>tfw everybody keeps shitposting about Zarathustra and his later works
>Nobody realizes the brilliance that was Birth of a Tragedy
my fucking god just go to /lit/
>>275204
The problem is that people don't even read his work to begin with. They just think "lol edgy nihilist", when Nietzsche fucking hated nihilism as a philosophy to itself. Nietzsche recognizes it, but his point is to not wallow in the vacuum of purpose, and rather fill it with your own meaning. Hence the "eternal return."
Quite the opposite of "ow that edge", Nietzsche's work can be boiled down to its very basic root of "go forth and be as awesome and happy as you can be".
How do I resolve the tension between Apollonian and Dionysian /his/?
>>275211
God's dead baby
>>275237
make love
>>275224
>go forth and be as awesome and happy as you can be
Literal Autism. If that was his message, I could have just watched some children shows on PBS instead
>>275308
Only if you didn't want someone to make an attempt at actually arguing their position.
>“it is only as an aesthetic phenomenon that existence and the world are eternally justified.”
>>275224
This. Most Nietzsche shitposters haven't even read him.
>>275308
>I don't read shit.
Motherfucker do you even eternal return? The entire point to the man's philosophy is the idea that if a demon came to you and told you that you would repeat this life forever, dying and reborn over and over again, would you break down in tears or tell the demon that was the best thing you've ever heard?
Nietzsche wants humanity to unshackle itself from dogmatic bullshit restraining the potential of the individual, and for the individual to seize every chance at joy in their life.
If the outright fabrications about Nietzsche were dispelled he would easily become 4chan's favorite philosopher. Funny that /pol/ is just starting to realize he is the original anti-egalitarian.
However this would require reading actual books.
Wait, is Zarathustra a good starting place?
I have very little knowledge of philosophy and philosophical literature but I've got thus spoke Zarathustra and a few others, what should I read before I can really get the book?
>>275904
There's a guide somewhere in /lit/'s sticky but I'm quite sure they'd recommend you to start with Beyond Good but still if you're starting in philosophy you really don't dive into Nietzsche right away, so the best course for you would be to start with the Greeks.
Zarathustra sucks, but Beyond Good & Evil and The Antichrist are masterworks of brilliance. They elucidate his philosophy in an artistic and relateable way and he leaves you with questions mroe than sermons. It's all you could ask for from a german philosopher.
That SAID, i think Stirner and Schopenhauer were more mature takes on the same basic material. People are idiots, nothing is permanent, society is meaningless in a worldly context, etc.
>>275904
Have you tried starting with the Greeks?
>>275397
Hnnnng
>>275904
I actually like Zarathustra but I find that most people who start Nietzsche with it usually end up with a crude understanding of his actual thought.
Start with the greeks.
>>275904
It's probably the single worst of ALL of his works to start with. Even most Nietzsche scholars don't understand most of it.
Start with The Birth of Tragedy, always.
>>275224
Not even this, but his work has a shitload of depth and nuance and is incredibly profound at times, but it requires you to engage with the text and really think about.
But nobody on 4chan does that. After the years I've been in this shithole, I've realized that the loudest shitposters never actually care and never read, think or engage.
Whatever is profound loves masks; what is most profound even hates image and parable. Might not nothing less than the opposite , be the proper disguise for the shame of a god? A questionable question: it would be odd if some mystic had not risked something to that effect in his mind. There are occurrences of such a delicate nature that one does well to cover them up with some rudeness to conceal them; there are actions of love and extravagant generosity after which nothing is more advisable than to take a stick and give any eyewitness a sound thrashing: that would muddle his memory Some know how to muddle and abuse their own memory in order to have their revenge at least against this only witness: shame is inventive.
It is not the worst things that cause the worst shame: there is not only guile behind a mask - there is so much graciousness in cunning. I could imagine that a human being who had to guard something precious and vulnerable might roll through life, rude and round as an old green wine cask with heavy hoops: the refinement of his shame would want it that way.
A man whose sense of shame has some profundity encounters his destinies and delicate decisions, too, on paths which few ever reach and of whose mere existence his closest intimates must not know: his mortal danger is concealed from their eyes, and so is his regained sureness of life. Such a concealed man who instinctively needs speech for silence and for burial in silence and who is inexhaustible in his evasion of communication, wants and sees to it that a mask of him roams in his place through the hearts and heads of his friends. And supposing he did not want it, he would still realize some day that in spite of that a mask of him is there - and that this is well. Every profound spirit needs a mask: even more, around every profound spirit a mask is growing continually, owing to the constantly false, namely shallow , interpretation of every word, every step, every sign of life he gives.
