How seriously did people regard legends like the Kraken? Were they just tall tales that any educated (or experienced) person dismissed immediately or is this something that ship captains were truly concerned about? The guy who made this picture Pierre Denys de Montfort certainly seemed to think it was real, but then he might have just been trying to sell books or make a name for himself and from his Wikipedia article it seems that he was regarded as something of a crackpot. For the sake of reference, let's stick between 1300-1900.
>>355751
Well, like most historical myths, it was probably an exaggerated depiction of actual events of threats. There may have not been ship-sized octopi which would suck a whole crew into the sea, but there are still many large sea-faring creatures which could cause hazard to sailors. For regular boaters, anything from some octopus or shark could put you in a life-threatening situation. Out on the open ocean, you also had large whales, sharks, and countless other animals beneath the water that you couldn't see, yet who have the potential to become violent and attack your ship or any isolated individuals.
>>355751
The Kraken is more-or-less just an amalgamated spirit - it's a mish-mash of whales, cephalopods and volcanic activity.
>>355751
Probably like people think of aliens. Some believe it some dont.
>>355751
But you're not thinking from the perspective of people who couldn't explore the ocean like we can today. So yes more than likely they believed when they sailed and prayed to all the gods to let them deal with everything tossed their way on the oceans.
Consider that whales exist. When you're an uneducated sailor and you see a giant fishthing longer than your boat swimming around, you don't deny the possibility of other things getting huge either. Especially if you occasionally glimpse a giant squid or even a late surviving Megalodon or something.
Shit, considering water breaks stuff down, invertebrates leave few remains and the ocean is fucking large, for all we know there was a goliath, aggressive squid that sometimes messed with smaller ships.
>>355751
People used to travel the seas all the time. A lot of people seafaring will increase the chances they catch a glimpse of a giant squid that happened to come up near the surface. Hundreds of years of retelling some sea dog's tale of seeing a big squid becomes "this thing was the size of a ship"
>>356783
>a late surviving Megalodon or something.
Humans and Megalodons coexisted?
>>356836
Probably not, honestly. Or at least not while humans were doing anything of real note.
>>356822
Considering ships were mostly fairly small until the 17th century or so, a squid wouldn't have to be that large to 'be the size of a ship'. The mistake is to think in modern frames of reference
>>356836
Blue whales make Megalodons look like guppies, and they certainly were and are around.
...and I still can't convince my sister that Narwhals are real. Seriously, look at these things. You can't make this shit up!
>>356897
A lot of ships were still around 50-100 feet long, particularly if it's something like a galley. A squid that size is nothing to sneeze at.
Though considering the phrase "squid the size of a ship" in a contemporary context, yeah, that'd pretty much be a kaiju.
>>356918
That doesn't look comfortable at all, having a massive spear growing out of your face.
>>356918
What's her reason for disbelief? I would love to hear the arguments you guys have.
>>356945
Mostly this.
>>356949
Does she not have an encyclopedia...
>>355751
There are a lot of real sea monsters, though most are harmless or are rarely seen. And they're a lot less impressive than stories told, pic related.
Btw oarfish used to be bigger and more numerous.
Otherwise, I'm sure sailors saw a myriad of other kinds of seastuff. Before we started overfishing, that is. Plus, before the era of boat propellers, I'm sure a lot of cool stuff would come closer to the surface near them.
>>355751
You're a sailer, you and your boys saw a dead squid floating on the surface of the water on the way there. You have this tavern wench on your lap and you've had a bit to drink. Five minutes later, you've invented the Kraken.
>>356982
>>357002
>>355751
Ever heard a fisherman tell his stories?
The Carthaginians spread stories of monsters beyond the straits of gibraltar to further discourage competition from venturing beyond.
>>357033
Cato pls.
>>357036
MOREOVER I CONSIDER THAT CARTHAGE MUST BE DESTROYED.
>>357033
>>357036
>>357041
>Carthage
>>356937
It's a tooth technically
>>357571
And here I was thinking they all fashioned spears from stuff on the sea floor and just held them in their mouths.
>>355751
What is interesting is that up to the 19th century seing large sea-animals was far more frequent. Travelers wrote that sometimes the sounds of whales in the Pacific Ocean were so loud that sailor could not sleep. (Nature and Power, Radkau)
![BethanyHamilton_Warbrick[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lMMllbD.jpg "BethanyHamilton_Warbrick[1].jpg")
The ocean us fucking terrifying.
My dad was on aircraft carriers for 20 years. He tells this story about being on deck in the South Atlantic and a wave breaking over the carrier that was so big the carrier was in 'the tube' like a surfer.
>>358719
You don't even wanna hear the shit my dad has to say about his time in the submarine service
>>358725
Yes, I do.
Share terrifying sailor stories.
>>358725
Start spilling.
>>356949
is she qt? whats her number
>>356953
That's because of the water. It makes it look glossy and flat, like a 3D render.
>>358719
Well, did they ride the wave?
>>355751
A lot of anons in this thread is talking about, how giant squid might have gone to the surface and fucked around with a ship once in a while.
But isn't that literally impossible? at least for the species of giant squid we know. I remember reading a long time ago that the pressure level at the surface is deadly to them, thus every time a "live one" is caught it's dead within minutes.
>>358749
It broke over the superstructure and almost swamped the carrier. Bear in mind this is a 200m warship. Luckily my old man was tethered to the deck
>>358779
Bogus!
>>358761
If you think of an old bireme that would have been like 10 ft wide, even a dead squid could be wider than the ship and cause bricks to be shat if it got tangled with the prow. I mean, are you going to investigate if its alive?
