![800px-FN_Model_1910_IMG_3065[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7JLHCKE.jpg "800px-FN_Model_1910_IMG_3065[1].jpg")
What gun had the biggest effect on world history?
Ak
The first one.
If you mean one gun in particular, then probably the one Gavrilo used to assassinate Whatshisface.
>>292711
This, or Samual Colt generally.
Cobray Lady's Home Companion
This one right here
>>292726
That's op's pic
>>292739
But wait, I don't have my ticket
Biggest effect by itself?
>Kalashnikov
Biggest effect on the future of small arms technology?
>Spencer/Henry repeaters
Biggest game-changer?
>Original hand cannon, followed by the Kalashnikov
It was literally that important.
>>292748
I figured, but I don't know guns
>>292685
>>292797
How was the Kalashnikov the biggest game changer? It was a concept that the Germans had already explored previously, which had been experimented with before that (the French had a select fire carbine in an intermediate cartridge before ww2, it just didn't catch on).
>>293001
Imagine being the German MG gunner during the first day of the Somme. All that PTSD...
>>292797
>AK
>DUH BIGGEST GAMECHANGURR
Fuck off History Channel.
>>292685
How about what gun designer had the most effect?
I'd vote for JM Browning.
>>293001
Thank you based Maxim.
>>293692
Well, one of his designs has been in use for over 70 years, so he must have done something right.
>>292685
The Fire Lance
>First every invented classified firearm
Every weapon afterwords was modeled after the tube and gun powder. First seen in 10th century China but made mainstream in 12th century. Without its base design you cannot design another weapon based around Firearms.
Fat-Man
>>292685
Does artillery count?
>>293692
His name is forgotten, but probably some Swedish or Neapolitan guy who developed paper cartridges
I'm not from /k/, but I think it is safe to say the StG 44 had a larger effect than the AK, simply due to the fact that it was the first real assault rifle, proving that an automatic rifle is viable in combat.
I'd say the Mauser C96 is highly influential as well, as it was the first semi-automatic pistol to be useful, and was a commercial success.
>>292685
"Whatever happens, we have got the Maxim gun, and they have not"
Perhaps the development of flintlocks leading to 18th century warfare rather than tercio formations
>>292685
I'd go even earlier than that. The invention of gunpowder and fireworks
>>293633
Beats being on the other end
>>294221
If you're going down that road, the Maschinenkarabiner 42 would be the correct choice.
The first rifle
>>292685
The Matchlock Musket.
Before then hangonnes and firelances were low cost peasant weapons, useful but of limited utility. But once things were upgraded to matchlocks they quickly became one of the most common weapons in any arsenal.
Maxim Gun.
Whatever happens
We have got
The Maxim Gun
And they have not
The one that started WW1.
It doesnt matter what model it was, or even who wielded it.
What matters is that the gun was there, and it shot the right guy to set off a war everyone was waiting for.
>>295595
that's OPs pic
>>293606
>French had a select fire carbine in an intermediate cartridge before ww2
Sauce?
>>293684
>used by basically every insurgency in the second half of the 20th century
>still used to this day
>original design still holds up, despite it being 68 years old
>spawned innumerable clones
>anything but a game changer
>>293684
>If history channel says it is wrong because they r dumb and wrong lol
Dismissing everything you see on tv is just as dumb as believing everything you stupid shit.
M1 Garand should be high up on the list.
I'm not well versed in /k/ stuff but supression fire was a big thing back then and issuing a semi-auto rifle as the standart rifleman gear gave US forces ample supression.
But again, I'm no weapons expert.
>>293001
Whatever happens we have got, the maxim gun and they have not
>>296962
Was heavily influenced by the RSC 17.
>>296962
>issuing a semi-auto rifle as the standart rifleman gear gave US forces ample supression.
ERRRRRR, sorry pal but what gives fire superiority in squad and platoon level fights is the Machinegun, not the rifles.
