Tell me about Brittany, what kind of interesting happenings took place in there?
Was their culture stranger to French culture?
Is it still different?
>>330507
>Was their culture stranger to French culture?
yes
>Is it still different?
yes, but not so much. Like the difference between Wales and England
It was a duchy of France, though with varying levels of feudal independence throughout the Middle Ages. Its people spoke a Celtic language that was brought there by mass migration of Britons (mostly Welsh) during the Dark Ages, but that didn't really make it special since most of France had non-French regional languages.
Today it's just the same as the rest of France. 1% of the population knows how to speak Breton, but those are all young hipsters who learned it from scratch. Basically Parisians LARPing as ancient Celts.
>>330507
>what kind of interesting happenings took place in there
Be friend with the french, the english are upset ; be friend with the english, the french are upset. Be friend with none, both are upset.
>Was their culture stranger to French culture?
It was in the past when britons settled in the 4th and 5th century, and remained different until maybe the 16th century when France annexed it. Still today the breton culture exists, but is very weak.
t. breton
They used to be quite different but their culture is now severely endangered because the French are shit at protecting minority languages.
>>330540
>1% of the population knows how to speak Breton, but those are all young hipsters who learned it from scratch. Basically Parisians LARPing as ancient Celts.
No, there are like 250 000 people who speak it, and they aren't hipsters at all but old people or childrens in diwan schools.
Did the 20th century do much to disrupt and diminish Breton culture as it seemed to do to regional British culture?
>>330570
How often do you speak Breton, if you can?
>>330540
the bilingual schools are booming though. it may well make a come back
>>330584
nvm i looked it up and it isn't really
>>330578
I don't speak breton, where I live there are only between 2 and 5% of breton speakers ; basically the further west the more breton speakers there are (pic related)
>>330576
Yes, since the revolution basically ; but it wasn't just targeting breton culture, there was a politic against all the regional languages or dialects, to impose only french. It lasted until the 50s iirc
>>330608
>that map
>>330574
OK so 4%. Almost no old people who spoke Breton are left, now it's just children who learned it at bilingual schools because hipster parents.
>>330608
>since the revolution
That's a myth, nothing changed with the Revolution. Regional languages only disappeared with the Republican school system created by the Third Republic (late 19th century).
>>330608
who /gallo/ here?
never even heard of this language till i just saw it on wiki. apparently only 20,000 speakers left
>>330608
Based Bretons. Next Chouannerie when?
>>330637
Learning a dead language because you want to feel like a special snowflake is the most hipster thing you could possibly do. It's no coincidence that Brittany is the most hipsterish and antifa leftist region in France.
>>330653
>preservation of cultures is hipster
>muh pinko bogeyman
typical /his/ poster tbqh
>>330631
Diwan schools aren't bilingual, that's the point of it, it's only in breton.
>>330638
>That's a myth, nothing changed with the Revolution.
Sorry what I said wasn't really clear. What I meant was that after the revolution there's been a growing of the french language and a disappearance of the regional languages, with the napoleonic wars for example, everything in the army was in french (and it makes sense, don't get me wrong), same in WW1 where some people didn't speak any french or just a very bit, they learnt french there, and when they went back home they kept it, and naturally their childrens spoke it as well, and so on.
>>330642
I only just found out about it the same way. Every time I visit a lingustic article on Wiki I learn about some new language I had no idea existed. Last week it was Ladin.
>>330653
That's ridiculous, by that standard everybody should just learn American English and give up on nationalities altogether. It's just people trying to get in touch with their heritage and preserving their culture, which is something somebody against leftism and antifa fuckery should support wholeheartedly.
>>330642
It's a langue d'oïl language, so basically very similar to french, it hasn't much to do with breton.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubGjasm63Y0
If you're curious, Gallo is at 2:48 ; Breton at 14:05
>>330688
>45
looks like I have a lot of Wikipediaing to do.
>>330694
Haha, if you're interested into languages you're going to love the video then, well I hope you will.
>>330663
Creating a made up "culture" because "I'm not French I'm black/Muslim/Portuguese/homosex/otherkin/Breton I'm so special look at me!" is not "preserving cultures". It's just another example of French people with identity crisis looking for an identity that isn't French because being French is Nazi.
>>330676
>muh hurritage
You're as Breton as the average American is German, Irish or Italian.
