>It is true that according to critical theory, the good as such, the absolute positive cannot be represented. On the other hand, we - I mean Adorno and myself - have always explained that in the most diverse fields, that which is to be changed for the better in a particular field can be designated. Furthermore, I have often emphasized that doing the right thing would not only include change, but also the conservation of certain cultural moments, yes, that the true conservative has more in common with the true revolutionary than he does with the fascist, just as the true revolutionary has more in common with the true conservative than he does with the so-called communist of today. - Max Horkheimer, 1970
What is the legacy of the founders of critical theory? Is critical theory i the vein of Horkheimer and Adorno even possible today?
Hide/Report/Don't reply to all /pol/lack distractors.
>What is the legacy of the founders of critical theory?
Ultimate self-hatred and cultural marxism.
Reminder that Habermaß fucked off from the Frankfurt school because their fanatical hatred for western culture went too far even for him
>>288543
>their fanatical hatred for western culture
Now explain how that assertion is in any way compatible with what Horkheimer just told you.
Also, Habermas didn't so much fuck off, as he did take over and give the institute a new direction, mostly because he couldn't see where the original project could be going from there.
>>288543
>cultural marxism
In the /pol/ sense, is nothing but a buzzword used by Burgerlards. You can't have Marxism totally separated from the economic dimension, the ENTIRE premise of Marxism is that history is defined materially and class/social divisions are due to material inequality. The values you ascribe to "cultural Marxism" existed since the Enlightenment and were present in liberal democracy long before socialism was a thing.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_(Schlagwort)
>frankfurter schule
I don't understand why these people are significant. Their work seems to be nothing more than bombastic critical sociology from the Cold War era.
>>288644
Damn, Barry looks high as fuck on that pic.
>>288490
Critical theory laid the foundation for critical race theory which is currently wreaking havoc as the dominant mode of racial dialogue right now. It is based not in truth, but in power and sophistry. Not in statistics or meaningful discourse but in anecdotal "stories" and character assassination.
>>288654
This may very well be how they're remembered, but at least Benjamin and Adorno were philosophers rather than sociologists, which ight be the reason more people read them today than they read Horkheimer and Marcuse.
>>288668
>Critical theory laid the foundation for critical race theory
There doesn't seem to be a strong connection between the Frankfurt School and CRT (since it isn't really a thing in Europe), but I've never bothered to read any of the significant CRT authors, so enlighten me if you can.
>>288690
>Europe
American education doesn't know how to deal with European thought. The problem is the direction in which American idiots have taken the Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment projects. Without any understanding of the histories of the institutions that gave rise to concepts like human rights, liberty, equality, etc., it's easy to make a fool of yourself. See the "We Wuz Kingz" shit. I personally know black people studying to become doctors, lawyers, etc. who share these pictures on Facebook with alarming frequency. I don't even have an issue with these people believing they're the descendants of Egyptians, I have a problem with their misunderstanding the nature of social dynamics to the point that they claim to be descendants of Pharaohs. Everybody knows that the reason social activism exists is the oppressive nature of power structures; if these people want to disregard the fact that Egyptian society didn't consist primarily of royalty just for the sake of some postcolonial soirée, then I'm allowed to start claiming that my Italian, French, and German ancestry allows me to claim to be descended from Julius Caesar and Charlemagne. I cannot, in good conscience, do that, though. I also can't take anyone who does such a thing seriously.
>>288690
If I'm not wrong CRT is a mixture of black nationalism and CT.
CRT basically states that white supremacy is maintained over time via power structures like the law, economics, media, etc... In order to combat this and bring racial equality it prescribes an aggressive, anti-liberal approach. Programs CRT argues for include reparations, making "oppresive" speech illegal, and forceful removal of white positions in power so that an oppressed group can fill it in. They also argue for black separatism, revisionist history (for example, many CRT scholars view Brown v. the Board of Education as favoring white elites), and political organization.