>>297501
>>296962
''The important lesson that the German military thinkers brought out of WWI was that the machine-gun, not the rifle, was the primary killing weapon on the battlefield. This is one reason that they continued to equip their riflemen with the outdated Mauser bolt-action or the short-ranged machine-pistol; even though the well-developed German arms industry was capable of providing its riflemen with a more sophisticated long-arm, it did not because the MG was the only weapon in the infantry squad that mattered. The primary mission of the rifleman was to provide protection for the MG and help bring up ammo for it if necessary. The MG was also usually operated by one of the best men in the unit since the Landser squad leaders had instructions to place one of their steadiest soldiers behind it.''
>>297523
These tactics went something like this: the squad leader advances with his whole unit until contact is made; the MG then opens up on the enemy to achieve "fire superiority". If a good hosing down with this beast isn't enough to either destroy or run off the opposition, the whole squad would leapfrog forward in short rushes until the desired effect was achieved. In the event that the MG fire itself wasn't enough to finish the job, the gun would be used in a suppression mode as the riflemen went in to clean up with hand-grenades and the bayonet.
The squad leader in all this was better able to control the actions of his unit since his training decreed that during combat he be in the center of the squad. If for some reason the squad leader was separated or incapacitated, the squad could still be counted on to continue functioning aggressively. German infantry training stressed independent thinking for all of its soldiers; thus effective and opportunistic action was within the capability of any German group no matter how small or who was left in charge. This was also one reason why German units could suffer enormous casualties and still perform.
>>297526
''On the other hand, a bunch of American Infantry brains sat down to think up a set of tactics for the U.S. footsloggers. With a basic train of thought rooted in the sharpshootin' tradition of the American rifleman, these men formulated methods based on the rifle. In a slight concession to the contemporary trend to increase squad firepower, the U.S. tacticians included a Browning Automatic Rifle (or BAR) in the squad's equipment.''
>>297533
''The ]U.S. 12-man squad itself was divided into 3 distinct parts - a 2-man scout team, a 4-man support team including the BAR, a 5-man assault team, and the squad leader. The system was supposed to work like this: the squad leader advances with the scout team to locate the enemy, then direct the fire of the support team on their positions before joining the assault team in order to lead them in to wipe them out. This seemingly simple system placed a lot of faith in the GI and that indisputably fabulous weapon, the M1 Garand.
Then the war came and these squad tactics were put to use. Here's what often happened to the squad in combat: the squad leader gets pinned down or hit with the scout team; the support team blasts away in the general direction of the origin of enemy fire without any real idea of where their positions really are; the leaderless assault team then makes the attack alone, that is if they didn't need the influence of their NCO to do it under fire in the first place. Worse yet, the whole plan could be upset by a few casualties.
The main problems here were twofold: an inability to achieve fire superiority and squad tactics that invited the loss of unit cohesion.
This first problem explains why the GIs were so dependent on the support of heavier weapons outside of the squad to build up a large enough base of fire to get that all-important "fire superiority". The combined fire of M1s and a BAR was seldom enough to sufficiently suppress or damage the enemy; unable to do this on their own, the squad was obliged to call in help from the outside.''
>>297526
Until he was killed by a Soviet sniper.
>>295818
Maybe he's talking about this?
Not select fire though, and I'm not sure the 8mm Lebel is an intermediate cartridge.
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/rsc-1917-frances-ww1-semiauto-rifle-at-ria/
>>297537
>I'm a kid, the post
>>293001
the 1st machine gun.
/thread
>>292685
Colt.
Ak is overrated and has small scope in terms of usage, colt is adaptable and reliable and is actually accurate and does its job.
Ak is just
>lets sends things in the general direction of things
Honestly, Arquebuis or Musket, they allowed the world to be conquered.
>>297717
There's not much appreciable difference in accuracy/ballistics/general performance between the AK and AR platforms. The "AK is inaccurate" meme comes from its primary users (third world nations, guerrillas) being shit marksmen.
>>297746
There is actually quite a lot of difference.
Sure it's blown out of preportion, but they are very; very different platforms.
That being said I have the biggest cumbucket of boner juice for the new Ak12
>>297805
Nothing will beat the classic looks of a wood and steel AK.
The maxim gun.
Rolled out pre world war one for savage control. Used heavily in ww1
>>297832
I hate PSU scopes doe.
>>297955
Thats not a PSU scope, its a 1PN34 night vision optic.
The best in Cold War Soviet technology.