>>330816
the government literally manufactured french people, there's nothing natural about it. i understand if you're arguing that there's no point relearning a culture that isn't relevant in modern societ, but this identity crisis you speak of may well have to do with the fact that being french is working or satisfying anymore, because nation state is arguably past its prime
>>330895
>is
isn't*
>>330816
But Breton is not a made up culture and it is not being "created". What the fuck are you going on about? It's just a minority culture, of which Europe has hundreds. Bretons never stopped being Breton just because they stopped learning their language for a while, that's not how ethnicity works.
Why are this kind of threads always full of people butthurt about other people speaking their own languages or identifying themselves as they wish?
>>330895
French people were "manufactured" some 800 years ago, and it's what everyone in France is in the real world.
>>330905
It died over a century ago. The people learning Breton now and waving around their flags everywhere they go have absolutely no connection to Celtic Breton culture, they're just regular French people.
It's like Americans with last names beginning in "Mac" wearing kilts, or American niggers celebrating kwanzaa or greeting each other with "hotep".
>>330946
>French people were "manufactured" some 800 years ago, and it's what everyone in France is in the real world.
This isn't true, the idea of 'Frenchness' was cultivated by the Third Republic.
Railways, integrated markets, media(books/pamphlets)/school reform and even shit like sport created a national identity.
Beforehand you cared more about your region than the state.
>>330946
No, its like people trying to learn a language that they like.
Stop bitching.
>>330905
>ethnicity
you'll have ethnic flemish, germans, spanish and italians in france who consider themselves french, language is very important
>>330946
>800 years ago
ayy lmao, the french government has programmed you well senpai. "french" (parisian) didn't even become acceptable till the 1500s as a vernacular. as people have pointed out in this thread, there did not exist a unified culture until after the french revolution. until then there were dozens of dialects, many mutually unintelligible, and separate languages like basque, occitan and breton.
>>330540
Some Bretons spell their names in the Anglo way, like Henry (as opposed to the French Henri) and so on. Not a big difference but anyway.
>>330962
>This isn't true, the idea of 'Frenchness' was cultivated by the Third Republic.
Oh my God, I had heard the "France didn't exist before the Revolution" bullshit, but this is a new low.
>>330967
No, just look at the posts ITT. It's French people who don't identify as French and hate France looking for alternate identities. Some learn Breton, others convert to Islam and go to Syria, it's really just a difference of degrees.
>>330653
>White people have to preserve their culture
>Except if they're from a small country, in which case they're hipster antifa faggots
Fuck off, frog
>>330974
The official position pushed by the French government is that France didn't exist before the French Revolution, exactly the same bullshit you're pushing.
There's more to a nation than language.
>>331000
Who are you quoting?
>>330989
The only guy who hates France here is you.
You are denying others Frenchness cause they happen to speak other language.
>>330989
>Oh my God, I had heard the "France didn't exist before the Revolution" bullshit, but this is a new low.
This is something that is getting taught in universities, in modules specialising in french history, by people who specialise in french history, so I would assume it is true.
>>330816
>Ancient ethnicity created by hundreds of years of culture and history is made up
>Nationality literally invented by revolutionary political interests is legit
French people are fake as fuck.
>>331003
>The official position pushed by the French government is that France didn't exist before the French Revolution
Wow you actually wrote that and thought it made sense.
>>330989
>No, just look at the posts ITT. It's French people who don't identify as French and hate France looking for alternate identities.
I like to think I'm an unaligned spectator.
I can't read that at all even if I were to try.
I'm only really seeing your assblasted sperging about a regional identity.
>>331024
>mfw people who don't know how history works post in a /his/ board
the idea of cultural identity did not exist before the french revolution, and it was not widely circulated in france until the third republic
>>330507
Interestingly one of the worst things that ever happened to Breton nationalism was the Axis losing WW2.
Breton nationalists collaborated with the Nazis on a grand scale and after the war got tried as collaborators. And so afterwards the French would accuse Breton separatists of being Nazis who want to kill six million Jews.
>>331017
>fuck France, I'm not French I'm Breton!
>stop denying their Frenchness you racist!
Yeah, and the people shooting up concert halls are "French" too.
>>331003
>There's more to a nation than language.
do tell. parlements? the state?
>>331042
Emmm...
Acording to you YES. As you are denying people right to identy with whatever you want.
About the first point...
You are the one claiming "fuck France". Not me, not others in this thread.