>>358786
Sure it would be a gruesome sight. And just like they wash up on shores today, so did they back in the day. So yeah you're right dead or alive it would be enough to inspire legends.
But never mind. I've been looking at it for myself and I can't find anything about them not being able to handle the surface pressure. But it seems warm currents can bring them up to the surface and sorta leave them stranded there. Which leads to starvation and death. And a starving squid might be more than willing to attack a smaller vessel.
>>356918
don't they thrust their fronts while swimming close to each other?
>>355751
Reading Moby Dick (1851) it seems there is no general belief in sea-monsters. Melville has to go through some effort to instill the readers with fear of whales. Among the whalers there is some fear of whales though, but seemingly no belief in worse sea monsters.
>The dark ocean and swelling waters were nothing; the fears of being swallowed up by some dreadful tempest, or dashed upon hidden rocks, with all he other ordinary subjects of feaful contemplation, seemed scarcely entitled to a moment's thought; the dismal looking wreck, and the horrid aspect of revenge of the whale, wholly engrossed my reflections, until day again made its appearance.
>t. Owen Chase, chief mate of the Essex (sunk by the dashing of a sperm whale)
>>358831
That's not only after having circumvented the globe, but also post enlightenment.
Not that you'd have much of anyway to tell, but it'd be more interesting to know how seriously the ancients, especially those who tended to be lost forever if they ever lost the site of the shoreline, took the tales of such legendary beasts.
(Also whales are pretty damned scary. Especially when you're trying to kill them with non-explosive pointy sticks from the equivalent of a life raft.)
>>359018
Well, its not as reliable a source but also in Moby Dick:
>Now, in this history of his, Procopius mentions that, during the term of his prefecture at Constantinople, a great sea-monster was captured in the neighbouring Propontis, or Sea of Marmara, after having destroyed vessels at intervals in those waters for a period of more than fifty years
>...
>Of what precise species this sea-monster was, is not mentioned. But as he destroyed ships, as well as for other reasons, he must have been a whale; and I am strongly inclined to think a sperm whale.
Procopius lived in the 6th century. It seems likely that a whale would be percieved as a sea-monster, and make it easy to also believe in krakens and other such things.
Biblical quote about the 'Leviathan' (also from Moby Dick):
>In that day, the Lord with his sore, and great, and strong sword, shall punish Leviathan the piercing serpent, even Leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay te dragon that is in the sea.
So even then they had a concept of monsters in the seas.
>>359153
Have spermwhales ever lived in the Mediterranean sea or the black sea? If so, that's the first time I've heard of it.
>>359179
No, I'll give the rest of the quote:
>; and I am strongly inclined to think a sperm whale. And I will tell you why. For a long time I fancied that the sperm whale had been always unknown in the Mediterranean and the deep waters connecting with it. Even now I am certain that those seas are not, and perhaps never can be, in the present constitution of things, a place for his habitual gregarious resort. But further investigations have recently proved to me, that in modern times there have been isolated instances of the presence of the sperm whale in the Mediterranean. I am told, on good authority, that on the Barbary coast, a Commodore Davis of the British navy found the skeleton of a sperm whale. Now, as a vessel of war readily passes through the Dardanelles, hence a sperm whale could, by the same route, pass out of the Mediterranean into the Propontis. In the Propontis, as far as I can learn, none of that peculiar substance brit is to be found, the aliment of the right whale. BUt i have every reason to believe taht the food of the sperm whale - squid or cuttle-fish - lurks at the bottom of that sea, because large creatues, but by no means the largest of that sort, have been found at its surface. If then you properly put these statements together [that thing] must in all probability have been a sperm whale.
Keeping in mind Melville's sole object in this chapter is to paint a scary picture of sperm whales.
why is /his/ full of complete fucking retards
>hurr why giantz exist in dah legendz
>hurr greek myths are made up
>are krakenz reel?
and /pol/tards to top it off
>>356918
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3TtS1wkb7M
>>355751
There are giant squids. Like 15 meters long ones. Some fisherman probably caught one on his nets, showed it to others, and after a while it turned into a ship-devouring legendary creature called the Kraken.
>>360972
Oddly, came to this thread as it was the only one in the catalog that didn't smack of /pol/ bait at the time.
>We kings now!
(Seriously, is there any moderation at all?)
>>359018
Well, the best source I can think of is Pliny the Elder, so quotes of him:
"the seeds of all bodies fall down from the heavens, principally into the ocean, and being mixed together, we find that a variety of monstrous forms are in this way fre- quently produced."
But the most numerous and largest of all these animals are those found in the Indian seas; among which there are balænæ, four jugera in extent." (a jugerum was 240 feet long and 120 broad)
"The largest animals found in the Indian Sea are the pistrix and the balæna; while of the Gallic Ocean the physeter is the most bulky inhabitant, raising itself aloft like some vast column, and as it towers above the sails of ships, belching forth, as it were, a deluge of water. In the ocean of Gades there is a tree, with outspread branches so vast, that it is supposed that it is for that reason it has never yet entered the Straits."
>>359179
"Cuvier says, that even at the present day whales are occasionally found in the Mediterranean, and says that there is the head of one in the Museum of Natural History, that was thrown ashore at Martigues. He also observes, that in the year 1829, one had been cast upon the coasts of Languedoc. Ajasson suggests, that not improbably whales once frequented the Mediterranean in great numbers, but that as commerce increased, they gradually retreated to the open ocean."
>>357002
easily a sea dragon to many a mariner, especially with the crests the have
>>356993
this is how most of the stories probably started