>>295111
>checked
Mosin has been through some shit.
>>297997
It has the same reticle as the PSU.
>>296482
>used by basically every free country in the 20th century
>still used to this day
>original design still holds up, despite it being 104 years old
You can apply this to the M1911.
It is ak47 without a doubt. First gun is a meme answer because later guns where inevitable due to slant eyed fireworks. Stg44 is a meme answer because it was deployed too late. Mosin nagat is a meme answer because the soviets got carried in ww2.
>>298170
>Stg44 is a meme answer
The concept Kalashnikov rifle was heavily based on it, in theory of course. The actual design is wholly different.
>>298170
Wait, the napolianic, boshin, american civil and revolutionary wars were all fought using differant types of rifles right?
I guess if its single brand itd be ak but pseudo muskets took on a lot of conflicts
I don't know what the name for it would be, but I'd say the first widely deployed piece of gunpowder artillery. Infantry scale small arms are and always have been a secondary concern.
>>298055
can't really compare a .45 ACP handgun with a 7.62x39 rifle.
like apples and oranges.
>>292726
First guns didn't have any effect. They where super shitty arm cannons, with too many limitations to work better than a bunch of crossbows.
Here is the thing: You still want to make a smaller cannon, that does what a cannon does.
That resulted in lots of wacky stuff, and eventually self reloading guns.
>>293606
For no other reason than huge numbers being delivered to anyone with a grudge against anyone the Russians or Chinese might conceivably also have a grudge against.
>>292739
Put that away of you'll hurt somebody
>>295595
Not many people were actually waiting for the war, especially Germans were surprised by it. Many high ranking officers were on vacation when the war started.
If you're talking about a solitary gun, the one used to kill Archduke Ferdinand.
If not, then the Maxim gun.
>"The Almighty may have created Man, but over the last century, this pistol has more than helped keep them in line."
>>294221
>simply due to the fact that it was the first real assault rifle, proving that an automatic rifle is viable in combat.
If we were to go by the definition of an assault rifle (Capable of multiple fire modes, detachable magazine, intermediate cartridge) the Cei-Rigotti has the StG44 beat by more than 40 years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtsKZtiHcdw
Granted, it wasn't adopted by any military. The first gun to do so and fit the assault rifle criterion would be pic related.
>>303058
>That little handgrip that looks like its growing out of the rifle like a branch from a tree
Fucking cute.
>>295501
This gun basically conquered Africa and India
I'd also put up the Dreyse Needle Gun, it basically gave the Prussians the advantage to create the "small german solution" instead of Germany being united under Austrian rule
>>303058
The Fedorov is only an assault rifle if you consider 6.8mm Arisaka to be an intermediate cartridge.
Though as I recall it was originally meant to be used with an intermediate cartridge specially built for the gun, but they ultimately went with the Arisaka cartridge.
>Small arms
>Affecting world history
No war was ever been won because one side had better rifles than the other side.
The gun that had the biggest impact on history...in modern history it would be m1911 (for american). The luger (for europe).
Without the Musket, Europeans would have never taken over the Americas. It was the big game changer.
>>305740
This, artillery wins wars
>>292685
COLT
O
L
T
>>292685
Ehm the matchlock or flintlock.
My money is on the flintlock though.
>>293980
It had no effect outside Asia though.
>>295057
>low cost peasant weapons
Did you research that, read it or did you pull it out of your ass?
>matchlocks they quickly became one of the most common weapons in any arsenal.
+- 120-140 years.
The original Kebab remover.
>>307346
>>295111
Mosin Nagant? It kills me they're no longer imported to the US. Average going price in my area is now over $400
>>294397
I came here to post this
>>306757
Because we can just airstrike insurgents to submission, right?
>>292685
I mean these are just mobile guns right?
I feel that these are going to become more prevalent soon. Tanks are impervious to small arms and would crush revolutions and small units of men.
Ok so the real options here are:
Maxim gun (used by everybody, a massive paradigm shift in how to do combat)
Stg44 (first mass produced assault rifle, was fully modern by effectively every metric and perfected by later guns)
AK47 (absolutely huge production numbers, cheap, quite reliable, huge number of guns been used)
For me the Stg doesn't cut it, sure it is an interesting technology demo and a demo of an assault rifle in use but that is it. The AK is far more interesting because of the millions of guns produced.
