What went wrong, /his/? It used to be one of the most powerful nations in Europe, and it suddenly disappeared in a period of 30 years.
>>31673
Liberum veto?
>>31673
democracy went wrong
>>31673
The Liberum Veto. That's seriously it, the frequent devastating invasions in the 17th century didn't help but the petty noblemen paralysing the government because muh ancestral rights was 100% responsible for it becoming a failed state unable to defend itself surrounded by 3 great powers, and once you're a failed state unable to defend yourself surrounded by 3 great powers the rest is inevitable.
>>31673
>one of the most powerful nations in Europe
not really tb'h
>>31673
>What went wrong
Growth of Russia, and Prussia into strong regional powers, continued supremacy of Austria, and the decline of Poland-Lithuania after decades of conflict with the Kingdom of Sweden bringing only Pyrrhic victories in the end
>>31734
Well, not the most powerful, but with its vast terrains and legendary cavalry it surely was somewhere around the lead.
>>31769
>le epic hussars
Polish cavalry was only notable because they were the only ones still using heavy cavalry that late, shot and pike was slower to take hold in eastern Europe than in the west so it was viable for longer. There was nothing special about them compared to earlier western European knights other than the knights had stopped existing.
>>31673
1. Ukrainians get pissed due to Polish assimilative policy and general szlachta fuckery.
2. Ukrainians and Poles have a series of wars which leave no clear winner but devastate both.
3. Russia uses that as an opportunity.
4. Swedes come.
5. Liberum veto and szlachta fuckery.
6. RIP.
>>31869
you realize hussars used guns as well right?
>>31673
The unfair fuckery that is Sweden and its Deluge
>>31673
No hereditary monarchy. But also the monarch couldn't do much. Kinda like in Great Britain but I assume it's much easier when you're on an island and far away from your enemies.
>>31869
>hussars
>heavy cavalry
lol moron
>>31673
Slavs can't maintain a country more well developed than their shitholes.
>>36002
Excuse me but it wasn't only Slavs.
Balts were in it too.
>>33061
You forgot about the t*rks
>>31734
Actually it was,it was also one of the best places to live if you were a commoner man.Just because it has"Polish in it's name' doesn't make it weak.
>>36066
Too much /pol/.
>>36028
turks were least evil to PLC, hell they actually were most honorable enemies
at least they fought on battlefields, instead of keking polacks into submission thanks to shitty muh democracy system
>>36066
>it was also one of the best places to live if you were a commoner man
Not if you were a peasant. Szlachta magnates were brutal as fuck.
>>36021
>Balts were in it too.
That's why Poland managed to grow this much. It doesn't change the fact that slavs fucked everything.
>>36117
Especially if you were a peasant. Kraut ones used to flee from their masters to settle in PLC.
>>36081
Too much time spending behind a book,actually.If anything.Most countries who're spreading the belief that Poland was an insignificant hell hole are the countries who've wronged her more than once in the last 200 years.It's a way of justifying your historical behavior and recent mistreatment of someone who is the topic of your discussion.
>>36117
Then why did peasants from Prussia,Russia and Saxony flee to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth if it was that bad?
>>36202
Well Poland was relevant during late middle ages and until 1600s and the time of its decline as we've already said in this thread. I don't see anything controversial about it.
>>36202
Then why did the whole Khmelnitsky Uprising (and plenty of other smaller ones) happen?
Although I'm not sure we're talking about the same time period here. 18th century, I'd agree with you. 16th and 17th, the period of magnates and folwarks, not at all.
>>36278
>Khmelnitsky Uprising
cause they wanted to pillage turks and couldnt because plc singed peace treaty with sultanate
khmelnitsky was just power hungry faggot who is romantized by hohols
>>36337
Cry some more.
>>36278
Khmelnitsky had a feud with another noble. It was personal and he was a drunk anyway.
Rebellions happened because lots of nobles were treating the Cossacks pretty badly. Ok, that may be oversimplification. The whole war was about priviledges. Some time later it seemed that instead of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth we may get Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian Commonwealth but the Cossack elders backed off at the last moment.
>>36373
excuse me?
>>36337
The Turks killed his son. He really was a faggot.
>>36278
>Then why did the whole Khmelnitsky Uprising (and plenty of other smaller ones) happen?
Cossacks wanted to be on par with the Szlachta. The fact, that king lowered Cossack registration didn't help either.
>>36337
He was okay until he sent his son to take Moldavian throne and started to think he could manage his own country. That pretty much ruined the chance of the Commonwealth of Three Nations.
>>36412
>The fact, that king lowered Cossack registration didn't help either
Neither did the fact that common peasant and even city (because many Ukrainian cities were controlled by the magnates) population got exploited to hell and back. In fact the contradiction between the goals of common people and lower cossacks (establishing a free state) and higher-ups (becoming a ruling class and making life for the common people slightly easier) was one of the reason for problems in the new Cossack state.
Utterly retarded foreign policy stemming from their horrendously bad method of selecting leaders.
And the Liberum Veto.
>>36527
both of these things started a shitty ride that would eventually crash
and it did
>>36527
>Liberum Veto
>the system in which everyone gathered had to agree on discussed reform
Huh, sounds pretty good in theory, doesn't it?
>>36626
>everyone
So, let's say I, important person in the government of the kingdom of Sweden bribe one of the magistrates to veto a reform. Now imagine not only me, but people from many other kingdoms do this too, would anything be done at all there?
>>36685
They were arriving in such a numbers that their original countries had to post guards in order to keep their peasants from running away.
Somalia-tier political system
I wonder if the founders of the US looked at the PLC as an example of what not to do
>>37235
Tadeusz Koscziusko fought as a colonel in the Revolutionary War so it may actually be true.
>>31673
The Deluge. The definition of a Pyrrhic victory.
"According to the estimates of Polish scholars I. Ihnatowicz, Z. Landau, A. Mączak and B. Zientara, the invasion by the Swedish army and its allies (Brandenburg-Prussia and Transilvania), resulted in the loss of 25% of the population in four core Polish provinces. Lesser Poland lost 23% of population, Mazovia 40% in villages and 70% in towns, Greater Poland 50% in villages and 60% in towns. Royal Prussia lost some 60% of its population."
"Almost all cities, towns, castles and churches in locations where Swedish troops were stationed were destroyed; and as prof. Rottermund says this can be seen even today, as in guides to many Polish towns and cities one will find a note that says "object destroyed during Swedish invasion". From the Royal Castle in Warsaw the Swedes stole app. 200 paintings, a number of carpets and Turkish tents, musical instruments, furniture, Chinese porcelain, weapons, books, manuscripts, marbles, even dresses of maids and door frames pulled from walls."
>bashing liberum veto
now it sounds silly, but at the time it was a must.
The government was too weak to enforce law in the voivodeships, so the only way to get shit done was to make laws everyone agreed with.
>>37098
>implying
>>36021
a small minority were Balts, most of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania spoke an East Slavic language
>>34055
yeah, elective monarchy is shit, it was pretty much a gateway for Russia to get involved in Polish politics
>>37314
this is true as well
>>37490
>now it sounds silly, but at the time it was a must.
>The government was too weak to enforce law in the voivodeships, so the only way to get shit done was to make laws everyone agreed with.
Well sure, but in the long term it ruined the whole country
>>36782
>would anything be done at all there?
And to think that people still try to paint Julius Caesar as a villian.
