soooo did the mongols successfully invade and occupy moscow?
are they the exception?
>>361876
Well, for starters there was no Russia back then....
>>361886
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27
>>361886
and no moscow either
>>361905
hate to break it to you but Russia is the Kievan Rus like America is the British empire
>>361973
rurik dynasty ruled the kievan rus both politically and culturally....
in fact Muscovy and later Russia was a de facto unified kievan rus
>>361993
it was also a defacto unified mongol empire
Invading from the East must be the secret
>>361876
The Polish did it in the early 17th century, occupied the Kremlin, but didn't hold it for long
>>361876
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Moscow_%281382%29
>>364058
Russia is always in decline.
>>364071
Except the one time where a georgian dictator rose up and put all those Gopniks and Bydlos into Gulags and make them work.
>>364092
*eliminated the intelligentsia and put gopniks and bydlos in charge
>>364107
*which led to it being a world superpower and had a vast lead in military and technologic aspects over its competitor for a period of time
>>364131
You don't actually believe that, do you? They were using vacuum tubes in their jets long after the US switched to transistors.
>>361876
Yes. They later let them rule their own country but they still weren't independent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarlig
And of course they had their asses kicked in 1610 by Poles but the Polish (Sweddish) king decided he didn't want it. If not for that the western slavs would've been united (under one flag?) and basically on more friendly terms right now.
>>361876
There was the Time of Troubles where a Swedish army occupied Moscow for a time so they could install their puppet Tsar on the throne.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_la_Gardie_Campaign
It's probably the only foreign army that has ever occupied Moscow during Russia's existence as a state.
>>364868
Napoleon occupied Moscow
>>364868
No and no.
>>362005
great meme friend, upvoted!
>>364895
but it was abandoned and burned beforehand
not hard to march into a ghosttown
>>364868
In was the Poles, not Swedes
>>364770
Why change if it works?
Things like pioneering the use of titanium or other space related stuff seem more important.
>>366729
To burn their own capital to ashes jesus christ.
>>361876
Pretty sure the French did as well
>>366729
>not hard to march into a ghosttown
Yeah, it's not like there was a battle for the city a few kms away just beforehand....
Retard
>cia operative
>U.N. recon uniform
Triggered
>>363513
Lmao there was a reason Japan kicked Russia's ass
>>368690
Japan got it's ass beat by the USSR tho
>>361876
That image though
>Siria
>>368786
Which battles?
>>368843
Khalkhin gol and the battle for Manchuria
Moscow? No.
Did they conquer Rus by using the winter to their advantage? You bet your sweet ass they did. With a scouting force at that.
To paraphrase Dan Carlin, Subutai conquering what he did was like playing in the major leagues then switching to Little League. Europe was that far below China at that point.
>>368821
More like Si_____ria
>>369048
>Europe was that far below China at that point.
Hungary had a cavalry that could match the Mongol force, although I am happy that was never truly necessary.
The limited fighting they did was on a small scale, and indecisive.
>>369306
People in the middle east and Europe were being overrun by *smaller* mongol forces m8s WHILE China was being conquered.
Of all their conquests, the one in China was a longer game. Those cunts held out the longest.
>>369336
>people in Europe were being overrun by Mongols
Not really, no. That never happened, because the great khan died, and all of those that came after him had the valley people habit of getting too fat and drunk to lead.
>>369344
Legnica and the harrowing of Hungary still happened before the Khan died.
So much so that King Bela IV of Hungary is just pretty much known as "the cunt who fixed up Mongol's mess."
>>364058
Kievan Rus refers to the whole of the Russian principalities and city states, which were loosely united
>>369348
No, it doesnt. Kievan Rus refers to the land Kiev controlled directly, not to the russian confederacy, which didnt really function as such anyways.
Russians killed each other including during mongol times.
>>369363
>Kievan Rus' (Old East Slavic Pѹ́cь,[citation needed] Pѹ́cьcкaѧ зeмлѧ,[citation needed] Greek Ῥωσία, Latin Rus(s)ia, Ruscia, Ruzzia, Rut(h)enia,[1][2] Old Norse Garðaríki) was a loose federation[3] of East Slavic tribes in Europe from the late 9th to the mid-13th century,[4] under the reign of the Rurik dynasty. The modern peoples of Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia all claim Kievan Rus' as their cultural ancestors
Dumb ass
>>369348
The Kievan Rus is a hegemony of the Kiev City State at best. Either way it wasn't powerful anymore long before the Mongols showed up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27#Fragmentation_and_decline
>>369374
>quoting wikipedia articles instead of the proper sources
Dumbass.
At no point did the confederacy unite all of those countries you mentioned at the same time, and at no point was it a proper hard federation under Kiev.
The closes to came to that was when the mongols came in force, and even then not everyone showed up.
Furthermore, Russia is descendant from Muscovy, not Kievan. You dont get to say Kievan Rus was Russia, and that Russia fought the Mongols in the 13th century. There was no Russia, no Russians, no nothing.
The idea of Russia is later, and more recently invented.
>>369395
>wikipedia isn't a proper source
What is this, 2005?
>>369405
Wikipedia is most certainly not a proper source. The proper sources are listed at the bottom of the article, and sometimes dont say what is written in the article itself.