>>331010
French, English and Castilian nationalists say this shit all the time.
>>331042
>Yeah, and the people shooting up concert halls are "French" too.
they are though. you're society treats them like shit and so they shoot back. at least here in america we have our roodypoos under control by getting them to shoot at eachother to a point where their percentage of the population has held steady for a century
>>331046
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_is_a_Nation%3F
http://ucparis.fr/files/9313/6549/9943/What_is_a_Nation.pdf
This is someone writing the justify the existence of the French state in 1882, and he has to do it on the grounds of shared cultural heritage.
More than that, shared cultural heritage as accepted by people within the country. It isn't linguistic or ethnically driven.
>>331060
Or you could just left this thread.
But no, you prefer to be trolling.
You may even think that you are a master ruse.
>>331066
No nationalist uses the word "white".
>>331060
>evil
Nobody said that. Are you one of those total blubbering idiots who think that if something is a social construct it is necessarily bad?
Are you one of those complete pant-shitting retard who can't understand the difference between a factual statement about something being a construct and a normative statement?
God, I hope you're not, that would be really embarrassing to make a fool of yourself.
>>331072
>someone
>Ernest Renan
wew
>>331086
Except white nationalists.
And basically any European ethnonationalist.
>>331072
We have more of a "shared cultural heritage" with Navarra and the Piedmont than we do with Brittain, why are they not part of the French Nation then?
What a croak of horseshite.
France is a "social construct" in just the same way Brittany, Alsace or Burgundy are "social constructs". Stop being retarded lads, you're in a history board.
>>331099
You're correct in that it really started existing with absolutism, not the revolution.
>>331024
>hundreds of years of culture and history
whose culture and history? certainly not yours thats for sure. i think the nobles and kings would scoff at the fact that plebs like you are allowed to partake in their culture endeavors or read about them in your textbooks
>>331092
You've obviously been calling France "fake" and "manufactured" in order to discredit it you disingenuous fuck, as opposed to glorious Breton identity which is real and natural based on your hippie parents naming you Erwann.
>>331109
This is actually bullshit. There was a certain sense of parity between noblemen (particularly royalty) and even the lowest folk in France since the 16th c. or so. Not in the legal sense of course but at least in some cultural sense.
>>331102
Navarre is part of the French nation given that the king of France and king of Navarre used to be the same person.
>>331107
That's actually correct.
And I hope you're aware that absolutism dates back to the 12th century, not to the 17th as you were most likely taught in middle school.
>>331135
Not unless you disingenuously consider every form of centralization to be "absolutism".
>>331135
I'd say 16th, with Henry IV.
>>331135
>Absolutism dates back to the 12th century.
Are you by any chance still in middle-school? Because by even the late middle ages, let alone the 12th century, France was far from an absolute monarchy, or otherwise it wouldn't have been possible for the King of England to worm his way into massive amounts of French land.
>>331125
wrong. the famous french writers (rabelais? there names escape me...) who started writing in the vernacular in the early sixteenth century did so for a high brow audience. french society became more and more stratified from the 16th century onward so your wrong there too.
>>331143
Absolute power means that power is detached and unrestricted (ab-solvere) from the law, in other words above the law. This has been the case since Philip Augustus.
Why, what did you think "absolutism" meant? Wearing high heels and a wig and oppressing poor innocent Protestants?
>>331118
You were the one to make such claims, bro.
>>331145
>>331155
See >>331159
>the King of England to worm his way into massive amounts of French land
And when did that happen?
The Angevin lands in France were already owned by Henry as duke of Anjou and as husband to the duchess of Aquitaine, before he became king of England. And Philip Augustus took almost all of them.
>>331159
>nations are totally real and not made up recently
>this is the real "France" under Philippe II
Yeah totally the same thing we call France now.
>>331159
The way that works is that there's no internal counterbalance to the monarchs power.
This was not the case in any country with a large landed aristocracy, who themselves are a counterbalance to the king's power.
>>331127
Only a part. The smallest one.
>>331060
>France is an evil social construct that must be destroyed,
Yes, of course
>nationalism is bad
No, nationalism is good, just France is bad
>let's all abolish our borders and convert to Islam.
No, let's make even more borders and keep filthy Parisian niggers out of Brittany, Basqueland, Alsace, Occitania and all the other real countries destroyed by this fake gay shithole known as "France"
>>331186
>And when did that happen?