The Maxim is more interesting though, so many countries adopted it and it had one massive effect on the battlefield.
In service 1886–1959
That is not some minor stat, it is old even when WW1 comes around from a technology perspective but still uniquely effective. Ian over at forgotten weapons has some great videos on the maxim gun and the infinite endurance.
Which gun is depicted on a flag, and is generally regarded as a symbol of insurgency and change?
>>308398
Ak's, bible's and Ho's
Is it an african country?
>>292739
Why do you NEED those?
>>308404
Mozambique
>>293684
Hm. Interesting point. Could you go further with that line of thinking? I want to make sure I understand why you disagree.
>>305740
Spanish invasion of Americas
Basically every colonial war ever
>>308439
Actually they used crossbows to much greater effect and the effect of weapons was greatly overshadowed by the few horses brought along.
>>307346
When did the Nips fight the Ottomans?
>>307741
Artillery wins battles, yes.
>>309163
Not without the infantry it doesn't. Artillery can mean the difference between victory or defeat but it isn't the main difference.
>>309305
To be honest, every part of a military is equally important. Anyone who says that this single element or weapon would win anything by itself is a dummy. No weapon operates in a vacuum.
ak-47 . ak-74. some gun used during the second world war were found in caves used by terrorists. a gun that is dirt cheap and will NEVER brake, is pretty much the spark for cheap bloodshed
>>309562
Some people really believe this.
>>309564
well, show me work that what im sayinfg is wrong.
whats your belief on the topic
>>292685
>>309564
Mostly Wehraboos, who think their precious STG is LITERALLY an AK (Despite having completely different operation mechanisms and lineages).
>>309562
>will NEVER brake
Assuming you meant break and not brake, you obviously never owned an AK.
>>309711
what are the weakest points?
and i speak of russian made. not the cheap contractor shit
>>309718
>a gun that is cheap to make is superior because it's cheap
>BUT NOT THE CHEAP SHIT
And AK is shit desu, vz. 58 all the way.
>>309718
>and i speak of russian made. not the cheap contractor shit
People really need to stop overhyping this "AK is unkillable" meme. It can certainly take a beating, but that applies to literally every single in service firearm at the moment.
>>306757
Tell that to the communist Vietnamese
>>292685
probably the one that convinced people to stop carrying sword and meele weapons to war
>>310562
The same commies who used field artillery to absolutely RAPE the French at Dien Bien Phu?
>>303058
>muh historic milestone
if we're going to do that, why not the Girandoni air rifle? Designed for the Holy Roman Empire in 1749. First repeating rifle ever developed. Saw 35 years of service.
>>297523
The problem with that is that they were wrong. The machine gun is a vital suppression tool but won't finish the job. The way to kill the enemy is to lay down superior fire so they can't manoeuvre, then close up to them with bomb and bayonet and stab them in the face
>>294221
the stg used too large of a bullet to be effective in combat, the ak was the first automatic assault rifle with a good enough sized bullet to actually be viable to mass produce thus it is literally the game changer
>>311208
>The way to kill the enemy is to lay down superior fire so they can't manoeuvre
Which is what the machineguns are for. Did you do your military service pal?
>>292685
Patton thought it was the M1 Garand
I'm inclined to agree
Thanks Canada
>>292685
>singular
One of the Ottoman canons that took down the wall
>type of gun
AK, without a doubt. Even if you look at history in the long run, the sheer volume of wars its been used in is overwhelming.
The first one to hold multiple boolets.
>>309646
As a military weapon it was shit compared to V1, while as a contribution to the space race it had a major influence.
>>305740
>No war was ever been won because one side had better rifles than the other side.
Peninsular war.
5th Btn 60th Rifles were recorded killing around 500 french officers and 8 generals (IIRC) in just over a month. I'd say that the British Riflemen in the Peninsular did a lot to help the coalition win.
>>312037
the Pedersen shoulda won the army trials desu
>>308408
Self defense,hunting, overthrowing state tyranny
>>312037
>Patton thought it was the M1 Garand
lel who cares
>>314198
Recognition of the 5/60th?