The main way through which they hope to achieve this is via story telling and spinning a narrative. Due to this, CRT in practice is an appeal to emotion; if you disagree, there are a variety of ways they can shut you down. Whether that be calling you racist, privileged, or possessing internalized racism.
CRT is the backbone of the current PC moral crusade seen on American college campuses, and it is the model taught in most social sciences departments.
I tried to be as objective as possible in telling you the tenants of it. However, I am strongly opposed to it. I see CRT as an enemy of liberalism and that it's aggressive ideology could be a danger to free discourse and a democratic society if it becomes too widespread. CRT doesn't promote careful examination of what is a complex issue; it is dangerously reductionist, choosing instead to look at everything through a lens of "us vs them".
It has been the dominant form of racial activism for at least the last decade and so far I think the results speak for themselves. Race relations in America haven't been this bad in decades. Both sides are increasingly divided because CRT rhetoric leaves no room for moderates.
>>288883
Is that we wuz kings shit really that wide-spread? I thought it was just a meme, Jesus Christ...
Also, note how it basically buys into the racist notion that someone's value can be derived from looking at the achievements of their ancestors.
Everything worth while to be said regarding theory was already said during the period of Classical German Philosophy between 1781 and the 1840s. Philosophy reached its climax in the battle between the left, right, and Young Hegelians. Modern "critical theory" doesn't have anything new to say. Stirner already BTFO of critical theory.
>Stirner criticizes the Critics for having elevated 'Criticism', in the form of pure thought. to the quasi-religious status of a transcendent absolute, and to it he opposes the concrete, incommensurable reality of The Unique One, ceaselessly perishing and re-emerging from the 'creative nothingness' in which it is rootlessly rooted. From Bauer's Criticism he is determined to eradicate the last vestiges of idealistic substance, or of any kind of identification of being with thought, and to re-appropriate, in face of this last desperate attempt at his alienation, the self-centered and therefore indefeasible being of the private, solitary individual in all his self-justifying immanence. As in Hegel's idealism, so in Bauer's Criticism, it is ultimately a deified consciousness which waits to be revealed as the omnipresent and indefatigable enemy of the self. But The Unique One needs no gods, and his very existence is thus an affront to any candidate for Olympus, even indeed particularly-when his campaign, like Bauer's, is based on a critical exposure of all the other candidates. Stirner was prepared to side with Bauer in the joyful work of deposing the gods, but he would not hesitate to destroy him the moment he aspired to usurp their vacant throne.
>>288982
The way you tell it, it seems to be all black nationalism, and no critical theory.
>CRT is the backbone of the current PC moral crusade seen on American college campuses
I don't really know what's happening at american campuses, but I for one doubt that any of those crusader has ever read, let alone understood a word of Adorno.
Still, blaming social issues on academic theories about social issues is a super-shady move.
>>288995
Literally saved from Facebook.
>>289009
I agree the connection between CRT and strict CT is tenuous. The idea is to take CT's critical examination of US society and culture and apply it to race and oppression. Again, CT was a starting point 30 years ago. The two have diverged considerably since then.
Again, you're correct. I'll bet many of the student activists haven't heard of CRT. But their rhetoric, methods, and desired results are from it. For example, sociological theories of white privilege, microaggressions, and institutional racism, especially in the justice sector, are all from, or strongly connected to, CRT. If you observe racial discourse in America since 2010, you will easily see that is an application of CRT theories.
However, I'm no tinfoil hat man who thinks this is the result of some anti-white conspiracy. I think American society is being pulled apart by extremism in a variety of dimensions. Radical devotion to ideology and polarization is the name of the game in modern American society, be it from student protests or Christian evangelicals. It's the perfect atmosphere for disciplines like CRT to thrive.
>>288543
>fanatical hatred for western culture
You don't know anything at all about Adorno and Horkheimer if you think they hated western culture. Both worshiped classical education and art, were deep connoisseurs of European literature and classical music, and of course were masters of western philosophy. In fact, many of their ideas (such as the one expressed in the OP) reflects a concern for the conservation of western "traditional" culture (particularly its elite elements) from the dangers of mass society and capitalism.