Hundred Years War?
>>331156
How come there was huge social ascension starting right there, with the Noblesse dr robe and sinecures and so on? Louis XIV was about fucking the aristocracy by using the state bureaucracy, which was the closest thing there was back then to a meritocracy. Centralization is a double-sided process, the king on the one hand and the commoners on the other.
OP here thanks for the replies guys, it is nice to see some people care about dem european minorities. It'd be a shame if their culture completely dissapeared.
>>331202
5 star post
>>331208
You're off by a few centuries m8.
>>330895
You're full of shit. Pls educate yourself before spouting your stupid opinions.
>>331208
Oh so by "worm his way into" you meant "conquer".
>>331210
those weren't peasants, they were bourgeois people. there's a lot of variety when nobles make up 1% and commoners of all different socioeconomic categories make up the other 99%. social ascension slowed greatly by the end of the 16th century and had come to a grinding halt by louis xiv's reign, even if he made some new nobles.
>>331210
Everything you just mentioned already existed in the 13th century.
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but in WW1 France had an issue because of the vas amounts of dialects/languages across the county and it even resulted on French soldiers firing on each other because they thought they were speaking German.
>>331221
I don't believe you.
I'm not convinced prior to the reformation that any king in Europe was totally immune from the aristocracy, or any other counterbalances to royal power.
>>331227
too butthurt to hear the truth wittle froggy?
>>331238
The origins of the Noblesse de robe is attributed to the 17th century if I remember correctly.
>>331221
>... is that map supposed to prove something?
Yes, read the words next to the picture.
>>331240
Lel no, the dialect situation is even worse in German.
>>331221
>From Philip Augustus to the Hundred Years War, the power of the French king was not rivaled by any aristocrats.
>what are parliaments
>what is Estates General
>what is La Fronde
>>331258
My point is that French people fired on French people because they couldn't understand each other.
"What the fuck are they saying?"
'IDK, can't understand them, must be German'
"Quick shoot them!"
The discovery of France by Graham Robb is an excellent book for anyone interested in how modern France was 'created'. It also goes into wonderful detail regarding the disparate communities that made up What we know now as France.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP60WDjhikc
a short documentary about a breton in turkey playing breton and local bagpipes.
can we /bagpipes/?
>>331246
No, just bored to see the same shit coming again and again.
Fun fact: I've never seen a regionalist coming with an actual argument to defend their theory that "le evil jacobins created le evil France and destroyed le precious minority cultures"
>>331245
Well read up on it or something.
The power of the counts of Toulouse had been broken in the albigensian crusade, that of the Angevins in the 1202-1214 war. The only powerful house that remained was that of Burgundy, because it wasn't technically inside France yet, but even their power was totally dwarfed by that of the House of France. The kings had absolute power over justice, minting, the first standing army in Europe, and the most modern and centralised state administration, while enjoying unparalleled prestige and loyalty from the people, and influence that reached all across Europe through cadet branches ruling several countries.
This situation was only paused during the Hundred Years War, and not because the power attributed to the crown was diminished, but because two houses were fighting over which one had the right to it.
>>331279
What you're describing might have occurred in Alsace, but probably nowhere else. Alsace was always an exception to the rule; it also didn't pass through the process of uniformization as the rest of France due to historical reasons.
>>331263
Three things that were increasingly irrelevant or didn't even happen during the time I just mentioned.
>>331292
I don't understand your periodiziation. First standing army in Europe is what, 14th century? This is long after the Hundred Year War.
>absolute power over justice
This is actually one of the traits of classical monarchy. The king as supreme judge. It's in the bible.
>>331296
The point is that if contestation existed in the 17th century (Fronde) which was undoubtedly centralized it could have existed in the 12th century which was objectively less so.
>>330816
Lmao this is what /pol/c.ucks ACTUALLY believe
>>331302
>14th century? This is long after the Hundred Year War
>It's in the bible.
Please leave and never come back to /his/ again.
>>331315
Oh you and your boogeymen, anon.
>>330825
So aware and interested in a real ancestry, while recognizing that it is diluted? Yeah sounds about right
>>331288
there's no need to defend against your caricature. just pick up a book instead of regurgitating what your history teacher told you as he buggered you after class
>>330816
Pays Réel, asshole.
>>331319
You should not use a bogeyman if you dont wanna see bogeyman used agaisnt you.