Holy fuck, I thought I was the only one here
>>292739
/fit/ please go
>>294428
you're a fucking tard
Sturmgewehrs were not prototypes or concept rifles, hundreds of thousands were produced in high quality (in wartime, too). They did stamped receivers properly. The Russians couldn't do it for nearly a decade after the war, which is why the first AKs all had milled receivers.
>>293001
Obviously this
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/i7KXYeb.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>314198
Based
>>292685
Is that Gavrilo Princip's pistol, OP?
No doubt the most important shot ever fired
>>314577
And i thought I was the only one here.
5/60th were based, I re-enact them.
(No idea how re-enactors are recieved on /his/, going by other boards, probably badly)
>>293692
God made a man, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
>>317077
Wait.
This is Joe.
Started the other Saturday.
>>318381
Well shieeeeeet
This is also Joe.
Small world
>>317895
>Colt made them equal.
Except for those not having the money to buy one.
All those weapon X made man equal is pure bullshit.
>>308408
major gains
>>318430
>All those weapon X made man equal is pure bullshit.
those are sayings, don't sperg out you autist
>>318625
Yes and Americans believe them to be the truth.
>>318647
>Yes and Americans believe them to be the truth.
555-oh-come-on-now.jpg
>>318396
Shit lad, small world indeed.
Still, shame more people don't know the 5/60th
>>318661
i know about the 5/60th now. You can rest in peace
Kel-Tec 9 mm PF-9
>>292685
neutron gun or rail gun
>>292685
Nukes
>>318953
what about the davy crocket launcher? That's artillery
>>292726
Franz Ferdinand, is the name you're looking for. To answer OP's question, I would argue the machine gun - as meme as that sounds.
>>318430
>Except for those not having the money to buy one.
Maybe they should get a job.
Its not like firearms are prohibitively expensive.
>>318430
>implying guns are expensive
You can get "a gun" for less than 100 bucks m8, not every gun owner owns 50k custom made gold plated revolvers.
>>321828
A few hundred is pretty expensive.
>>321848
you can get new hipoint 9mm for under $200.
>>321848
Unless you're a single mother supporting 3 kids or a NEET, you're able to afford a gun.
>>306460
Actually, spanish conquistadores were succesful thanks to their steel weapons, horses and hunting dogs.
For example Cortez only used a few arquebuses and cannons from the ships to scare the aztecs away when they came to close, and not as offensive weapons
Even tried to make a siege trabuchet but failed
>>321848
In literally what world.
I can see the excuse for not getting a gun if you live in Japan or something, where the laws are so prohibitive, and the society is so safe that there isn't any point to it aside from sports shooting or hunting.
Go home, AK, you're drunk.
I don't know about history but in terms of warfare I'd say artillery changed war forever and in a way it cannot be unchanged. Before artillery you could sit your ass in a trench or a fortified position the whole day and just wait until the enemy attacks. If artillery didn't exist nowadays then everyone would just sit their asses in small bunkers with infantry-operated MANPADs and ATGMs. Artillery can be heaven or hell, depending on the side of war you are. Having the power to destroy your enemies without even seeing them, before even engaging them in combat. But artillery is also waking up during the night with the sound of your camp being shellled by 1-oh-5 shells. Artillery made war boring. Think of the Battle of Berlin.
>>321924
Except for the tens of thousands of natives such as the tlaxcala and texcoco that despised the Aztecs Cortez hired on for his campaign
>>323667
For the price of a new video game you can get 325 rounds of .22LR.
For $225USD you can get 1000 rounds of 9mm, which is about 25 cents a round.
A bottle of Hoppes No.9 solvent is $15.
This is just from googling "gun and ammo supplies", brick and mortar prices may vary.
Stop making this about "le man is keeping us down", if you aren't a crack addicted homeless bum you can afford a gun.
>>324873
Things aren't black and white like you think they are. It's possible to be in between being able to afford an armory and being a hobo.
>>325039
>"affording an armory" is the same as having one cheap gun and a few boxes of cheap ammo
You're just making excuses left and right, any regular Joe is able to afford a gun.