Come to think of it, the /pol/acks who cry about "degeneracy" have a lot in common with the Frankfurt School (not their erudition and sophistication, alas).
BTW, Adorno detested the 60s student movement.
>>289010
Yeah I know that this exists, I just wasn't aware of how wide-spread it seems to be. After all, there's a fuckton of stupid shit of every coleur on facebook.
>>289065
>I'll bet many of the student activists haven't heard of CRT
Of that I'm not so sure, even I have stumbled on some stupid CRT papers like that one "What is White Privilege" thing. My, point, however, was that even the people who write such papers have little to no knowledge of what the Frankfurt School was about.
In fact, such developments are part of the reason for me asking about their legacy.
>>289205
I meant that the leaders who espouse the ideology that the students en masse rally behind know of it but the masses who follow them do not.
However, I did misread your post. We are in agreement then; CRT is pretty far removed from the Frankfurt School itself. It was formed from CT, but that was 30 years ago and has alot more DNA in it from Malcom X than it does Max Horkheimer.
>>289252
>and has alot more DNA in it from Malcom X than it does Max Horkheimer
Yeah, and in all likelyhood also people like Foucault, Fanon, Said etc, who seem to be read way more in American "critical theory", which apparently has become an umbrella term for leftism in academia.
>>289302
It's my personal estimation that the way Foucault is read and interpreted in Anglo-American institutions is galaxies away from what Foucault actually intended to write. I remember picking some secondary source about Foucault written by someone from Sussex and it was almost like I'm reading about a different person. The fact that he's mentioned alongside Fanon and those guys is very telling in this respect.
>>289114
He looks like a little faggot
>>289332
Foucault is a guy that is hard to pin down [lol buttsex], e.g. Said considered him a zionist, yet he expressed sympathy for Khomeini, not even mentioning his shifting stances on the relations between individual and society. Still, a fascinating guy.
>>289350
He was, in his twenties, when Kracauer made him his fuccboi. Adorno eventually dropped him, thanked him for curing him of his neurosis regarding women, and swam in pussy for the rest of his life.
>>289353
Sure. What I meant was that his ideas are constantly butchered in western academia and become basically a variation on the theme of new left/politics of identity. Anyway Foucault always struck me as a better critic than theoretician, as in his analyses of society and history are much better than his political prescriptions, which tend to verge on radicalness for its own sake and the "pox on both houses" tendency which is so dominant in French thought.
>>289372
What about the anecdote about him teaching a class in 1968, when a couple of female (supposedly naked of scantily clad) students broke in the classroom and started fondling him against his will? This is was arguably caused his fatal stroke a bit later.
(Might be complete BS of course)
>>289397
That really happened, there may be even pics of it. It's generally thought of as a protest against his focus on complicated theories and lack of support for the student movement, but a while ago some dude on /lit/ told me that at least some of those topless girls also had been short-lived sex partners of his.
>>289437
>guy on /lit/
ok m8
>>288490
Who's the fag in middle? I see him posted everywhere.
>>289455
Yeah I know, not exactly a good source, but he told an interesting story of having been a massive Adornoboo when all of that happened, and punching a friend in the face for suggesting a different motive than pleb-tier activism, but finding it more plausible over time.
It's a well-established fact that Adorno banged his female students in droves, so I found that an interesting theory.
>>289485
Adorno.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_W._Adorno
>>289493
>Yeah I know, not exactly a good source, but he told an interesting story of having been a massive Adornoboo when all of that happened, and punching a friend in the face for suggesting a different motive than pleb-tier activism, but finding it more plausible over time.
[authenticity intensifies]
>>289521
Hey, I'm not claiming it's a fact. Still, it's entirely plausible for contemporaries to have held such beliefs.
![tumblr_mro6fpooPT1rg89a6o1_500[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/I3eADqB.jpg "tumblr_mro6fpooPT1rg89a6o1_500[1].jpg")
>>289114
Holy shit