>>331307
>which was objectively less so
Based on what?
Anyway you were dating the beginning of absolutism at Henry IV. Meaning that even if something like the Fronde had happened in the 13th century (which it didn't), that would still not invalidate absolutism according to your own standard.
>>331317
Do you fail at basic reading comprehension? The point was clearly that judicial power is part and parcel of the power of monarchy since time immemorial. It's in the bible, the Edas and whatever other classical text, as well as historically existed throughout the middle ages.
>>330816
Being French isn't Nazi, being French is the exact opposite of Nazi.
The fact that French identity is so pathetic and diluted that to be French all you have to is be born there is what makes it so disgusting. There's nothing notable about it any more, it's impossible to not have absolute contempt for a culture that sacrificed any natural concept of nationhood to keep the state together.
And the worst part is every other state on the planet agreed that Jus Soli is a great idea.
>>331324
My teachers told me the french were all evil colonialists, that's all I remember from my history classes.
Obviously if my knoweledge on history came from the public school, I wouldn't even be on /his/ to talk about it.
PS: I ain't have anything regionalism, just against propaganda and ignorance
>>331338
Medieval Europe was not ancient Israel, justice was in the hands of the parliaments, and the Hundred Years War happened between the 14th and 15th centuries you historically illiterate retard.
>>331354
I ain't have anything against regionalism*
>>331347
And the reason you believe all that crap is because you were taught about Frenchness by a system that believes being French is Nazi.
>>331364
My problem isn't Frenchness supposedly being Nazi, it's that it isn't Nazi enough.
Here's an idea: political absolutism requires philosophical nominalism, because it needs to shape the legal corpus independently of objective jusnaturalism. This is why it couldn't exist before Pckham (14th c.). So even if the king of France enjoyed large centralized power back then it was under the guise of traditional legal doctrine, and as such cannot be rightly called absolutism
>>331369
>Pckham
Ockham ofcourse
>>330816
You little shits went full nazi on all minority languages and now you all pretend like it was good thing. Im Slovene, but I lived in France for many years and the French oppression of regional languages simply baffles me. Not even in Austria Hungary were there such strict laws against other languages, because "muh national unity" and "muh unitarian state". The shit France pulled of was arguably even worse than the Italian fascists in the 20's when they closed Slovene schools and imported Sicilians.
Insinuating that what the Breton are doing is creating an artificial culture and not simply trying to save their ancient heritage from an ACTUAL artificial "frenchness" pushed by Parisian liberal republican elites is preposterous.
>>330946
>implying the French language wasn't invented in 1880 by Ferry&Co
>>331393
>You little shits went full nazi
Wait a second we didn't do shit we're just sperg arguing on 4chan. You on the other hand are distorting reality since you're pretending there was an organized politic by the french government to destroy regional languages, a thing that was never proved by any concrete historical document.
>>331393
t.
zizek
>>331393
>Not even in Austria Hungary were there such strict laws
And that sure turned out great for Austria-Hungary.
>muh ancient heritage
>literally we wuz kingz
>>331099
*the idea of Frenchness
Before the Revolution what tied the country together was the King. It didn't matter if you identified as Breton, Tourrain, Gascon, Savoyard or Picard as long as you were a loyal subject. A push towards some overreaching identity already came up with Richelieu and Louis XIV, but it was the Republic that really forced it. First they divided historical regions into arbitrary departments, destroying any precedent identity. Then the 3rd Republic hammered every schoolboy with the idea that they were all French and that the only correct way to be a Frenchmen is to speak Parisian. This was even more amplified when radio and television became a thing.
Contrast this to ex. Germany where, except for the short period of the 3rd Reich, the country was always a Federalist one, with multiple economic and cultural capitals. This also allowed Germany to develop evenly why the French fell into the trap in unitarianism and only in the late 80's did the French realize that concentrating EVERYTHING on Paris was a n extremely bad idea, cue the Balance project.
>>331403
France and the French language were invented last Thursday by the Hollande government and we were all implanted with fake memories of it existing all our lives.
>>331357
>Medieval Europe
>parliaments
>>331302
Holy shit this post
Like, seriously m8, think before you type
>>331451
good now your learning moha- I mean pierre. remember you were parisians n shit
What is the state of other French minority cultures, like Savoyard, Picard, Occitain, Norman, etc. Are they all dwindling too?