>>275904
Zarathustra is importaint as it is where Nietzsche most lays out the path to becoming an Ubermench. It should not be the first read because it assumes you already familiar with his way of thinking. It's also the only book that is also a story which might be frustrating.
Good places to start are: Beyond Good and Evil, Genealogy of Morality. Anti-Christ is the easiest to read so you might consider that also.
Good videos that cover basic concepts are these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4vPoFRH8d0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVoCKLyt2uw
^this one is especially cool
>>275913
>>275922
>>275925
YES YES I KNOW THE /lit/ MEMES
I have The Aeneid, The Republic by Plato, Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, The Trial by Kafka and some other mostly non philosophical classics.
I've read very little literature so I wanted to at least complete the /lit/ starter kit and some more after that before I got into the Greeks and then philosophy as a whole.
Can someone clarify Nietzsche's opinion on art? I don't get what he would consider bad or good art.
>>275308
It's intended for nihilists, not children. You can argue that nihilists are children and it would be difficult for me to argue otherwise.
But children shows don't work on nihilists.
Why do people get so fucking triggered when you suggest Nietzsche's link to Nazism isn't completely tenuous?
The dude had a huge hard on for mercy killing and having no pity. And Hitler satisfies many of the criteria for being der ubermench, even if he flatly fails a few he still was greater than most men of the time.
>>276040
http://www.lexido.com/EBOOK_TEXTS/TWILIGHT_OF_THE_IDOLS_.aspx?S=10
Read from subchapter 8 and onward.
As for Nietzsche's personal taste: Wagner's Operas, Greek Tragedies, and Faust.
>>276119
Nietzsche talks plenty of shit on Wagner later on.
>>276119
>Faust
Nigga got taste.
Wonder what he'd think of Goethe's
>>276117
Because Nazis are bad guys and associating anyone with them discredits them. No one would think twice if you associated Nietzsche with Greek or Roman conquers but the moment you mention Hitler you lose the argument. I think it has to do with the holocaust.
>>276117
bullshit.
Hitler's whole thing was to build the aryan race, Nietzsche gave zero fucks about genetic origins and said so multiple times. For Nietszche the slave morality of the jews was made actually WORSE by the Christians. Read the genealogy brah
>>275204
Why did he choose zarathrusta as his protagonist? Isnt he a rather obscure religious figure
>>276205
>Hitler's whole thing was to build the aryan race
Over half a decade later, people still believe that propaganda.
Hitler's whole thing was to build a big and powerful Germany, which would be in complete control in mainland Europe.
Its politics, not ideology. Whats next, you will claim he wrote Mein Kampf while in jail? He sent some notes, and another person wrote his book loosely based on them, making it as populist as possible.
Hitler was a politician, not a philosopher.
>>275861
What fabrications are you referring to?
Was it Nietzsche that said that a well-rounded person should seek to be neither a slave to others, nor a master of others?
>>276747
Estrangement
>>276747
I'm pretty sure that Nietzsche precisely lived when all the indo-european and indo-iranian thing was being discovered in academies and was probably pretty popular, as it's also a period were the european elites liked orientalism a lot.
Also Zoroaster is a powerful figure that served Nietzsche's objectives well, being the world's first (known) prophet.
Does Nietzsche's Zarathustra have anything to do with what real Zoroaster actually said? My small knowledge about both characters suggests the contrary, but I haven't read the book.
>>276921
fuck off you apologetic stormnigger
Why are you denying that Hitler's whole thing WASN'T about the aryan race?
>>278362
No, Zoroaster was essentially the first prophet to form a religion around the cosmic battle of good and evil. Nietzsche, seeing himself as the first 'immoralist', used Zoroaster as a sort of tool of irony
Ecce homo is by far his best "work"
>>278378
>he is denying hitler was about aryan race and philosophy, he is telling you he was about politics.
>you still call him stormnigger.
Some one is triggered.
Please go back to your safe-space.
>>276747
Nietzsche had a lot of respect for Zarathustra even though he disagreed with him. He thought the religion's philosopher was formed extremely intelligently and even quoted some of his wisdom once or twice. In Ecce Homo he directly answers the question of why he choose the name. Zarathustra was the first to come up with a philosopher that put morality as highest pursuit, thus it is correct that he should be the one to announce the philosophy that would be beyond good and evil.
Zarathustra in the story is a composite character of a lot of people Nietzsche admired. For instance the character's habit of staying away from crowds and spend many days in isolation is based on Heraclitus who's life style was that of a loner.
>>275204
what does this drawing mean? why does he have all those symbols tatted on him?
