outnumbered and everything, plus we fucked pharaohs wife".
>>374838
I've actually heard the argument that Christianity and the Bible are too ridiculous to be made up.
>>374838
Israelites most likely never fucked off from Canaan. Canaan used to be an Egyptian colony where they gave fiefdoms to local chieftains and lost them during the bronze age collapse.
>>374853
>Too ridiculous to be made up
holy shit nigga, your actually claiming that on 4chan of all places, firs hand evidence of that ability to fabricate anything
>>374859
but how does the explain the origin of the Torah? I can understand an argument that its embellished, but I don't think ancient people were really stupid enough to base their entire society around writings that are 100% fabricated. Really picture how that would happen. Somebody just pops up saying "I have the written word of God, you all need to follow these for strenuous and pleasure denying laws for the rest of your lives, and also believe this embarrassing origin story of our people" and everybody just buys into it? Let's not be fooled into thinking the ancient people were this naive.
>>374783
So they went back and fabricated records to make it seem like none of these slaves ever existed? Sort of how nobody in the Exodus left behind any evidence of their presence?
>>374884
>So they went back and fabricated records to make it seem like none of these slaves ever existed?
This isn't far fetched when you realize people in this time period had a looooooot of time on their hands, and rulers tended to be obsessed with being written down in history as legends or even gods.
>>374838
>I personally believe the story is too embarrassing to be made up
The stories were codified during a period of occupation by a foreign power. The point of most of them is "we can't do anything, as soon as we try we fuck up, worship Yahweh exclusively." The idea was to convince the population that their current misfortune could be blamed on them failing to please their monotheistic god, and thus to resist further integration with their pagan overlords.
Basically "look what happens when you worship someone I don't tell you to worship, you don't want to bring even more disaster to all of us, do you?"
>>374881
Every ancient culture has some sort of divine pantheon, creation story and general religious mythology, are you arguing those are all based in facts?
The Jews didn't even have to flat out invent it, it's just that the oral tradition completely fucked that story up between the Egyptian control of Canaan and Babylonian exile when the Torah was written.
You know the Chinese whispers / telephone game, right? Now imagine something like that but spanning over 5 centuries.
>>374892
The Taliban has been destroying records for years, now.
>>374775
You don't use slaves for careful, delicate and/or crucial labor. Most slaves are used for back-breaking labor that requires little to no knowledge or skill, very similar to minimum wage laborers of modern times.
>>373864
In one of the few historical programs out there, there was an episode on the ''warrior side'' of Moses. It's called Ancient battles or Ancient wars or something. It tried to explain away a very realistic narrative around Moses. How ''the sea that opened and closed'' was him utilizing a certain marsh/lake that due to currents etc. would've dried up for a certain amount of time, and then filled up again. How he used torches for light deception, etc. It was pretty sweet.
>>374979
Do you even Roman slavery? No, I'm not talking about the ones in the pits or the mines.
>>374470
>>374775
There were no slaves.
Moses was an Egyptian priest and left after the cult of Aten was disbanded. He formed what would be something like Judaism but was murdered in the wildnerness and this accounts for Judaism's guilt and father complex.
>>375051
I said most slaves. There are lot of common misconceptions about the roles of slaves, and rarely did they perform in skilled crafts or labor, they weren't even considered fit to be oarsmen.
>>373864
According to wiki there is no evidence he existed, nor is there any evidence of an exodus or Hebrew slaves
>>373864
There are quite a few elements of the Moses story that are present in older Sumerian legends. Sargon of Akkad for example was born of humble origins and was found by a gardener in basket floating down a river. As Sargon grew up he quickly became the cup bearer to a nearby king and eventually just BTFO'd all of Mesopotamia creating the first Semitic Dynasty. So my thinking is that perhaps the Hebrew people were under the Egyptian Sphere of influence, maybe even Egyptian rule and longed for the time of Sargon when we wuz kings. So they developed or perhaps continued the belief of "Messiah", which Moses was supposed to be in some traditions. The reincarnation of the Sumerian Patriarch who was supposed to create a Semetic Empire. Same goes for Jesus senpai. Maybe Moses existed and piggie backed off of this folk legend as well as Egyptian prestige for credibility. I mean saying you BTFO'd the Egyptians is like saying you BTFO'd America, all dat prestige do.
Same goes for Superman senpai. He is the creation of our Jesus, of the new Jewish Sargon.
>>377018
Funny enough Sargon the self made man is sort of the basis if you think about it for Entrepreneur-phantasy
>>377018
>So my thinking is that perhaps the Hebrew people were under the Egyptian Sphere of influence, maybe even Egyptian rule and longed for the time of Sargon when we wuz kings
Makes sense to me
>>373939
Fascinating
>>375955
Why did they invent the slave story?
>>374884
It is true that the ancient Egyptians were known to lie in their historical records. Shit like claiming they won a battle when all other sources show that they lost it, etc.
I mean, Exodus still isn't real, but that's a tack that Biblical apologists could take.
>>378447
>I mean, Exodus still isn't real, but that's a tack that Biblical apologists could take.
Don't Jews still celebrate passover?
>>378447
> It is true that the ancient Egyptians were known to lie in their historical records.
Bullshit.
You're literally claiming it was an ancient anti-semitic conspiracy to deny the Exodus based on you wanting it to be that way.
>>373902
>a burning bush
if you dont accept this as Moses blatantly getting high and hearing voices, i dont know what to tell you
>nice meme
>>373940
>>374004
>>373947
>King Arthur
Was a real guy...
Romano-Briton resisting Saxon invasion.
>>379715
Exodus was clearly describing a Egyptian alien civil war, and alien Abe issued issued the Egyptian emancipation proclamation by hologram.
There might have been a historical Moses, who lead some migrants from Egypt to Judea, and maybe they became influential there. The walls of Jericho business, and the like, were fiction, or at least left no discernible trace.
>>374892
The Egyptians were ridiculously good at record keeping. Even when they tried something like damnatio memoriae they were unable to wipe out all traces.
>>373864
The Exodus was basically the Hebraic propaganda perspective on the Hyksos invasion.
>>380052
He's literally fiction you fat fuck
>>378447
>Shit like claiming they won a battle when all other sources show that they lost it, etc.
If you're referring to Khadesh, it was a stalemate
>>380108
this
>>373864
His name is Sargon