>>331445
Imperial Germany was absolutely not "federalist", not even the Weimar republic was. The reason Germany was split up into a fuckload of micro-countries is because it FAILED where France SUCCEEDED. That's why Germany was always such an irrelevant non-country getting constantly gangraped by its neighbours. It's only once they CENTRALISED that they got their shit together (literally).
>the French realize that concentrating EVERYTHING on Paris was a n extremely bad idea
Well on the one hand, centralisation is more efficient, more democratic, makes the country more powerful, and avoids getting raped into oblivion by everyone else. But on the other hand it makes some whiny provincials feel like they aren't getting enough attention, so we should definitely destroy France so you can feel more special.
>>331463
Just leave.
>>331421
But there literally was an organized crackdown on dialects and regional languages. I lived in Geneva for some time and remember reading 2 books which both explained how the Parisians exterminated Savoyard patois in France, making Geneva/Vaud and Valais a relic of ancient times. In the 70's, if you wanted to hear legit Savoyard, you'd have to go to Switzerland, since they swiss never organized a witch hunt on their own langauge.
Also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL7B204D0430FF590A&v=M4qXfDfMLhY
>>331463
You're a bit of a moron, aren't you.
>>331476
yeah all declining as far as i know
>>330642
I'm from the Rennes region.
Gallo is basically the regional language of Brittany that is being screwed out of existence by Bretons nationalists, because it's a Langue D'oïl that is basically a variation of old French.
Seeing Breton/French bilingual signs in the historically Gallo speaking area upsets me like crazy. It's basically historical revisionism for the sake of a few nationalists.
The modern breton taught in Diwan schools is also basically an artificial construct made from various breton dialects and spoken with a parisian accent and intonation. It's like modern catalan.
>>331463
I supose that you are talking about an English type of Parlament, while they are talking about the French one which worked like a tribunal.
Also:
>The system of Cortes arose in the Middle Ages as part of feudalism. A "Corte" was an advisory council made up of the most powerful feudal lords closest to the king. The Cortes of León was the first parliamentary body in Western Europe.[2]
>>331476
More like they are already dead and vacuum-packed. Except for the food ofc.
But when it comes to language, traditional music and dances or things like that, it's as dead as it can be: some hobbyist do it for fun, and it will never be deader than it is now unless all the archives happen to burn or something.
>>331500
So why isn't France giving them protection? I read a few weeks ago that France rejected a bid to have Breton and a few other minority languages in France recognized as official languages of the EU. Why are they going out of their way to do this, do they really think France will cease to exist and will implode into a bunch of feudal ethnic microstates if people are allowed to get in touch with their roots?
>>331513
>disparate continent
stop shitposting.
>>331369
Nobody wants to address it?
>>331421
>a thing that was never proved by any concrete historical document.
Literally what?
>>331445
History is not black and white. Before the revolution, the notion of "frenchness" would vary greatly depending of the region, but it definitly was a thing.
The french language was the language used by the nobles and the bourgeoisie in the cities. Anne de Bretagne, the last independent duckess of Britanny, couldn't even speak Breton. When Montaigne (16th century) talks about some languedocians civilians fighting against the english, he calls them "the french".
Histpry is not black and white, identity is not a mololithic thing. Sure, with the french revolution, something changed with the notion of Nation state, but the revolutionaries didn't want to erase the regional languages, if not, then why would they have went though the assle of traducing the decisions of the parliament in all dialects of France?
If the revolutionaries were so fond of the idea of an "united republic", it's because they wanted to prevent the country from breaking up one day because of the various origins of its native people, no because they wanted to activelly destroy the minority cultures.
>>331501
that sounds frustrating sorry to hear that
>>331515
Yeah it's not like that's exactly what's happening in Spain and Britain or anything.
>>331483
German culture absolutely peaked in the l18th-early 19th century, though.
>>331522
Then carry on, pls
>>331526
>revolutionaries didn't want to erase the regional languages
>The new idea was expounded in the Report on the necessity and means to annihilate the patois and to universalise the use of the French language. Its author, Henri Grégoire, deplored that France, the most advanced country in the world with regard to politics, had not progressed beyond the Tower of Babel as far as languages were concerned, and that only three million of the 25 million inhabitants of France spoke a pure Parisian French as their native tongue. The lack of ability of the population to understand the language in which were the political debates and the administrative documents was then seen as antidemocratic.
hmmm...