You should try to follow up on them more often, you will be surprised to find articles saying YES and the quoted citation saying NO.
>>369306
>Hungary had a cavalry that could match the Mongol force
Most of the mongol casualties at Mohi happened because Batu Khans division tried to cross through the well defended bridge his cavalry, while the other 2 divisions led by subutai and kadan were away and were crossing the river for flanking maneuvers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvY2iN6uP2w
>>369375
And who exactly was powerfull and the time of the mongols?
>>369395
>My russians were never defeated, kievan rus was not russia itself!
Yeah whatever, all those ethnic russians (they were russians) in the kievan rus had to pay tribute or be slaughtered by the mongols, end of story.
>>364131
>*which led to it being a world superpower and had a vast lead in military and technologic aspects over its competitor for a period of time
Soviets were ahead of west in only in relatively few things and in most cases only for rather short time.
>>370164
>my russians!
Protip: I can disagree with your bullshit without having a /pol/ reason to do so.
>>370319
They were proto-russians, if the mongols did the same thing with them as with the tanguts then no russia would ever form, do you get it?
The area would be called "Greater Cumania" or "Greater Kazakhstan" instead.
>>370340
Novgorod, Kievan and Muscovy arent the same countries. Only one of them remains today, under the name Russia. Its not Kievan.
>hurrr they are the same people durrr kievan was first
Yeah, and Italians are Romans, and the French are Gauls. Fuck off, retard.
>>370359
>Italians are Romans,
Descendants of the romans
>French are Gauls
Again descendants
No russia would ever form if the the people stopped paying tribute do you get it? they would be genocided!
>>370372
>they would be genocided!!
No, the leader would get replaced with another, who would pay tribute. Are you twelve?
>>370377
Not always, see:
>The vassal emperor of the Tanguts (Western Xia) had earlier refused to take part in the Mongol war against the Khwarezmid Empire
>In 1226, immediately after returning from the west, Genghis Khan began a retaliatory attack on the Tanguts
>The Mongols then mercilessly pillaged Yinchuan, slaughtered the city's population, plundered the imperial tombs west of the city, and completed the effective annihilation of the Western Xia state
>>370390
This isnt genocide.
First, only one city was killed off, not the entire people.
Second, it was killed off because they didnt surrender when the siege started, as is the custom. If defenders put up a fight, you punish them. That way the next defender down the river surrenders quickly.
Basically you score 0/2 on the claim that the entire rus people would be killed if the king doesnt pay tax.
>>370377
>When Chinggis Khan died in 1227 he had not subjugated the Jurchens, and the task was left to his son and successor Ögödei Khan, who completened it in 1234.
>With this, all of northern China came under Mongol control. For a time Ögödei considered exterminating all the Chinese in northern China and converting it into grasslands for pastoral nomads, but his ethnic Khitan advisor, Yelü Chucai, talking him out of it, convincing him that Chinese peasants made agriculture possible, which in turn was responsible for the enormous wealth he was extracting from China.
>>370413
Are you citing a case where nobody was killed as proof that everybody would be killed?
>>370419
Yes, if they didn't want to pay tribute and started rebelling during the height of the mongol empire they would be killed off.
The mongols were not afraid of killing large ammounts of people in the middle east either.
>>370434
As shown by your examples of them never killing a nation because they forgot taxes.
>>370438
The xia were destroyed completely, the mongols also put the entire population of cities to the sword:
read this:
>In 1260, Hulagu sent envoys to Qutuz in Cairo, demanding his surrender:
From the King of Kings of the East and West, the Great Khan. To Qutuz the Mamluk, who fled to escape our swords. You should think of what happened to other countries and submit to us. You have heard how we have conquered a vast empire and have purified the earth of the disorders that tainted it. We have conquered vast areas, massacring all the people. You cannot escape from the terror of our armies. Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor armies stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations. Only those who beg our protection will be safe. Hasten your reply before the fire of war is kindled. Resist and you will suffer the most terrible catastrophes. We will shatter your mosques and reveal the weakness of your God and then will kill your children and your old men together. At present you are the only enemy against whom we have to march.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ain_Jalut
>>363581
>>370446
>The xia were destroyed completely
No, they werent. The western Xia were, and not killed off completely, but a town put to the sword.
Not because they forgot to pay taxes, too, but because they put up a fight when sieged.
Again, you are failing to make a relevant point. When somebody doesnt pay tribute you replace the ruler and get the next one to pay, you dont kill off the nation.
You are being stupid for the sake of "muh ancestors can beat up your ancestors" faggotry. If you want to post on /his/ you might want to start looking at facts impassionately and let them tell the story, rather than coming here with an idea and trying to cherry pick your way into sort of fitting it.
>>370463
>not killed off completely, but a town put to the sword.
You are wrong they annihilated many.
>Enraged by Western Xia's fierce resistance, Genghis engaged the countryside in annihilative warfare and ordered his generals to systematically destroy cities and garrisons as they went
>>364131
If only he hadn't killed millions of people who could have ended up being artists, scientists, engineers, etc. Where would the USSR have ended up then?
>>368418
They obviously evacuated the people beforehand. You make it sound like they burned down a ton of their own civilians.