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_revolts
>>331526
Vendée happened.
Everything bad about the Jacobins begins in the civil war.
>>331515
Because the establishment derived from liberal Parisian elites worked very hard these last 200 years to make Paris the only important city (Paris - 10 million habitants, second biggest city: Lyon - 0.5 million habitants) in France to benefit them. They concentrated all of the assets of power and institutions on Paris and created the infrastructure system in a way that all roads lead to Paris. Then they proceeded to organize the country in arbitrary and nonsensical departments and regions, further inhibiting any resistance against Parisian hegemony. They also forced all Frenchmen to learn the Parisian dialect of French, destroying all local languages and dialects.
Of course now that the EU demands that they let go off some power and finally stop staring at their own belly and look outwards, to the destroyed post industrial cities and farmlands drained of manpower, they are starting to get upset.
>>331515
>In 1992, after some questioned the unconstitutional segregation of minority languages in France, Art. II of the 1958 French Constitution was revised so that "the language of the Republic is French" (la langue de la République est le français). This was achieved only months before the Council of Europe passed the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages,[25] which Jacques Chirac ignored [26] despite Lionel Jospin's plea for the Constitutional Council to amend Art. II and include all vernacular languages spoken on French soil. Yet again, non-French languages in France were denied official recognition and deemed too dangerous for the unity of the country,[27] and Occitans, Basques, Corsicans, Catalans, Bretons, Alsatians, Nissarts, Savoyards and Flemings have still no explicit legal right to conduct public affairs in their regional languages within their home lands. The text was again refused[28] by majority deputies on January 18, 2008, after the Académie française voiced their absolute disapproval[29][30] of so-called regional languages, which recognition they perceive as "an attack on French national identity".[31]
>"an attack on French national identity".[31]
Seem so.
>>331583
Paris has been the most important city in France and synonymous with French identity for over a thousand years.
>hurr Parisian dialect
There actually was a Parisian dialect, and there still is a Parisian accent, which is not at all standard French.
>>331535
In Britain it didn't happen because they actually show their minority cultures at least a semblance of respect and allow language rights and regional governance. I'm sure if they hadn't allowed Scotland to have a referendum nationalism and separatism would be through the roof and be just as bad as Catalonia is now. As long as you give small cultures at least the illusion of choice as to whether they stay part of the greater union and allow some degree of autonomy that is enough to keep people happy.
>>331583
That is truly sad, unitarianism a shit.
>>331569
>However, the Revolutionaries lacked both time and money to implement a language policy.
How convenient. No proof except a random fonctionary at a time of near-totalitarianism in term of thinking.
The real reason they had to drpp is that it was way too much costly a.d difficult to realize.
>>331612
It obviously isn't, as evidenced by fucking half of Scots wanting independence, and more than half of Catalans. Those are countries on the verge of breaking apart.
Once you consider it's ok for people within your country to consider themselves of a foreign nation, that country ceases to exist.
>>331612
see you at the next scottish referendum ;^)
t.
last true scotsman
>>331612
>In Britain it didn't happen because they actually show their minority cultures at least a semblance of respect and allow language rights and regional governance. I'm sure if they hadn't allowed Scotland to have a referendum nationalism and separatism would be through the roof and be just as bad as Catalonia is now. As long as you give small cultures at least the illusion of choice as to whether they stay part of the greater union and allow some degree of autonomy that is enough to keep people happy.
The main variable here is the EU. Spain is hardcore into the Union, while Britain is very lukewarm about it. This gives minorities in Spain more incentives to break apart, since they'll remain in the Union and won't turn into second-rate irrelevant nations. Exact same thing in Belgium.
>>331619
the federalist revolts tho. girondins opposed centralization in paris explicitly and wanted a federalist movement. it may have been logical to centralize power in an emergency but the girondins might well have pulled it off
>>331669
It wasn't about regional languages since they were far from being endangered at that time
>>331569
>wanting everyone to be able to understand each other and participate equally in politics
Those evil Jacobins revolutionaries...
>>331688
yeah true
>>331708
i'm not saying its good or bad, but i do agree that whatever makes people able to understand each other better. in fact, i think the faster the whole world speaks english the better. that way we can have world governments and world labor revolts
>>331637
>Those are countries on the verge of breaking apart
So what?
ITT: butthurt provincials upset that they have been completely c ucked of their languages and culture by based Parisians
